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How do you make an MMORPG??

raitzuraitzu Member Posts: 83
Since this is the place for them, someone here should know how to make one right?

I would like to know where I can find information, or code to be able to start an mmorp.
What code are they normally written in? C++?  I know there are a few Java based games, any
advantages/disadvantages?

What do you use to view the code? I assume thats the engine? Where do you find those?

These Koreans are pumping out MMO's like no tomorrow and so far they are nothing to brag about.

I have been playing MMO's since I was very young starting with MUD's.  Not one game out there right now has what Im or most people are looking for.  WoW is popular because it is easy to play and socialize, but for many it is just to easy.

Dungeons and Dragons has an awesome fighting system (best by far), but lacks any depth. I "beat" the game within 2 months, now all there is to do is wait for a content update.  I also do not like the "instanced" zones, I like a persistant world.

Anyways I can make damn near the greatest mmorpg anyone has ever seen. With the current games, I see so many simple changes and additions that would push the games into immortal status, eg WoW.  But either the "Vision" is different or thier programmers are the laziest people on Earth or they just never fully play thier own games.

I will share my MMORPG ideas if anyone wants to think about it, and discuss it.


«1

Comments

  • GruntyGrunty Member EpicPosts: 8,657

    You throw money at it. Lots & lots of money.

    "I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone.  It's not.  The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone."  Robin Williams
  • Ryder22Ryder22 Member Posts: 132

    I think it is great someone has finally found the flaws in mmo's, and how they do not differ in any way! every mmo is the same, start weak, kill monsters (terrible click&wait attack system), get small amount of money, spend money on weapons that you will probably find in 30 mins or so, level up, add stats (always same catagories str,dex,vit,int)kill stronger monsters get more money buy next weapon.........etc.

    I only have one problom though :(........I can't play p2p games due to insufficient funds sooooo can it be free?

    "The definition of over doesn't have to be, "The End"

    image

  • raitzuraitzu Member Posts: 83
    Yes, I would want to make it free2play after buying the full game.  To generate revenue... I have my own ideas about that also.

    This is the kind of game I have in mind:

    Persistant 3D+Time (4D) world, in that everything is evolving. Players cause one time events that change the entire game. Players can learn to manipulate thier environments and actually create NEW items, e.g. they start with trees, rocks, water, animals, with just a small npc community.  As time goes on, events are triggered, and the npc  community grows. Characters are able to complete quests that make the NPC's "learn" and start making different items, having different quests and all. NPC's will be allowed to die with age, and therefore quests are only available while they are still alive, but they will pop out children that are completly different. Eventually allowing modernized abilities.

    Also everything is experiance based instead of level based. Experiance is used to buy skills, hit points, stats and the like... experiance will be gained in many different ways with sub exp bars for skills/crafting, fighting/magic, and more. Experiance will be gained with just time played, with each kill, with each skill used, with area explored, age, quests and more...

    Players will be able to play in first person/shooter style which allows precision, actually slashing at a specific spot and shooting and casting, or 3rd person with simpler click/slash and a randomized precision.

    Movement will be free AWSD/mouselook combo, something like DDO. Of course there will be zones, but the zones can effect eachother.

    With age and evolution players will start with bow and arrow, learn to make guns, than learn to make the future. Characters will have "children" that will inherit thier characters abilities and be able to gain more. Also there will be a way to stop yourself from dying eventually.

    Basically the goal is to make the NPC's smarter through one time quests, the faster the players can work together to finish the quests, the faster the world will evolve.

    Characters will be able to wear and use everything, no restrictions. There will be many unique items from one time mobs and quests, and many other items that drop from monsters who respawn.

    There will be no grinding unless you choose to, but a general goal of completing the next quest.
    Different races may even have thier own quests allowing competition or cooperation.

    This is the basics, I have much much more. What do you guys think?



  • katriellkatriell Member UncommonPosts: 977

    "and many other items that drop from monsters who respawn."

    Then what's the point of that crafting/invention system, other than a pastime?

    Other than that issue, I think the quest system is promising. Normally I despise quests because they're static and pointless, but your system sounds good.

