Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

The Official "We're Angry at SOE" thread

24567

Comments

  • LyrisiusLyrisius Member UncommonPosts: 19
    I don't hate SOE but I don't like them very much either.
    After what they did to SWG and the old players I just have a hard time trusting them, and that's the biggest reason I don't play EQ2 anymore.
    EQ2 is actually a really nice game, except for the instances and nerfes... ah well, I guess I'm just hurt.

    Sorry SOE, but you did it to yourselves.


  • RageMonsterRageMonster Member UncommonPosts: 120
    Fire smedley and the take his salary and hire real customer service reps and developers who want to make extra content and not nerf the game into oblivion.  SOE is the worst of the worst.

    1

  • katkallkatkall Member UncommonPosts: 39

    Good thing about SOE it takes games that some like and saves them from the junk heap of failed MMORPG's 

    Matrix should have died, SWG should have died,   Unfortunately SOE keeps mediocre-poor games on life support instead of letting them die a swift merciful death.

  • DeviraDevira Member Posts: 5

    I'm angry at SOE too!!

    I played EQ2 since around two months after it opened. Lots about the game was great, good graphics, gameplay, nice crafting and lots of variety. Grouping was fun and i really enjoyed my class (troubador). Over the course of the next 18mths everything changed completely.. roughly every three months or so i would find my class had been changed so much i had to completely relearn it. I persisted through sheer bloody-mindedness if nothing else, but recently decided enough was enough and cancelled.

    When i first rolled my troubador, we were one of the top classes for soloing and had a very respectable dps. This went back and forth through various live updates, and now we are arguably the worst soloing classes with very very low dps. Fine if that was what i wanted to play... but it wasn't. I'm not knocking class balancing, but putting all those hours of work into developing my character is frustrating when you end up with something completely opposite to what it was originally. I mean imagine in real life if you were a policeman for 20 years then got told you now had to be a nurse...

    EQ2 would still be great if SOE developed some kind of vision and stuck with it. I like to have some kind of consistancy in online games, too much messing about from SOE means i'll never go back now.

    And don't even get me started on the crafting revamp...

  • olddaddyolddaddy Member Posts: 3,356
    Well, I don't hate SOE, and understand what they did from a business sense was to chase the WOW market. My hope is they will recognize that Vanguard is a different market segment, and leave it alone to compete with the Age of Conan in the mature market. Teenie boppers (and I have 2, though I told them to get a job) are generation XS (excess). They want their fun, and they want it now. They blow through it, and are quickly bored, running back to mommy and daddy to buy them their next fun fix. A very fickle market segment that wants everything handed to them outright in the cradle for nothing. I played EQ 2 until I became too bored wth it as a dumbed down WOW clone. I was never concerned with hitting the level cap, I wanted relaxation, enjoyment, and escape from everyday reality. Let's see, when I come home from work, I can turn on the local news and hear about the murders, muggings, rapes, and robberies in the giant metropolis I moved 50 miles away from, then wait for the world news to see the story on who's killing whom today....or I can turn on the computer and escape all the real world bullshit by playing EQ 2. Example, my druid, Beka, is out alone exploring the waterfront area in Desert of Flames, when she comes across a magic bottle. Ah, we all know if she rubs the bottle a genie will appear, but what then...So she rubs it, there's a fun conversation, she's transported into the bottle and given some combat challenges. Boring, in the dumbed down EQ 2 she has a 95% chance of winning the combat challenges, but wait, I can put them on hold and explore the marvelous graphics inside the bottle. Darn, the harem girls are non-interactive, so I talk at them, and go through a series of e-motes, take screenshots of this really cool looking locale. Okay, fun over, back to complete the combat challenge (yawn), which Beka wins, hands down, no problem, no challenge. Guess what, Beka is offered a choice of 3 different magical doo-dads of super nerdiness. No deal I scream at the computer, I want a harem girl outfit in either teal, purple, or pink! Beka would look so hot walking around Freeport in a harem girl outfit. Not to be SOE screams back at me, the magical doo-dads of super nerdiness will help you hit your level cap, so that you can buy the expansion we are hyping for next year! Crap thinks I, just like real life, hurry up and level, I'm late, hurry up, gotta run, no time to smell the roses. Please leave Vanguard alone...pretty please....I really want to stop and smell the roses.
  • olddaddyolddaddy Member Posts: 3,356

    ...and now, the same story as above about the genie and the bottle as told thru the eyes of the 13 year old adolescent that is EQ 2's target audience....

    "Dude, I zoned into this cube dude, it was soooo cooool dude, all the sides were the same color. Dude, I had to waste 2,439 blobs to get to the boss dude and win the 'Greatsword of Major Nerdiness', dude, it was so cool, took me 5 minutes to complete."

    Why SOE even bothers to assign graphic designers to EQ 2 anymore is beyond me, the WOW refugees don't appreciate any of their work anyway. It's "dude, I'm at the entrance to Runnyeye, let's go get to the boss". then complain because the access quest to the Runnyeye end zone takes to long. If I could count the times I had to lead players by the nose to get the quests that were in between the begining and end of the Runnyeye dungeon....they run through and see nothing.

    Please place a warning on the front of the Vanguard box that says "Moms, game contains full frontal female nudity, not for your sons under 18 years old". Then you can assign the graphic artists from EQ 2 to Vanguard, and just let the bops grind away in single colored cubes. Randomize the colors though, they'll think it's graphics detail.

