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The Official "We're Angry at SOE" thread

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  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182


    Originally posted by mystitigger


    Originally posted by LickyDickyoo
    Man oh man I was away on business for a few months, and so I come back in here to see whats going on since its been like 7 months since the NGE and people are still goin on about this game. Wow this is sad. Has not anyone moved on in life and done something else.



    Take your pro-nge self somewhere else! This is the "SOE suXXor" thread! ::::01::


    He does have a point

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • Zuel41Zuel41 Member Posts: 43

    Originally posted by Stradden

    OK Guys,
    I think there has been some misinterpretation of the purpose of this thread. First off, let me say that I do understand where you’re coming from and that you have every right to be angry about what happened. In fact, we printed an editorial about this back in November that you can take another look at, here.

    The purpose of this thread is for you guys to vent your frustrations in one place. It does not mean that you can never say anything negative about SOE in the forums. My concern on that front is that it is being said over and over again, and the purpose of threads is being lost in the clutter. My concern is NOT that people are talking negatively about SOE. I personally don’t blame anyone who is angry over this issue. You have a valid gripe, and I understand that.

    Let me give you an analogy that might shed some light on my reasoning: I travel a lot for this job. While traveling recently, I was approached at the airport by a member of a religious group who wanted to share his opinions (in this case about religion) with me. I had nothing else to do, and I generally keep an open mind, so I listened. He finished, and we parted ways.  Honestly, not a bad encounter. I came away knowing a little bit more than I once did about his particular religion, and he felt good about having spread the information that he felt that it was important that I know. That's a relatively healthy exchange.










    While I would consider that to be a good exchange of ideas, and a good conversation. I walk away respecting his opinions and the religion as a whole. I would not have felt the same way if a moment later, another person had joined him, telling me the same things. Then another, then another. Suddenly, I have a whole group of people, all telling me about their ideas and feelings about something that I have already decided is not for me. They follow me to baggage claim, and all the way to my taxi when I leave the airport, relieved to be away from them.










    Let's assume for a moment that I travel to this airport frequently. I actually enjoy the city that I'm going to. But every time I go there, there are new groups of people, telling me the same things about the same religion. It drives me crazy. Do I get mad at the religion as a whole? Probably not (much). You can't judge a large group of people on the actions of a few. So, how do I deal with the situation? I probably stop going through that particular airport.

    MMORPG.com is the airport in this situation. We’re trying to avoid people getting bombarded with the same information, again and again, from multiple sources. That’s all.

    That being said, things have also gotten severely out of hand in terms of a few people regularly breaking the rules. I will remind you that personal attacks against people who disagree with you will not be tolerated. Personal attacks, death threats and the like against developers from ANY company will not be tolerated. It all appears very clearly in our RoC, and the moderating team will be cracking down on such activities. You can hate the game, you can hate the company, but you cannot use our boards to promote the hatred of people.
    Cheers,
    Jon "Stradden" Wood, Community Manager


    Jon,

    With all due respect, I think you are missing the point.  There are many of of us that feel, and as you point out several times, that SOE has done us wrong.  What's missing from your analysis and reporting is the broader perspective on how SOE's behavior affects MMOs in general.   I think that there is a consensus that what SOE did was wrong on several levels and bad for SWG in general, but I have yet to read anything that really expresses that. 

    Here are some of the things I think a real investigative report would look at:

    1. How has the NGE affected the number of subsribers to SWG?
    2. How has the NGE affected SOE number of subscribers to other SOE games?
    3. Did SOE expect that the fan base would unleash as big a storm of hate as they have?
    4. Have other gaming companies noticed that they can not control how the player base reacts to changes? 
    5. Has SOE been engaged in a guerilla marketing ploy that seeds independant forums with positive posts in an effort to counteract the negative publicity? 
    6. How has this benefitted other games?  Have you ask Bliz, or other shops?
    7. Has the NGE changed the way other MMOs look at changes to their games?
    8. Has SOEs bundling of all the Station Games blurred the picture and allowed SOE to "hide" the issues with NGE?

