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NC Soft Cut Backs

SigneSigne Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,524


I read THIS today which really surprised me!

I'm wondering what the heck is going on over there.  Recently, I cancelled my sub (although there is still time left until mid-July, I think) because I'm moving shortly and plan to be a bit to busy for it for some time.  I never go away for very long, however, because I'm somewhat addicted to character creation (it's a girly thing) and I love the combat... though the game itself lacks in a lot of other areas.  If this is true, it's a pretty nasty development!  (or should I say, "un-development"  )

(sorry, if someone posted this previously.  I couldn't find anything although my search-fu is always weak)




Comments

  • baffbaff Member Posts: 9,457

    Nice find.

    Predictable I suppose. I think those numbers may be exaggerated. Difficult to say. COH hasn't posted last quarters subs.

    Can't say it could of happened to a more deserving bunch. NCsoft support are a bunch of useless lazy twigs. If it's true, the company is well shot of them. I've sent a few emails to bosses at NCsoft recommending this course in my time. I'm almost tempted to send gloating messages to tech sup.

    No idea about Auto Assault, but it looked like a flop sales wise. COV sold well, but must have brought a large percentage of players back (as opposed to all new blood), who once they finish it, will all leave again. 100k subs seems like extreme weightloss to me, and under the 125k they said they wanted to keep the game open. I think if it was that bad we would have seen server merges by now.

    Essentially I feel it is normal for development companies to have a support period budgeted in after release. Once the money has been spent, normal service will be resumed. I don't see why this would be any different for MMO's. Further R&D budgeting would be dependendant on the commisioning of an expansion. I don't think support teams are ever very large for very long.

  • SigneSigne Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,524


    It wasn't hard to find.  I visit that site constantly.  hehe.  In the discussion that followed there was a link to an announcement on the official forum and it looks as if whoever posted that info in the dev only forum did have his numbers a bit wrong.

    "NCsoft’s Austin business has announced an immediate restructuring
    within its organization that included the difficult task of reducing
    members of its workforce. The online games industry is one that is
    continually changing with the scaling up and down of business based on
    product launches and product development schedules.

    Over
    the past two and a half years NCsoft has launched six major titles into
    the North American market and has grown with each title launch. As the
    company continues to grow its live products and prepares its next set
    of major online game releases for later in 2006 and 2007, the company
    sees a slowdown in its launch pattern and the need to streamline its
    business.

    For this reason, NCsoft has reduced its 300 person
    workforce in Austin by approximately 70 people to accommodate this
    change. This decision has no impact on the schedules of any projects
    currently in development and service to NCsoft’s current games will
    continue without interruption.
    "

    Source

    I do like this game although, quite honestly, it needs something to keep me interested for longer periods of time.





  • gadgetheadgadgethead Member Posts: 15

    Heres the link:

    http://www.gamespot.com/news/6153106.html

    Heres the thing, they say they didnt lay off any developers but theres a reason why. The developers, Cryptic, ArenaNet, NetDevil, etc are all separate companies. So NCSoft wouldnt do the layoffs, the individual companys would.

    I was suspicious about AA when I saw they only had 4 realms.

    Many of us have said the problem with COX is that while it was nice eye candy the game play is shallow.  I still laugh at the fact that superheroes have limited endurance. I could see certain origins have endurance, such as human athletic, but for them all to is ridiculous. I can think of no other MMOG that has such an artificial constraint. In WOW if you run out of mana you can still do some damage with a staff or wand; in FFXI, everyone has auto attack, also using melee or ranged weapon, etc.

    Theres a developer journal by Jack Emmerit where he expressly said they would not make two games because "they would both suck". Guess what? They made two games....

  • SigneSigne Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,524
    Err... the gamespot story got it from the original f13.net link I posted above, no?

    In any case, I agree that CoH has quite a few flaws.  The endurance issue doesn't bother me half as much as most of the others, however.  The game really does need more depth.  They need to lessen the post level 25 grind, too.  It smacks you in the face as soon as you hit that level. 


  • tutetute Member UncommonPosts: 299

    Originally posted by Signe

    Err... the gamespot story got it from the original f13.net link I posted above, no?In any case, I agree that CoH has quite a few flaws. The endurance issue doesn't bother me half as much as most of the others, however. The game really does need more depth. They need to lessen the post level 25 grind, too. It smacks you in the face as soon as you hit that level.

    ___________________________________________________________________________

    Agreed on the post 25 grind. I don't find the stories associated with the missions as engaging as others do, so for me its the combat and getting new powers. The new powers can take too long and as for the combat, you can pretty much experience all the game has to offer within a month's subscription.

  • SigneSigne Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,524


    Originally posted by tute


    ___________________________________________________________________________
    Agreed on the post 25 grind. I don't find the stories associated with the missions as engaging as others do, so for me its the combat and getting new powers. The new powers can take too long and as for the combat, you can pretty much experience all the game has to offer within a month's subscription.