    That said...

    Read this. (<- link)

    -----------
    image
    In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.

  • SnaKeySnaKey Member Posts: 3,386

    Well, if you want to make a game yourself in C++ or Java it's going to take you at very least a year just programming crap programs to learn it enough to make even the most basic 2D Single Player Game..... and a year is only if you're programming in ALL your free time. Then you'll never even have time to play MMOs.

    C++ is much better than Java. Java is very slow because it is compiled on the fly rather than compiled into an executable. So... Java is better for programs that can be used across OS's. The same program can be used on Windows, Unix, Linux, and Mac without having to recompile it on each individual OS like C++. And if you're looking for something like VB... that's Windows only it won't even run on Unix, Linux, or Mac.

    Basically...... you just need to learn to program very very well before you can even start to think about making a single player 2D game. Much less an MMO.

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  • AphexAphex Member Posts: 194

    Double post

  • AphexAphex Member Posts: 194


    Originally posted by raitzu

    Yes, I would want to make it free2play after buying the full game.  To generate revenue... I have my own ideas about that also.This is the kind of game I have in mind:Persistant 3D+Time (4D) world, in that everything is evolving. Players cause one time events that change the entire game. Players can learn to manipulate thier environments and actually create NEW items, e.g. they start with trees, rocks, water, animals, with just a small npc community.  As time goes on, events are triggered, and the npc  community grows. Characters are able to complete quests that make the NPC's "learn" and start making different items, having different quests and all. NPC's will be allowed to die with age, and therefore quests are only available while they are still alive, but they will pop out children that are completly different. Eventually allowing modernized abilities.Also everything is experiance based instead of level based. Experiance is used to buy skills, hit points, stats and the like... experiance will be gained in many different ways with sub exp bars for skills/crafting, fighting/magic, and more. Experiance will be gained with just time played, with each kill, with each skill used, with area explored, age, quests and more... Players will be able to play in first person/shooter style which allows precision, actually slashing at a specific spot and shooting and casting, or 3rd person with simpler click/slash and a randomized precision.Movement will be free AWSD/mouselook combo, something like DDO. Of course there will be zones, but the zones can effect eachother. With age and evolution players will start with bow and arrow, learn to make guns, than learn to make the future. Characters will have "children" that will inherit thier characters abilities and be able to gain more. Also there will be a way to stop yourself from dying eventually. Basically the goal is to make the NPC's smarter through one time quests, the faster the players can work together to finish the quests, the faster the world will evolve.Characters will be able to wear and use everything, no restrictions. There will be many unique items from one time mobs and quests, and many other items that drop from monsters who respawn.There will be no grinding unless you choose to, but a general goal of completing the next quest.Different races may even have thier own quests allowing competition or cooperation.This is the basics, I have much much more. What do you guys think?


    You don't even know what programming language would be the best but you do think that you can make this? You're a bit too ambitious in my opinion (and thats the understatement of the year). Really, this system will be insanely hard too build for an experienced team, let alone a single beginner. And even if you're able too finish the game there is no way too create enough content for it.

  • Jimbobjoe5Jimbobjoe5 Member Posts: 35
    Sounds good and all, good ideas and everything, just would be a monstrous program to write.  With the graphics designs and everything...  not sounding too fun.  Maybe you could pull a Dark and Light and make a prequel to your game, but in your game the whole objective is to write part of the program.  Your prequel would probably end up with about the same results as DnL, but hopefully the end game would turn out a little better =)

  • To creat an MMORPG all you need is some program to creat Sprites and also you need the knowledge of scripting etc... I am gonna creat one and hopefully earn alot of cash from doing this.i
  • raitzuraitzu Member Posts: 83
    All that needs to be built really is a combat system.

    Everything else is already made imo.

    I want this game to allow players to decide the style they want to play; twitch, action, 3rd person.

    What I really want is a combat system that makes you type certain things for attacks, and allows you to string them together. Such as, once you enter combat mode you have to type something like: "dragonpunch" to execute a special combo.

    An MMORPG that can be played like mortal combat if your a fighter, counter-strike if your an archer, and 3rd person if your a caster.