  • olddaddyolddaddy Member Posts: 3,356

    sorry for the rave, but it's hot here, and I have nothing to do as I await a decent MMORPG....so here's what I'd like to see from SOE and EQ 2:

    Rather than waunder into the Sprawl, walk around and thru the Giantslayer Bashers, pick one out, setup the best angle of attack, and eventually kill him while his buddies look on (yawn), why can't we try something like this:

    Envision a ship at sea, with a group of 6 playrs, NPC's on the oars and acting as crew on the deck (waundering non-aggro NPCs like the Giantslayer Bashers) when a sail is spotted (lookout heard yelling "sail off the port bow). A PC orders the Captain to bring the ship about, and to the beating of the oar drums the distance closes. The other ship spots us, catapults ring out, ballista shoot, fire arrows cloud the sky, PC archers shoot, around our heros NPC's drop, some PC's take damage, but still the distance closes. Ram, then grappling hooks go out (PCs can participate), both ships crew NPCs aggro to each other (Guild Wars does this with NPCs), and each sends boarders to the other's ship. PC's can jump to the other ship (spacebar, timing, not automatically easy), grab a rope hanging from the mast and swing over (Errol Flynn style) or stay and defend the ship. Vicious fight on blood soaked decks between NPCs with PC help, winner takes it all, captives for ransom, treasure, at least one ship sinks (didn't put out the fires, did we?).

    or, picture the party emerging onto a balcony overlooking a cavern. Down in the cavern the evil priest prepares the dagger to sacrifice the victim chained to the stone altar, while the evil acolytes look on, singing praises to the Dark One. The party leaps down, or swings down on ropes/black curtains, onto the altar. The priest/acolytes aggro as the party attempts the rescue of the victim. The melee breaks out....maybe the PCs can win this fight, maybe this time they have to break the chains and run for it with the victim. Experience is earned by successfully resolving the situation.

    This is what I'm talking about in making the game exciting. Not experience grinding to level, but feeling you're participating in a high fantasy adventure. Characters walk through the zone and trigger a situation, not a monster or a group of monsters. It's like writing a script, or a play, only the NPC vrs NPC comflict is real, and the outcome can be diferent each time the situation is triggered. If the PCs stand off too long trying to figure it out, or prepare a plan, the balance shifts against their side. Maybe the victim is sacrificed and a demon is loosed upon the players. Maybe have randomized situations triggered in that area for replayability, maybe randomize the trigger area also. Maybe next time there's no victim being sacrificed, but you swing down into an empty cavern, goofing around, and wind up in a gobin ambush (the little buggers were hidden in the room). Maybe the floor gives way and you plummet into a snake pit. Maybe random monsters patrol the area too, and the party can have unplanned for adds. Maybe the next update fills the cavern with water.

    Not all content has to be added in expansions, current content can be changed for variability. When the players know what to expect...(yawn). The Giantslayer bashers were there 18 months ago, and guess what, they're still there (yawn), only now they don't aggro (yawn). I can do the same quests with my new character that I did with my level 70 character, how exciting! (not). Replayability value - zippo - new content for high level characters is what you're depending on to keep the subscriptions up. But that new contend is "kill 10 squirrels like the ones in enchanted lands, but these just do more damage". (yawn).

  • DraenorDraenor Member UncommonPosts: 7,918
    heh, I had no clue that they did that with everquest, my experiences with SOE were my first three MMORPG's unfortunately, Everquest for the ps2, Planetside, and SWG, all three of which were huge disapointments.

    Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.

  • CelestianCelestian Member UncommonPosts: 1,136


    Originally posted by olddaddy


    Rather than waunder into the Sprawl, walk around and thru the Giantslayer Bashers, pick one out, setup the best angle of attack, and eventually kill him while his buddies look on (yawn),



    Try that today.

  • olddaddyolddaddy Member Posts: 3,356
    Hey, Celestian, I've only been gone a month, and about a month ago is when I went thru the Sprawl. So, what change did they make? Do the Giantslayers aggro again? Or are they replaced with something else? Is there a situational encounter along the lines of the high fantasy adventure concept I talked about, or a kill 10 of this, 15 of that change? Not arguing with you more like hoping SOE is getting the player message and making the game more exciting.
  • lillinlillin Member Posts: 207

    Why I hate SOE .............

    First off i do not hate SOE, but I do dislike some of the things they do.  I am a long time player of EQ and EQ2, i keep paying so i dont hate them yet .............. well eq2 was canceled, but ill get into that.

    First off I have met some SOE employees at various game conventions. Most were nice, some seemed to be yes men, all and all no real problems there.  Developing games is my hobby of choice, so i play many and find the good and bad and think of ways to make them better.  I usually go into the forums of these games and spit off a few ideas on how to improve this that or the other.  I am used to the few people who say it wont work and such but EQ2's forums are the worst i have ever been a part of. 

    Right now I will tell any one this .............. the community in eq2 is great, some really awesome people in that game, the community in the forums is very poor though, avoid them at all cost. The forums are very biased, and its all about the dollar it seems.  As a poster posted all ready, there are fansite/communitysite members there that are really smug and controling of the system in those forums.  If you disagree with them, they will nail you to a cross if they can, ive seen them countless times be completly rude to posters who did nothing but ask a simple question.

    A list of the posters to avoid :

    Kendricke / ChaosUndivided / Mawie  ----- Casters Realm Fansite employee's

    These posters are very smug towards anyone who does not agree with them.  They will harrass you, report you multiple times over post that arent even offending or off topic, bait you into arguements ( so they can report you ), the list goes on, ide suggest looking thier names up in the forum search for a better idea of how they act.  The scheem is, Kendricke is the main instigator, if he had to lay low, he would then send mawie or chaosundivided in to basically bait people into a trap to lead them to an offense, how ever small it may be then report them.  I believe he even used his guild members as more report buttons, if you see Legion of the White Rose in thier signiture ............. look who thier backing almost saying the same exact thing and attacking the same way.

    With out getting into a huge drawn out explanation, basically if you go against them your account will be ban permenatly.

    Aslo watch out for these two moderators :

    StaryEyedElf / Echgar  ----------- SOE EQ2 Forum moderators

    Stary and echgar both have threatened me through 5 tells.  Warning me to not talk about a certain topic or I will be ban.  A topic that Kendricke / ChaosUndivided basically did not agree with.  The topic of being able to solo in an MMO and progress.  Stary baited me a few times, 7 to be exact, once calling out my forum handle to rile me even further.  They left post in heated debates about this topic from some ungracious posters, knowing i would post in defense of others.  Stary is the more pathetic one, she will bait then get echgar ( the higher up mod) to handle the situation once everyone is riled up and fighting and both are extremely biased against the "soloing crowd".

