ABOLISH THE I.R.S.!!!!!!

Puoltry

Interested?

Click the linky for more info Fairtax.

Dabble

yes i agree.

Where do i sign?

lardmouth

Noooo!  The people of the United States of America can not be trusted with their own paychecks! We must support government redistribution of our paychecks to show that we aren't greedy, evil, penny pinchers!

Umm, sorry. 

Does this plan touch on government spending?  Will the revenue keep up with government spending at it's current rate?  Or, will it depend on a dramatic down sizing of the government and social programs?  I do like the consumption tax, sounds very promising.  However, unless it can be counted on to at least match the same tax revenues, how are you going to deal with a balanced budget?

Dabble

DOWNSIZE!! DOWNSIZE!! DOWNSIZE!! DOWNSIZE!!

It is shocking the amount of waste and redundancy our federal government has.

By getting rid of the IRS, doesn't mean you would get rid of the State level taxes.

saydur

Oh, wow, you guys fell for this big time.  I did at one time myself, until I realized the regressiveness of a "flat tax"

First, spending comparison.  Sure, there's a spending allowance, which allows the poor and middle class basic needs before taxation.  After that, the taxes jump up to a point where the middle class in particular pays more.  Everything you buy will have hefty taxes added on.  The rich won't be taxed on money they invest, or money they just don't spend.  This would tax those who used the money for consumption, what fuels the American economy.

Second, State/local taxes.  State and local taxes hit the poor and middle class disproportionately as it is.  They want to attract the rich, so they cut taxes on the rich.  It's gotta come from somebody though.

Third, simplicity.  If people could easily figure out how much they were being taxed for what, they'd work any loopholes that are left that much more, and people would be that much angrier.  Sadly, being confused about taxes is probably what keeps us from being angrier about taxes, even though ours are some of the lowest in the industrialized world.

In short, flat tax is a horrible idea.  It will destroy the middle class, dividing it into the higher end of the poor, and the lower end of the rich.  Most on the poor side.

Puoltry

The fair tax is NOT a flat tax it is a consumption tax do a bit more research next time.

Did you even click the link?If you did so it would have taken you to a website with a ton of info.

Umbrood

I am all for flat tax, here in sweden we have taxes on bloody everything, and many of them different.

Its a bloody jungle.

15% consumption tax.

15% income tax ( or whatver is fair and gives the same amount of income as the old system ).

Not one single exception, can be no loop hooles if there are no loops.

This would benefit everyone, well not perhaps the people that previously worked the system to pay no or almost no taxes, but everyone else.

Tax lawyers would go extinct in one blow, ( and lets face it, any law that reduces the amount of lawyers is a good one ).

Everything you buy, 15% tax.

Everything you earn, 15% tax.

Regardless if you are a company, a person, a dog, a flower or any ANY thing else.

noname12345

Everyone watch the trailers for this movie coming out in July. http://www.freedomtofascism.com/
They prove that IRS is a fraud. People nowadays are finding out and NOT paying their income tax! You don't have to even despite the IRS.

saydur

I've done plenty of research.  Consumption tax works out the same as a flat tax to those who spend what they earn.  The only ones who benefit from consumption tax over flat tax are those who can afford to save notable portions of their income.  I refer to them fairly interchangably mostly because they result in the same thing- Taxes are the same percentage regardless of income.  Sounds fair, but local/state taxes ensure it is not.

Again, flat tax is hardly fair in the face of regressive state taxes, but consumption tax is even worse.  The American economy is driven by consumption, taxing that will result in less stuff being bought.  Whether it's from necessity (Tax the stuff directly, and it becomes more expensive in relative terms, resulting in less being bought) or from aversion to being taxed on it, if less stuff is bought, it's going to wreak untold havoc on the economy.  As it is, we're overstretched on usurious credit rates just to fund our rampant spending habits and maintain an inflated economy.  Trying to convince people to save money is difficult, but it also needs to be done slowly as to not disrupt our situation.

It sounds like a good idea on the surface, but unless you're earning a high enough wage that you can afford to save money and invest it for other purposes, a consumption tax will only increase the tax burden on you.  The only way to lower the tax burden is to cut government programs, and they have this nasty habit of cutting things like healthcare and veteran's benefits before cutting budgets on cruise missiles and pork-barrel projects.

The website is pure propaganda.  I'd hope you'd recognize that much.

