Ah, burnout! What a great topic! Of course, it just begs to become a reason to gripe, as well, but you know, sometimes we need to get that stuff off of our MMOG-lovin' chests, don't we? So, assuming I've done all that already, and that I concur with 90% of what has been said before, I'll skip right to what needs to be done to fix it:
1) Randomness: While I understand that content, in general, is not going to dynamically change each time I play through the same mission with a new character, I'd like some element of randomness, if possible, including different map layouts, different spawn points, perhaps different dialogue generated by the various mobs that you run across. I feel that the City of X games do a good job of this, but that it could be done better. Games tend to become less tedious when I don't know exactly what to expect, assuming I get to the endgame on one character and decide to start over. This also encompasses character generation, power selections, and so forth. Basically, the more ways I have to make my character and my experience unique, the longer I'm going to play without burning out.
2) Reward community-building activities: You know, grinding can get very tiresome? What am I saying? Of course you know that! So, the answer is to create areas that promote community, that actually reward it. Let's say you create a "bar" area, and it is always monitored by a GM, and you give people lots of places to hang out, dance, chat, and so forth. For me, finding nice people in SWG as an entertainer was a real treat. There were those that appreciated a good sense of humor, and entertainers who went out of their way to truly entertain, by putting together great flourishes and actually chatting up the patrons. How about if you awarded a bonus that increased over time that added to your xp and money rewards (and perhaps even item drops) that increased in both percentage and duration the longer you were being social? The GMs would be around to ensure that abusive people were quickly dealt with.
3) Richness: By this, I mean avoid time-consuming, flavorless activities and design player activities and goals to be exciting, meaningful, and a pleasure to behold. Make the characters actions dynamic and a joy to watch over and over again, make missions and goals creative. In other words, do all in your power to make the person playing feel they are in a living, breathing world, even if the content is static. I don't think about how close I am to my next level if I'm immersed.
These things would all go a long way to making me feel more like an active part of a world, and less like one of a few thousand hamsters running like mad on a wheel, but getting nowhere.
I have to agree with the editorial and most of the responses I've read so far,been there done that is a bit overused here (SWG,WOW,EVE,DAoC,Ryzom,RYL,D&D, etc.) .
I too am an older player and a perpetual grind,timesink ,unless it's well done and seems useful,is not what I'm looking for in a new game. SWG for 2 years ,left after NGE and deleted all swg including my Jedi from my comp ,which hurt, was fun for a long time while it lasted ,beta'd several others but found nothing I liked.
I still believe a good Battletech MMO with individual character development,skill system and mission out the wazoo are possible and PvP would be simple enough , take a mission from the PvP Agent,get your lance together meet on the dropship by "X" time for your mission vs. another Player faction/house and see who comes out on top or can complete the mission of which there could be MANY types to do ,various limits could be set in place including meeting on time as the main one or you miss your ride and your lance gets creamed.
Personal opions there but that's what this forum is for. I will keep looking and trying mew games and applying for beta's to test still ,solo content is a big one for me, crossing my fingers that Turbine does a better job with LOtRO than the way D&D was handled.
Honestly in some ways I believe games have gone backwards! I'm 37 years old and I started playing MMO's back in BBS days.. old text base games. But I played the father of all the games we play now and them were Lands of Kesmai and Kingdom of Drakkar! Now them were games to be proud of. I beta tested them both and played them when released and played on KoD as Molitar and Malaac for those that might of played them games. I also had a barbarian but forgot his name now. Now let's discuss the fun aspects of KoD that NOBODY else has come close to accomplishing.
1. Planning! Planning! Planning! When you first entered the game you entered in what was like an inn just some tables with avatars of those seated at the table discussing plans! This was tremendous fun even as a low player I could listen to the plans of those above me discussing hunts to get the vamps! Now these were real and true strategies it brought out the AD&D feel and I'll go more into that later.
2. Every class had it's role! It took someone of every class to do boss hunts! Healers and multiple healers to keep the entire party alive! Mentalist with their shields, partial invisibility, partial invulnerability! Paladins with their powerful attacks and armor. Thieves with their superb backstab. Every class had it's role! No class was left lacking! They were so important in later missions the higher ups helped you to obtain the gear to help you level.
3. Hit points was the grind factor and that factored into you needed hit points at higher levels to fight vamps that sucked out experience and hit points! It took careful planning to do these and what was the reward for vamps the BEST martial art gloves their is in the game! Why would others risk helping martial artist get these gloves? Because they were required for the next boss so they in return could get their best item in the game! It required team work!
4. Their was no real limit to how many could group but their was very very careful planning and strategy. The runs to these lairs was very dangerous but once they got their they could set a twig that would recall them their when they died! They would die dozens of times to accomplish their mission. You really felt proud when you finally obtained that item! And remember they had to do it more than once to get everyone their gear.
Now back to planning. I remember sitting at the table and they discussing their battle plans for the boss we called reggie who had the best Cloak in the game! This cloak was awesome armor when worn. Now to do Reggie required those in the front when entering the lair to only step 1 hex at a time more and they would be dead they needed to keep as many of raiders on the screen when they first spotted him because he was dangerous.. They had to discuss every move.. what every persons roles was.. The dangers of the vamps.. The strategy involved. And Barbarians were one of the most respected classes of the game they could go berserk pumping their hit points if I remember correctly to like 4x their normal amount and their strength also went way up. But their defense went way way down. So it took mentalists, yes plural to cast spells to help defense, healers constantly healing the barb and hopefully the random attack that the boss would do on other party members. And if the boss switched targets paladin and others trying to get them to switch to them with better defense than the healers and mentailist. And when the boss was killed the barb had to fight to get out of the lair with himself because it took a while for berskerk to wear down many a party members were killed by a berskerk barbarian!