    What happened is everytime some one mentioned a way to make this possible, Kendricke and his bots would come in and derail the subject.  No longer was it a constructive thread at that point.  Then of course others started to defend thier point of view, then choas would come in and tell every one how stupid they were ( not joking).  Then a full blown fight breaks out and people get warned, ban, perma baned ............... this happened over and over again for several months, ide say about 40 + threads total on this one subject alone.  But guess what, they didnt get banned, but any one who got hot headed once on the " solo " side of the debate sure did.

    The other part to this dislike is that the game can be so much more involving and fun.  We all know money and time constraints are what kills alot of the " fun " in game developement .......... but someone in charge of eq's design is a real screw up.  I would take you through the time line of repeated bad design desions but you can read thier forums for that info.  The devs thier listen, this i know, they have taken many good ideas from the community and made it fit into the game.  The problem is i think there are too many employees there that know eq1 hardcore, and cannot simply adapt to eq2 casual.  I also think they have alot of new developers or just the wrong types there that is also mucking up the game.

    I really wish i could explain alot of this in more detail but its just not worth it.  Basically until i see some people removed or punished in some way, i will not be going back to EQ2, I will also not suggest others to play it.  For those devs in EQ2 who did listen or just did thier best to make a great game, thanks for trying ......... sorry your having to put up with all the other bs.  My theory is if a company lets smug, assinine people, attack thier customers and generally be rude to most thier subscribers ................... then why should i pay to support thier jobs to just continue this problem ........?

    Btw my forum account on EQ2 is permently ban.  I did nothing but try and help the game become more enjoyble for a large portion of the eq2 player base ( playerbase portion proven by SOE's own poll ).  I had to get rude and crude just to get past your professional posters.  You continue to let some favored posters, post very rude and unjust comments to others with no punishment.  You have banned my forum account, and have lost a few others in doing so, i guess some of my friends thought it was time to leave anyways. Thank you for reading.

  • helothelot Member UncommonPosts: 89

    So young So Angry. 

  • AeliaAelia Member Posts: 27

    Hello!


    Way u hate a company?!

    It can’t bee easy to fulfill every player out there.

    And there are allot of player trying to cheat
    their way to get stuff for free!

    And there is hard to se which type every player is!


    U cant think that there 1 and foremost thing is not to try to get every once
    play time to bee as good as possible!

     

    Sorry my bad English!

     



  • RinicRinic Member Posts: 715


    Originally posted by Aelia




    Hello!


    Way u hate a company?!

    It can’t bee easy to fulfill every player out there.




    And there are allot of player trying to cheat
    their way to get stuff for free!

    And there is hard to se which type every player is!


    U cant think that there 1 and foremost thing is not to try to get every once
    play time to bee as good as possible!




     



    Sorry my bad English!



     





    SOE has this thing where they tend to ruin any game they touch.

    Ex. EQ
    Ex. SWG
    Ex. Infantry
  • BlackWhysperBlackWhysper Member Posts: 113

    hmmm

  • grinreapergrinreaper Member Posts: 507
    They put it in all the SOE games.
  • kovacevdkovacevd Member Posts: 9
    I guess im not the only HATER..
    List of things i have experianced in 4 months of playing EQ2

     

      Need to Purchase Expanions to get more out of ur character. 

      Renaming old zones and calling them new ones.

      To much raid laggg.
     
      Weapon sellers Merchant do not sell anything you can or would actually use in the game.


     
      Characters are all unbalanced.

      Constant class nerfs, You could be owning people in one day and the next day its totaly opposite.

      Tradeskilling, Now why would you want to sit for 2 hours crafting something. BORING

      Bad customer support from SOE/eq2 
     
      Necros need to spend 10x the amount to buy spells.

      Tankers need to spend 10X amount for armour.

      Casters die in one 1.

      People zoning in and out while your trying to kill them. (makes pvp so crap)

      Not all professions can EVAC. (makes some classes more uber at pvp since they can run from ever fight)

     

    I could go on all day for 365 days how bad my experience is with EQ2.



  • cadgecadge Member Posts: 2
    am gonna assume that SOE is like the maker of everquest and if so i hate them too i bough the game and there was so many problems with it.... so anyways just though id say something cheers
  • PlanoMMPlanoMM Member Posts: 1,267

    i dont post much, and i almost never post if i dont know what im talking about, but i have to say something here.

    1.  if u hate SOE, y u still playing their games and/or posting in their forums, i know this isnt actually SOEs forums, but the same basic principle applies.  i cant stand Knight Online, or the makers of Knight Online.  i was a devoted player of KO, and the forums for KO, when i decided that i couldnt play the game anymore cause of bugs and alot of other issues.  i left said game and forums.  i havent visited their forums since i quit.  now, im not telling u what to do, but it seems to me that if u dont like the games and/or company making the games, u should prolly go find one u do like, and stop playing and/or posting in these forums.

    2.  SOE is a big company for a reason.  there is actually a reason that the makers of these games seek out SOE to publish their games.  its not because theyre the only company.  i could list alot of other big name companys that could publish these games, but for the sake of time and space, i wont.  suffice it to say that SOE must b doing something right in order to keep ppl paying their subscription costs and keep devs. coming back to them to publish these games, and dont say its only cause of money cause all the other publishers have money too.

    3.  SWG was crap when i tried it.  ill admit that, but i feel like its more the devs. fault for that.  now im no expert on EQ or EQII, i played EQ for 10 mins b4 uninstalling, and ive just started playing EQII.  i played EQII last night for 6 hrs straight tho, not too many games keep me attention that well.  as far as EQ goes, it looked like it might b a great game...5 yrs ago.  But in this day and age, i want good grafix and sound.  anyway, im not knocking EQ, but it looks like EQII is an updated version of that game, so i play it.  so what im trying to say is when a game is crap, stop playing it, dont go on and on about it for a yr on the forums.  u will come across many crappy games out there, doesnt mean that the publisher or devs. r complete retards, just means that they published a crappy game.   move on, good ppl, move on...

