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WoW sinking in the site ratings

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  • damian7damian7 Member Posts: 4,449


    Originally posted by lsutig

    Originally posted by Minsc

    Originally posted by Pride7

    Originally posted by Vulturnus
    well IMO the fact that WoW has huge numbers playing the game has nothing to do with quality. And the rating chart shows that. IMO DAoC, GW, EVE and such are better games, plain and simple.
    If you said "the rating chart on this site", rating charts on much larger sites like Gamespot & IGN show WOW to be the #1 MMO.


    Well the game is designed for console kiddies, so that would make sense.


    heh if anyone actually comes to this site to get info on any MMORPG they are selling themselves short. as you can see by this thread and the 1500 others, this is a site for disgruntled MMORPG'rs not MMORPG players.

    while i wouldnt use any site for reviews on MMORPG or opinion polls on online games i certainly wouldnt put this one at the top.


    ironic -  the post right before yours praises wow and talks about what a great game it is.

    there's a lot of posts in all the forums that talk about how great the different games are.  there's also posts that talk about ways folks wish they'd improve games.  then there's posts that talk about why a game is crap.

    sort of like, you go to these forums for advice on a build for your toon in a game, or to vent about stuff in the game that irks you (and don't have to worry about it being a one-sided war against you with nothing but fanbois mindlessly attacking you like a mob of angry lemmings), or to just find out stuff.

    then you have people that don't really have an opinion on any game...  on a site that's all about people's opinions on games... 

    could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?

  • MinscMinsc Member UncommonPosts: 1,347


    Originally posted by necbone
    i'm still having lots of fun with wow......its so fun...gettin my 60shammy epic'd out and grinding honor in bg's is fun too...my guild raids every other nite and i really dig it...

    the people playing dont care what you haters say about the game, we're obviously enjoying ourselves.... what other game am i going to play? theres nothing better than wow, and its been that way since i was in beta 2yrs ago....

    if yur not playing wow right not, yur sleeping and it must suck to play that other shit out there....wow has definitely set the new standard, believe it if you want to




    Simple minds are easily amused I guess.
  • baffbaff Member Posts: 9,457


    Originally posted by lsutig
    while i wouldnt use any site for reviews on MMORPG or opinion polls on online games i certainly wouldnt put this one at the top.



    I found the opinion poll to be broadly in line with my tastes.

    Also if you know what you are "not looking for" you can look out for it in all the complaints and weed out the weaker games.

    I didn't buy DDO based on the reviews in this forum. I still think that was a reasonably smart move.

  • variusvarius Member Posts: 32
    WoW lovers need to stop using site ratings from Gamespot and IGN as some sort of justification that WoW is the best MMORPG out there. Internet review sites don't actually review games on a perfect "how much fun is it?" scale. Sites like Gamespot give games like WoW high scores because they know that the most amount of people are going to play it. Gamespot or IGN would have to be stupid to give a game like WoW (a game created by a company with a very large fan base) a low score. If a Blizzard fanboy played WoW and loved it, then logged onto Gamespot only to see that it had recieved a score of 7 or below, that person would stop going to that site for game reviews. It is only on websites such as MMORPG.com that you can get true reviews from actual gamers who don't care what other people think of them. Sure many people will give a game like WoW a 10 if they love it or a 0 if they hate it, but it balances out. If a game drops in the charts because a lot of people are giving it very low scores, there's definitely a reason for it.

    Now, I don't like alienating people or acting like a jerk, but im going to go right out and say right now that if WoW is the only MMORPG you've ever played, you have no right whatsoever to have an opinion on it as an MMO. You can claim that WoW is a fun game, if you must, but with respect to the MMORPG genre, WoW is a joke.


  • GreyhammerGreyhammer Member Posts: 29

    I will say this again.

    The GAMING community and the MMORPG community are two different things.

    GAMING Community != MMORPG Community.

    You can be a member of both communities, but they are very different and have different sets of expectations. The popularity of WoW brought large components of each community together, with the result being the many critiques of WoW's community and the many posts not understanding why those critiques occur.

    Basically, there are now three general types of people that play MMO's:

    The Guild Wars type (More gamer than MMOer. Clear cut end goals, match PVP almost completely separate from the game world (Game World = Lobby), pwnage. Role-play rare or even disparaged. Short time to max level.)

    The WoW type (Hybrid - the MMO gateway drug and thus the standard for newer MMO players. Some freedom, but still fairly linear with a gameworld unaffected by the players. PVP still focuses on pwnage and statistics, and still is more of a "feature" rather than a true part of the world. Some role-play.)