    Mark my words, the MMO to beat WoW will have this set up.

    As far as the quest system goes... you design the game in reverse.  Start with the end vision and work backwords.
    All MMO's currently start with nothing and add content.
    Say npc1 is interested in glass, he gives you a quest to retreive some for him. Once you complete the quest, npc1 can now make a lens with the glass. With more questing he can make a telescope, later when he dies and telescopes are common place in his sons world, the son=npc2. Now npc2 is looking to add something to the telescope, like a crossbow, and now you have a scope.

    Why make us characters patiently grind out crafting, when we could be adventuring and leave the grinding to the npc's.
    There would obviously be other named monster npc's that either respawn because you have not destroyed the vortex they come from, or have not advanced the quest.

    With this system, there is no catch-up to do. No repitition even for long time players, if you start big... you have plenty of time to add more. Especially with an in-game time frame. You could set the end of the game based on time and player participation. And all of the game changing events will be well deserved, like killing the dragon thats been holding the evil seal closed. Now the seal is open, and an entirely new plague enthralls the world.
    Im not a programmer, Im just the idea man. And the idea man has a vision. I will obviously hire coders, I just want to know what I need so I can know who to hire!

    Are all these games: EQ, DDO, WoW written in C++ or??

    A big change is coming to MMO's people like RV and thier team are trying, but from what I read, thier combat system is bad. DDO has a fun combat system, but archers are useless and wizards only cast two spells, but as far as blocking/tumbling and live interaction DDO is the only game Ive seen like that.

    @!


  • AnagethAnageth Member Posts: 2,217


    Originally posted by raitzu
    How do you make an MMORPG??

    Click the white box in my sig.

    No longer visiting MMORPG.com.

  • AuthkeyAuthkey Member Posts: 3


    Originally posted by raitzu
    Yes, I would want to make it free2play after buying the full game.  To generate revenue... I have my own ideas about that also.

    This is the kind of game I have in mind:

    Persistant 3D+Time (4D) world, in that everything is evolving. Players cause one time events that change the entire game. Players can learn to manipulate thier environments and actually create NEW items, e.g. they start with trees, rocks, water, animals, with just a small npc community.  As time goes on, events are triggered, and the npc  community grows. Characters are able to complete quests that make the NPC's "learn" and start making different items, having different quests and all. NPC's will be allowed to die with age, and therefore quests are only available while they are still alive, but they will pop out children that are completly different. Eventually allowing modernized abilities.

    Also everything is experiance based instead of level based. Experiance is used to buy skills, hit points, stats and the like... experiance will be gained in many different ways with sub exp bars for skills/crafting, fighting/magic, and more. Experiance will be gained with just time played, with each kill, with each skill used, with area explored, age, quests and more...

    Players will be able to play in first person/shooter style which allows precision, actually slashing at a specific spot and shooting and casting, or 3rd person with simpler click/slash and a randomized precision.

    Movement will be free AWSD/mouselook combo, something like DDO. Of course there will be zones, but the zones can effect eachother.

    With age and evolution players will start with bow and arrow, learn to make guns, than learn to make the future. Characters will have "children" that will inherit thier characters abilities and be able to gain more. Also there will be a way to stop yourself from dying eventually.

    Basically the goal is to make the NPC's smarter through one time quests, the faster the players can work together to finish the quests, the faster the world will evolve.

    Characters will be able to wear and use everything, no restrictions. There will be many unique items from one time mobs and quests, and many other items that drop from monsters who respawn.

    There will be no grinding unless you choose to, but a general goal of completing the next quest.
    Different races may even have thier own quests allowing competition or cooperation.

    This is the basics, I have much much more. What do you guys think?





    Whooooooooaaaa nelly, hold on there buddy, lol this is insanley great minded but...in reality you would have to have more then a great knowlage of C++.

    First off you would have to either create some military AI or keep updateing resources that you gather from players you talk to about things that happen, for example if an NCP dies you would have to be notified to program their kid(s).

