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The Official "We're Angry at SOE" thread

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  • Na'viNa'vi Member Posts: 1
    Originally posted by Wakizashi
    I would just like to point out that SOE gets royalties for hosting Vanguard.  This is admitted by Brad McQuaid on teh VSOH forums.  Its not just a service fee, its a royalty.  Vanguard can't publish the game by themselves and Microsoft already tossed them aside.  You better believe SOE will slide its hand up VAnguard's skirt.

    ACTUALLY, Sigil tossed Microsoft aside. 

    Brad left Microsoft because they were trying to influence the development of the game.  I am no fan of SOE, but he would not have turned around and went to SOE if they were going to do the same thing.  He is well aware of SOE's reputation and what they have done in the past.  He had to have taken the precautions to ensure SOE does not "slide its hand up VAnguard's skirt."  SOE knows Vanguard is going to be a good game.  Of course they want a piece of the action (especially with SWG subscriptions down). 

    Granted, I am still a little cautious of SOE's new role, but I am still willing to give Vanguard a shot.

    Just some random thoughts
  • ShaydeShayde Member Posts: 4,529


    Originally posted by Na'vi
    Originally posted by Wakizashi
    I would just like to point out that SOE gets royalties for hosting Vanguard.  This is admitted by Brad McQuaid on teh VSOH forums.  Its not just a service fee, its a royalty.  Vanguard can't publish the game by themselves and Microsoft already tossed them aside.  You better believe SOE will slide its hand up VAnguard's skirt.
    ACTUALLY, Sigil tossed Microsoft aside. 

    Brad left Microsoft because they were trying to influence the development of the game.  I am no fan of SOE, but he would not have turned around and went to SOE if they were going to do the same thing.  He is well aware of SOE's reputation and what they have done in the past.  He had to have taken the precautions to ensure SOE does not "slide its hand up VAnguard's skirt."  SOE knows Vanguard is going to be a good game.  Of course they want a piece of the action (especially with SWG subscriptions down). 

    Granted, I am still a little cautious of SOE's new role, but I am still willing to give Vanguard a shot.

    Just some random thoughts


    Brad

    Same guy who sold out EQ to $OE.

    That Brad, Right?  

    Shayde - SWG (dead)
    Proud member of the Cabal.
    image

    imageimage
    It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled :( - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me.
    I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
    09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

  • DanaDana Member Posts: 2,415


    Originally posted by iceman00


    Perhaps what could be done is maybe MMORPG.com will allow some guest editorials on some of the practices and concepts behind the NGE.  mainly turning away from turn based combat, the gamble to knowingly anger current customers for the mythical new ones, the unintended consequences of WoW saturating the market with clones, the problems of linear gameplay, etc.


    If ANYONE wants to write guest editorials for the site, I am always looking for talented writers with well developed arguments. Feel free to drop me an email (lepidus@mmorpg.com) and we'll chat.

    Dana Massey
    Formerly of MMORPG.com
    Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios

  • MakaneMakane Member Posts: 232


    Originally posted by Shayde

    Originally posted by Na'vi
    Edit
    Edit


    Brad

    Same guy who sold out EQ to $OE.

    That Brad, Right?  


    Sorry, but wasn't Brad just lead designer on EQ? Smed was president of Verant, the one who sold out and Verant became SOE, right?
  • WakizashiWakizashi Member Posts: 893
    Actually, you have to read between the lines to realize that MS dispatched Sigil rather than teh other way around. I'm not to familiar with these business dealings, however, there was an original agreement between the two. No matter if MS wanted to influence the game or not, no one dumps MS, they dump you. And why didn't Brad go to SOE first? Could it be because he thought MS would be a better situation for his game? The whole thing just stinks.

    If Brad is above the meddling of publishers, he would have chosen someone who did not want to interfere. Clearly he was either lied to by MS(unlikely) or he was dumped for poor performance or some other issue. Now he must settle and crawl to someone who can help him. So he calls up his buddy Darth Smedley. It's like going to the mafia to borrow money. Sure they will help you out, but you are gonna owe them a favor.
  • anarchyartanarchyart Member Posts: 5,378


    Originally posted by Makane



    Originally posted by Shayde
    Brad

    Same guy who sold out EQ to $OE.

    That Brad, Right?  