The real grind of this game end up not just being level to get a couple more spells that would help you and not just a bunch of spells for fluff, but also to max hit points. It was a die roll type whe
n you leveled to hw much hit points you got at level. But their was a hit point seller not easily to get to in the beginning that yhou could buy hit points at. Hit points were cheap at first but the more you buy the more costly it would get to purchase a single hit point but was required for the vampire hunts. This was the ONLY game where when I leveled I really felt I accomplished something because every single level made you that more useful to the higher ups! I remember when a mentalist hit level 16 and got partial invisibility you were a great asset to even those nearly twice your level! That was one spell that was hoarded for almost every major boss battle! So spells were not tons of spells but one or two that would remain as powerful as when you first got them.. very rare was it to have a spell that was called greater invisibility tho their was that was quite a distance tho from the first so the first version remained useful for a very long time.
But remember this was the forefather of games like utlima online, everquest, ect so the graphics are old outdated 2D graphics and the game is free but run on donations. So now you can buy hit points, ect locker, ect all for some actual money so the game isn't quite what it was back than the strategist are not their anymore. The old gamers like I am not their anymore but it remains one of our BEST memories for online gaming ever. And you can sample it to see how the game played it was an absolute blast in the past and if a game was able to come out of it with the strategy, planning, and gameplay that one had with today's 3D capability it would be a real accomplishment. Too much mundane grind, grind, grind with no strategy or planning in mind! The real problem with today's games is they have been DUMMBED DOWN!
Try Eve-Online if you want pure pvp. That's all it has become now. Unfortunately downtimes are still long with to much time spent on space travel. The addition of jump clones has helped, but being able to use them only every 24hrs kinda sucks.
As far as something that the mmo devs could add tom make things more interesting. I think crafting could be made much more fun and interesting than it is in all games.
Galaxies let you build houses, but they basically all looked alike and were boreing. Maybe something that you could buy materials and craft them into what you want with various colors and textures. Something almost like blender, but not that difficult. More customization is what I am trying to say. Age of Empires has made a start with city building, but I'm thinking way outside their box. I would like to have wireframes as blueprints to start with and then go from there, addding my own colors texures and such that would be available from in game merchants. I thnik then you would have a game with all kinds of imaginative places to explore. Second life is trying this, but I want better graphics and a real game attached.
Ok, listen. The problem with MMOPRGS nowadays is that they are built to keep us playing and paying monthly. How have the developers achieved this? By making us grind, grind, grind. I almost consider them a scam, telling us that new patches are coming and then delaying them etc etc. I currently only play one MMORPG and its Ultima Online on a friends server (its the 1999 version).
That version is important for a few reasons. Because Ultima Online is skill based, once your character is developed your bascially done grinding. This allows you to then play the game ! There isnt uber loot so you don't have to spend hours wasting time trying to find items to keep up with the masses. Now you might say, what do you do then if you character is developed and you don't need to hunt 24/7 for uber items.
Content and player run events. MMOPRGS have a major flaw right now, they concentrate too much on building your character and trying to get that character the most uber loot possible. This is the wrong idea.
What made Ultima Online so powerful? Ok, we all developed our characters and got some good equipment, usually player made was adequate. So basically even new players could catch up rather quickly. Then we would focus on building guilds, towns or participating in some faction wars. The content delivered to us and the content we developed for ourselves gave the game its staying power. NOT the grind ! NOT the UBER loot !
You don't want to have to play all the time to keep up with other players. That should not be the objective of these online games. They should all be built for CASUAL play. People will still play for years and they won't burn out or get frustrated in having to do every freaking quest and playing 24/7 to keep up. Thats what these games should be.
MMOPRGS are a scam ! They build huge time sinks to keep us paying and playing without any real rewards or communitiy interaction. I for one will not be playing MMORPGS anymore and have decided to play some solo RPGS like elder scrolls oblivion for now. I can play when I want and don't have to feel like I have to be on day and night. What they should be making is a game that might take a few months to get your character set and then let the content and community interaction carry the game. Ulitma Online perfected that in the late 90's. Of course that game went to crap once they tried to make it more Uber Loot oriented and took out the reliance on community run events. I think the best MMOPRGS now involve some stuggle between different factions, battle over land or towns etc. Where online interaction is first and character development is 2nd. I also think a well rounded MMOPRG to capture a stong player base needs to focus on all aspects. PVE, PVP, Crafting, Housing, Quests, Rares, Content etc. Thats what Ultima had. There was always something to do. We didnt depend on Uber Loot or having to develop your charcter thru a level system year after year. Thats the wrong direction.
I scan this site weekly for any MMOPRGS I might be interested in, but I'll keep passing on them until something comes around that deviates from the norm of grind grind grind. This si when a MMO becomes too much and when most of us get turned off. SWG was good in the begining too, once you got your character developed, which didnt take much of your time. You were then able to get involved in the galacitc civil war and into guilds and town creation. I loved that idea. Once they started putting out the leveling system and having to wait for new expansion to take you up and up the level grind , the game really turned me off and I quit. Level 80 you had to go here, level 90 you had to buy this expansion and go there. Blah Blah Blah, stuipid.
