Tradeskills, Economy, and Exploration

Plasuma!!!

I'm considering buying EQ2 this weekend, but I've been playing the trial and I haven't had the chance to learn more about what the game really is. Here's all the negative stuff i gathered from the two days of playing (on a side note: anything I didn't complain about here was perfectly understood and quite fun ^_^):

I noticed that tradeskills are completely useless for making money; you collect some resources (which you cannot sell to vendors) to combine with vendor-bought "fuel" goods required to make your item... but you can never sell your item to the vendor for more than what you bought the fuel items used in it's creation. I love crafting, but it seems that you cannot make items any better than the template allows (I liked SWG's crafting for that reason; but it has been horridly mutated, as we all know).

This makes me concerned with the economy. Certainly you have looted items which can be sold to players, but crafted items are only good if you get rare resources to make them with. Not only that, but once you get a customer who buys your items, you'll never see them again because they can repair their stuff for a small fee and keep it forever, even if it breaks.

That is quite similar to WoW in the respect that crafting is useless compared to PvP rewards and dungeon drops, but at least you could make some money off of it. Does EQ2's crafting system get more rewarding for solo-style money grinders later on? Or am I stuck with being an adventurer who only has a hobby of collecting worthless crap and carving it into something that merely takes up space?

I am not sure how the market or economy in EQ2 works, people tell me about brokers and such, but I'm too accustomed to the WoW, EVE, and SWG style; where you can sell things to vendors to make money, and have the option of opening a shop and selling to players for a bit more profit.

I'd also like to know if EQ2 is as big as I am told it is. SWG (RIP) was ridiculously large with huge landscapes full of desolace and nothing, while WoW had the feeling of a very large world being crammed mercilessly into a tiny snow-globe, giving that epic feeling of "Been there, done that". EVE is a space-based universe... enough said.

I subjectively compare the other games that I have played recently to EQ2 so I can see for myself if this is an experience worth having. If anyone else has had experience with those other games, and you could compare them with EQ2 to better my understanding of it, the feedback would be much obliged ^_^.

spydermr2

You can sell for a profit, though the profit varies by item.
You put a market-board up in your apartment/house, click on that.  Select "browse market place", and you'll see a screen with several slots.  You can put bags in those slots, and then put items into the bags which are then automatically posted at the "broker" (so to speak).  You select a price and leave it there -- there's no time duration or fee for how long it stays up there, it just remains until it sells. 

So, yes, there is a way to sell via the broker system -- anyone can see the market at their market-board, or at a broker specifically.  You can sell via your market-board, or you can go straight to a broker and do it (same interface). 

Items do sell for more than the creation cost.  Not every item, but what does sell for steadily-improving profit comes as you level up. 

Further, unlike in WoW, I've thoroughly enjoyed actually building equipment that, at least through level 20, is better than I can find through drops.  I've got a recently-restarted character, an armorer, who just dinged level 20 armorer... who's only a level 13 adventurer (Berserker).  Most of my equipment is hand-made by me and imbued -- enchanted, in EQ2-speak.  I've been selling the armor and bags I've built and been making a decent profit at it.  I had gathered about 2 gold from sales before level 12.  And I've got about 6 gold in equipment up, and judging from the returns so far I should see at least 2/3 of that in actual sales. 

With EQ2, it comes down to learning the ins-and-outs of their crafting system (specifically, the "crafting game" of using crafting skills during the creation process, how those skills work, etc.) and then making sure you hunt up the rare "advanced x" books (Buy 'em or grind creatures for the drops). 

No, you won't be selling items at level 7 to make huge profit.  It just takes patience, learning the system, watching the market to see what sells for what, and building accordingly. 

No matter how you look at it, harvesting doesn't cost anything but time.  And everything you build has only the component "fuel" cost (coal, etc) that you buy.  Usually, that's measured (at least in pre-level 20 stuff) in coppers.  If you sell it for 5s, you still profit.  And you'll be making tons of these items, so...

Obvious:  the best sellers I've had are bags -- quivers, to be specific.  Flipping pristine quivers at 20-30silver per, and it only costs like 12 copper in fuel and doesn't take any special materials.  Flip a dozen of those, and you have some real cash flowing.   

spydermr2

EQ2 is big, but it also has a very "meticulously controlled environment" feel.  AKA, you go here for level A-B, then here for Level C-D, etc.  Far too stratified for my tastes -- though the other aspects (much improved from the release) keep it high on my playing list. 

For my tastes, playing Freeport is a better choice than Queynos -- just feels more "real", "grittier", if you will.  It's far easier to level in Queynos, though -- not that it's hard in Freeport, just a comparitive statement.

Definitely investigate the classes, the way they're set up now makes each one have a very distinct "feel".  Personally, I love the Shadowknight, Berserker, Warden, and Fury...

Greslore

I've played WoW since release, and EVE for about 2 months.  I am currently playing EQ2.

Crafting in EQ2 is definitely different from WoW.  For me, I did just about every prof in WoW, and the only real useful one for me was making pots.  I made most of my gold by selling mats at the AH. 

In EQ2, the stuff you craft is very useful.  More over, it is desirable by other players.  The broker system I understand has had some recent changes done to it.  I've only been playing a short while, so my experience is a bit limited.  But - the stuff I craft (spells) I go into my house, throw it on the Broker, and in a day or two it is sold and I just made some coin.   I find crafting in EQ2 more involved than WoW, making it more fun and useful.  In WoW, I crafted out of boredom.  In EQ2, I craft because I really enjoy it. 

The economy... There have also been some changes to the way crafting works with LU24.  Crafting is a bit easier, in that you dont need subcomponents.  It appears that the economy is still adjusting with that.  Is crafting pointless because drops are better in EQ2?  Dunno the answer to that, but I can say it DOES NOT have the same pointless feel that something like tailoring in WoW did. 