    Sorry, but wasn't Brad just lead designer on EQ? Smed was president of Verant, the one who sold out and Verant became SOE, right?



    Yup. Smedley and Brad started Verant after 989 decided to stick with console titles. Brad had a hand in the creation of SWG too, I'll have you know. Smed sold out to Sony, Brad was vice president. Still though, no one could foresee the NGE, which is why you're so currently pissed. Brad left while you were still in  Star Wars heaven. Brad f'in rocks. See you in Vanguard Shayde. Cuz even if you don't, I know it's going to be good enough for you to have to play it. You're a gamer, that's why.

    image
  • britocabritoca Member Posts: 1,484


    Originally posted by wookiee
    I was unemployed at the time and I logged on for 14 hours a day or longer... ate infront of the darn computer... never went out except to buy some food ....i must have been crazy...




    No way man! I was jobless myself, I put in average 16hrs of gameplay/day, with 26hr peaks at times.  Awesome stuff!

    Anyways, back on topic what was it again??

    Ahh yes, how SOE dumped all that effort down the faucet....

    -virtual tourist
    want your game back?
    image

  • ZythylZythyl Member Posts: 86
    I think SOE is doing an awesome job with EQ2. Am I wrong?


    ------------------------------

    What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
    Game On!

    image

  • ObraikObraik Member Posts: 7,261


    Originally posted by Malickiebloo
    This such a false statement , There are three "SOE loyalists"  here I know of . Obraik , Elnator and Pirrg . Not one of them Goes into threads calling people idiots or morons for their opinions . WHich I know for a fact you do you have done it to me . There are a substanial amount of SOE haters here who constantly do such things .


    I wouldn't exactly say I'm an SOE loyalist, SWG loyalist if you want to label me as something :p  I don't go to the other SOE game forums here and post about them there :)

    image

    image

  • ShaydeShayde Member Posts: 4,529


    Originally posted by anarchyart

    Originally posted by Makane




    Originally posted by Shayde
    Brad

    Same guy who sold out EQ to $OE.

    That Brad, Right?  



    Sorry, but wasn't Brad just lead designer on EQ? Smed was president of Verant, the one who sold out and Verant became SOE, right?



    Yup. Smedley and Brad started Verant after 989 decided to stick with console titles. Brad had a hand in the creation of SWG too, I'll have you know. Smed sold out to Sony, Brad was vice president. Still though, no one could foresee the NGE, which is why you're so currently pissed. Brad left while you were still in  Star Wars heaven. Brad f'in rocks. See you in Vanguard Shayde. Cuz even if you don't, I know it's going to be good enough for you to have to play it. You're a gamer, that's why.


    Sorry babe. If I would pay for a game with $OE on it, I'd already be trying out the MxO CU and bitching about how it sucks.

    Vanguard is dead to me unless they shake $OE. Rome is too.. and so will STO if they sell out.

    Shayde - SWG (dead)
    Proud member of the Cabal.
    image

    imageimage
    It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled :( - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me.
    I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
    09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

  • xPaladinxPaladin Member Posts: 741
    Actually the MxO CU isn't as bad as the SWG NGE. Not by a long shot. In fact, I was decently surprised by it. Although, they still have a ways to go to make that game worth playing -- there's a noticable content dearth and the combat doesn't save the feeling of an endless mission grind (made worse by the fact that in the first 5 hours of play, you'll inevitably run into the same building layout twice or more).

    Still, with Vanguard I think that they set their goals on completely unreasonable targets and were never going to make them. Hardcore MMOs just won't sell to production standards anymore -- they create niche markets at best.

    Brad arguably dug his own grave with SWG, and if so, he made the hole deeper with Vanguard. I really admire the guy for wanting to push the extremes of MMO creation, but I wonder if such is even possible given the crowds that adore such games.


    -- xpaladin

    [MMOz]
    AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW

  • AleaaAleaa Member Posts: 236



    Originally posted by Shayde

    Sorry babe. If I would pay for a game with $OE on it, I'd already be trying out the MxO CU and bitching about how it sucks.

    Vanguard is dead to me unless they shake $OE. Rome is too.. and so will STO if they sell out.



    Preach on brother!

    And I like the idea of a sticky here (not that I post in this forum anymore).  But it needed it!

