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What's the point of instant-everything??

milton1970milton1970 Member Posts: 347

Instant travel? Doesn't this just let you get to somewhere quicker so you can be bored sooner since there's nothing to do?

It's not like the game involves pve anymore to gather resources to get components to make the best weapon or armour anymore.

I'm surprised sony haven't announced a new patch where you log in and you're level 90, pvp ready with a full stomach full of the right foods and equipped with the right gear with your opponents already KD'd and awaiting DB.

Firstly I wish there were 2 different games:

StarWarsPillowFight- a game for those who don't want to participate in the GCW, just so long as they can shoot stormtroopers all day without gaining a tef and then whine on the forums how they can pick a side without having any responsibility whatsoever with your looted weapons and gear.

StarWarsGalaxies-A game where you grow a pair, take responsibility for your own actions and where red is dead. Your accuracy, defenses, weapons, armour, foods are up to your toon to make the best of. Don't think this would be a cold and heartless place, swg has shown that players will go to great lengths to help out noobs and encourage community building.

And to think that when someone asked me what SWG was, the first thing I'd say is that it was a world where nearly everything ingame was created and run by other players who loved the game.

Starwars Pillowfight _ Coming to a PS2 console near you soon!!

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Comments

  • RekrulRekrul Member Posts: 2,961
    Instant everything is nice. Look at excellent action games: BF2, Half-life, Halo, quake, UT, CS, Doom. Go in, play, score.

    It's wrong thing to put into a virtual world, progression based MMORPG though.

    I see future of MMOs turning towards fixed cost, instant action no-progression games. A hybrid between action games and MMO worlds. This has, based on currently familiar design concepts, probably the highest market penetration.

    This is also the direction all large publishers are going to, like x-box live or station pass, where the online part refers mostly to availability of other players, and where the first M in MMO stands for your avatar, which is nothing more but a common account for access to all games.

    It also allows for blending of genres, game cross-overs (like they do in sitcoms, where characters from one show apear in another), and possibly virtual world being only some meta-level portal into other games, all dynamicly streamed and managed through micropayments as much as you want (cash, items, property), but you can still grind through if you wish to.

    It provides good balance between casual gamers (under 30 minutes session times, under 5 hours playtime per week) and still allows games to be interesting to power gamers (above 2 hours session times, over 20 hours playtime per week).

    But then again, I really have no clue, just extrapolating from where things are heading. What I do know, is that it's all about business, there was little true novelty in recent years, almost all resources are spent only on polish and visuals.


  • milton1970milton1970 Member Posts: 347

    You paint a frighteningly accurate picture of the future of MMORPG's I must say.

    I just find it unbelievable they rip swg apart to make it like BF2 which is already on the shelves and works a hell of a lot better then swg does

  • Agricola1Agricola1 Member UncommonPosts: 4,977

    THEORY:

    Instant gratification = instant playerbase.

    PRACTICE:

    Instant gratification = instant playerbase turnover.

    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"

    CS Lewis

  • BadBoyOnFireBadBoyOnFire Member Posts: 102
    Shows the progression of the playerbase.

    3 years ago = 15 minute shuttletimes (i think it was), 10 minute starship times, no JTL, no speeders... took hours to get anywhere. Players were happy.

    2 years ago = 5 minute shuttle times, 5 minute starship times, JTL, speeders. Players were moderately hapy.

    1 year ago = 1 minute suttle times and starship times, JTL, speeders. Players were pissed off at how all of the main congratation areas were deserted...

    Today = Instant travel everywhere. Everyone hates SoE and the game. End of story.


  • milton1970milton1970 Member Posts: 347

    Personally I simply hate the thought of buying ingame items on your credit-card, I can understand the power of market forces in today's competetive market but it really is a step too far.By applying the ,"let the market dictate" theory I could go down the local store and buy 6 grams of cokaine, an ak47, a woman, a man, some whale meat, a few tiger-skins, some ground rhino horn, ivory cufflinks and some C4 explosive so it's not always an ideal model for trading.

    I can see this happening a lot though:

    "Honey I got back from the pub last night a bit worse for wear, anyway to cut a long story short the bad news is that I put $3000 on the visa card but the good news is I now have 85% kinetic resists"

  • hYpe*hYpe* Member Posts: 27
    The instant crap sucks.
    If I'd be still playing I wouldn't be happy with it.