     
    Exactly.  This is why I end up playing for a month and putting it aside for a few months, then I go back.  The sidekick feature makes it easy to do.  It's a good thing, too... I have a feeling a lot of people play the inconsistant  way I do for the reasons we've been discussing.  If it weren't for the sidekick feature, I have a feeling a lot more would quit for good.
  • Firebird1Firebird1 Member Posts: 222
    It's a good game COH/COV.  The problem is that other then fighting there is no real... Anything else to do.  Now if they were to introduce creafting/ apartments (COV took care of SG/VG Bases)/ or other long term stuff.  

  • SerlingSerling Member Posts: 662

    Gee...

    Maybe what the game needs is more nerfs to bring people back.

    /sarcasm

  • tutetute Member UncommonPosts: 299

    Originally posted by Serling

    Gee...

    Maybe what the game needs is more nerfs to bring people back.

    /sarcasm

    ___________________________________________________

    Yep, the current subscriptions sure seem to contradict all the fanbois predictions that the game was too easy and that's why people left. Well, its harder now. Where are they? The only way to beat the original 163K from launch would be if the current 180K was just one region. Its not, its spread across three. Maybe it was just because they were the most vocal. And I would sure love to find out who in the CoH forums suggested ED(since Statesman said that's where the idea originated). Good going fanbois, keep those ideas flowing to the Devs to kill this game even more. I wish they would listen to some GOOD ideas.

    Anyways, it will be interesting to see how NCSoft's cutbacks will affect the individual studios.

  • Firebird1Firebird1 Member Posts: 222
    It won't affect them directly, but it might be harder to find a GM when you need one, or get technical support from other then a e-mail bot.

  • baffbaff Member Posts: 9,457

    Might as well stick with the email bot. The humans only cut and paste answers from the email bot anyway.

  • SerlingSerling Member Posts: 662


    Might as well stick with the email bot. The humans only cut and paste answers from the email bot anyway.

    The customer service is terrible. When I would e-mail support after my sub had expired, they would direct me to post suggestions to the forum which - of course - was impossible unless I re-subscribed. Apparently, the customer service there doesn't even understand that once a sub expires you can't post to the boards anymore. (Which is why I came here. Thank you MMORPG.com!).

  • ChessackChessack Member Posts: 978


    Originally posted by Firebird1
    It won't affect them directly, but it might be harder to find a GM when you need one, or get technical support from other then a e-mail bot.



    The biggest problem I see is the massive cut-backs on their QA team.

    Given that I7 had some major QA issues (and still has most of them) when they put it live, I'd say that their QA team was already under-performing (if not under-staffed). This is going to make it worse.

    C
  • elitwebbelitwebb Member Posts: 342


    Originally posted by gadgethead

    Heres the link:
    http://www.gamespot.com/news/6153106.html
    Heres the thing, they say they didnt lay off any developers but theres a reason why. The developers, Cryptic, ArenaNet, NetDevil, etc are all separate companies. So NCSoft wouldnt do the layoffs, the individual companys would.
    I was suspicious about AA when I saw they only had 4 realms.
    Many of us have said the problem with COX is that while it was nice eye candy the game play is shallow.  I still laugh at the fact that superheroes have limited endurance. I could see certain origins have endurance, such as human athletic, but for them all to is ridiculous. I can think of no other MMOG that has such an artificial constraint. In WOW if you run out of mana you can still do some damage with a staff or wand; in FFXI, everyone has auto attack, also using melee or ranged weapon, etc.
    Theres a developer journal by Jack Emmerit where he expressly said they would not make two games because "they would both suck". Guess what? They made two games....



    Not only does AA only have 4 realms, they were almost always dead empty when I was playing, even on Friday and Saturday nights.  AA is a boring game, and I would be surprised if it makes a one year aniversary.
  • SerlingSerling Member Posts: 662


    Development team made a mistake and don’t know it. Fanboys told the team it is a great improvement to the game. Development team compounds the mistake by making more. Fanboys said keep up the good work. The end result is a dead game. Fanboys are the worst thing that can happen to a MMOG.

    "Fanboys" (a.k.a. "a$$-kissers", "brown-nosers", "corporate suck-ups", and "yes-men") are the worst thing that can happen to ANY company or organization. They're the kind of people that will tell someone that they're doing a great job flying the plane as it heads full-speed into the mountain.

    The CoH forums are full of them, and it's a shame that the devs only seem to take their cues from them.

  • SigneSigne Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,524
    Silly me.  Here I was thinking developers were intelligent, clever people!  The one's I've met were even mostly well educated!  What a fool I've been.  Obviously, from the description of them in this thread, they are a bunch of mindless sheep robots who only do what their fanboy masters tell them to.

    Oh dear!


  • ChessackChessack Member Posts: 978


    Originally posted by Signe
    Silly me.  Here I was thinking developers were intelligent, clever people!  The one's I've met were even mostly well educated!  What a fool I've been.  Obviously, from the description of them in this thread, they are a bunch of mindless sheep robots who only do what their fanboy masters tell them to.