    4.  Everquest was the premiere game for several yrs, SWG was crap, the Matrix is not bad, just not me taste, and im falling in love with EQII, i have individual feelings for every1 of these games, y would i lump them all up under one feeling about the publisher when they were all developed by different developers, ex.  lucasfilm, sigil, WB and Perpetual.  i never hear any1 say, "I hate Lucasfilm, they made a crappy game"  all i ever see or hear is, "I hate SOE, SWG is crap" 

    5.  again, i cant argue with what was said about EQII endgame content, cause im no where near the endgame content, but i can say that so far this is the deepest gameplay that ive ever seen.  go play Hero Online if u dont believe me, try to sit down in that game, or dance. lol.  even FFXI crafting system pales in comparsion to what i can do right now in this game, at freagin lvl 8.  at lvl 1 i walked out the front gate and started mining!  u cant do that in any other game on the market.  WOW u have to buy that skill (snickers).

    6.  WOW has haters, FFXI has haters, EVE has haters, every game on the market has a segment of the population that hates them.  its normal.

    7.  WOW has hardcore devotees, as does FFXI, EVE and every other game on the market.  its normal.

    Summary:  sry so long, stop the hate, feed ur goldfish, and enjoy ur gametime(dont waste it on games u dont like), and last but certainly not least, dont eat yellow snow.  thats just gross.

    ______________________________
    image

  • lillinlillin Member Posts: 207



    Originally posted by PlanoMM

    Lets see if i can help answer this.


    i dont post much, and i almost never post if i dont know what im talking about, but i have to say something here.
    You still shouldn't have post in a thread about being angry with SOE if you are not.
    1.  if u hate SOE, y u still playing their games and/or posting in their forums, i know this isnt actually SOEs forums, but the same basic principle applies.  i cant stand Knight Online, or the makers of Knight Online.  i was a devoted player of KO, and the forums for KO, when i decided that i couldnt play the game anymore cause of bugs and alot of other issues.  i left said game and forums.  i havent visited their forums since i quit.  now, im not telling u what to do, but it seems to me that if u dont like the games and/or company making the games, u should prolly go find one u do like, and stop playing and/or posting in these forums.
    Thank you for your advice.  Some people feel they should be more proactive rather than passive when it comes to things they used to enjoy.  I was very active in eq2 forums, the game, my guild, as well as the entire server community.  Then the game developers started making some bad decisions.  Even at launch the game had serious problems, they were fixed or lets say changed to up the sub count.  Eventually after many LU's and such people became tired of logging into a diff game over and over, seeing your hard work be trivialized becuase well the market just wanted something easier.
    When i pay money for something, i expect to get what im told im getting.  But even as we speak that cant hold to a general idea and stick with it.  Its that old cliche of the politician checking the polls before they make a decision to see if its ok.
    So you can see those of us that speak up as lobbiest i guess.  We dont like what we are seeing and letting it be known, rather then just walk off.  Sure both ways are effective at showing your disdain towards something, but one way may have a chance at solving the problem through feedback.
    2.  SOE is a big company for a reason.  there is actually a reason that the makers of these games seek out SOE to publish their games.  its not because theyre the only company.  i could list alot of other big name companys that could publish these games, but for the sake of time and space, i wont.  suffice it to say that SOE must b doing something right in order to keep ppl paying their subscription costs and keep devs. coming back to them to publish these games, and dont say its only cause of money cause all the other publishers have money too.
    Its not becuase of just money, its thier expirience in the MMO field ............ remember eq1?  What else was out then and still around?  See people/investors know that sony will keep the games going the best they can ............... they arent doing it right persay, not enough competition at the moment to decide if something is done right.  Its ignorance in a new market, with a new genre of games ....... yes MMO's are still very young in the field of game developement.
    Look at WoW for instance, i personally do not like the game.  But what, five million others love it ................ so i guess they are making an MMO the right way?  Its a preferance market, drivin by marketing schemes .......... i dont think WoW was done right, but others did, and according to your logic on what proves right and wrong way of doing things ........... WoW is the best since they have so many subs.
    3.  SWG was crap when i tried it.  ill admit that, but i feel like its more the devs. fault for that.  now im no expert on EQ or EQII, i played EQ for 10 mins b4 uninstalling, and ive just started playing EQII.  i played EQII last night for 6 hrs straight tho, not too many games keep me attention that well.  as far as EQ goes, it looked like it might b a great game...5 yrs ago.  But in this day and age, i want good grafix and sound.  anyway, im not knocking EQ, but it looks like EQII is an updated version of that game, so i play it.  so what im trying to say is when a game is crap, stop playing it, dont go on and on about it for a yr on the forums.  u will come across many crappy games out there, doesnt mean that the publisher or devs. r complete retards, just means that they published a crappy game.   move on, good ppl, move on...
    Again back to the diff in people, some will walk away and some will express there views.  Do what you will, and others will do what they will, advising people to just walk away and say nothing is even worse then this threads content to you ....... you are trying to tell people not to do something becuase you wouldnt  ............... convert any christians lately?
    4.  Everquest was the premiere game for several yrs, SWG was crap, the Matrix is not bad, just not me taste, and im falling in love with EQII, i have individual feelings for every1 of these games, y would i lump them all up under one feeling about the publisher when they were all developed by different developers, ex.  lucasfilm, sigil, WB and Perpetual.  i never hear any1 say, "I hate Lucasfilm, they made a crappy game"  all i ever see or hear is, "I hate SOE, SWG is crap" 
    Last paragraph you explained your total play time of all these games was about 6 hours and 10 minutes.  Yet you are an expert on them and what entailed with in them.  Interesting to say the least, while that debunks you more so even then your heavy opinionated views, ill continue for grins.
    5.  again, i cant argue with what was said about EQII endgame content, cause im no where near the endgame content, but i can say that so far this is the deepest gameplay that ive ever seen.  go play Hero Online if u dont believe me, try to sit down in that game, or dance. lol.  even FFXI crafting system pales in comparsion to what i can do right now in this game, at freagin lvl 8.  at lvl 1 i walked out the front gate and started mining!  u cant do that in any other game on the market.  WOW u have to buy that skill (snickers).
    6 hours and so far the game has the deepest gameplay, crafting and even compairing it to another game.  kk go back to luanch and level a toon up through all the patches, then level your tradeskill up at the same time ............... this is back when it wasnt idiot proof .................. then watch everything you worked hard for be trivialized and borderline useless.  Then come back and do your sales pitch in thread not about pushing the game sales.
    6.  WOW has haters, FFXI has haters, EVE has haters, every game on the market has a segment of the population that hates them.  its normal.
    True, but why call them haters?  Are you the type to label people in order to degrade them as well as try and debunk them by stereotyping?
    7.  WOW has hardcore devotees, as does FFXI, EVE and every other game on the market.  its normal.
    True, but if you would keep up in forums you would know there are casual devotees as well, why did you forget them?