    Second, you are starting out way to big, if you wana make an mmorpg start with playerworlds or something basic, i mean BASIC, not super high end Half-Life2 mmorpg that is like Oblivion, Bethesda software took over four years to make Elder Scrolls:4, what makes you think that you can alone, unfunnded, rag tag dreamer, can do that same thing? Im not trying to put you down or any thing you just need to start small to get big, not big to get bigger, as an RPGer you should know that

    Third, the whole age evolution thing is to real, you would need like..an over unlimited amount of time and resources to run this game..you would need a whole mmorpg TEAM like at least 100 people to keep it that way you want, i too wanted to make an mmorpg at one time, but im lazy and suck at programing lang. I can bearly type english, not because i dont know how to speak it, its my first language, I just dont know how to spell very well, lol, try to think small dude and mby one day you can get into some CEOs head and get them to make your game and then give me god like GM powers

    Lastly, Try not to let things like this block your dreams, if you need someone to host a server or something like that ask me, i might be able to help you on that, or makenig a website or something, i duno i could prob. help you in someway, tell me how things work out.
  • SnaKeySnaKey Member Posts: 3,386


    Originally posted by raitzu
    All that needs to be built really is a combat system.Everything else is already made imo.
    <snip>


    By this entire last post, it is safe to assume that you will never create a mmorpg in your life... not even in playerworlds or realm crafter.

    Why you ask?
    You're ideas are way grandois and if you attempt to learn a programming language, then you will just get frustrated and quit.
    If you use a program like playerworlds or realm crafter, you will never finish it because you will be like "this sucks" and give up.

    And your opinion means jack. Because, where are you going to get this kinda of stuff? It's not already built, it has yet to be built. Even if you had a team of 15 programmers with a Masters in Computer Science and they were making $150,000/yr each... I doubt you would have a finished game engine within a year. What you're talking about is several different games together... there is no possible way for you to take say a Unreal Engine and combine it with say the Neverwinter Nights engine (as if you could get your hands on it anyway) becaues they are programmed totally different and they are the game themselves. What you're talking about is in the core of the game, you can't take several engines and link them together.

    So, you might as well give up your ideas now.

    PS: What you're talking about is WoW*100 and WoW took 5yrs to build by one of the best video game programming companies in the world.. and not to mention close to a Million $ USD to create.

    Oh and not to mention, I highly doubt you're reading any replies that span over 2 lines long. So, I just wasted my time typing all that because you're not even going to read it anyway.::::20::

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  • rockin_uforockin_ufo Member UncommonPosts: 378

    Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light
    It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.
    'cause everyone thinks they're right,
    And nobody thinks that there just might
    Be more than one road to our final destination--

  • raitzuraitzu Member Posts: 83
    Thanks for the links and info...


    Obviously some of you are missing my point.

    Combining engines is the next phase to online gaming.

    Just because it doesnt exist yet, does not mean its impossible.


    I believe an entirely new language will be built around MMO developing.

    And World of Warcraft should have opened the eyes of huge corporations; this is obviously a huge market, and obviously in-game advertising will become popular soon.


    Imagine playing EQ and finding a pair of Nike's... or walking through a town and seeing a billboard for Lucky Charms cereal. etc.


    Most companies I see are going the wrong direction, eg they are trying to create in-game economies that allow for real-world money. But the highest Ebay sellers have always been from f2p games. Try Ebay searches for Kalonline, Knight Online, MUonline, Maple Story ect.. Sure people are selling thier WoW accounts in herds, but how many buyers do you see?


    And yes, I actually do read entire posts... sorry if you suffer from ADD. But thats no reason to bring me down.

  • SnaKeySnaKey Member Posts: 3,386


    Originally posted by raitzu

    Combining engines is the next phase to online gaming.
    No... It's just impossible. You would have to create something from scratch.
    I believe an entirely new language will be built around MMO developing.
    Do you know what a programming language is?Imagine playing EQ and finding a pair of Nike's... or walking through a town and seeing a billboard for Lucky Charms cereal. etc.
    Anarchy OnlineMost companies I see are going the wrong direction, eg they are trying to create in-game economies that allow for real-world money. But the highest Ebay sellers have always been from f2p games. Try Ebay searches for Kalonline, Knight Online, MUonline, Maple Story ect.. Sure people are selling thier WoW accounts in herds, but how many buyers do you see?
    Droves of them. There are actually Chinese Houses where 15-20 people live in the house farming gold 24/7 and selling it for big big bucks. And each individual dosen't make alot by American Standards, but they are pretty wealthy in Chinese standards... the person who owns the house and computers does on the other hand. I read a story about one house making over $1million USD per month selling WoW GoldAnd yes, I actually do read entire posts... sorry if you suffer from ADD. But thats no reason to bring me down.