Wakizashi

Taxes are good.  They pay for things that are good for the people as a whole.  Granted I oppose income taxes and curiously they are nowhere to be talked about in the Constiution.  However, it benefits everyone in the long run.

Puoltry

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Originally posted by saydur
I've done plenty of research.  Consumption tax works out the same as a flat tax to those who spend what they earn.  The only ones who benefit from consumption tax over flat tax are those who can afford to save notable portions of their income.  I refer to them fairly interchangably mostly because they result in the same thing- Taxes are the same percentage regardless of income.  Sounds fair, but local/state taxes ensure it is not.

Again, flat tax is hardly fair in the face of regressive state taxes, but consumption tax is even worse.  The American economy is driven by consumption, taxing that will result in less stuff being bought.  Whether it's from necessity (Tax the stuff directly, and it becomes more expensive in relative terms, resulting in less being bought) or from aversion to being taxed on it, if less stuff is bought, it's going to wreak untold havoc on the economy.  As it is, we're overstretched on usurious credit rates just to fund our rampant spending habits and maintain an inflated economy.  Trying to convince people to save money is difficult, but it also needs to be done slowly as to not disrupt our situation.

It sounds like a good idea on the surface, but unless you're earning a high enough wage that you can afford to save money and invest it for other purposes, a consumption tax will only increase the tax burden on you.  The only way to lower the tax burden is to cut government programs, and they have this nasty habit of cutting things like healthcare and veteran's benefits before cutting budgets on cruise missiles and pork-barrel projects.

The website is pure propaganda.  I'd hope you'd recognize that much.

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God forbid we should actually NOT rely on the government to save money.Hey did you know that this is an actual bill in congress?

Wow that is some pure propoganda.Perhaps if you had done the research you would have known that.

I found this it explains it a bit more in depth:

Library of congress

I find it amazing that we live in a country that is based on freedom to do whatever we want.Yet we still rely on big govt to do everything for us.I for 1 would like to control my own destiny and not rely on govt for anything if i could.

To me its obvious you didnt do any research on the subject.Everything you claimed in your statement is actually opposite of the flat tax.

Aldaron

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Originally posted by Wakizashi
Granted I oppose income taxes and curiously they are nowhere to be talked about in the Constiution.  However, it benefits everyone in the long run.

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Article 1, Section 9. Oh they're talked about...Probably not in the sense you'd suspect though: No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.

seabass2003

I wouldn't mind a flat tax, maybe I would pay more but at least I would know for sure that rich people are paying even more than me.

Example: My income 100,000 yearly at 15% I would pay 15,000.

             Rich SOB income 1,000,000 yearly at 15% would pay 150,000.

I hope my math is right but anyways you guys understand where I am coming from.

reavo

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Originally posted by Wakizashi
Taxes are good.  They pay for things that are good for the people as a whole.  Granted I oppose income taxes and curiously they are nowhere to be talked about in the Constiution.  However, it benefits everyone in the long run.

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Our country ran for years after it's conception through a growth very successfully without taxes. 

Taxes are not good.  You're taking income from people forcefully.  How is that ever good?  And not only that, but it causes division amongst the people you think you're helping.  It makes everyone fight over getting something from the government and then causes one group to have resentment for the other because they feel they got more.

The government is not our keeper.  Nor should it be there to prop people or corporations up.  It's there to defend us and to promote commercial activity through things like roadways, waterways, and railways. 

If the government were to get out of stealing our money, then our economy could take off, businesses could be more competitive in this world market, there would be more participation by the community in community affairs instead of counting on the government to take care of everything, and there would be less social engineering going on.

TAXES ARE BAD BAD BAD!!!  

Wakizashi

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Originally posted by reavo

Originally posted by Wakizashi

 
  It's there to defend us and to promote commercial activity through things like roadways, waterways, and railways. 

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How do you propose they pay for these necessary services without taxes?

noname12345

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Originally posted by Wakizashi

Originally posted by reavo

Originally posted by Wakizashi

 
  It's there to defend us and to promote commercial activity through things like roadways, waterways, and railways. 

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How do you propose they pay for these necessary services without taxes?

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By begging us for MONEY! If they want to study the mating rituals of a fly and they come asking for money...what will we say? NO! But ever since the Federal Reserve now they just go borrow money from them and now they get all the money they want and they tax us for it!!!

They say "Oh gosh, now we're in debt...we need to tax you"