    -------------------------------
    http://www.rallyphoto.net

  • milton1970milton1970 Member Posts: 347


    Originally posted by hYpe*
    The instant crap sucks.
    If I'd be still playing I wouldn't be happy with it.





    And worse still, what happens when half the server have the new weapon available by purchase and the number of subs starts to drop for some reason?

    They'll end up offering the gun free to new accounts, thereby devaluing the goods people paid hard cash for.

  • RekrulRekrul Member Posts: 2,961


    Originally posted by milton1970






    And worse still, what happens when half the server have the new weapon available by purchase and the number of subs starts to drop for some reason?

    They'll end up offering the gun free to new accounts, thereby devaluing the goods people paid hard cash for.


    There are no subscriptions in pay-for-content game.

    You make revenue from content sales, not subscriptions. This is the whole beauty. You don't care how many people are playing, since micropayments cover the costs.

    Most typical examples, some employed already, would be:
    - character slots
    - dungeon access
    - storyline access
    - luxury items (cities, guild events)
    - pvp access

    All of these add no benefit if not purchased, but add content to those that seek it. In the end, players are better off, since they don't need to spend money on things they don't want, and only focus on what they like.

    A powergamer will gladly pay 8x$5 for extra character slots, while an explorer will just have one character, with access to complete storyline and dungeons, but no pvp zones or luxury items.

    This allows for much more custom tailored gameplay, where people perceive that they are saving money by not getting the content they don't need. But since they keep playing, they want to try new things, and so slowly, at their own pace, add all of available content. This is the whole point of micropayments, they allow customers to slowly build up content, rather than being required to make one huge investment upfront.

    In the end, a solid micropayment system is likely to generate more revenue than box + expansion approach, since the initial cost of expansion puts many people off. And peer pressure will ensure people buy more than they need.

    And everyone is happy:
    - Customer gets no-subscription entertainment
    - Company has steady stream of revenue
    - Overall revenue is greater than from subscriptions, yet customers feel in control over their investment, since they perceive gradual content additions fairer than being required to purchase expansions as they are released.
  • milton1970milton1970 Member Posts: 347

    Still sounds like people will end up paying for more than they should do.

    Companies aren't just doing it for our convenience, they do it because they know that the average gamer will happily be suckered into it and purchase more than they need.

    Also I doubt if I trust SOE in particular not too nerf everything and start all over again.

  • BissrokBissrok Member Posts: 1,002


    Originally posted by milton1970

    Still sounds like people will end up paying for more than they should do.
    Companies aren't just doing it for our convenience, they do it because they know that the average gamer will happily be suckered into it and purchase more than they need.
    Also I doubt if I trust SOE in particular not too nerf everything and start all over again.


    QFT. When they don't charge you a monthly fee, and you just pay for items and perks, they're not doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. They're doing it because people will come in, thinking they get to play a free game. If they charge for money, getting money, or items to sell for money, is going to be a b****. If they sell high level weapons, all the later content will be impossible without one. You might be able to get away with not paying anything... but you probably won't enjoy it all that much.

    And sadly, they'll probably do pretty well. Because one nut-job gamer, who doesn't mind spending handfulls of money to be the best, can make up for a few of us. And they are out there. One guy I know spent over a hundred dollars in exchange for credits. He did it twice. Another spent around the same to get a Jedi account back when they were hard to come by. Between the two of them that's $300 right there. That would pay for 20 subscriptions.
  • RekrulRekrul Member Posts: 2,961


    Originally posted by Bissrok



    And sadly, they'll probably do pretty well. Because one nut-job gamer, who doesn't mind spending handfulls of money to be the best, can make up for a few of us. And they are out there. One guy I know spent over a hundred dollars in exchange for credits. He did it twice. Another spent around the same to get a Jedi account back when they were hard to come by. Between the two of them that's $300 right there. That would pay for 20 subscriptions.


    When you save money by switching to Geiko, do you really think you're saving money, and Geiko is such a kind company?

    Let's not fool anyone, they've found a small little tidbit, that gives them advantage and increased profits.

    But this isn't slavery, you're free to do what you want.

    A company that relies on subscriptions has one mindset, keeping them.
    A company that has a more flexible aproach, can truly tailor the gameplay experience to their players.