Great article, and i agree with the overall tone of boredom with MMOs, but also wanting a good new one.
I played EQ1 for 4 plus years and loved it. What was best about it was the overwhelming newness of the world, then later great guilds and the people I played with. High end raiding was fun for awhile, but mostly spending time and laughing with friends during the events til you cried (or spit Milk out your nose).
Eventually four or six hours online some evenings (2 hours just waiting for folks to log in) became unfun and no longer worth it. I quit during the GOD expansion.
Played beta in Wow and then Wow for a year or so, played on a pvp server to play with my bf. Eventually I got tired of being blasted before I entered the world lol, and the feeling of hostility that seemed to permeate . Pve by that time was old news. Bf is still doing the honor grind and raiding.
Eq2 for one year, I enjoyed it a lot. Eventually it became so old I couldn't stand to look at Maj Dul one more time. In general tho, the game was really good.
So now I don't play any MMO. I'm counting a lot on Vanguard. The feeling of advancing and achieving with a char plus friendships is what I like the most.
Think that the point of view posed is an interesting one but really quite old in terms of its criticisms of mmporpg's. The 'grind gripe', is a common element to all these types of games and quite frankly its at the heart of the way the game works.
The logic of it is quite simple: I played Counterstrike for 4 1/2 years ran a clan entered tornaments and actullay did rather well in the particular game. we trained for 4 hours a day in an evening and to miantain the level of 'twicth' required to play at a high level was a serious undertaking. On top of this i designed no less than 20 plays per side/ per map =equating to 100's all told. Isnt this fps 'grind'? - implicit on becoming good is the need to train on maps over and over and over, get timings spot on - grenades in just the right spot at the right time - have coordinated attacks and defences with mutiple plays for any given round.
Why am i telling you this, well quite simply it shows that in any online game that has a competetive element there is a need to invest time and skill in getting to the top. As a 'twitch' based game fps games reuqire just as much time to become good at, in an mmo where there is no 'twitch' element how can the designers seperate those that are playing to achive all the game offers from those that are playing casually. They put in raid elements that require huge sinks of time/ effort and management by people who are willing to give this time to achieve the ultimate rewards of the game. Hardcore - is what you would probably call these people - and they are willing to sacrifice hours upon hours to reach the pinnacle of what the game offers.
At the end of the day these game fill an important niche on teh gaming market in so much as there are some people who have oodles of time to spend playing games and are looking for a game that rewards the input of time above anything else- mmo's do this - they suck your bones dry for time but reward you with the best gear and highest ranks available.
If you dont like grinding there are loads of really good single player games that you can play that avoid this element, but for me personally mmo's with all there grind and treadmilling are an addictive mix of what i once found in CS but replace twitch with intelligent thinking.
Quite simply dont like em dont play em! But dont sit there trying to ponder how they can be all things to all people cos they just cant - they are a genre and fill an element of gaming that masses of people have taken to their hearts. PVP mmo's PVE mmo's - makes no dfifference they all take time and commitment if you wanna see the big shiny X at the end of the rainbow, if you expect to get it on 2 hours a week playing time - forget it. If your casual you can enjoy these games but dont bemoan the designers who are looking after those that want more!
Footnote: I play wow casually btw and am just happy playing - i have 3 lvl 60's and just get kicks form playing with friends but have no 'green eyes' when i see the epic clad peoplein ironforge - i know i wont get the gear and quite frankly am happy with my lot and refuse to input the time to get em - try to be content and see that in any game 'grinding' is an element.
Repetition of levels to improve times on car games etc etc - its as old as the hills and will be with us until true freeform game content generation on the fly is possible. And actually people like the fact that for repeating something they learn tricks to make it easier etc - so even then i dont think it will work - would you play a 2 hour dungeon - die then redo it knowing that it would have completely changed so your prior knowledge would be to no avail in helping you succeed the next time - in fact thinking about it - this is just another time sink.
Dumb argument really - its a game - play for fun/ or fame - your personal choice - make it - and be happy - peace
Originally posted by Relith Originally posted by Isaak I imagine a game where DM's are playing a game that looks like Battle for middle earth 2, or starcraft. They're controling mass movements of NPC armies to help protect the realm. Perhaps their title in game is King or God or some such that fits what they are doing in this persistant state world. They need resources, land etc to overcome the enemies. The individual playing the RPG is playing a game that looks like an FPS. They are then given tasks to aid in this effort. They are heros and have abilites far above that of the common soldiers that are controlled by the DM's and therefore have a great effect in the overall storyline that the DM is creating. So a cross between FPS and RTS, how about it?...all on an MMO scale? In my mind this creates an RPG.
There is actually a game like this but not an MMO. I forgot the name of it but the idea really stood out to me. Just wish I remembered the name
lol... god help you.
--people who believe in abstinence are unsurprisingly also some of the ugliest most sexually undesired people in the world.--
no offense but reading your "article" felt more like reading some rpg players blog post. next time spend less time telling us how bored you are w/ rpg's and more time doing analysis like its going to be read by people that dont know you.
Games i'm playing right now...