    The EVE Online type (The MMO purist- the virtual world. The setting may be in deep space, but it is the true heir to the unabashed freedom of games like UO.  PVP is simply a part of life in that world, not a goal or a feature. This type of game forces people to RP whether they know it or not.)

    Players of the three types disagree on many things and, over the course of these disagreements, become entrenched in their positions.

    That's my take, anyhow.

    The Greyhammer Timeline (Games Played > 1 month)

    1999 >-- Everquest -- Dark Age of Camelot -- Everquest -- Anarchy Online -- Everquest -- Star Wars Galaxies -- Final Fantasy XI -- Everquest -- World of Warcraft -- Everquest 2 -- EVE Online --> 2006

    Playing Navy Field (www.navyfield.com) and waiting for Vanguard.

  • RekitRekit Member Posts: 53


    Originally posted by varius 

    ... if WoW is the only MMORPG you've ever played, you have no right whatsoever to have an opinion on it as an MMO. You can claim that WoW is a fun game, if you must, but with respect to the MMORPG genre, WoW is a joke.


    I agree, also greyhammer some excellent points

    You can not give anything at all a honest or non-bias rating without a control, or something to compare it to. It might be a great game, and you might feel it hard to beat as you enjoy it so much, and hold on the highest regard. Someone who has only played WoW in the MMO genre and rates the game so high, are you rating the game or what the game brings to you that you have not experienced before. If you are rating for what this game brings to you in a new gaming experience, then you are voting for the genre of general MMO not the game itself.

    Having a MMO rating board on a website who has intrests in one particular MMO, and is only worried about thier product, and visited by only people who play, and are interested in that particular game, the result of a vote on its popularity will be completley bias and have no control what so ever

    image
    Eve Trial <- Try 14 days of Eve for FREE
    Im against SOE

  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182


    Originally posted by Minsc

    Originally posted by necbone
    i'm still having lots of fun with wow......its so fun...gettin my 60shammy epic'd out and grinding honor in bg's is fun too...my guild raids every other nite and i really dig it...

    the people playing dont care what you haters say about the game, we're obviously enjoying ourselves.... what other game am i going to play? theres nothing better than wow, and its been that way since i was in beta 2yrs ago....

    if yur not playing wow right not, yur sleeping and it must suck to play that other shit out there....wow has definitely set the new standard, believe it if you want to

    Simple minds are easily amused I guess.


    says the one with 615 hours on Counter Strike
  • lomillerlomiller Member Posts: 1,810


    Originally posted by varius

    Originally posted by damian7


    actually, the comment baff made which i was referring to was his "no end game - boring" one (about eve).  uo has no end game.  it was the first popular mmo, followed by eq (which introduced the garbage we know as raiding).  so my correlation was more along the lines of end game vs no end game.


    Wrong. UO has endgame. You just expect the game to hand the endgame over to you on a silver platter (ala World of Warcraft). UO was fun because you made your own game. Your endgame could be scouting for IDOC houses, running a vendor, raiding an enemy guild, PKing, Anti PKing, socializing, etc. You just think it doesnt have an endgame because there isn't a button you click on that says "Click here for endgame". Just because UO didnt dumb itself down (at first) to cater to the lazy or unimaginative players that overpopulate the MMO genre these days doesnt mean it has no endgame. You have tons of more fun in UO after maxxing out your skills, whereas in WoW, once you hit 60 the game becomes boring as hell. Now im using WoW as an example im not implying that you're defending WoW or anything vs UO.


    Look at his statement in context.  EVE has the same style of endgame as UO, so what he is saying is that if EVE “has no endgame” as baff maintains then neither did UO.  In truth they both have a good endgame, like anything it may not be for everyone but it’s still an endgame as you so accurately explain.

  • Jerek_Jerek_ Member Posts: 409

    I think greyhammer's post describes exactly where these conflicts between players come from, although it seems even more complex to me when you consider EQ and UO at the same time.  I was part of the UO side myself ( I noticed a mention of IDOC hunting in this thread someplace-  memories there heh)

    UO had the stonger sense of community, a wider acceptance of PvP (at first), and skill based character progression, where EQ introduced the grind, importance of items and gear, and i think more subscriptions.  The EQ model of MMO has progressed into WoW, the UO model.. well I haven't played it myself but maybe your right, Eve. Factor in the higher popularity of the EQ style to begin with, and Eve's lack of in store shelf appearance (not as important as it once was but still a factor), Eve's age, and Eve's setting, futuristic VS fantasy and all, and it becomes even more clear to me why the market is currently dominated by WoW.

    I think if a well funded, high quality game comparable to WoW but following in UO's footsteps was made now these issues might reslove themselves.