    Sometimes when one is very intelligent, one becomes so convinced of one's own infallibility that one is blind to mistakes. And the fanboys increase that type of blindness by pretending that something which is a mistake, is not.

    C
  • SigneSigne Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,524
    Seems to me that if an overwhelming number of the players of a game, or any product, are favourably impressed and enjoy it, then the consensus would be that the game or changes to it are pleasing to the majority.  If the opposite is true, I can't imagine that a developer or the company he works for, the publishers and stockholders, if any, would say, "ignore the majority.  Only listen to those who say nice things about our game," and set themselves on a downward spiral towards bankruptcy. 

    The fact that there are people who dislike changes made to a game, and feel those changes are a mistake, doesn't make them right... or wrong, either.  We may all know what direction we want the game we play to take and what our game should aspire to be, but that doesn't mean our opinion is the majority and companies will hold majority opinions in more esteem than others.  I guess we just have to keep being verbal on those official boards and keep trying to sway the opinions of others to our side.  I know I have had my opinion change because of a good argument.  Perhaps that'll result in more satisfactory outcomes.  However, if our wonderful ideas are never the majority opinion, we'll probably have to just quit or suffer.  I don't like to suffer.  

  • tutetute Member UncommonPosts: 299


    Originally posted by Signe
    Seems to me that if an overwhelming number of the players of a game, or any product, are favourably impressed and enjoy it, then the consensus would be that the game or changes to it are pleasing to the majority.  If the opposite is true, I can't imagine that a developer or the company he works for, the publishers and stockholders, if any, would say, "ignore the majority.  Only listen to those who say nice things about our game," and set themselves on a downward spiral towards bankruptcy. 

    The fact that there are people who dislike changes made to a game, and feel those changes are a mistake, doesn't make them right... or wrong, either.  We may all know what direction we want the game we play to take and what our game should aspire to be, but that doesn't mean our opinion is the majority and companies will hold majority opinions in more esteem than others.  I guess we just have to keep being verbal on those official boards and keep trying to sway the opinions of others to our side.  I know I have had my opinion change because of a good argument.  Perhaps that'll result in more satisfactory outcomes.  However, if our wonderful ideas are never the majority opinion, we'll probably have to just quit or suffer.  I don't like to suffer.  


    Well, it took me a while but I discovered I was guilty of the same reasoning.  I've harped many times how my fun was diminishing since I5.....but I kept playing.  ED, Issue 6 and 7 were the same thing essentially......but I kept playing.  Since I could not argue a point as well as many of the official posters, I started believing what they were saying and that I SHOULD be having fun.  I started to think I NEEDED Suppression, an AoE limit of 17, ED, etc in order to have fun.  All the while I kept complaining and wondering while only in a great once in a while(with the rare good team) I was having any fun at all.

    Since I have now realized the game has become something I no longer enjoy and am incapable of overcoming the number of posters(I'm not saying they are representative of the majority, just the most vocal and who you have to argue a point with when posting) and developer's vision for the game, I have finally moved on to another MMO and am enjoying my play time again.

    But I definitely appreciate that you realize those that do not play the game anymore or no longer enjoy it as they once did are not wrong in their views.  We are still fans in some respect and hold out hope it will someday fit in our 'vision' again.

  • ChessackChessack Member Posts: 978


    Originally posted by Signe
    Seems to me that if an overwhelming number of the players of a game, or any product, are favourably impressed and enjoy it, then the consensus would be that the game or changes to it are pleasing to the majority.  If the opposite is true, I can't imagine that a developer or the company he works for, the publishers and stockholders, if any, would say, "ignore the majority.  Only listen to those who say nice things about our game," and set themselves on a downward spiral towards bankruptcy. 





    You're attributing too much of this to conscious analytical thought when most of the time it is not. The developers do not get the opinions of 100,000 users every month, except in the form that "your work is still of a level that I will pay you for another month for it. I'll make another decision again in 30 days." That is very generalized feedback.

    The rest of their feedback comes from extremely small sample sizes -- i.e, on the forums. Out of the 100,000 who play the game, maybe (maybe) a few thou log into the forums ever week, and a few hundred post every day. It is the views of these people that hold a disproportionate sway over the developers. If a few dozen of them are very loud, vocal, articulate fanbois, it is very easy for the developers to happily accept their judgement as accurate and brush off the equally vocal, articulate, and numerous critics who are complaining.

    This isn't a case where 99,000 people tell the devs "bad job" in no uncertain terms, and 1,000 say "good job", and the devs willfully listen to the 1%. It's a case where out of 100,000, a few dozen say "good job" and a few dozen say "bad job," and it is always easier to believe praise than criticism.

    This makes the devs human, not stupid. But they should try to be more on guard against such things than they seem to have been so far.

    C
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