"In short, I thought NGE was a very bad idea" - Raph Koster talking about NGE on his blog at raphkoster.com
Good article. I started playing WoW with a group of four friends when it started in Europe and while I burned out first, it was interesting to see the next drop out shortly after hitting 60, the next two continue with alts and now only one is left playing regularly. It just shows how people have different threshholds for persisting with inane repetition.
From my reading up on gaming trends, I can see MMOs going in two main directions, neither of which are going to arrive in the next generation, but might appear a generation or two after that.
DYNAMIC:
First is the dynamic, procedural game-world, where player actions drive the action and shape the environment. The gameplay and story will be an emergent result of the game's free-form nature. Every type of player will be able to create their own niche, because the mechanics are flexible enough to allow them to do so. I expect this will be the natural evolution of existing MMOs and hopefully the arrival of games like Will Wright's Spore will help illustrate to other designers how that kind of game can be made to work.
EPISODIC:
The second direction will follow on from Valve and Ritual Entertainment's experiments with episodic content for Half-Life 2 and SiN. Rather than trying to develop content that can sustain players 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, this type of MMO could operate more like a TV series. Each week a new 2-hour episode is released. Into that two hours is packed an intense burst of gameplay and story (like an interactive instalment of 24 or Lost). This style would offer crafted stories that ensured excitement and emotional depth, without requiring a persistent gameworld in which an event was either endlessly repeatable or a one-off that was easily missed - eg. LOTR's Battle of Helm's Deep would only take place in episode five, but after the day of release, anyone could log on and play out that episode as many time as they liked. The trick here would be in allowing an episode's ending to be flexible enough to allow players' actions to determine the outcome (Saruman's army takes the keep before Gandalf arrives, for example), but linear enough to allow the story to continue. The emphasis would be more on the experience than hidden die-rolls, the two hour instalments would be more accessible to a mass audience than 24 hours gaming and, ultimately, the ride would be paid-off by a big, climactic ending (or cliff-hanger leading into season 2, depending on the developer's sensibilities).
Of course, combinations of the two could also come about. Me, I like the idea that instead of sitting passively in front of the TV every night watching my favourite shows (okay, I don't do this, but if I did...), I could be playing the latest episode of my favourite game series along with my friends each night. And when they were done, we could log on to one of these persistent, dynamic worlds to chat about it.
Nice article, and decent discussion to go with it as well (albeit too long, I gave up after page 7).
Anyway, what I agree with is the opinion expressed early on in this thread that the MMO public seems to be amongst the least informed consumer groups I know of. The article bases of off just a few mainstream products, the very same that a majority of the replying posters here seem to have limited themselves to for some reason.
After playing UO avidly at start, and on and off during the last years in between checking out just about every MMO-like game finable on the internet, I've seent that there is alot more then just EQ, DAOC and WoW clones out there.
I primarily like the sandbox agmes where it concerns long term gameplay attraction. Currently I therefore play Eve-Online, which I think offers by far the most freeform and long-term challenging gameplay out at this time, while also allowing for more casual play when you feel like that. The fact that after about 8 years I'm finally permanently rid of elves, dwarves and silly barbarians has turned into an unexpected plus as well
Anyway, I recommend that people switch games more often. The early play of most MMO's is the most fun part actually, when immersion is at its maximum and challenges seem unlimited. With most that dies out after a month or two-three, with some it last a lot longer. Just look around beyond the entry-level WoW's of this age for gods sake !
Not to jump on the SOE hater list. But reading this article about endgame pvp and luring the players to continue to play. SOE had this by the balls, and just let go. Anyone that played SWG and had a jedi or BH before the NGE crap, knows what i mean when i say the PVP ROCKED! I remember 20 min fights that would put me into a adrenline pumping sweat.
You could have 10 differant players playing the same class of lets say Smuggler, and every one of those characters could be differant and diverse, and that goes for all 32 professions that used to be in the game.
SOE knows not what they screwed up.
Within a couple months of leveling you can have a character that would be hunted by other players at any givin time, and be able to fight off those Bounty hunters in battles that i will personality never forget and put those fights on the highest point of my list of memories of my gaming experiences.
On the flip side you could make a Bounty hunter in less then a couple months or you could craft and really feel like you where part of a world that had a living and breathing economy.
I'm 30, so in the same boat as the author. It's very time-consuming to play a high-level character in an MMO. I want to be able to log in, do a dungeon crawl, and log out. No sitting around for an hour while the raid group forms, no waiting and waiting for the mob to pop, no hours doing the raid, etc. It was one thing when I was 23 playing EQ, I was young and the chemicals in my brain hadn't settled yet and so I was easily addicted to 6+ hour play sessions, but I can't do that anymore.
Unfortunately for me, and the author, WoW does not seem to be having any problems. 5 millions subscribers? They raised the bar by about 10x (EQ had 500,000 subscribers?) and I am not holding out hope that MMOs will swing towards the moer casual player. The *average* WoW player is highly dedicated and can offer a lot of time to the game, and the game works for them.
One bright spot: WoW did not become the king of MMOs by copying other games. It innovated and tweaked. I hope future MMOs do the same rather than trying to be WoW clones.