  • SelothSeloth Member Posts: 388


    Originally posted by Na'vi
    Originally posted by Wakizashi
    I would just like to point out that SOE gets royalties for hosting Vanguard.  This is admitted by Brad McQuaid on teh VSOH forums.  Its not just a service fee, its a royalty.  Vanguard can't publish the game by themselves and Microsoft already tossed them aside.  You better believe SOE will slide its hand up VAnguard's skirt.
    ACTUALLY, Sigil tossed Microsoft aside. 

    Brad left Microsoft because they were trying to influence the development of the game.  I am no fan of SOE, but he would not have turned around and went to SOE if they were going to do the same thing.  He is well aware of SOE's reputation and what they have done in the past.  He had to have taken the precautions to ensure SOE does not "slide its hand up VAnguard's skirt."  SOE knows Vanguard is going to be a good game.  Of course they want a piece of the action (especially with SWG subscriptions down). 

    Granted, I am still a little cautious of SOE's new role, but I am still willing to give Vanguard a shot.

    Just some random thoughts


    Lets just clear this all up.

    A. this is not the vangard section of life.

    B. Per the press release from both sides, it was a mutual parting of ways with MS and Sigil. Yes fans and anti-fans of boith MS and SoE ae trying to spin it to thier side.

    C. Sigil with the new agreement will handle code develoipment, and customer service, SoE will be the ones running thg servers, the technical support and the billing process.  

    i posted what I "thought" was a fairly reasonable view of a this whole thing.

    "Acutally Vengeful,

    The ones (yes like me) that have something from a distrust to out right foaming at the mouth hatered of all things SoE have a very valid purpose here. Like it or not if all you see are the cheerleaders (players) and spin doctors (pr types from a company), then you only see one side of a debate.

    I know it might upset a few that have watched the game develop and grow under the coders love and care, and I very much respect that, but here are the facts. 

    The provangard posters are saying (roughly): "Look brad said that SoE will have no control over the game."

    The anti-SoE camp says: "you all are screwed....."

    The reality is somewhere in between.

    Fact: SoE will not be the developers, brad and crew are keepers of the code.

    Fact: SoE will be managing the servers, brad and crew will not have any direct control over them.

    Fact: Sigil will be in charge of customer service, sidestepping the less than stellar reputation of SoE in and out of game customer service.

    Fact: SoE will be handling the accounting and technical support. Brad and team should have some oversight here.

    (can we agree with the above?)

    Frankly yes I do NOT trust SoE, I do think that brad and his team have a very good vision of a good game.

    I do see some friction points to how this is all set up. Here are some common issues that can cause the friction I am personally concerned with:

    a. Servers are not stable to a level that is acceptable form a player standpoint: SoE will blame the code, Brad and team will blame the server hardware.

    b. A Disputed billing issue. let say that someone tries the game and then cancels? SoE HAS had some issues here with billing after cancelation. The upset customer contacts customer service who say that they will fix the problem, only to now have to go to the other side of the preverbial house and talk to SoE accounting about this. The customer posit that they canceled on x date (customer service as the adovcate bacs them up), So# says well per our records the customer did nto cancel till y date.

    c. there is periods of lag or uneven play experince. see friction point a. it will be the same thing.;

    Like it or not reputation of a game and how players are treated does in fact count alot in the word of mouth recommndation and long term viablity of a game.

    I was looking for a nice deep, rich, complex game to enjoy.  When you look at the past history of SoE and thier actions on a broad front(not just SWG), well yes i am concerned. To say that it can never happen to this game, what ever IT is, is a bit niave. I think most of that are not foaming at teh mouth would be overjoyed to see this game take off and be a big hit, but I am willing to bet that alot are goign to wait and see, not about the game (sadly), but on how SoE comports themselves in ragards to the earlier players of the game.

    Is that fair?

    p.s. telling people to either "shut up" or "go away" on a forums is like waving a steak at a hungry dog. "

    To which the pro-sigil/pro-brad can do no wrong in the foruum across the way went quickly to the insult and ignore level that I have sadly grown to expect there.

    Safe to say that after dealing that forum I can see why the staff placed the stickies. It is amazing to me when a the dabate/agrument goes from a reasonable trading of view points to "get over it n00bs" or you suck, soe sucks, the sky is purple.