    BTW, just because someone doesn't like WoW, it doesn't mean they are a 'hater'

    and just because someone does like WoW, it doesn't mean they are 'lazy and unimaginative'

    its called OPINION.

  • MinscMinsc Member UncommonPosts: 1,347


    Originally posted by Gameloading

    Originally posted by Minsc

    Originally posted by necbone
    i'm still having lots of fun with wow......its so fun...gettin my 60shammy epic'd out and grinding honor in bg's is fun too...my guild raids every other nite and i really dig it...

    the people playing dont care what you haters say about the game, we're obviously enjoying ourselves.... what other game am i going to play? theres nothing better than wow, and its been that way since i was in beta 2yrs ago....

    if yur not playing wow right not, yur sleeping and it must suck to play that other shit out there....wow has definitely set the new standard, believe it if you want to

    Simple minds are easily amused I guess.


    says the one with 615 hours on Counter Strike


    Yeah it's nice being able to go home from work at lunch and pwn noobs for an hour. Keeps me from going insane when my coworkers do stupid stuff to their computers.
  • Parsifal57Parsifal57 Member Posts: 267


    Originally posted by necbone
    i'm still having lots of fun with wow......its so fun...gettin my 60shammy epic'd out and grinding honor in bg's is fun too...my guild raids every other nite and i really dig it...

    the people playing dont care what you haters say about the game, we're obviously enjoying ourselves.... what other game am i going to play? theres nothing better than wow, and its been that way since i was in beta 2yrs ago....

    if yur not playing wow right not, yur sleeping and it must suck to play that other shit out there....wow has definitely set the new standard, believe it if you want to




    If you'd have stopped with the second paragraph i'd have thought fine, someone who still enjoys wow.

    But the last paragraph wehere you insult everyone who is not playing wow changed that opinion to viewing you as a 14 year old still going through puberty who can't get round the idea that people do have different likes and dislikes to you and don't have to do what you do to enjoy themselves.

     Just for the record I played WoW from Open Veta/launch to March this year at which point it had just become old, too much faction grind, poor PvP, Blizzard seemingly not knowing what they are trying to acheive since the game is beginning to vary from the original vision (quite drastically in some areas), there is still no Hero classes, PvP is all  but meaningless and the end game (If an MMO can be said to have one) is targetting a more and more specialized hardcore.

    If the expansion relives some fo the boredom for the less committed players and the new content looks interesting enough i may come back, but that would mean that Blizzard have to revamp crafting so it is a meaningful part of the game, include guild/personal housing and allow much more customization options to the look of a character
  • TreborLockeTreborLocke Member Posts: 72

    I play both WoW and EVE Simultaniously.

    Both games have their problems however the only reason I'm playing WoW right now is because of my friends.  If you aren't part of the d00d sp34k1ng crowd which the game houses, you see none of the content.  The world in World of Warcraft is unchangeable and leads you on by the nose (something that I feel goes against what an MMO should really be all about).

    I was very happy to find EVE because it met a similar kind of style to Ultima Online (A game which I still hold dearest to my heart).  EVE is a sandbox genre game (Exactly how an MMORPG should be in it's pureist form).  Not everyone likes this kind of gaming, especially those in the 13-17 age group, because it doesn't direct you to do anything.  You are absolutly free to manipulate the market, people, choose what you want to do (It is paradise for someone with ADD), and the skill system while time based, is no measuring stick as to how deep you can go in to the game or how powerful a person you can kill (Some very inexperienced players can take down a person with a lot of skill points compared to them with great ease). 

    Don't get me wrong, WoW is a good game to get togethor with your friends.  Easy to pick up, which is why it sells so much.  But EVE offers more as to character development and if you play PnP RPGs you'd understand how important character development for a game really is when determining if a game is good or not.  Sure you'll have us say sometimes "Hey! Hey! Look! I just got a +2 Vorpal Sword!", but overall it's the development of our characters we are most interested in (I happen to have a level 12 bard which has gone throught the campaign world and actually became the duke for a small duchy through negotiating a deal with it's previous ruler).

    True Gamers strive for worlds which are immersive and ever changing.  World of Warcraft changes very little and unless you're a child with lots of time on your hands you never experience "immersive" either.

    *Steps off his soap box*

    *Edit: Fixed a few spelling errors...Doh!*

    (1997) UO --> EQ -> Runescape -> DAoC -> WoW -> EVE + WAR (2008)

  • CelestianCelestian Member UncommonPosts: 1,136


    Originally posted by GameloadingSimple minds are easily amused I guess.

    says the one with 615 hours on Counter Strike




    CS pvp is far better than WoW. I can see why he'd play it for that alone. I dunno why you seem to think that makes him a simpleton. He just has good tastes.