    In the end, although you're paying more, you're getting more. Since you're no longer locked into the game with long-grind and per-account subscription, they need to improve their offerings. Cheap gimmicks like 2x xp or decorative items don't work there.

    So in the end, both the company and the player win.

    People tend to see things to negatively. I like the example of GuildWars. A free game, that, per-month costs less than $15 subscription games. But they need to make sure they don't come through as "free game". Their server downtime in over one year has been less than 24h total. Compare that to SOE where you're paying for maintainance, and you get regular several hour downtime every two days at very least.

    It just goes to prove that subscriptions aren't a necessary evil to keep things going. And for a consumer, this is a good thing. When consumers play games with less upfront cost, they are much more likely to drop poor games. And the laws of competition take care of the rest.

    If it weren't for the lock-in and various attraction schemes, SWG would be empty. But people do like their nickel-coated fireworks guns, and the ITV, and decorative paintings, and they have friends, who stay there because of friends, and friends, and ... - you get a cycle of mutual dependancy. Since if someone quits, they lose access to all of that. Nothing like that in free games, people just stop playing.

    There are plenty succesful "free" games out there, especially in Asia, which prove that the model works well. Western markets are just so used to the vendor lock-in, they don't trust different aproaches.

    And a common misconception is, that content-purchases involve buying superior weapons. This is the lamest rip-off model, which has already been proven to "fail". It's too obvious and too discriminating. True pay-per-content models work because they give nobody the edge. They just give you more stuff to do. SWG uses the old lame model - pay for extra levels. How many people fall for that?
  • milton1970milton1970 Member Posts: 347


    Originally posted by Rekrul

    Originally posted by Bissrok





    And sadly, they'll probably do pretty well. Because one nut-job gamer, who doesn't mind spending handfulls of money to be the best, can make up for a few of us. And they are out there. One guy I know spent over a hundred dollars in exchange for credits. He did it twice. Another spent around the same to get a Jedi account back when they were hard to come by. Between the two of them that's $300 right there. That would pay for 20 subscriptions.

    When you save money by switching to Geiko, do you really think you're saving money, and Geiko is such a kind company?

    Let's not fool anyone, they've found a small little tidbit, that gives them advantage and increased profits.

    But this isn't slavery, you're free to do what you want.

    A company that relies on subscriptions has one mindset, keeping them.
    A company that has a more flexible aproach, can truly tailor the gameplay experience to their players.

    In the end, although you're paying more, you're getting more. Since you're no longer locked into the game with long-grind and per-account subscription, they need to improve their offerings. Cheap gimmicks like 2x xp or decorative items don't work there.

    So in the end, both the company and the player win.

    People tend to see things to negatively. I like the example of GuildWars. A free game, that, per-month costs less than $15 subscription games. But they need to make sure they don't come through as "free game". Their server downtime in over one year has been less than 24h total. Compare that to SOE where you're paying for maintainance, and you get regular several hour downtime every two days at very least.

    It just goes to prove that subscriptions aren't a necessary evil to keep things going. And for a consumer, this is a good thing. When consumers play games with less upfront cost, they are much more likely to drop poor games. And the laws of competition take care of the rest.

    If it weren't for the lock-in and various attraction schemes, SWG would be empty. But people do like their nickel-coated fireworks guns, and the ITV, and decorative paintings, and they have friends, who stay there because of friends, and friends, and ... - you get a cycle of mutual dependancy. Since if someone quits, they lose access to all of that. Nothing like that in free games, people just stop playing.

    There are plenty succesful "free" games out there, especially in Asia, which prove that the model works well. Western markets are just so used to the vendor lock-in, they don't trust different aproaches.

    And a common misconception is, that content-purchases involve buying superior weapons. This is the lamest rip-off model, which has already been proven to "fail". It's too obvious and too discriminating. True pay-per-content models work because they give nobody the edge. They just give you more stuff to do. SWG uses the old lame model - pay for extra levels. How many people fall for that?

    I was quite happy with pre-cu content and could have lived without jtl. Wookies was worthless apart from some repeatable quests which got very boring plus all the jedi hiding from BH's amongst the bugs and the less said about the ToOW the better after announcing NGE the day after release.

    Asian business models don't always work the same in different areas, hence the 23 people in the USA watching the world cup compared with the billions watching all over the rest of the world. Saying that this mode of gamepayment will be a success is a little naive. How many parents will put up a never ending stream of cash for their kids to play? Maybe for a month or so it'll generate a lot , and I mean a lot of interest, but it's a short-term carrot on a stick marketing strategy.

