Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
More Troubling News about Vanguard
jonaku
Member Posts: 281
From the Fires of Heaven guild website:
http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/22970-vanguard-making-game-they-go.html
It seems that every week, more bad news about the game keeps leaking out....
Comments
Ut has a way of placing INCREDIBLE spin on the simplist of issues. If the same information was being given from any other source I would give it more credibility...but, well....I just can bring myself to believe much of what he says....
Sure he's quoting a questionaire that was sent out to the Beta testers...but like....why wouldn't they ask questions like "What sort of quests would you like to see" and "What would make you want to visit 'unfinished' zones". It's kinda a no brainer...I like the fact that they are respectful enough to acknowledge that the Gamer knows what he finds fun. =P
Ut, though, has always had an axe to grind.... and he makes his posts and he concentrates at length on these alleged problems with Vanguard as if it were the end of the world. Frankly...I don't care if they built the game entirely on feedback and beta testers....if its a fun game, then I would be dumb not to play it.
Ut has a way of placing INCREDIBLE spin on the simplist of issues. If the same information was being given from any other source I would give it more credibility...but, well....I just can bring myself to believe much of what he says....
Sure he's quoting a questionaire that was sent out to the Beta testers...but like....why wouldn't they ask questions like "What sort of quests would you like to see" and "What would make you want to visit 'unfinished' zones". It's kinda a no brainer...I like the fact that they are respectful enough to acknowledge that the Gamer knows what he finds fun. =P
Ut, though, has always had an axe to grind.... and he makes his posts and he concentrates at length on these alleged problems with Vanguard as if it were the end of the world. Frankly...I don't care if they built the game entirely on feedback and beta testers....if its a fun game, then I would be dumb not to play it.
Well said Vengeful. I agree with what you've written, although I don't know anything about this Ut fellow or that guild site. All I know is that Vanguard looks interesting, it is being created buy some developers I am familiar with, and it looks to go back to the style of mmorpg that I really appreciated most.
There will be a lot more of this type of opinion going around, saying that Vanguard is not fun, mostly due to the fact that it takes features that have been replaced by newer ones, allowing the more casual player to enjoy the game.
I don't have anything against these newer mmorpgs, but I have a special interest in Vanguard, so I will be there at launch to try it out, regardless of these negative opinion posts.
And about the statements about Vanguard being developed by the beta testers . . . good. It's about time developers of a game really reached out to the players and asked for some important advice.
Yeah Ut is just a huge loser with nothing better to do then bash a game over and over. Why not find a game you like then? I cant understand why he would use 'they are asking beta testers what they feel about the game they are testing as a negative.
I've beta'd games before and wish they would have asked us what we thought about specific parts of the game. Not to mention they have plenty of time to develop the game further. That is the point of a beta; to fix problems. Given that any of what he has said before is true.
Thank you, jonaku -- we already got your message that you don't like the game.
First off, that Utnayan post is old news, dated June 4, we have already seen that.
Utnayan is a joke on the VG Official Boards. He hasn't played Vanguard, he is not in the beta, yet twists every comment to the negative side.
OMG -- imagine Sigil asking beta testers for some basic input! That's just plain ... errr ... ummm ... GOOD. They want their opinions. I hope they ask me if I get into the beta.
Likewise, the FoH guild message board is notorious for bashing and trashing Vanguard. It's well known; don't need to keep hearing this.
BTW, sure you can post your venom all you like, but this is a fan-site NOT a troll-site. Attacking Vanguard now seems to be your personal vendetta -- and we all assume it is due to SOE being in the picture.
I can assure you that nothing, not one thing, that you post will have the slightest affect on Vanguard's development. On the contrary, your negativity will most likely backfire since it is so transparently biased.
Like I said, this is a fan-site. If you're not a fan, if you have nothing constructive to add, you might consider spending your energy in some other -- more productive -- direction.
Nevertheless, thanks for your opinions. I am sure you are, in your own mind, only try to save us from Vanguard and SOE. Personally, I don't need saving.
~ Ancient Membership ~
UT is one of the least knowledgeable posters on the FoH board. He is frequently found complaining about features and ideas in Vanguard that don't even exist. Brad has called him on his lack of knowledge many times. Rather than crawl back into his whole he just makes more things up. If he would actually just read the Silky Venom FaQ before he started bashing at least he could look somewhat educated.
This particular post starts off woith Vanguard has been in development for 4.5 years. Again more lies or innacurate information by UT. Vanguard began development in the summer of 2002 (4 years ago). The rest of his arguments are not even worth responding to. His logic is comical. Most of his complaints are ridiclous. To try to make the argument that Sigil is overpromising is beyond belief. The problem here is UT does not read the devs posts, does not read the previews, and does not read the boards. Sigil and Brad have been upfront about what will make into release and what will not. They don't over promise. I have never seen a game developer go out of their way to underhype and under promise a game like Sigil. Sigil should be the role model for all games in terms of honesty and presentation of what may make it into the final release.