Plasuma!!!

Thanks for the replies, I'll take that into consideration. So I guess EQ2 it is. My loathing for SOE will have to be put to rest for at least a month while I play ^_^.

Nihilanth

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Originally posted by Plasuma!!!

I'm considering buying EQ2 this weekend, but I've been playing the trial and I haven't had the chance to learn more about what the game really is. Here's all the negative stuff i gathered from the two days of playing (on a side note: anything I didn't complain about here was perfectly understood and quite fun ^_^):
I noticed that tradeskills are completely useless for making money; you collect some resources (which you cannot sell to vendors) to combine with vendor-bought "fuel" goods required to make your item... but you can never sell your item to the vendor for more than what you bought the fuel items used in it's creation. I love crafting, but it seems that you cannot make items any better than the template allows (I liked SWG's crafting for that reason; but it has been horridly mutated, as we all know).
This makes me concerned with the economy. Certainly you have looted items which can be sold to players, but crafted items are only good if you get rare resources to make them with. Not only that, but once you get a customer who buys your items, you'll never see them again because they can repair their stuff for a small fee and keep it forever, even if it breaks.
That is quite similar to WoW in the respect that crafting is useless compared to PvP rewards and dungeon drops, but at least you could make some money off of it. Does EQ2's crafting system get more rewarding for solo-style money grinders later on? Or am I stuck with being an adventurer who only has a hobby of collecting worthless crap and carving it into something that merely takes up space?
I am not sure how the market or economy in EQ2 works, people tell me about brokers and such, but I'm too accustomed to the WoW, EVE, and SWG style; where you can sell things to vendors to make money, and have the option of opening a shop and selling to players for a bit more profit.
I'd also like to know if EQ2 is as big as I am told it is. SWG (RIP) was ridiculously large with huge landscapes full of desolace and nothing, while WoW had the feeling of a very large world being crammed mercilessly into a tiny snow-globe, giving that epic feeling of "Been there, done that". EVE is a space-based universe... enough said.

I subjectively compare the other games that I have played recently to EQ2 so I can see for myself if this is an experience worth having. If anyone else has had experience with those other games, and you could compare them with EQ2 to better my understanding of it, the feedback would be much obliged ^_^.

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NOTE AFTER FINISHING:  It took me a long time to write this, with many breaks in between, so please excuse and small screw ups in grammer or sentence flow.

I've played EQ2 for two years.  I bought it Christmas 2004, so I know pretty much as well as anyone you'll meet how the economy in EQ2 works.  I also played World of Warcraft, but I never got a character past 36.

First, let me start by saying that you CAN make tremendous amounts of money crafting.  You just really have to work at it.  The crafting market is still readjusting to the recent tradeskill changes, but you can already see where it's headed.  I don't know when you started the trial, or if it was before the tradeskill revamp, but just in case, here's a breakdown of how the tradeskill system works:

Before the revamp, you'd take your raw materials and make components.  Sometimes you'd have to take those components and make more components.  With some classes, you'd even have to take those components and make them into MORE components before you could make the final item.  Needless to say, this was tedious and boring.  I have a 50 Armorer, all 50 levels of which were made before the tradeskill revamp, and let me tell you that it got to the point where you just didn't want to craft anymore.

This did two things to the crafting community.  One, it kept the number of high level crafters small, keeping prices up and making it (generally) worth while to make common drop items.  Two, because crafting was so tedious and boring, there was a huge jump in the number of macro crafters (not botters, there's a difference.  a slight one, but still a difference).  This started happening more and more as the game wen ton, and it slowly but surely brought prices back down.  It also managed to piss a lot of people off.

So because of this, SOE wisely decided to change the way tradeskills work.  Since the tradeskill revamp there are no longer sub components.  You take the raw materials, the fuel (by the way the reason for fuel is to get money out of the economy.  It's the same reason behind the broker listing fee in WoW), and make the item.  This has made it signifigantly easier to make items, and has led to a flood of common crafted items into the market, driving prices lower than they've ever been before.  It's not as easy to make money off of common crafted items, but you can still do it.  You just have to put them up on the broker.

The real money from crafting comes from taking orders.  If you put your LFW (Looking For Work) tag up by typing /lfw, people can easily search for you and see that you're ready and willing to make items.  Then they can send you a tell, ask you if you're willing and able to make a certain item for them, they send you the materials required to make it through in game mail or meeting up with them, and then you make it.  You charge whatever you feel necessary to cover the fuel cost and the time spent.  I know people who have made literally thousands of plat (cummulative) since the game came out doing that.  Orders also come pretty regularly, so it's not like you'll go days or weeks without getting orders.

Second, for the size of the world, EQ2 is actually one of the biggest MMOs out there in pure square footage of land.  However, it's broken up into zones that can sometimes take a while to load, so that can really break it up.  Also, it's a very big world but not all of it gets used sadly.  Especially the old world (the part that shipped with the original game), much of it is abandoned.  The newer zones though, the ones in the expansions, are pretty much packed.

Plasuma!!!

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I started playing the tutorial only a few days after is was released... or somewhere around then (started four days ago). I've made 6 characters and took them all to level 9 straight away... yeah, I don't have a life.

What can I say? Halo and BF2 are always the same, WoW isn't getting any more interesting, SWG shot itself, EVE online is something you put on the back-burner while you wait for skills, and I finished Oblivion in it's entirety one week after it's release.

I find the time to do this quite easily... my parents pay for college and the lessons are ridiculously easy.

Well that was completely off-topic... anyway, thanks for the reply ^_^.