I'd like an MMO more akin to the action you get on Battlefield 2. You can log in, play for an hour at the edge of your seat, and then log off. Your character makes progress with exp, but you're never really worried about that. The game is just too much fun in the mean time. I want to be able to log into my MMO and defend my city from attack, or jump into a dungeon crawl because a new mob has been placed in an old dungeon and he needs to be eradicated. MMOs need to be more dynamic like this, I think. It shouldn't even be about getting to level 70. I should just be about logging in, and doing what you can at your level for a few hours, and getting a brand new experience the next day. Along the way maybe you'll hit 70, but the fun factor should be the same at any level.
Comments
Ah, burnout! What a great topic! Of course, it just begs to become a reason to gripe, as well, but you know, sometimes we need to get that stuff off of our MMOG-lovin' chests, don't we? So, assuming I've done all that already, and that I concur with 90% of what has been said before, I'll skip right to what needs to be done to fix it:
1) Randomness: While I understand that content, in general, is not going to dynamically change each time I play through the same mission with a new character, I'd like some element of randomness, if possible, including different map layouts, different spawn points, perhaps different dialogue generated by the various mobs that you run across. I feel that the City of X games do a good job of this, but that it could be done better. Games tend to become less tedious when I don't know exactly what to expect, assuming I get to the endgame on one character and decide to start over. This also encompasses character generation, power selections, and so forth. Basically, the more ways I have to make my character and my experience unique, the longer I'm going to play without burning out.
2) Reward community-building activities: You know, grinding can get very tiresome? What am I saying? Of course you know that! So, the answer is to create areas that promote community, that actually reward it. Let's say you create a "bar" area, and it is always monitored by a GM, and you give people lots of places to hang out, dance, chat, and so forth. For me, finding nice people in SWG as an entertainer was a real treat. There were those that appreciated a good sense of humor, and entertainers who went out of their way to truly entertain, by putting together great flourishes and actually chatting up the patrons. How about if you awarded a bonus that increased over time that added to your xp and money rewards (and perhaps even item drops) that increased in both percentage and duration the longer you were being social? The GMs would be around to ensure that abusive people were quickly dealt with.
3) Richness: By this, I mean avoid time-consuming, flavorless activities and design player activities and goals to be exciting, meaningful, and a pleasure to behold. Make the characters actions dynamic and a joy to watch over and over again, make missions and goals creative. In other words, do all in your power to make the person playing feel they are in a living, breathing world, even if the content is static. I don't think about how close I am to my next level if I'm immersed.
These things would all go a long way to making me feel more like an active part of a world, and less like one of a few thousand hamsters running like mad on a wheel, but getting nowhere.
I have to agree with the editorial and most of the responses I've read so far,been there done that is a bit overused here (SWG,WOW,EVE,DAoC,Ryzom,RYL,D&D, etc.) .
I too am an older player and a perpetual grind,timesink ,unless it's well done and seems useful,is not what I'm looking for in a new game. SWG for 2 years ,left after NGE and deleted all swg including my Jedi from my comp ,which hurt, was fun for a long time while it lasted ,beta'd several others but found nothing I liked.
I still believe a good Battletech MMO with individual character development,skill system and mission out the wazoo are possible and PvP would be simple enough , take a mission from the PvP Agent,get your lance together meet on the dropship by "X" time for your mission vs. another Player faction/house and see who comes out on top or can complete the mission of which there could be MANY types to do ,various limits could be set in place including meeting on time as the main one or you miss your ride and your lance gets creamed.
Personal opions there but that's what this forum is for. I will keep looking and trying mew games and applying for beta's to test still ,solo content is a big one for me, crossing my fingers that Turbine does a better job with LOtRO than the way D&D was handled.
Honestly in some ways I believe games have gone backwards! I'm 37 years old and I started playing MMO's back in BBS days.. old text base games. But I played the father of all the games we play now and them were Lands of Kesmai and Kingdom of Drakkar! Now them were games to be proud of. I beta tested them both and played them when released and played on KoD as Molitar and Malaac for those that might of played them games. I also had a barbarian but forgot his name now. Now let's discuss the fun aspects of KoD that NOBODY else has come close to accomplishing.
1. Planning! Planning! Planning! When you first entered the game you entered in what was like an inn just some tables with avatars of those seated at the table discussing plans! This was tremendous fun even as a low player I could listen to the plans of those above me discussing hunts to get the vamps! Now these were real and true strategies it brought out the AD&D feel and I'll go more into that later.
2. Every class had it's role! It took someone of every class to do boss hunts! Healers and multiple healers to keep the entire party alive! Mentalist with their shields, partial invisibility, partial invulnerability! Paladins with their powerful attacks and armor. Thieves with their superb backstab. Every class had it's role! No class was left lacking! They were so important in later missions the higher ups helped you to obtain the gear to help you level.
3. Hit points was the grind factor and that factored into you needed hit points at higher levels to fight vamps that sucked out experience and hit points! It took careful planning to do these and what was the reward for vamps the BEST martial art gloves their is in the game! Why would others risk helping martial artist get these gloves? Because they were required for the next boss so they in return could get their best item in the game! It required team work!
4. Their was no real limit to how many could group but their was very very careful planning and strategy. The runs to these lairs was very dangerous but once they got their they could set a twig that would recall them their when they died! They would die dozens of times to accomplish their mission. You really felt proud when you finally obtained that item! And remember they had to do it more than once to get everyone their gear.