    Summary:  sry so long, stop the hate, feed ur goldfish, and enjoy ur gametime(dont waste it on games u dont like), and last but certainly not least, dont eat yellow snow.  thats just gross.
    Summary:  Play a series of publishers games more then a combined 6 hours and ten minutes before you banter on about how wrong and sad people are.  Also try using more factual arguements rather the opinions based off a total of 6 hours and ten minutes and maybe someone will take you more seriously, if at all.


  • PlanoMMPlanoMM Member Posts: 1,267




    Originally posted by lillin



    i respect ur opinion, and ty for the feedback, but i do have a few quams if u will, about some of ur assumptions.





    Originally posted by PlanoMM
    Lets see if i can help answer this.

    Really wasnt anything to answer.

    i dont post much, and i almost never post if i dont know what im talking about, but i have to say something here.
    You still shouldn't have post in a thread about being angry with SOE if you are not.

    i posted in this thread to voice me opinion on the topic, so definitely dont think that im in the wrong forums.

    1.  if u hate SOE, y u still playing their games and/or posting in their forums, i know this isnt actually SOEs forums, but the same basic principle applies.  i cant stand Knight Online, or the makers of Knight Online.  i was a devoted player of KO, and the forums for KO, when i decided that i couldnt play the game anymore cause of bugs and alot of other issues.  i left said game and forums.  i havent visited their forums since i quit.  now, im not telling u what to do, but it seems to me that if u dont like the games and/or company making the games, u should prolly go find one u do like, and stop playing and/or posting in these forums.

    Thank you for your advice.  Some people feel they should be more proactive rather than passive when it comes to things they used to enjoy.  I was very active in eq2 forums, the game, my guild, as well as the entire server community.  Then the game developers started making some bad decisions.  Even at launch the game had serious problems, they were fixed or lets say changed to up the sub count.  Eventually after many LU's and such people became tired of logging into a diff game over and over, seeing your hard work be trivialized becuase well the market just wanted something easier.

    When i pay money for something, i expect to get what im told im getting.  But even as we speak that cant hold to a general idea and stick with it.  Its that old cliche of the politician checking the polls before they make a decision to see if its ok.

    So you can see those of us that speak up as lobbiest i guess.  We dont like what we are seeing and letting it be known, rather then just walk off.  Sure both ways are effective at showing your disdain towards something, but one way may have a chance at solving the problem through feedback.

    i understand ur point of view and respect that, and agree with what ur saying, but u cant expect me to believe that some of the ppl that posted in this forum r speaking as lobbiests.  i mean really, come on now.  there is a difference between giving feedback on a forum, and running a game and publisher of said game into the ground and slandering the ppl that support the game.  wouldnt u agree?

    2.  SOE is a big company for a reason.  there is actually a reason that the makers of these games seek out SOE to publish their games.  its not because theyre the only company.  i could list alot of other big name companys that could publish these games, but for the sake of time and space, i wont.  suffice it to say that SOE must b doing something right in order to keep ppl paying their subscription costs and keep devs. coming back to them to publish these games, and dont say its only cause of money cause all the other publishers have money too.

    Its not becuase of just money, its thier expirience in the MMO field ............ remember eq1?  What else was out then and still around?  See people/investors know that sony will keep the games going the best they can ............... they arent doing it right persay, not enough competition at the moment to decide if something is done right.  Its ignorance in a new market, with a new genre of games ....... yes MMO's are still very young in the field of game developement.

    Look at WoW for instance, i personally do not like the game.  But what, five million others love it ................ so i guess they are making an MMO the right way?  Its a preferance market, drivin by marketing schemes .......... i dont think WoW was done right, but others did, and according to your logic on what proves right and wrong way of doing things ........... WoW is the best since they have so many subs.

    i dont like WOW either, but ur proving me own point for me here, see.  WOW is very successful.  Blizzard is a successful publisher/developer.  EQ1 was a huge success(published by SOE).  meaning that its their exp in the field that draws developers and customers alike back to SOE, same as for Blizzard, SquareSoft, and the like.   and i agree about the MMOs being young in the field, but there is definitely enough competition in the market to determine that SOE and Blizzard r indeed successful in the field.  btw, i believe that WOWs success lies more with the ease of use and success of previous installments of the Warcraft franchise more than the (doing it right) concept.  Oo and personnally, i think that CCP has done it right, lol.

    SWG was crap when i tried it.  ill admit that, but i feel like its more the devs. fault for that.  now im no expert on EQ or EQII, i played EQ for 10 mins b4 uninstalling, and ive just started playing EQII.  i played EQII last night for 6 hrs straight tho, not too many games keep me attention that well.  as far as EQ goes, it looked like it might b a great game...5 yrs ago.  But in this day and age, i want good grafix and sound.  anyway, im not knocking EQ, but it looks like EQII is an updated version of that game, so i play it.  so what im trying to say is when a game is crap, stop playing it, dont go on and on about it for a yr on the forums.  u will come across many crappy games out there, doesnt mean that the publisher or devs. r complete retards, just means that they published a crappy game.   move on, good ppl, move on...
    Again back to the diff in people, some will walk away and some will express there views.  Do what you will, and others will do what they will, advising people to just walk away and say nothing is even worse then this threads content to you ....... you are trying to tell people not to do something becuase you wouldnt  ............... convert any christians lately?

    im sry if it appears that im "telling ppl what to do", i didnt mean to come off that way, but it seems to me, that u can only beat a dead horse so much.  give ur feedback, by all means, but if u notice that theyre not listening to u, seems kinda stupid to keep posting for months on end to no avail.   btw, i am an believer in giving feedback in game forums.  Oo and btw, about the christian ref., beating ppl in the head for months with a bible doesnt convert them either.  not wanting to start something here, just answering ur question.