    You fall in and out of love with MMORPG's. Sometimes I'd play continually, at other times when the weather was good I wouldn't play for a week or a month at a time, I'd be fine to keep paying my monthly subs which I knew were a fixed cost. Now what may happen is to pick up where I left off I will have to buy A B C etc just to be able to run around with guildmates. No thanks, the whole idea of buying loot and extra access just seems lame, we're here to play a game, not to spend our way through it.

    A company that relies on subscriptions has one mindset, keeping them. OK, unfortunately SOE thought they could dump the existing ones for a mythical one but I'm agreeing with you in principle here


    A company that has a more flexible aproach, can truly tailor the gameplay experience to their players. It doesn't matter how you sugarcoat it, it just sounds like a rip-off since they'll never aim to save you money. I already had  a tailored gameply experience in pre-cu and I certainly wouldn't want to have had to pay each time I wanted to pvp, dwb, harvest, craft, sell, buy

    I'm sure you are right to a large extent, it's the way forward and so it shall be for a while. Like you said it makes perfect business sense to do it this way. Unfortunately it's a crying shame. I just really hope you're wrong


  • XcathdraXcathdra Member CommonPosts: 1,027

    Instant gratification goes, mostly, with the new player base they are wanting... The gimme gimme now kids (and not everyone is like this.. but you get the idea). There was an article on CNN about American Culture and how people wanted their stuff right then and there... I personally do not think this style works in a game.. but whatever... The game is broken, and instead of fixing they are giving players quick bandaids to keep em hooked. Kinda like the instant travel kit... They used that to get players into the game... Now everyone is going to be getting a version of it.

    Why call somethign unique if it gets mass produced?

    Xcathdra

    Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
    Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
    Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.

  • Wildcat84Wildcat84 Member Posts: 2,304
    It's not Starwars-Y and Iconic to actually explore worlds and immerse yourself into the world that is Star Wars.

    We are dealing with people who probably only saw EP1 and think that Jar Jar and annoyingly cute Anakin are the definition of Starwars-Y and Iconic.



  • RekrulRekrul Member Posts: 2,961


    Originally posted by Xcathdra

    Instant gratification goes, mostly, with the new player base they are wanting... The gimme gimme now kids (and not everyone is like this.. but you get the idea).



    Lets not fool anyone here.

    Take 100 people.
    They can choose to watch TV of their choice, or read a book of their choice.
    They can choose between McDonalds or exquisite cusine.
    They can choose between helping at comunity center or watch football playoffs with six-pack.

    What do you think the numbers are?

    Game companies are dying. Computer entertainment is the future. And they provide the masses. Who cares about the remaining 10%. Unless they'd be willing to pay 10x as much, there is no market.
  • ObraikObraik Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,261


    Originally posted by Wildcat84
    It's not Starwars-Y and Iconic to actually explore worlds and immerse yourself into the world that is Star Wars.

    We are dealing with people who probably only saw EP1 and think that Jar Jar and annoyingly cute Anakin are the definition of Starwars-Y and Iconic.



    An ITV doesn't exactly drop you into the middle of no where.  It takes you from the middle of no where and dumps you back into civilization.  So, you need to explore to use it.

    image

    image

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Lets not forget you do not have to use such things  ,IF you do not want to . How many of you played when there were no player shuttles set up , no vehicles and no mounts ? Fun, Fun , Fun took 2 hours to walk to the nearest POI . 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • DubiousDubious Member Posts: 15

    I don't even know if this on topic with the OP anymore but hey...

    I don't understand why anybody would want a pay/perk model.

    I don't know about you guys but I always thought that it was the light at the end of the tunnel that keeps you putting one foot in front of the other.

    The answer isn't to offer up the gratification of the light to the highest bidder. The answer is to make a REALLY FUN TUNNEL for everybody to travel through together. Get tot he light too quick and you're only going to burn your eye-balls anyway 

    Abstract metaphors aside. If you simply whip out the old CC to buy your uber gear then you miss the whole point of an MMORPG (which is what SWG used to be). The point is to have fun reaching your goals. And the point to the MMO part of the equation is that you get to meet people and BUILD  A COMMUNITY in the process.