Now back to planning. I remember sitting at the table and they discussing their battle plans for the boss we called reggie who had the best Cloak in the game! This cloak was awesome armor when worn. Now to do Reggie required those in the front when entering the lair to only step 1 hex at a time more and they would be dead they needed to keep as many of raiders on the screen when they first spotted him because he was dangerous.. They had to discuss every move.. what every persons roles was.. The dangers of the vamps.. The strategy involved. And Barbarians were one of the most respected classes of the game they could go berserk pumping their hit points if I remember correctly to like 4x their normal amount and their strength also went way up. But their defense went way way down. So it took mentalists, yes plural to cast spells to help defense, healers constantly healing the barb and hopefully the random attack that the boss would do on other party members. And if the boss switched targets paladin and others trying to get them to switch to them with better defense than the healers and mentailist. And when the boss was killed the barb had to fight to get out of the lair with himself because it took a while for berskerk to wear down many a party members were killed by a berskerk barbarian!
The real grind of this game end up not just being level to get a couple more spells that would help you and not just a bunch of spells for fluff, but also to max hit points. It was a die roll type whe
n you leveled to hw much hit points you got at level. But their was a hit point seller not easily to get to in the beginning that yhou could buy hit points at. Hit points were cheap at first but the more you buy the more costly it would get to purchase a single hit point but was required for the vampire hunts. This was the ONLY game where when I leveled I really felt I accomplished something because every single level made you that more useful to the higher ups! I remember when a mentalist hit level 16 and got partial invisibility you were a great asset to even those nearly twice your level! That was one spell that was hoarded for almost every major boss battle! So spells were not tons of spells but one or two that would remain as powerful as when you first got them.. very rare was it to have a spell that was called greater invisibility tho their was that was quite a distance tho from the first so the first version remained useful for a very long time.
But remember this was the forefather of games like utlima online, everquest, ect so the graphics are old outdated 2D graphics and the game is free but run on donations. So now you can buy hit points, ect locker, ect all for some actual money so the game isn't quite what it was back than the strategist are not their anymore. The old gamers like I am not their anymore but it remains one of our BEST memories for online gaming ever. And you can sample it to see how the game played it was an absolute blast in the past and if a game was able to come out of it with the strategy, planning, and gameplay that one had with today's 3D capability it would be a real accomplishment. Too much mundane grind, grind, grind with no strategy or planning in mind! The real problem with today's games is they have been DUMMBED DOWN!
Try Eve-Online if you want pure pvp. That's all it has become now. Unfortunately downtimes are still long with to much time spent on space travel. The addition of jump clones has helped, but being able to use them only every 24hrs kinda sucks.
As far as something that the mmo devs could add tom make things more interesting. I think crafting could be made much more fun and interesting than it is in all games.
Galaxies let you build houses, but they basically all looked alike and were boreing. Maybe something that you could buy materials and craft them into what you want with various colors and textures. Something almost like blender, but not that difficult. More customization is what I am trying to say. Age of Empires has made a start with city building, but I'm thinking way outside their box. I would like to have wireframes as blueprints to start with and then go from there, addding my own colors texures and such that would be available from in game merchants. I thnik then you would have a game with all kinds of imaginative places to explore. Second life is trying this, but I want better graphics and a real game attached.
Ok, listen. The problem with MMOPRGS nowadays is that they are built to keep us playing and paying monthly. How have the developers achieved this? By making us grind, grind, grind. I almost consider them a scam, telling us that new patches are coming and then delaying them etc etc. I currently only play one MMORPG and its Ultima Online on a friends server (its the 1999 version).
That version is important for a few reasons. Because Ultima Online is skill based, once your character is developed your bascially done grinding. This allows you to then play the game ! There isnt uber loot so you don't have to spend hours wasting time trying to find items to keep up with the masses. Now you might say, what do you do then if you character is developed and you don't need to hunt 24/7 for uber items.
Content and player run events. MMOPRGS have a major flaw right now, they concentrate too much on building your character and trying to get that character the most uber loot possible. This is the wrong idea.
What made Ultima Online so powerful? Ok, we all developed our characters and got some good equipment, usually player made was adequate. So basically even new players could catch up rather quickly. Then we would focus on building guilds, towns or participating in some faction wars. The content delivered to us and the content we developed for ourselves gave the game its staying power. NOT the grind ! NOT the UBER loot !
You don't want to have to play all the time to keep up with other players. That should not be the objective of these online games. They should all be built for CASUAL play. People will still play for years and they won't burn out or get frustrated in having to do every freaking quest and playing 24/7 to keep up. Thats what these games should be.
MMOPRGS are a scam ! They build huge time sinks to keep us paying and playing without any real rewards or communitiy interaction. I for one will not be playing MMORPGS anymore and have decided to play some solo RPGS like elder scrolls oblivion for now. I can play when I want and don't have to feel like I have to be on day and night. What they should be making is a game that might take a few months to get your character set and then let the content and community interaction carry the game. Ulitma Online perfected that in the late 90's. Of course that game went to crap once they tried to make it more Uber Loot oriented and took out the reliance on community run events. I think the best MMOPRGS now involve some stuggle between different factions, battle over land or towns etc. Where online interaction is first and character development is 2nd. I also think a well rounded MMOPRG to capture a stong player base needs to focus on all aspects. PVE, PVP, Crafting, Housing, Quests, Rares, Content etc. Thats what Ultima had. There was always something to do. We didnt depend on Uber Loot or having to develop your charcter thru a level system year after year. Thats the wrong direction.
