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welcome to the "dark age" of the MMORPG industry...
dolanious
Member Posts: 186
No-one in the industy seems to be listening.
A real point here, that seems to get lost in all the side discussion, is the very real fact that Linear has won over Sandbox style of MMO. This
has set the industry back about 6 years in my opinion. The "WoW effect"
has single-handedly caused the sex change of SWG from an open-ended
sandbox, to a sick, perverted, half-breed of a Linear crossover.
I
just can't understand why developers hate sand-box games so much.
Sandbox games are what the ultimate MMO is supposed to be, not
linear.... not cooky-cutter... these types of MMO's can never simulate
an open-ended world with the freedoms that sandbox games can. This
linear crap that the "WoW effect" has brought has perverted the
industry away from sand-box style games... as proof, one only needs to
look at the games currently in development on the MMO horizion to see
that there are zero sandbox MMO's even on the drawing board.
The next company to create a sandbox MMO will get my money, and lots of it.
Also,
there needs to be more space-based MMO's (EVE doesn't really count,
it's more of an RTS-MMORPG)... an MMO that ties the space game into the
ground game (instead of two seperate entity's like SWG [unfortunatly]
did. I personally, hate this cartoony fantasy crap that's out their
right now. I hope we see a shift in the next generation of MMO's
towards space-based settings.
My final point is this: I
think we're entering a "dark age" in MMO history, where nothing of
substance is being created, no real quality, no depth, no breadth....
and no end in sight. In short, it sucks to be us.
A real point here, that seems to get lost in all the side discussion, is the very real fact that Linear has won over Sandbox style of MMO. This
has set the industry back about 6 years in my opinion. The "WoW effect"
has single-handedly caused the sex change of SWG from an open-ended
sandbox, to a sick, perverted, half-breed of a Linear crossover.
I
just can't understand why developers hate sand-box games so much.
Sandbox games are what the ultimate MMO is supposed to be, not
linear.... not cooky-cutter... these types of MMO's can never simulate
an open-ended world with the freedoms that sandbox games can. This
linear crap that the "WoW effect" has brought has perverted the
industry away from sand-box style games... as proof, one only needs to
look at the games currently in development on the MMO horizion to see
that there are zero sandbox MMO's even on the drawing board.
The next company to create a sandbox MMO will get my money, and lots of it.
Also,
there needs to be more space-based MMO's (EVE doesn't really count,
it's more of an RTS-MMORPG)... an MMO that ties the space game into the
ground game (instead of two seperate entity's like SWG [unfortunatly]
did. I personally, hate this cartoony fantasy crap that's out their
right now. I hope we see a shift in the next generation of MMO's
towards space-based settings.
My final point is this: I
think we're entering a "dark age" in MMO history, where nothing of
substance is being created, no real quality, no depth, no breadth....
and no end in sight. In short, it sucks to be us.
Comments
Yea this is the Dark Age of MMO gaming, and there isnt a Renaissance anywhere down the road because I dont see anybody in this industry right now that relates to Chaucer.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
And as many asteriods, platetoids, etc. Each its own world.
And space, did I mention the vastness of space in my vision?
And the thing is, a clustered system could handle the problem too...
anyway, my day dream of a real sandbox SCIFI MMO/RPG/RTS/FPS.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
It appears we both agree, I really don't see how the MMO market will break out of it's "Wow Effect". As you state, I also believe that the damage is going to be long-term.
It's going to take a maverick developer that hasn't even been formed yet to create an innovative sandbox game, with depth and breadth that will force the big development houses to change.
I'd guess that maybe by 2009, if we're lucky.
I play WoW so I guess im part of the scourge. But I really dont believe WoW is the cause of this. Is it the reason for the NGE....probably, but beyond that I dont think its influenced the market anymore than EQ1 or EQ2, or even L2 or AO. I mean so many of these games have so much in common, so you cant really blame one or the other for x feature in x game. The only factor you can go on is WoW's success, although it is a big factor. If youre gonna blame WoW for the status of the industry, then you might as well blame Ford for all the bad vehicles that are made.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
I played WoW for awhile to Spath. I don't think individual players are neccessarily at fault. (How I'm going to say that in this editorial I have no clue, I gotta tread extremely careful, then hope the powers that be like it lol.) I think it's more the reaction the market gave to WoW.
I might open a discussion thread somewhere to get a few ideas on how to approach it before I go try to sit down and write it.
For the Horde!
For the Horde!
WoW is not the problem.
The problem is these dumb ass game developers trying to copy WoW to make a buck.
Is There no cReAtIvItY anymore?
Easy is not always better......some ppl like it hard
and what is so hard about skills instead of levels?
work. There are multiple problems with MMO design by the big
development houses today, and just like the stool, you just can't fix
just one problem and expect a solution to work, all three problems need
to be fixed or nothing works (i.e. the stool doesn't stand).
Oh, and here's why the phrase, "WoW effect" is real, and not just a glib creation. Most people don't play more than one MMO. Why?