    Maybe you would get a chance to become more intimate with your CC in a pay/perk world. But how much fun can you really have with a piece of plastic?

    Personally I have a very limited gaming budget. When it comes to money there are plenty 'more sensible' ways of dispensing it. What I would love to see is a subscription model that doesn't punish you for not playing the game 24/7. Why don't we have pay per minutes plans? I know that I would be a lot more willing to part with $100s of my hard earned cash if I knew that I would get to see every penny of it.

    Especially for players like myself. I tend to play games heavily for a few weeks then I like to have a break and try something else, I'm sure there's a lot of you who are the same. with pay per minute you wouldn't be punished for this, so like I said, you'd be more willing to fork over big bundles of cash at a time, which is great for the developer because they have more instant revenue (there you go, it still creates instant gratification for the developers) that they can use instantly to increase the value/quality of the game. 

    And think about it. It might even stop the incessant AFK macro-ing you see all too often in a lot of MMOs, along with other annoying player habbits that I care not think about ATM.

  • SyrikRonoveSyrikRonove Member Posts: 19


    Originally posted by Rekrul

    And to think that when someone asked me what SWG was, the first thing I'd say is that it was a world where nearly everything ingame was created and run by other players who loved the game.


    If this is the type of game you want, eye candy isn't a big deal to you, and you aren't married to the sci-fi/fantasy genres...check out Roma-Victor.  Talk about sand box type game play, community driven story line and interaction, hardcore pvp/looting etc...this game has everything SWG used to minus the good graphics and terrible customer service.  The main difference is that combat is more twitch based and less template building, which I love but understand some wouldnt.

    Anyway, I just thought I'd put this out there.  I'm a SWG refugee from pre-cu.  I made it through the CU and the NGE killed me...twice.  Been looking for a game to pique my interest since then but just can't get into any of the next gen mmo's.  I pre-ordered and tested Roma Victor and found I was right at home.  Brang back a lot of the fun I had in SWG pre-cu and reminded me a lot of it.  There's actually a lot of SWG refugees there.

    If nothing else I would put an ear out there when its released (in a couple of weeks for pre-orders and two weeks after that for full commercial release) and see if it might be something you like. 

    I'm not doing this for publicity for RV, I'm doing it because I long for the days of pre-cu SWG and RV has totally caught my fancy and thought I would share it with any other SWG vets who are looking for a new MMO that can compare to pre-cu and might be interested.

  • VastarVastar Member Posts: 176
     Rekrul, I don't see how this "pay for perk" system makes me happy. I enjoy competing with my fellow players within the game's economy. I like starting equally at launch and getting where my wits take me. When real world cash affects that competition, it ruins the fun. I mean, I could just compare net worths with my friends and go to bed if that's what I wanted.

     So maybe that's thinking in terms of "the lamest rip-off model" and we can all agree it wouldn't work.. or at least be any fun.  Let's look at what might be part of the superior model...

    Character Slots -  How could a game with any depth not end up with this being an advantage?

    Dungeon Access / Soryline Access - I hope there's no valuable loot coming out of these. Also, I don't want to log on and have my guild heading for X and I've got to spend $$ or be left behind.

    Luxury Items - I would assume this would be the end result of being sucessfull normally, self-explanitory.

    PvP Access - (I assume we're talking about combat PvP ) If there's no benefits coming from the PvP and therefore no damage to the competition with those not involved with it, how many people are really going to do it in the first place?

     If they want to increase profits, create and maintian a decent game. I'd *easily* payout more than $15 per month for a seriously enjoyable game. I'm not saying alternative payment models could never work *and* be as enjoyable, I just haven't been shown any examples yet nor can I come up with one.





  • SinisterCBSinisterCB Member Posts: 302

    Ummm. To take the fun out of the game and ruin it?

    "I'm not a racist...I only hate stupid people..."-SinisterCB

  • RekrulRekrul Member Posts: 2,961


    Originally posted by Vastar
     

     If they want to increase profits, create and maintian a decent game. I'd *easily* payout more than $15 per month for a seriously enjoyable game. I'm not saying alternative payment models could never work *and* be as enjoyable, I just haven't been shown any examples yet nor can I come up with one.




    Subscription games are history. Service access is the future.

    You pay a monthly fee (like internet access fee) to get access to online gaming community.