  • Wildcat84Wildcat84 Member Posts: 2,304

    If it has SOE or Sony anywhere on it or near it, or is going to make a dollar from it, it's automatically in my "do not buy" list.  Sony is among the most evil, anti consumer corporations in the world.  Furthermore, their products are shit (not the shit).




  • LilTLilT Member Posts: 631
    I'll say what i did in the other thread, soe may not have any dev rights now, but who is to say that they wont get them down the line? I dont know the workings of the deal, but i do know that soe has more money and power than sigil, and if they want to take over vanguard in the future, they will.

    For the Horde!

  • Wildcat84Wildcat84 Member Posts: 2,304


    Originally posted by LilT
    I'll say what i did in the other thread, soe may not have any dev rights now, but who is to say that they wont get them down the line? I dont know the workings of the deal, but i do know that soe has more money and power than sigil, and if they want to take over vanguard in the future, they will.



    If the game shows any semblance of success, SOE buys Sigil.  No question in my mind that that will happen.


  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182


    Originally posted by Wildcat84

    If it has SOE or Sony anywhere on it or near it, or is going to make a dollar from it, it's automatically in my "do not buy" list.  Sony is among the most evil, anti consumer corporations in the world.  Furthermore, their products are shit (not the shit).






    Oh really ? Wasn't I just reading a post on SWG's forums . Where you were trying to flame Rival members who had quit and just come back ? Stating You and Foad have been here since the NGE went Live and they haven't (which was in some way  supposed to put you on a higher level  of uberness ?) ? You have been playing Since The NGE went Live and as far as I know still are . Trying to get brownie points from the community here ?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • kefkahkefkah Member Posts: 832


    Originally posted by Malickiebloo

    Originally posted by Wildcat84
    If it has SOE or Sony anywhere on it or near it, or is going to make a dollar from it, it's automatically in my "do not buy" list.  Sony is among the most evil, anti consumer corporations in the world.  Furthermore, their products are shit (not the shit).


    Oh really ? Wasn't I just reading a post on SWG's forums . Where you were trying to flame Rival members who had quit and just come back ? Stating You and Foad have been here since the NGE went Live and they haven't (which was in some way  supposed to put you on a higher level  of uberness ?) ? You have been playing Since The NGE went Live and as far as I know still are . Trying to get brownie points from the community here ?


    This is just like the comic books nowdays. Full of crossovers that span crappy titles. New Mutants FTW!
  • CymdaiCymdai Member UncommonPosts: 1,041
    I think this thread should be a required reading for all people who register for this site.

    Consumer need to be aware of SOE's past, so that they realize the tops and bottoms of the MMORPG industry. There are some very valid points all over the board, if someone really wanted to make an All-star post, they should make a compilation of material, similar to the 'Mourning; Unethical Business practices and horrible game' thread.

    It was a well-documented thread regarding the worst MMO, as well as the worst publisher and development team in the history of the industry.

    Unfortunately, no one seems to be willing to go and spend 3 hours making 1 post

    My 2 cents; SOE is the poster-child for corporate greed among their consumer/customers interests, tremendous pandering/copouts, and inexplicably lazy development teams and weak content upgrades.

    Case and point; SWG, Planetside, The Matrix Online

    I will personally never give SOE  another dime for as long as I live, period.


    Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...

  • achesomaachesoma Member UncommonPosts: 1,083
    To be fair, MXO was FUBAR before SOE took it over.
    Image result for pantheon mmo banners
  • royalpenaltyroyalpenalty Member Posts: 312
    anti NGE threads should not get buried either. 

    SWG ADDICT...clean since the NGE

  • xPaladinxPaladin Member Posts: 741


    Originally posted by kefkah

    Originally posted by Malickiebloo

    Originally posted by Wildcat84
    If it has SOE or Sony anywhere on it or near it, or is going to make a dollar from it, it's automatically in my "do not buy" list.  Sony is among the most evil, anti consumer corporations in the world.  Furthermore, their products are shit (not the shit).


    Oh really ? Wasn't I just reading a post on SWG's forums . Where you were trying to flame Rival members who had quit and just come back ? Stating You and Foad have been here since the NGE went Live and they haven't (which was in some way  supposed to put you on a higher level  of uberness ?) ? You have been playing Since The NGE went Live and as far as I know still are . Trying to get brownie points from the community here ?