    4.  Everquest was the premiere game for several yrs, SWG was crap, the Matrix is not bad, just not me taste, and im falling in love with EQII, i have individual feelings for every1 of these games, y would i lump them all up under one feeling about the publisher when they were all developed by different developers, ex.  lucasfilm, sigil, WB and Perpetual.  i never hear any1 say, "I hate Lucasfilm, they made a crappy game"  all i ever see or hear is, "I hate SOE, SWG is crap" 

    Last paragraph you explained your total play time of all these games was about 6 hours and 10 minutes.  Yet you are an expert on them and what entailed with in them.  Interesting to say the least, while that debunks you more so even then your heavy opinionated views, ill continue for grins.

    now here it seems u turned alittle mean, cause if u read the last paragraph u saw that i wrote that im NOT an expert on these games, and dont know what all is entailed in these games.  i made that perfectly clear, so i thought.  i do have heavy opinions, nothing wrong with that, im not telling u that u have to share me opinions, so whats the problem?  last i checked, the forums were designed to share said opinions.  Oo and the point of this paragraph was to point out that i have different feelings for every game i play.

    5.  again, i cant argue with what was said about EQII endgame content, cause im no where near the endgame content, but i can say that so far this is the deepest gameplay that ive ever seen.  go play Hero Online if u dont believe me, try to sit down in that game, or dance. lol.  even FFXI crafting system pales in comparsion to what i can do right now in this game, at freagin lvl 8.  at lvl 1 i walked out the front gate and started mining!  u cant do that in any other game on the market.  WOW u have to buy that skill (snickers).

    6 hours and so far the game has the deepest gameplay, crafting and even compairing it to another game.  kk go back to luanch and level a toon up through all the patches, then level your tradeskill up at the same time ............... this is back when it wasnt idiot proof .................. then watch everything you worked hard for be trivialized and borderline useless.  Then come back and do your sales pitch in thread not about pushing the game sales.

    yes, i played it for 6 hrs and experienced more depth of gameplay then i did in most other games at lvl 30+.  not talking about from launch, talking about from 5 pm to 11 pm on one night, hardly a comparsion, eh?  btw, no sales pitch here, sry u took it that way.  me point was that i felt that i could "do" more at lvl 8 in EQII than i could at lvl 56 in Hero Online, or lvl 55 in Knight Online, or lvl 8 in DDO, all combined.  and yes i do have chars at those lvls in those games, so i do know alittle about it.

    6.  WOW has haters, FFXI has haters, EVE has haters, every game on the market has a segment of the population that hates them.  its normal.

    True, but why call them haters?  Are you the type to label people in order to degrade them as well as try and debunk them by stereotyping?

    i call them haters cause they r selfproclaimed "haters".  if u feel that im degrading u, im sry, that is not me intent at all.  im not talking about ppl that give real feedback in a forum.  ur feedback is indeed, insightful and has alot of things that i hadnt thought of b4.  im talking about ppl that wont let others point out good points of a game, im talking about ppl that have to flame any and all supporters of a said game.  those r indeed, haters, by the very definition.  if that means im degrading them, then what does it mean when they call me a fanboi?

    7.  WOW has hardcore devotees, as does FFXI, EVE and every other game on the market.  its normal.

    True, but if you would keep up in forums you would know there are casual devotees as well, why did you forget them?

    didnt forget them, just doesnt apply here.  6 and 7 walk hand in hand, it was a natural assumption that there r casual devotees as well as hardcore devotees.  there was no need for me to make the post any longer by adding something that should have been deduced.  besides, isnt it long enough already? lol.

    Summary:  sry so long, stop the hate, feed ur goldfish, and enjoy ur gametime(dont waste it on games u dont like), and last but certainly not least, dont eat yellow snow.  thats just gross.

    Summary:  Play a series of publishers games more then a combined 6 hours and ten minutes before you banter on about how wrong and sad people are.  Also try using more factual arguements rather the opinions based off a total of 6 hours and ten minutes and maybe someone will take you more seriously, if at all.

    again, not bantering on about how wrong and sad ppl r, i do think some ppl r, but that doesnt need to b said, but that was definitely not the point of me previous post, and if u took it as such, i apologize.  point of ref. tho, ive been an avid gamer all of me life, excluding toddler yrs.  ive been an avid MMO player since about 6 yrs ago.  so i have played a few (sarcasiam intended) games out there.  again, i made no ref. to EQ or EQII based on opinions, except that i liked them, which is, in fact, a fact.  so im not really sure what ur getting at on the 6 hrs thing.  if u need to know how many hrs in each game that ive played online b4 im allowed to post in a forum about online games, id b more than happy to send u me full gaming resume detailing me exp in each game.

    sry for so much sarcasiam, but u gotta admit, u rode the 6 hr thing alittle hard in ur post, as if to say that some1 that has only played a game for 6 hrs shouldnt b posting an opinion in a forum.

    ______________________________
    image

  • imferealimfereal Member Posts: 8
    Cheers to you Plano. Your post was excellent.
  • lillinlillin Member Posts: 207

    Eq2 forums is a nice play ground for this.  See in eq2 they promote a " positive " atmosphere for thier forum community.  What this entails to though is this, if you are speaking out about the game that a a few "opinionated" people disagree with and give thier opinion in a thread that has little to do with thier thread this starts a ruckus.  THis goes against the positive atmosphere becuase some one gave thier opinion.