    Then you get into any game for free. You get access to basic gameplay, can interact, explore, do basic dungeons, do basic pvp. You get the taste of the game. All this, 10 - 100 games total, for $15 a month. You'll hop between 10-20 games regularly.

    In the games you like, you'll want to do more. If you like crafting, you simply purchase the crafting content, and get access to everything. If you're into pvp, you buy the pvp content. Each of this is a one-time payment of $5.

    Content is no longer released as bulky, 50+ quests, 25+ bosses $50 box. You're in a game, want to try something new, you have various storylines available, $5 each. These are added within world monthly, as episodic content across all spectra.

    Why is loot problem? SWG for example uses a highly archaic model of elite mobs spawning ultimate must-have weapons. This is due to lack of any forsight in combat design. Take GW for a better example. Lots of weapons, different skins, different mods, but all balanced. While some are more useful to your build, no weapon is unbalancing.

    All players start with one character slot. That's enough to play the game. While trying, you can reroll, as long as you can't respec. Along every step of progression you can change your template as you will without regrinding. But once you settle with you character, you'll want to try something more, or have more options. Once again, just buy another slot, $5.

    This way, you slowly build your game up as you progress. Rather than being thrown into a bunch of content you'll take weeks to reach (when you start SWG, it'll take weeks before you can even get close to HK), so why pay upfront. What if you get bored of the game halfway through.

    Micropayments allow you to purchase the content as needed, and it allows service operator to provide it in small, controllable and frequent updates. In the end, you'll spend just as much money as you do now, but you will do so over a longer period of time.

    Take SWG starter kit. People bought it just for ITV. It cost $15. This alone was reason for many not to buy it. But if ITV alone were offered at $5, more people would buy it. If these addons are useful, and in the case of ITV 3x more people buy it because of micropayments, then the operator is making profit.

    Why should WoW people pay for pvp, when they are playing on role-playing servers?

    Game design will change, as well as the whole service offering. If you claim that WoW is doing just fine with classic subscription model, then keep in mind that when you start developing a game of such scale, it'll be 3 years before it launches. 3 years ago SWG was about to be launched, UO was in NGE and EQ was the king. How has the world changed since then? How will it change in next 3 years? Asian markets, which are lightyears ahead in MMO offerings are already going through huge crisis, since existing models aren't adequate anymore.
  • RekrulRekrul Member Posts: 2,961


    Originally posted by Dubious


    Abstract metaphors aside. If you simply whip out the old CC to buy your uber gear then you miss the whole point of an MMORPG (which is what SWG used to be). The point is to have fun reaching your goals. And the point to the MMO part of the equation is that you get to meet people and BUILD  A COMMUNITY in the process.


    Communities have nothing to do with games anymore. They have long moved into a completely other meta-plane of x-fire, myspace, instant messaging and guild forums.

    None of the communities are tied to a single game anymore. They are formed in smaller, tighter and more loyal groups.

    StationPass is catering them. One pass, 5, 7 (or how many are there) games, where you can always stay in touch with friends, regardless of what you're playing.

    Blizzard is moving in the same direction. PlayNC doesn't cater to this yet, maybe they won't.

    But with expansions of the market, and increased offerings, brand loyalty is dropping fast. Old, 2+ years dedication is a thing of history, a niche market measured in long-term insignifficant numbers. And even then those people are too busy playing UO, Eve, DaoC or AC. They don't care for new games, nor they ever will.

    The new markets lie in episodic content, frequent updates, and immediate apeal, such as events, short session gameplay and more emphasis on direct interaction, attempting to exclude the grind or any kind of artificial progression completely.

    The era of powergaming level grinders is over. What the whole MMO comunity is waiting for now, is a paradigm shift in design of games. From EQ to WoW, all games are designed exactly and to the point like each other. There's not a single distinguishing feature left. Kill mobs/do quests, get xp, get items, get level. This model is showing severe lack of innovation. There's just nothing left that can be done, that doesn't involve reskinning the big boss, and adding more health to it, in reaturn for Dark Scepter of Magic, rather than Light Scepter of Magic that other mobs drop.

    This has happened before. Some genres adapted, some didn't. Adventure games exhausted itself, space simulations like-wise, RTS has nothing more to offer anymore, and FPS lives almost exclusively off improving the graphics. But there was nothing new on the scale of what (for example) GTA 3+ offered. Even Oblivion, while praised and well sold isn't mainstream. And even fresh ideas for old concepts have trouble capturing the audience and provide more than tens of hours of content.