  • AranStormahAranStormah Member Posts: 278
    WoW will keep dropping untill it puts in something else than blatant timesinks. Burning Crusade should get it back in the top five again untill people reach the new level cap :P
  • xxGodofWarxxxxGodofWarxx Member Posts: 20
    Yes I definalty think that WoW needs a better PvP system. Hopefully they will fix that cause i personally Love world of warcraft. But I dont want to see it go down the drain because it has a ton of potential and it should be use. CMON Blizzard!! I love your world of warcraft game but you need better PvP

    Mess wit the best,
    Die like the rest

  • hamburgermanhamburgerman Member Posts: 13
    even if wow is sinking in ratings on this site, it doesn't mean that it is losing popularity. polls are not factual evidence and can be biased or misleading.
  • damian7damian7 Member Posts: 4,449


    Originally posted by TreborLocke

    I play both WoW and EVE Simultaniously.
    Both games have their problems however the only reason I'm playing WoW right now is because of my friends.  If you aren't part of the d00d sp34k1ng crowd which the game houses, you see none of the content.  The world in World of Warcraft is unchangeable and leads you on by the nose (something that I feel goes against what an MMO should really be all about).
    I was very happy to find EVE because it met a similar kind of style to Ultima Online (A game which I still hold dearest to my heart).  EVE is a sandbox genre game (Exactly how an MMORPG should be in it's pureist form).  Not everyone likes this kind of gaming, especially those in the 13-17 age group, because it doesn't direct you to do anything.  You are absolutly free to manipulate the market, people, choose what you want to do (It is paradise for someone with ADD), and the skill system while time based, is no measuring stick as to how deep you can go in to the game or how powerful a person you can kill (Some very inexperienced players can take down a person with a lot of skill points compared to them with great ease). 
    Don't get me wrong, WoW is a good game to get togethor with your friends.  Easy to pick up, which is why it sells so much.  But EVE offers more as to character development and if you play PnP RPGs you'd understand how important character development for a game really is when determining if a game is good or not.  Sure you'll have us say sometimes "Hey! Hey! Look! I just got a +2 Vorpal Sword!", but overall it's the development of our characters we are most interested in (I happen to have a level 12 bard which has gone throught the campaign world and actually became the duke for a small duchy through negotiating a deal with it's previous ruler).
    True Gamers strive for worlds which are immersive and ever changing.  World of Warcraft changes very little and unless you're a child with lots of time on your hands you never experience "immersive" either.

    *Steps off his soap box*

    *Edit: Fixed a few spelling errors...Doh!*


    uo, eve, swg if they'd make it old school and fix the things blatantly wrong with it (gcw for one), ryzom perhaps, depending on how their sandbox modules turn out, shadowbane kinda. 

    but yeah, i totally agree with you -- better to rule in hell than be a slave to some demented moron from eq that only knows how to raid and since mommy let him live in the basement for free for 35 years, he COULD devote his life to nonstop raiding...

    could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?

  • damian7damian7 Member Posts: 4,449


    Originally posted by Parsifal57

    If the expansion relives some fo the boredom for the less committed players and the new content looks interesting enough i may come back, but that would mean that Blizzard have to revamp crafting so it is a meaningful part of the game, include guild/personal housing and allow much more customization options to the look of a character



    and if you throw in item decay/loss i'll give you a hearty "amen brother, amen!"

    could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?

  • skeete12dieskeete12die Member Posts: 16

    blizzard should start focusing more on starcraft 2 and diablo 3. 

  • gnomexxxgnomexxx Member Posts: 2,920

    http://www.joystiq.com/2005/06/01/reviews-of-mmo-games-are-fundamentally-flawed/

    Reviews of MMO Games are Fundamentally Flawed


    Posted Jun 1st 2005 10:55AM by Vladimir Cole


    Blizzard's World of Warcraft game has received high marks from all of the
    gaming publications for its ease of use and for its newbie-friendly game
    design, but there's a fatal flaw in these reviews. They invariably focus on the
    early experience because it takes several months before players are able to
    reach the level at which they are ready for the so-called "end-game
    content."

    A quick primer on end-game content. In WoW (and most other large MMOs)
    players band together into groups so that they can access content that no
    single player could do on his own. Some of the content in WoW requires raids—40
    top-level players all working together in a coordinated, organized fashion.

    Large-scale raiding typically emerges months after the release of an
    MMO product, long after most reviews are written and published. As a result,
    reviews of MMOs are worthless at describing content that typically occupies 80%
    of the long-term player's time. It's like a car review that only writes about
    the experience of parking the car; a movie review that describes only the
    opening credits; or a restaurant review that only describes the appetizers.