I scan this site weekly for any MMOPRGS I might be interested in, but I'll keep passing on them until something comes around that deviates from the norm of grind grind grind. This si when a MMO becomes too much and when most of us get turned off. SWG was good in the begining too, once you got your character developed, which didnt take much of your time. You were then able to get involved in the galacitc civil war and into guilds and town creation. I loved that idea. Once they started putting out the leveling system and having to wait for new expansion to take you up and up the level grind , the game really turned me off and I quit. Level 80 you had to go here, level 90 you had to buy this expansion and go there. Blah Blah Blah, stuipid.
Great article, and i agree with the overall tone of boredom with MMOs, but also wanting a good new one.
I played EQ1 for 4 plus years and loved it.
Eventually four or six hours online some evenings (2 hours just waiting for folks to log in) became unfun and no longer worth it. I quit during the GOD expansion.
Played beta in Wow and then Wow for a year or so, played on a pvp server to play with my bf. Eventually I got tired of being blasted before I entered the world lol, and the feeling of hostility that seemed to permeate
Eq2 for one year, I enjoyed it a lot. Eventually it became so old I couldn't stand to look at Maj Dul one more time. In general tho, the game was really good.
So now I don't play any MMO. I'm counting a lot on Vanguard. The feeling of advancing and achieving with a char plus friendships is what I like the most.
Good Luck Sigil
Sil
Think that the point of view posed is an interesting one but really quite old in terms of its criticisms of mmporpg's. The 'grind gripe', is a common element to all these types of games and quite frankly its at the heart of the way the game works.
The logic of it is quite simple: I played Counterstrike for 4 1/2 years ran a clan entered tornaments and actullay did rather well in the particular game. we trained for 4 hours a day in an evening and to miantain the level of 'twicth' required to play at a high level was a serious undertaking. On top of this i designed no less than 20 plays per side/ per map =equating to 100's all told. Isnt this fps 'grind'? - implicit on becoming good is the need to train on maps over and over and over, get timings spot on - grenades in just the right spot at the right time - have coordinated attacks and defences with mutiple plays for any given round.
Why am i telling you this, well quite simply it shows that in any online game that has a competetive element there is a need to invest time and skill in getting to the top. As a 'twitch' based game fps games reuqire just as much time to become good at, in an mmo where there is no 'twitch' element how can the designers seperate those that are playing to achive all the game offers from those that are playing casually. They put in raid elements that require huge sinks of time/ effort and management by people who are willing to give this time to achieve the ultimate rewards of the game. Hardcore - is what you would probably call these people - and they are willing to sacrifice hours upon hours to reach the pinnacle of what the game offers.
At the end of the day these game fill an important niche on teh gaming market in so much as there are some people who have oodles of time to spend playing games and are looking for a game that rewards the input of time above anything else- mmo's do this - they suck your bones dry for time but reward you with the best gear and highest ranks available.
If you dont like grinding there are loads of really good single player games that you can play that avoid this element, but for me personally mmo's with all there grind and treadmilling are an addictive mix of what i once found in CS but replace twitch with intelligent thinking.
Quite simply dont like em dont play em! But dont sit there trying to ponder how they can be all things to all people cos they just cant - they are a genre and fill an element of gaming that masses of people have taken to their hearts. PVP mmo's PVE mmo's - makes no dfifference they all take time and commitment if you wanna see the big shiny X at the end of the rainbow, if you expect to get it on 2 hours a week playing time - forget it. If your casual you can enjoy these games but dont bemoan the designers who are looking after those that want more!
Footnote: I play wow casually btw and am just happy playing - i have 3 lvl 60's and just get kicks form playing with friends but have no 'green eyes' when i see the epic clad peoplein ironforge - i know i wont get the gear and quite frankly am happy with my lot and refuse to input the time to get em - try to be content and see that in any game 'grinding' is an element.
Repetition of levels to improve times on car games etc etc - its as old as the hills and will be with us until true freeform game content generation on the fly is possible. And actually people like the fact that for repeating something they learn tricks to make it easier etc - so even then i dont think it will work - would you play a 2 hour dungeon - die then redo it knowing that it would have completely changed so your prior knowledge would be to no avail in helping you succeed the next time - in fact thinking about it - this is just another time sink.
Dumb argument really - its a game - play for fun/ or fame - your personal choice - make it - and be happy - peace
i think the ultimate problem is that most consumers want a dumbed down product...
i think swg had create character creation, great class diversity (ie not everything was combat)
players had to work together, the economy functioned completely through it.
instead, wow has 7 million subscribers because it's a dumbed down, non persistent, kill loot cycle.
blizzard stupefied the mmo, and look how everyone responded.
look's like were all screwed for a loooong time
--people who believe in abstinence are unsurprisingly also some of the ugliest most sexually undesired people in the world.--
lol... god help you.
--people who believe in abstinence are unsurprisingly also some of the ugliest most sexually undesired people in the world.--
Games i'm playing right now...
"In short, I thought NGE was a very bad idea" - Raph Koster talking about NGE on his blog at raphkoster.com
Good article. I started playing WoW with a group of four friends when it started in Europe and while I burned out first, it was interesting to see the next drop out shortly after hitting 60, the next two continue with alts and now only one is left playing regularly. It just shows how people have different threshholds for persisting with inane repetition.
From my reading up on gaming trends, I can see MMOs going in two main directions, neither of which are going to arrive in the next generation, but might appear a generation or two after that.