1) Because you have to pay a monthly fee, $15 a month for one is too much for most, let alone for another.
2) MMO's are time-consuming, and meant to be in-depth, this means if you're splitting your time between 2 MMO's, you're not really playing either, are you? (meaning you don't get indepth with either, since you're splitting your time up). And if you are, you're certainly the exception not the rule.
For these reasons, the MMO industry is differen't than any other gaming genre. It's not like you make an FPS game... chances are palyers are going to
buy another FPS game in another month, and switch between the two often. For MMO's, it's an all-or-nothing deal, a 0 sum game. There's a finite # of subcribers and if you don't have them, you don't have them, and wont unless they cancel their other sub.
This is why the "Wow effect" is so profoud. WoW isn't just apart of the MMORPG industry, it practically IS the industry because the bulk of MMO subs belong to them.
Um, software can be made of nominal quality. Just because you played SWG doesn't mean the rest of the industry is like that.
The fact that SWG couldn't be properly debuged because of its complexity is complete and utter BS. It comes from revolving door policy, revenue driven management, and complete lack of attention on code.
This is how majority of business operate.
A few years back agile developmend became a fad. While not perfect, it does cater to changing requirements well. It was adopted by many gaming companies, allowing them to almost entirely eliminate the defects in software.
Due to the Microsoft affect, many people are convinced that it's impossible to make software that doesn't launch with bugs, incomplete features, and broken content. This is wrong. For quite some time techniques exist which allow incredibly comprehensive, exhaustive automated software quality control since day one of development. Downsides: good engineers, no-nonsense management with no hidden agenda, and open aproach to problems.
These are all the traits you will not find in a typical business. Engineers are hired round the clock, their only task is to implement what the requirements document says. Nobody cares if what is done actually works. Management is completely separated, middle managers locked in eternal powerfights, spending majority of time climbing the ladder and shifting the blame. Problems are never addressed. Most of management spends their time finding someone else to blame, and finding new ways to work around existing problems.
But there are companies that know how to operate today, not in medieval times. Because these are indeed medieval feudal times of software industry. Game development is lagging in these aspects, but they are catching on. What's more, they are becoming imperative in order to be even able to compete.
But anyone claiming that MMOs cannot be released without bugs lives in a dark place. In a world where a company is handling 70 million clients (myspace) or billions database queries per hour (google/yahoo), an MMO with several thousand concurrent users is a toy.
But it all comes from the fact, that people who can bring this cost money. Those that invest into people reap the rewards. Those that don't, clutch on every single dime whenever they can.
It's not software development that's the problem, as always, it's all about money.
It may be a bit laxer, but burst your bubble right now.
STO will be completely star treky and iconic from day one.
To my knowledge, SOE is the only MMO company that has tried to adopt a WoW model with its games. I don't see a trend towards greating similar games to WoW. Like others have said, if anything, Blizzard has shown theres a large market for MMOs.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
People sadly have very little imagination these days and have to be led sheep like to get anywhere,this is the secret of WOW's success,blindly leading players on a set path,this is the way forward of MMO sadly SWG was the last bastion of the sandbox game me thinks and given its failure nobody will be willing to put money into creating another sandbox game in a hurry.
As i say people are thick nowadays
There are a lot of crap MMORPGs around and in development. I think that is just a symptom of there being more of them. I mean, think of how many GOOD movies you enjoy. Now think about how many lame ones there are by comparison. I always thought of the MMORPG "dark age" as post EQ launch. Really though, we just started having more to compare to after that. Along with that, I think games require more than just the novelty of being an MMORPG.
With a larger market I'm guessing we'll get more casual players and the ratio won't ever really even out. When people have only a mild interest in something they'll never require as "good" of a product. Those that take it more seriously are going to need something else. Now that the MMORPG making thing has been more than pioneered, what type of game do you think less innovative followers are going to shoot for? The complex one with a smaller, more picky market or the easy road with the larger less concerned crowd?
No matter what the real reason though, can we just please get ONE decent MMORPG with a bit of depth to it and some real player interaction?
I agree with the OP.
I think a persistant online world needs a the sandbox model and a complicated crafting system with interdependant professions as a backdrop to a good pvp system. I think this is the only way to make a complete "real feeling" world with real immersion.
I play EVE now, but I would prefer a ground based humanoid avatar in a scifi world.
They should make a mmorpg based on the Star Wars universe, I think there would be a lot of interest in that.
SoE's greed made them change their game, and they have been taking the wrong decissions since then.
I wouldn't mind to play a swg game done by Blizzard, but I still prefered SWG pre-cu.
It's all SoE/LA's fault in my opinion.
--Sandbox games are what the ultimate MMO is supposed to be, not linear--
Precisely.
SWG pre-CU did it and did it well. The devs mistook people's complaints to be caused by the sandbox universe that SWG had created. In reality, people were complaining about bugs, UI issues, and combat balance.
The sandbox MMO is ultimately going to take over, but as you have said we are entering a dark age. I'm sure there will be a renaissance because I'm going to be a part of it:)