    This is just like the comic books nowdays. Full of crossovers that span crappy titles. New Mutants FTW!

    That's been the Bloodfin political climate ever since 2004 when GarVa came in and started deleting all the good threads.

    Ye Olde Bloodfin would've had Malickie posting some kind of photoshop of Wildcat and talking a lot more smack. Furthermore, he wouldn't have that "it's only an opinion" caption in his sig (nor would he have a "this opinion is my own and does not reflect upon my guild" caption in his sig, but that doesn't apply here).

    Bloodfin might never have done PvP "right" (sorry, the pre-AXIS Imperial Alliance pwned NOR so very hardcore), but we knew board warrioring. I'd post examples but as I said, they all got deleted. Needless to say, they made for very entertaining lunch hours. EVERY DAY.

    -- xpaladin

    [MMOz]
    AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182


    Originally posted by xPaladin

    Originally posted by kefkah

    Originally posted by Malickiebloo

    Originally posted by Wildcat84
    If it has SOE or Sony anywhere on it or near it, or is going to make a dollar from it, it's automatically in my "do not buy" list.  Sony is among the most evil, anti consumer corporations in the world.  Furthermore, their products are shit (not the shit).


    Oh really ? Wasn't I just reading a post on SWG's forums . Where you were trying to flame Rival members who had quit and just come back ? Stating You and Foad have been here since the NGE went Live and they haven't (which was in some way  supposed to put you on a higher level  of uberness ?) ? You have been playing Since The NGE went Live and as far as I know still are . Trying to get brownie points from the community here ?


    This is just like the comic books nowdays. Full of crossovers that span crappy titles. New Mutants FTW!

    That's been the Bloodfin political climate ever since 2004 when GarVa came in and started deleting all the good threads.

    Ye Olde Bloodfin would've had Malickie posting some kind of photoshop of Wildcat and talking a lot more smack. Furthermore, he wouldn't have that "it's only an opinion" caption in his sig (nor would he have a "this opinion is my own and does not reflect upon my guild" caption in his sig, but that doesn't apply here).

    Bloodfin might never have done PvP "right" (sorry, the pre-AXIS Imperial Alliance pwned NOR so very hardcore), but we knew board warrioring. I'd post examples but as I said, they all got deleted. Needless to say, they made for very entertaining lunch hours. EVERY DAY.


    LOL isn't that the truth hahah . If i posted how I would on bloodfin here. People would hate me even more than they already do LOL .

    Speaking of Bloodfin last night was like a flash back watching a friend play . Saw a bunch of old names running around .

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • iceman00iceman00 Member Posts: 1,363


    Originally posted by Na'vi
    Originally posted by Wakizashi
    I would just like to point out that SOE gets royalties for hosting Vanguard.  This is admitted by Brad McQuaid on teh VSOH forums.  Its not just a service fee, its a royalty.  Vanguard can't publish the game by themselves and Microsoft already tossed them aside.  You better believe SOE will slide its hand up VAnguard's skirt.
    ACTUALLY, Sigil tossed Microsoft aside. 

    Brad left Microsoft because they were trying to influence the development of the game.  I am no fan of SOE, but he would not have turned around and went to SOE if they were going to do the same thing.  He is well aware of SOE's reputation and what they have done in the past.  He had to have taken the precautions to ensure SOE does not "slide its hand up VAnguard's skirt."  SOE knows Vanguard is going to be a good game.  Of course they want a piece of the action (especially with SWG subscriptions down). 

    Granted, I am still a little cautious of SOE's new role, but I am still willing to give Vanguard a shot.

    Just some random thoughts


    Umm if i remember, nobody really knows who broke up with who, slipping on their clothes while the other one slept.  Some say it's because Microsoft realized that an MMO this narrowly tailored was not worth the money, others say it's because they attempted to change it and brad resisted, others say $OE made him an offer he couldn't refuse, and MS was getting sick of Brad.  For all we know it could be a mutual breakup.
  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden Member UncommonPosts: 4,333

    Its unbelievable that this $OE egghaeds runs this pile of NGE crap and fools 50k of people with there cheesy "starwarsy" universe.
    The expectations of both- smelly smeds company and nge gamer- must be very low.

    Some serious company has to take over keep the spirit of star wars and put this $OE jokers out of this grandiose universe.

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

This discussion has been closed.