DYNAMIC:
First is the dynamic, procedural game-world, where player actions drive the action and shape the environment. The gameplay and story will be an emergent result of the game's free-form nature. Every type of player will be able to create their own niche, because the mechanics are flexible enough to allow them to do so. I expect this will be the natural evolution of existing MMOs and hopefully the arrival of games like Will Wright's Spore will help illustrate to other designers how that kind of game can be made to work.
EPISODIC:
The second direction will follow on from Valve and Ritual Entertainment's experiments with episodic content for Half-Life 2 and SiN. Rather than trying to develop content that can sustain players 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, this type of MMO could operate more like a TV series. Each week a new 2-hour episode is released. Into that two hours is packed an intense burst of gameplay and story (like an interactive instalment of 24 or Lost). This style would offer crafted stories that ensured excitement and emotional depth, without requiring a persistent gameworld in which an event was either endlessly repeatable or a one-off that was easily missed - eg. LOTR's Battle of Helm's Deep would only take place in episode five, but after the day of release, anyone could log on and play out that episode as many time as they liked. The trick here would be in allowing an episode's ending to be flexible enough to allow players' actions to determine the outcome (Saruman's army takes the keep before Gandalf arrives, for example), but linear enough to allow the story to continue. The emphasis would be more on the experience than hidden die-rolls, the two hour instalments would be more accessible to a mass audience than 24 hours gaming and, ultimately, the ride would be paid-off by a big, climactic ending (or cliff-hanger leading into season 2, depending on the developer's sensibilities).
Of course, combinations of the two could also come about. Me, I like the idea that instead of sitting passively in front of the TV every night watching my favourite shows (okay, I don't do this, but if I did...), I could be playing the latest episode of my favourite game series along with my friends each night. And when they were done, we could log on to one of these persistent, dynamic worlds to chat about it.
Nice article, and decent discussion to go with it as well (albeit too long, I gave up after page 7).
Anyway, what I agree with is the opinion expressed early on in this thread that the MMO public seems to be amongst the least informed consumer groups I know of. The article bases of off just a few mainstream products, the very same that a majority of the replying posters here seem to have limited themselves to for some reason.
After playing UO avidly at start, and on and off during the last years in between checking out just about every MMO-like game finable on the internet, I've seent that there is alot more then just EQ, DAOC and WoW clones out there.
I primarily like the sandbox agmes where it concerns long term gameplay attraction. Currently I therefore play Eve-Online, which I think offers by far the most freeform and long-term challenging gameplay out at this time, while also allowing for more casual play when you feel like that. The fact that after about 8 years I'm finally permanently rid of elves, dwarves and silly barbarians has turned into an unexpected plus as well
Anyway, I recommend that people switch games more often. The early play of most MMO's is the most fun part actually, when immersion is at its maximum and challenges seem unlimited. With most that dies out after a month or two-three, with some it last a lot longer. Just look around beyond the entry-level WoW's of this age for gods sake !
Not to jump on the SOE hater list. But reading this article about endgame pvp and luring the players to continue to play. SOE had this by the balls, and just let go. Anyone that played SWG and had a jedi or BH before the NGE crap, knows what i mean when i say the PVP ROCKED! I remember 20 min fights that would put me into a adrenline pumping sweat.
You could have 10 differant players playing the same class of lets say Smuggler, and every one of those characters could be differant and diverse, and that goes for all 32 professions that used to be in the game.
SOE knows not what they screwed up.
Within a couple months of leveling you can have a character that would be hunted by other players at any givin time, and be able to fight off those Bounty hunters in battles that i will personality never forget and put those fights on the highest point of my list of memories of my gaming experiences.
On the flip side you could make a Bounty hunter in less then a couple months or you could craft and really feel like you where part of a world that had a living and breathing economy.
I miss SWG.
Vexx
I'm 30, so in the same boat as the author. It's very time-consuming to play a high-level character in an MMO. I want to be able to log in, do a dungeon crawl, and log out. No sitting around for an hour while the raid group forms, no waiting and waiting for the mob to pop, no hours doing the raid, etc. It was one thing when I was 23 playing EQ, I was young and the chemicals in my brain hadn't settled yet and so I was easily addicted to 6+ hour play sessions, but I can't do that anymore.
Unfortunately for me, and the author, WoW does not seem to be having any problems. 5 millions subscribers? They raised the bar by about 10x (EQ had 500,000 subscribers?) and I am not holding out hope that MMOs will swing towards the moer casual player. The *average* WoW player is highly dedicated and can offer a lot of time to the game, and the game works for them.
One bright spot: WoW did not become the king of MMOs by copying other games. It innovated and tweaked. I hope future MMOs do the same rather than trying to be WoW clones.
I'd like an MMO more akin to the action you get on Battlefield 2. You can log in, play for an hour at the edge of your seat, and then log off. Your character makes progress with exp, but you're never really worried about that. The game is just too much fun in the mean time. I want to be able to log into my MMO and defend my city from attack, or jump into a dungeon crawl because a new mob has been placed in an old dungeon and he needs to be eradicated. MMOs need to be more dynamic like this, I think. It shouldn't even be about getting to level 70. I should just be about logging in, and doing what you can at your level for a few hours, and getting a brand new experience the next day. Along the way maybe you'll hit 70, but the fun factor should be the same at any level.