    While MMO market is currently booming, there isn't anything out there in the future that would offer at least a bit of something to look forward to. Ok, so Roma Victor is cool because it has involved crafting. People have done the crafting, and they want better gameplay, not just relive the concepts that were exhausted in UO and SWG. Even if perfectly done, the overall apeal will be much shorter than in previous games.
  • SinisterCBSinisterCB Member Posts: 302


    Originally posted by Rekrul

    Originally posted by Vastar  If they want to increase profits, create and maintian a decent game. I'd *easily* payout more than $15 per month for a seriously enjoyable game. I'm not saying alternative payment models could never work *and* be as enjoyable, I just haven't been shown any examples yet nor can I come up with one.
    Subscription games are history. Service access is the future.You pay a monthly fee (like internet access fee) to get access to online gaming community.Then you get into any game for free. You get access to basic gameplay, can interact, explore, do basic dungeons, do basic pvp. You get the taste of the game. All this, 10 - 100 games total, for $15 a month. You'll hop between 10-20 games regularly.In the games you like, you'll want to do more. If you like crafting, you simply purchase the crafting content, and get access to everything. If you're into pvp, you buy the pvp content. Each of this is a one-time payment of $5. Content is no longer released as bulky, 50+ quests, 25+ bosses $50 box. You're in a game, want to try something new, you have various storylines available, $5 each. These are added within world monthly, as episodic content across all spectra. Why is loot problem? SWG for example uses a highly archaic model of elite mobs spawning ultimate must-have weapons. This is due to lack of any forsight in combat design. Take GW for a better example. Lots of weapons, different skins, different mods, but all balanced. While some are more useful to your build, no weapon is unbalancing.All players start with one character slot. That's enough to play the game. While trying, you can reroll, as long as you can't respec. Along every step of progression you can change your template as you will without regrinding. But once you settle with you character, you'll want to try something more, or have more options. Once again, just buy another slot, $5.This way, you slowly build your game up as you progress. Rather than being thrown into a bunch of content you'll take weeks to reach (when you start SWG, it'll take weeks before you can even get close to HK), so why pay upfront. What if you get bored of the game halfway through.Micropayments allow you to purchase the content as needed, and it allows service operator to provide it in small, controllable and frequent updates. In the end, you'll spend just as much money as you do now, but you will do so over a longer period of time. Take SWG starter kit. People bought it just for ITV. It cost $15. This alone was reason for many not to buy it. But if ITV alone were offered at $5, more people would buy it. If these addons are useful, and in the case of ITV 3x more people buy it because of micropayments, then the operator is making profit.Why should WoW people pay for pvp, when they are playing on role-playing servers? Game design will change, as well as the whole service offering. If you claim that WoW is doing just fine with classic subscription model, then keep in mind that when you start developing a game of such scale, it'll be 3 years before it launches. 3 years ago SWG was about to be launched, UO was in NGE and EQ was the king. How has the world changed since then? How will it change in next 3 years? Asian markets, which are lightyears ahead in MMO offerings are already going through huge crisis, since existing models aren't adequate anymore.

    /agreed

    That's why they are doing this Station Pass thing. They think it will make them more money by offering the 5 or 6 best MMORPG's from the recent years and also port it to PS3 so they can access as well. Watch, all of the current SOE titles will be ported for PS3. Of course, they'll have to dumb them all down for the kiddies to be able to play.

    "I'm not a racist...I only hate stupid people..."-SinisterCB

  • elitwebbelitwebb Member Posts: 342


    Originally posted by milton1970

    Personally I simply hate the thought of buying ingame items on your credit-card, I can understand the power of market forces in today's competetive market but it really is a step too far.By applying the ,"let the market dictate" theory I could go down the local store and buy 6 grams of cokaine, an ak47, a woman, a man, some whale meat, a few tiger-skins, some ground rhino horn, ivory cufflinks and some C4 explosive so it's not always an ideal model for trading.
    I can see this happening a lot though:
    "Honey I got back from the pub last night a bit worse for wear, anyway to cut a long story short the bad news is that I put $3000 on the visa card but the good news is I now have 85% kinetic resists"


    Can I have the name of that store?  I want to see about getting a franchise in my neighborhood.
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