    Good real life example ......... people are discussing ways to improve the limited solo gameplay in eq2.  Basically think of ways to improve the game, well some of the eq purist come in the thread, give thier OPINION and start to derail the thread of its original topic.  People in this thread now have to wade through many post they dont even want to read just to see the ones about the threads topic.  By post page 26 people give up picking through it.

    Know what a hollow review is?  It is a review of a product after only reviewing it a short time.  Most of you gamer magazines do this becuase they have so many games to review.  So why did i push your 6 hours and ten minutes?  Becuase you gave a hollow review ................ a game is designed to hook someone in, in the first 30 minutes, its gonna show the flash and the glam ......... however this will fade over time.  I could not play a game for 6 hours and speak so highly of it with thinking i would be taken seriously by serious people.  A hollow review is another way to hook people in a 30 minute period, marketing loop hole if you will.  Using laziness to help the cuase if you like simple black and white explanation.

    Well you dont like what people are sayin in this thread.  So you felt compelled to offer your point of view in thier thread topic?  Heres an idea go start up a I love sony thread and go praise them there.  Then people who want to praise eq2 know where to go to worship with other followers.

    You mention that not all people here are "lobbiest" for thier said beliefs.  But i must ask one question first, how come anything negative about a game is presumed slanderous and untrue, while false hype of game is seen as ok? Anyway, not all may be lobbiest, but maybe they are .......... not everyone knows how to express thier views in ways that are accepted in standard ways, a culture shock if you will.  Some one that says "SOE sucks" while not giving an explanation, i get the idea they dont like soe.  Though someone that says, "EQ2 Rocks, go by it" is seen as ok?  Is our consumerism so bad that as long as someone says buy a product then they are automatically the good guy over someone who says not to?  Both have not stated facts, just opinions with out argument supporting thier beliefs.  Funny how one is evil and one is viewed as an angel though.

    Successful MMO's.  What makes them successful?  Is population the successful mark? Is how many bought the product the successful mark?  Is people still in the same game for 8 years the succesful mark?  There are many ways to judge success in the game industry.  The problem is that the industry is new, therefore the baisis of measure to judge success is not availible.  EQ1 did great back when it started ......... well WoW did what 6 times greater a few years later?  SO to that logic WoW greater than eq1?  Well wow is more user friendly ........ well sure lets put it the politically incorrect way and say its made for any moron to be able to play.  So is this game a successful game?  Sure if you look at money coming in .......... but what about fun factor?  Well game X was totally fun to its 10000 players but its not successful becuase hey WoW is easy to use and has 6 million subs now. 

    Well now some may say eq2 falls in this underdog bracket which to some it does.  But many forget about 20 servers being merged, also forget about 2/3's of its population disapearing.  So while eq2 may be successful in being fun for some ........... it lost 2/3's of that total some.  So how do we judge if that is successful?  What to we have to base comparisons from, how many previous mmo's of this genre and or playstyle can we compare to check if this is the norm?  THis is what i mean by the field being too young.