There are many valid complaints I have seen about Vanguard. I have read many posts that make very good arguments as to why Vanguard may not succeeed. I share many of the concerns about Vanguard that have been expressed by knowledgeable and inteligent people. But, I have never read anything from UT but rubbish. He would be better off copying and pasting some of the valid complaints about Vanguard rather than attempting to make arguments on his own. He is simply not capable of doing such a thing.
I agree that Sigil taking a survey from their beta-testers is not indiciative that the game will suck. In fact, I think it is cool that they are looking for feedback. Also, beta is an unreleased product and thus game designers COULD create additional quests and content for these areas or new areas based on player ideas.
What Sigil is doing in this survey should be applauded; not hated.
What people should be worried about is the fact that the game is hemoraging beta-testers because it is not fun to play. The fact that Sigil is trying to make it FUN to play is actually a good sign.
Btw, I saw it at E3, and it was ugly and seemed broken there. He is probably not lying about the beta-testers or the survey. . . it's just his spin that is crazy and wrong.
Though, the game being ugly and broken might be a personal preference...all of the videos I've seen looked beautiful, dispite it being a recording of a monitor o.O
LMFAO!! "How many mobs should you kill before you have to rest?" WTF!?!?!?!?!?!?! Uhhhhh, these questions are easily answered by ANYONE with ANY MMO experience, yet the devs actually have to ask these questions? 4.5 years and they still don't have a handle on how many mobs one kills before resting, or how they will implement quests?
Like I have said before, I will indeed try this game, but now I am mainly wanting to try it out of morbid curiousity... Will it really flop this bad? I predict another half-baked launch ala EQ2...
Keyword being saw. Dink saw the game.
There are 3 reviews out there right now that bash VG, just by watching it, when in fact at E3 you could get a hands on playing it.
I saw EQ1 about 5 years ago. It looked ugly, and I thought it would suck. The result? What I saw had nothing to do with the actual game, and the game turned out to be a success.
Keyword being saw. Dink saw the game.
There are 3 reviews out there right now that bash VG, just by watching it, when in fact at E3 you could get a hands on playing it.
I saw EQ1 about 5 years ago. It looked ugly, and I thought it would suck. The result? What I saw had nothing to do with the actual game, and the game turned out to be a success.
Yes, but EQ's success had less to do with the fact that it was a good game, but more to the fact that it was one of a VERY few MMO's out there. Especially if you wanted the graphics to not totally suck.
The bar has been raised MUCH higher since EQ launched. The market has grown exponentially. People expect much more out of a game.
ANY game that launches now has to step up. Stability, Content and Fun. Nobody's going to get away with $OE's theory of "Send out a broken game and fix/destroy it later. Vanguard must wow them out of the gate like WoW did.
It'll be interesting to see.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Keyword being saw. Dink saw the game.
There are 3 reviews out there right now that bash VG, just by watching it, when in fact at E3 you could get a hands on playing it.
I saw EQ1 about 5 years ago. It looked ugly, and I thought it would suck. The result? What I saw had nothing to do with the actual game, and the game turned out to be a success.
Yes, but EQ's success had less to do with the fact that it was a good game, but more to the fact that it was one of a VERY few MMO's out there. Especially if you wanted the graphics to not totally suck.
The bar has been raised MUCH higher since EQ launched. The market has grown exponentially. People expect much more out of a game.
ANY game that launches now has to step up. Stability, Content and Fun. Nobody's going to get away with $OE's theory of "Send out a broken game and fix/destroy it later. Vanguard must wow them out of the gate like WoW did.
It'll be interesting to see.
Yet if that were true, then the doomsayers who predicted EQ's demise every time a new game came out would have been right and EQ would be dead or nearly dead right now. Fact is, it is doing much MUCH better than any other game of it's era and some good games that have come out since. UO and AC both have very small populations, as does DAoC (which is a game most people including me speak highly of, but few play). EQ was popular because it was good, and it is still popular because, even though it is just a shadow of the game it was, it is still the best PvE game on the market.
We expect it but we sure don't get it. Not one game since EQ has held my interest like EQ did. I played it for almost 3 years, and when I was playing I had NO time to come to MMORPG.com for even 2 seconds because I was so consumed by it. Remember how you said SWG was the stars in the sky for you Shayde? Well that's how UO and then EQ was for me. Nothing has touched EQ for ME yet, that's where our opinions will always diverge.
I, now more than ever, can't wait for Vanguard.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Yet if that were true, then the doomsayers who predicted EQ's demise every time a new game came out would have been right and EQ would be dead or nearly dead right now. Fact is, it is doing much MUCH better than any other game of it's era and some good games that have come out since. UO and AC both have very small populations, as does DAoC (which is a game most people including me speak highly of, but few play). EQ was popular because it was good, and it is still popular because, even though it is just a shadow of the game it was, it is still the best PvE game on the market.
n2sooners - First, your original argument that "Naysayers were wrong about game X, so they will be wrong about game Y" is ridiculous. It is so illogical that pointing out the exact problems in the flawed logic becomes a difficult task.