    Sorry.. This whole post made me lol and I couldn't help but to reply to it.

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  • raitzuraitzu Member Posts: 83
    Bah, Im just not explaining it right. Or your not reading it right.

    I dont mean combine engines like cut and paste. I mean to start from scratch.


    Yes, all the Koreans and Chinese are getting filthy rich off fat lazy Americans... It's about time, after all they were the ones to help the Americans get so fat and lazy with the railroad and all...


    Anarchy Online has in-game advertising? Ill have to check that out.


    And what I mean by creating a language for MMO's... I dont know, Im just dreaming.

    But don't you think C++ is a little outdated? How did HTML code get created? (I obviously have some homework to do.)


    Im just looking at the box MMO's have worked themselves into, and I plan on breaking the seams of that box.
    The information age is here, things that used to take years to learn, now take only weeks.

    What do you mean impossible? I make the Impossible, Possible. Im Possible. You think that nerdy bastard who made EQ didnt start with a dream?
    You dont think another Bill Gates will come along?

    You must be waiting for Jesus to make it all better, Well to you I say good luck.
  • AnagethAnageth Member Posts: 2,217



    Originally posted by raitzu
    Bah, Im just not explaining it right. Or your not reading it right.
    I dont mean combine engines like cut and paste. I mean to start from scratch.

    You won't be able to create an engine from scratch with no programming experience.

    Yes, all the Koreans and Chinese are getting filthy rich off fat lazy Americans... It's about time, after all they were the ones to help the Americans get so fat and lazy with the railroad and all...

    Um, why are Americans lazy?

    Anarchy Online has in-game advertising? Ill have to check that out.

    And what I mean by creating a language for MMO's... I dont know, Im just dreaming.
    But don't you think C++ is a little outdated? How did HTML code get created? (I obviously have some homework to do.)

    Dated? Oh christ don't say anymore.

    Im just looking at the box MMO's have worked themselves into, and I plan on breaking the seams of that box.
    The information age is here, things that used to take years to learn, now take only weeks.

    What do you mean impossible? I make the Impossible, Possible. Im Possible. You think that nerdy bastard who made EQ didnt start with a dream?
    You dont think another Bill Gates will come along?

    You must be waiting for Jesus to make it all better, Well to you I say good luck.

    Just learn how to create a basic game then re-think your MMOG. Yes things can be impossible, people who say never say never tend to be your mother. Oh and that nerdy bastard who made EQ? He probably had a lot of programming experience.



    No longer visiting MMORPG.com.

  • raitzuraitzu Member Posts: 83
    Lol.


    Well now at least I know where to start, thanks for the usefull information.


    Brad.. Smedley ?? or whatever his name is from EQ revolutionized the gaming industry.
    And nothing has changed much since.


    You are trying to say that it is Impossible for a game to have multiple fighting interfaces?
    Or impossible to store age data?

    Impossible to write such a huge code?


    Im intrigued by the idea of RealmCrafter being open sourced, allowing everyone to contribute thier own code... would speed the process' up, but would allow for a billion clones with minimal changes.


    Im on my way to the bookstore after I get off work to buy some of those books you mentioned.
    They are having a nice discussion at Roma Victor about combat. Twitch (mouse skill) compared to hack-n-slash (character skill), and Roma Victor is trying to combine the two and come to some balance that would allow for lag.

    I have a very minimal understanding of programming VB and HTML is all I currently understand lol.
    So you are right, I wont be able to create an engine from scratch in a day or month or year... But that will not stop me from trying and learning everything I can in the process.