    Ill stop here for now

  • PlanoMMPlanoMM Member Posts: 1,267



    Originally posted by lillin

    Eq2 forums is a nice play ground for this.  See in eq2 they promote a " positive " atmosphere for thier forum community.  What this entails to though is this, if you are speaking out about the game that a a few "opinionated" people disagree with and give thier opinion in a thread that has little to do with thier thread this starts a ruckus.  THis goes against the positive atmosphere becuase some one gave thier opinion.
    so.....it goes against the positive atmosphere of the forums to voice an opinion?  and having a forum entitled, "The Official "We're Angry at SOE" thread" is......positive?  and starting the thread with the intent and purpose of railing on, and running down SOE and their business practices is.....a positive atmosphere?
    Good real life example ......... people are discussing ways to improve the limited solo gameplay in eq2.  Basically think of ways to improve the game, well some of the eq purist come in the thread, give thier OPINION and start to derail the thread of its original topic.  People in this thread now have to wade through many post they dont even want to read just to see the ones about the threads topic.  By post page 26 people give up picking through it.
    actually, not to derail the topic here, lol, but ur the only one that had a problem with any of what i said, in fact, the only other response to me posts was "Cheers to you Plano. Your post was excellent." posted by imfereal.  so it kinda seems like ur the only one upset about me OPINION.
    Know what a hollow review is?  It is a review of a product after only reviewing it a short time.  Most of you gamer magazines do this becuase they have so many games to review.  So why did i push your 6 hours and ten minutes?  Becuase you gave a hollow review ................ a game is designed to hook someone in, in the first 30 minutes, its gonna show the flash and the glam ......... however this will fade over time.  I could not play a game for 6 hours and speak so highly of it with thinking i would be taken seriously by serious people.  A hollow review is another way to hook people in a 30 minute period, marketing loop hole if you will.  Using laziness to help the cuase if you like simple black and white explanation.
    i agree with u here, and now i understand y u rode the 6 hr bus so long now.  ur right, if i had given a review after only 6 hrs of play, it would have to have been an hollow review.  but if u will reread me previous posts, u will notice that i didnt review anything.  i simply stated that i enjoyed the game, i am allowed to make a post saying that i liked a game, arent i?  also, u proved me own point here too, ur right, the first 30 mins of any and all games is designed to b the hook.  so what does it say about a game, if i cant even stomach more than 10 mins of it?  and note plz, that i pointed out that i played for 6 hrs STRAIGHT.  i dont play games for 6 hrs straight.  even tried and true games like FFXI, DOAC, EVE, Hero, KO, AO, UO, RYL, RF online, WOW, or even DDO could not hold me attention for that long at one time.  side note, i played FFXI for 2 yrs, DDO i still play on a reg. basis, EVE ive played for 1 yr, Hero since open beta, KO since open beta, and RYL for 6 months.  so these r games that i enjoyed playing for a long period of time, with the exception of UO, AO, DOAC, SWG, WOW, and RF Online.  i do have a pretty good idea of what i like in a game, and can usually identify it quickly.
    Well you dont like what people are sayin in this thread.  So you felt compelled to offer your point of view in thier thread topic?  Heres an idea go start up a I love sony thread and go praise them there.  Then people who want to praise eq2 know where to go to worship with other followers.
    i never said i didnt like what ppl r saying in this thread, i dont really care what ppl r saying in this thread, ppl can and will say whatever they feel like saying.  and u know what, thats cool with me.  thats y its here, to voice opinions.  u dont have to agree with me, i dont have to agree with u, and u can say whatever u want about it.  btw, im not a SOE worshipper or whatever, lol, i just look at it like an adult and realize that they (like any1 of us, if we were in their shoes) r in it for the money.  they make and produce games (good ones and crappy ones), with one goal in mind, to make money.  y would i hate them for that, when thats what id do if i were them.
    You mention that not all people here are "lobbiest" for thier said beliefs.  But i must ask one question first, how come anything negative about a game is presumed slanderous and untrue, while false hype of game is seen as ok? Anyway, not all may be lobbiest, but maybe they are .......... not everyone knows how to express thier views in ways that are accepted in standard ways, a culture shock if you will.  Some one that says "SOE sucks" while not giving an explanation, i get the idea they dont like soe.  Though someone that says, "EQ2 Rocks, go by it" is seen as ok?  Is our consumerism so bad that as long as someone says buy a product then they are automatically the good guy over someone who says not to?  Both have not stated facts, just opinions with out argument supporting thier beliefs.  Funny how one is evil and one is viewed as an angel though.
    may i point out that any1 that points out good points of a game or publisher is called a fanboi and often flamed to no end for their beliefs about a given game.  couldnt it also b argued that "fanbois" r also lobbiest?  u said that some1 saying "SOE sucks" is seen as slanderous and treated badly by the community, but try this experiment for me, go into a forum about EQ2 and start a thread entitled, "Eq2 Rocks, go buy it," and see what happens, lol, if u think "haters" r mistreated.
    Successful MMO's.  What makes them successful?  Is population the successful mark? Is how many bought the product the successful mark?  Is people still in the same game for 8 years the succesful mark?  There are many ways to judge success in the game industry.  The problem is that the industry is new, therefore the baisis of measure to judge success is not availible.  EQ1 did great back when it started ......... well WoW did what 6 times greater a few years later?  SO to that logic WoW greater than eq1?  Well wow is more user friendly ........ well sure lets put it the politically incorrect way and say its made for any moron to be able to play.  So is this game a successful game?  Sure if you look at money coming in .......... but what about fun factor?  Well game X was totally fun to its 10000 players but its not successful becuase hey WoW is easy to use and has 6 million subs now. 
    not going to get into this with u, cause i agree with most of what u say here.  but i will say this, there is enough of a market now to measure the success of a given MMO.  EQ1 is unargueably a great success.   WOW is unargueably successfull.  FFXI is undeniably a huge success.  these games will b around for a long time to come, there r more, but u get the point, im sure.
    Well now some may say eq2 falls in this underdog bracket which to some it does.  But many forget about 20 servers being merged, also forget about 2/3's of its population disapearing.  So while eq2 may be successful in being fun for some ........... it lost 2/3's of that total some.  So how do we judge if that is successful?  What to we have to base comparisons from, how many previous mmo's of this genre and or playstyle can we compare to check if this is the norm?  THis is what i mean by the field being too young.
    i dont know anything about the 20 server thing, sounds bad.  dont know anything about the 2/3's fo the pop. that disappeared.  all i do know about EQ2 is that i enjoy it, so for me it is a success.  globally, id say that since it is still bringing in new blood and adding new expansions its prolly in its prime.  whether or not it will have the staying power, only time will tell.
    Ill stop here for now
    again, most of ur points on EQ2 and different things like that i find insightful.  i dont disagree with most of what u have to say, but u seem to have a problem with me and me posts, i dont understand y, but u r entitled to ur opinions.  and i thank u for ur feedback and for reading mine.



    ______________________________
    image

  • PlanoMMPlanoMM Member Posts: 1,267

    i went back to see if there was, indeed, something in me original post that some1 might find offensive.  im going to highlight points i find relavent to the issues that u seem to have problems with.

    1.  if u hate SOE, y u still playing their games and/or posting in their forums, i know this isnt actually SOEs forums, but the same basic principle applies.  i cant stand Knight Online, or the makers of Knight Online.  i was a devoted player of KO, and the forums for KO, when i decided that i couldnt play the game anymore cause of bugs and alot of other issues.  i left said game and forums.  i havent visited their forums since i quitnow, im not telling u what to do, but it seems to me that if u dont like the games and/or company making the games, u should prolly go find one u do like, and stop playing and/or posting in these forums.

    the red highlighted text is the text that u seem to have latched onto and quoted from me.

    the yellow highlighted text is the text that should answer and squelch any of the problems that u had with the red text.

    3.  SWG was crap when i tried it.  ill admit that, but i feel like its more the devs. fault for that.  now im no expert on EQ or EQII, i played EQ for 10 mins b4 uninstalling, and ive just started playing EQII.  i played EQII last night for 6 hrs straight tho, not too many games keep me attention that well.  as far as EQ goes, it looked like it might b a great game...5 yrs ago.  But in this day and age, i want good grafix and sound.  anyway, im not knocking EQ, but it looks like EQII is an updated version of that game, so i play it.  so what im trying to say is when a game is crap, stop playing it, dont go on and on about it for a yr on the forums.  u will come across many crappy games out there, doesnt mean that the publisher or devs. r complete retards, just means that they published a crappy game.   move on, good ppl, move on...

    the red highlighted text is the text that u threw in me face and quoted at me over and over as ur basis for y im just an idiot with a hollow review and sales pitch.

    the yellow highlighted text is the text from the orginal post pointing out that im not an expert or even claiming to b an expert, and stating a personnal exp. with the game that not too many games can do. e.g. holding me attention for very long sitting.  again, im not seeing a review here.  if u see one, plz let me know where ur getting it at.

    hope this helps to clear up some of the misunderstandings.

    again, i mean no offense by any of this.

    ______________________________
    image

Sign In or Register to comment.