People's predictions about games are valuable only if they add useful information, and I don't know about others, but I was not even making a prediction about the game. I saw and played Vanguard (saw a long demo and played very briefly) at E3. There were huge problems with combat animations and the graphics look very brown, jagged, and old. Also, many of the features that were promised for the game were not displayed due to the fact that they aren't in yet.
Beta-testers are not logging in because the game is a boring featureless shell with huge content gaps and overall low production values.
These are all BAD things - but we won't know if the game is any good until it launches. Hopefully Sigil's association with SOE will be to the game's benefit - meaning it will get the time and money necessary to make Vanguard playable - and maybe even fun.
Yet if that were true, then the doomsayers who predicted EQ's demise every time a new game came out would have been right and EQ would be dead or nearly dead right now. Fact is, it is doing much MUCH better than any other game of it's era and some good games that have come out since. UO and AC both have very small populations, as does DAoC (which is a game most people including me speak highly of, but few play). EQ was popular because it was good, and it is still popular because, even though it is just a shadow of the game it was, it is still the best PvE game on the market.
n2sooners - First, your original argument that "Naysayers were wrong about game X, so they will be wrong about game Y" is ridiculous. It is so illogical that pointing out the exact problems in the flawed logic becomes a difficult task.
People's predictions about games are valuable only if they add useful information, and I don't know about others, but I was not even making a prediction about the game. I saw and played Vanguard (saw a long demo and played very briefly) at E3. There were huge problems with combat animations and the graphics look very brown, jagged, and old. Also, many of the features that were promised for the game were not displayed due to the fact that they aren't in yet.
Beta-testers are not logging in because the game is a boring featureless shell with huge content gaps and overall low production values.
These are all BAD things - but we won't know if the game is any good until it launches. Hopefully Sigil's association with SOE will be to the game's benefit - meaning it will get the time and money necessary to make Vanguard playable - and maybe even fun.
I usually try to give posts like that one (not the OP's, but the one he linked to) a credible chance by reading them all the way through. Not this time.
I am in no way a fanboy of this game...just heard about it a few weeks ago and was against playing it do to SOE's involvement, until my guildmates talked me into it. I will more than likely be buying this game when it comes out, but if it were to crash and burn before than, I wouldn't be heartbroken.
Having said that, this first complaint that guy had was that they are shipping the game incomplete, quoting the development staff as saying that not "all" the world would have interesting content in it. I had read that statement myself on there website before seeing this post, and I had the same thought when I read it the first time as I did this time....Duh.
One of the big draws of this game is that it is a large world that we can have an effect on...I.E. build houses and vehicles, for one thing. I plan on using some of that empty space to build a city with my guildmates, so I for one am glad that its there. I do not need my hand held for me from start to end, otherwise I'd be playing certain other games, which I won't mention to avoid a flamefest
Seriously though, MMO's are supposed to continue to develop as time goes on. I'm glad theres some empty space...I wouldnt have to wait for major patch updates or expansions that will cost money to get something new...with the empty space there will be the option for them to give us small updates with interesting content in the space already provided, instead of have to add a whole bunch of new code. The world will be there, as will, im sure, enough stuff to keep us occupied for a good while. IMHO, its a smart move on their part.
The combat system is still undergoing major changes (OMG!!!! they are changing things in beta???). The final animations aren't even in the game yet (OMG!!!! the game isn't final yet in beta???). AA doesn't yet work in the game (OMG!!!! The graphics aren't done in beta???). And yes, there are many features that aren't yet in the game after all IT IS IN BETA. And not only is it just in beta, it is in the second stage of a FIVE stage beta. Guess what, the game won't be done when beta three starts either. It will be close when beta four starts, and should be mostly done when beta five starts, but it is still in beta TWO.
BTW, there are still a lot of beta testers playing, and many more who would play if they had the comps they actually said they had when they applied for beta, or if they could get their friends into the beta to play with them (a complaint I have heard is common with many beta testers). People just aren't used to beta testing a game this early. Most that have tested were in on phase three or four of a four stage beta, so being in on stage two of a five stage beta is just too much. They don't want to test the game, they want to play it.
Right. . . but if you weren't a fanboy, you'd just except that the beta is not going great even 10 months into beta as useful information and realize that it may or may not improve.
Hopefully, it will improve. I don't think anyone wants another MMO flop. It is cool to get more games that are actually fun and good.
Right. . . but if you weren't a fanboy, you'd just except that the beta is not going great even 10 months into beta as useful information and realize that it may or may not improve.
Hopefully, it will improve. I don't think anyone wants another MMO flop. It is cool to get more games that are actually fun and good.
10 months? Better than SWG's 3 years.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0