    This probably won't change until intelligent games consumers (like you who
    read this blog!) start asking reviewers to give us the goods on end-game
    content in MMOs.



    ===============================
    image
    image

  • xxGodofWarxxxxGodofWarxx Member Posts: 20
    yeah they should focus more on diablo 3 and starcraft.. those still are sorta great games. but i always will love WoW its like my favorite game ever. WoW FTW!!!!!

    Mess wit the best,
    Die like the rest

  • ZeroDepthZeroDepth Member Posts: 142
    WoW is a good game I'll admit it.

    The group instances are unique, as well as the pvp system, the game has introduced a lot of new features not fully integrated in other mmorpg's yet.

    However, these same features have downsides. The 3-5 hour long instances, waiting times for battlegrounds, pvp rankings requiring a rediculous amount of pvping in order to maintain your rank, and more.

    As mentioned time and time again, WoW is popular partly due to it's unique gaming features, but MOSTLY due to it's already popular fan base due to WC III, SC, and D2. I've never seen a WoW commercial on t.v. but it probably spread by word of mouth very fast due to indirectly advertising to it's already large player base.

    It's no surprise WoW is as popular as it is, but people give WoW too much credit to it's popularity simply because it is supposedly the "perfect" mmorpg game.
  • acmtalkacmtalk Member Posts: 405
    I think WOW is great if it is your first MMORPG, But if u played a more "complex" one (like UO, or swg pre-cu) , WOW just SUX!!

    image

  • RokanRokan Member Posts: 4
    The success of WoW has little to do with the previous games in Blizzard's history.  I doubt many people consider it to be perfect, its simply the best game out there right now.  This isn't saying that it;s the best thing since sliced bread.  More like democracy, all other attempts at an alternative just fare even worse in reality.

    The first MMO I really got into was FFXI, being a fan of the Square games of yore.  The inablity to access the endgame without speaking fluent Japanese, the inane economy, and the incredible investment of time needed was nothing like I expected.  I gave up on tha and took a look at EVE online, looking forward to jump into the corporations that let you experience the fullness of the game there.  Yet people don't want new players, and the only way you can gain the skills required to apply to any corporation that advertsises itself in complete sentences is to wait around and let CCP bill you for a few months.

    Its hard to reach a balance in a perputual game world, people want to be able run through it, yet they have to accomplish little enough that there is still a motivation to keep on playing.  By this measure, WoW is too easy, people rush through the game in a fraction of the time needed to see and do everything in another.  The PvP system is broken (Blizzard has admitted this), raiding is seen as the only thing to do at 60, all other classes but your own are overpowered, but you don't pay $15 a month to put up with *this*.  People invest time in there characters, and so having their character die to someone else's is a horrid, unforgivable thing.

    Since I'm insane, I'll just try to close this on a pont since I'll never reach one otherwise.  Play a game you like, better yet, talk it over with your friends, and play a game all of you would like.  Nearly all MMOs requires coordination, quite a few like Guild Wars require it to even be fun past the initial new game phase.  Don't get too attached to whatever you do in it, its just a game. 


  • GalaxyClassGalaxyClass Member Posts: 5

    I have played WOW since beta and just stopped last
    month.  I played on 3 different servers, though 85% of my time has been on
    my last one, which I logged the most hours. I was lucky enough to find a good
    server and a great bunch of people to play with, was a member of the best guild
    on the server (in our eyes at least) and was lucky enough to be the first
    people in our faction to clear all the major instances; Molten Core, Blackrock
    mountain etc.  Anyone who says the game is easy, just because leveling to
    60 doesn’t take a year of pain in the ass grinding is a fool.  High level
    instances n the game are great fun to learn and takes a lot of very dedicated
    people to complete.  The pvp is also great fun; will raiding a town or in
    grouped battlegrounds. 


    I have no problem with people having different opinions on things, but most of
    the hatred towards this game (even though it is still has 5 times as any
    players as other MMO's) comes from people who I think fall into one of the
    following categories.




    - First.  They haven’t played the game at all. They think playing popular
    games, watching popular movies, listing to popular music or reading popular
    books is wrong and that anything popular has to be bad and because they want
    the perception that there 'cool' for being 'unlike' the masses.  


    - or second.  They played the game, but were so bad at it.  Either
    bad, or were so ignorant no respectable guild would give them the time of day so
    they had no chance to do all the fun and changeling things end game WOW has to
    offer.




    I loved WOW.  I still think it is the best MMO to ever be put out, I
    simply had my fill. 


    [Edit] I'm back playing Lineage 2



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