    There are hundreds of thousands of C++ programmers in the world, and tons of information about it.
    Anyways, I need to go back to my job, writing simple webpages ;P
  • AnagethAnageth Member Posts: 2,217


    Originally posted by raitzu
    But that will not stop me from trying and learning everything I can in the process.


    I said nothing of the sorts, I said you won't be able to create a video game engine from scratch. It's good that you intend to buy some books, at least your actually going in the right direction. Take it one step at a time.

    No longer visiting MMORPG.com.

  • AphexAphex Member Posts: 194


    Originally posted by raitzu

    Lol.


    Well now at least I know where to start, thanks for the usefull information.


    Brad.. Smedley ?? or whatever his name is from EQ revolutionized the gaming industry.
    And nothing has changed much since.


    You are trying to say that it is Impossible for a game to have multiple fighting interfaces?
    Or impossible to store age data?

    Impossible to write such a huge code?


    Im intrigued by the idea of RealmCrafter being open sourced, allowing everyone to contribute thier own code... would speed the process' up, but would allow for a billion clones with minimal changes.


    Im on my way to the bookstore after I get off work to buy some of those books you mentioned.
    They are having a nice discussion at Roma Victor about combat. Twitch (mouse skill) compared to hack-n-slash (character skill), and Roma Victor is trying to combine the two and come to some balance that would allow for lag.

    I have a very minimal understanding of programming VB and HTML is all I currently understand lol.
    So you are right, I wont be able to create an engine from scratch in a day or month or year... But that will not stop me from trying and learning everything I can in the process.

    There are hundreds of thousands of C++ programmers in the world, and tons of information about it.
    Anyways, I need to go back to my job, writing simple webpages ;P


    What you want to do is borderline impossible for a single person with no programming, artistic and gamedesign experience and no huge funds too pull it off. I don't even see any great, experienced teams of MMO developers pull it off since it will simply take too much time and they won't be able to get the funds for it.
    If you're interested in creating games, go buy the books and start practicing. But don't expect that you can make a living from it. Either do it as a hobby, or if you're really interested in working as a programmer go follow a decent study in that direction. Even then, don't expect that you'll easilly get a job in the game industry.

  • SnaKeySnaKey Member Posts: 3,386


    Originally posted by Aphex
    Either do it as a hobby, or if you're really interested in working as a programmer go follow a decent study in that direction. Even then, don't expect that you'll easilly get a job in the game industry.

    That's kinda what I'm doing. I'm a computer science major still an undergrad, but I wanna get a masters in it. But, I'm probably going to AT LEAST minor (probably double major) in Electrical Engineering so I can program circuit cards or something.

    Of course... what I REALLY wanna do is get into the gaming industry........ but so does every single other computer science major in the country. But, do I think I'll make it into the gaming industy not knowing anyone in any from of any part of the entire industry? Probably not. Am I gonna try? Fuck yeah.

    Hopefully, one day me and some friends will create something that will get our names out there like Blizzard, Rockstar, and all those did.

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  • wjrasmussenwjrasmussen Member Posts: 1,493


    Originally posted by raitzu
    With this system, there is no catch-up to do. No repitition even for long time players, if you start big... you have plenty of time to add more. Especially with an in-game time frame. You could set the end of the game based on time and player participation. And all of the game changing events will be well deserved, like killing the dragon thats been holding the evil seal closed. Now the seal is open, and an entirely new plague enthralls the world.


    In your dragon-seal-new.plague scenario, that is a pretty easy thing to see.  Now how many players are there in the game world vs the number of these unique events you have? How many encounters do you expect a given character to face in his career?   What is the math on the numbers you would expect to see?  I don't think you will be easily able to remove some type of repitition.

  • paulscottpaulscott Member Posts: 5,613

    are  you even capable to to one of the major tasks in a own it yourself company

    server programming

    client programming

    modler

    web devloper/designer

    I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.

  • SnaKeySnaKey Member Posts: 3,386


    Originally posted by paulscott
    web devloper/designer

    He said he makes "Simple Websites" but he also said he know "VB and HTML"... so I expect them to be very very simple.

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