    I am sure that there are other questions and angles that you could think up.  Of course, if this thread is in reaction to pressure from SOE, then I am fairly sure that these questions and others like them will never be asked or answered. 

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182


    Originally posted by Zuel41

    Originally posted by Stradden

    OK Guys,
    I think there has been some misinterpretation of the purpose of this thread. First off, let me say that I do understand where you’re coming from and that you have every right to be angry about what happened. In fact, we printed an editorial about this back in November that you can take another look at, here.

    The purpose of this thread is for you guys to vent your frustrations in one place. It does not mean that you can never say anything negative about SOE in the forums. My concern on that front is that it is being said over and over again, and the purpose of threads is being lost in the clutter. My concern is NOT that people are talking negatively about SOE. I personally don’t blame anyone who is angry over this issue. You have a valid gripe, and I understand that.

    Let me give you an analogy that might shed some light on my reasoning: I travel a lot for this job. While traveling recently, I was approached at the airport by a member of a religious group who wanted to share his opinions (in this case about religion) with me. I had nothing else to do, and I generally keep an open mind, so I listened. He finished, and we parted ways.  Honestly, not a bad encounter. I came away knowing a little bit more than I once did about his particular religion, and he felt good about having spread the information that he felt that it was important that I know. That's a relatively healthy exchange.











    While I would consider that to be a good exchange of ideas, and a good conversation. I walk away respecting his opinions and the religion as a whole. I would not have felt the same way if a moment later, another person had joined him, telling me the same things. Then another, then another. Suddenly, I have a whole group of people, all telling me about their ideas and feelings about something that I have already decided is not for me. They follow me to baggage claim, and all the way to my taxi when I leave the airport, relieved to be away from them.











    Let's assume for a moment that I travel to this airport frequently. I actually enjoy the city that I'm going to. But every time I go there, there are new groups of people, telling me the same things about the same religion. It drives me crazy. Do I get mad at the religion as a whole? Probably not (much). You can't judge a large group of people on the actions of a few. So, how do I deal with the situation? I probably stop going through that particular airport.

    MMORPG.com is the airport in this situation. We’re trying to avoid people getting bombarded with the same information, again and again, from multiple sources. That’s all.

    That being said, things have also gotten severely out of hand in terms of a few people regularly breaking the rules. I will remind you that personal attacks against people who disagree with you will not be tolerated. Personal attacks, death threats and the like against developers from ANY company will not be tolerated. It all appears very clearly in our RoC, and the moderating team will be cracking down on such activities. You can hate the game, you can hate the company, but you cannot use our boards to promote the hatred of people.
    Cheers,
    Jon "Stradden" Wood, Community Manager



    Jon,

    With all due respect, I think you are missing the point.  There are many of of us that feel, and as you point out several times, that SOE has done us wrong.  What's missing from your analysis and reporting is the broader perspective on how SOE's behavior affects MMOs in general.   I think that there is a consensus that what SOE did was wrong on several levels and bad for SWG in general, but I have yet to read anything that really expresses that. 

    Here are some of the things I think a real investigative report would look at:

    1. How has the NGE affected the number of subsribers to SWG?
    2. How has the NGE affected SOE number of subscribers to other SOE games?
    3. Did SOE expect that the fan base would unleash as big a storm of hate as they have?
    4. Have other gaming companies noticed that they can not control how the player base reacts to changes? 
    5. Has SOE been engaged in a guerilla marketing ploy that seeds independant forums with positive posts in an effort to counteract the negative publicity? 
    6. How has this benefitted other games?  Have you ask Bliz, or other shops?
    7. Has the NGE changed the way other MMOs look at changes to their games?
    8. Has SOEs bundling of all the Station Games blurred the picture and allowed SOE to "hide" the issues with NGE?

    I am sure that there are other questions and angles that you could think up.  Of course, if this thread is in reaction to pressure from SOE, then I am fairly sure that these questions and others like them will never be asked or answered. 



    Here is an Idea , Create your own site and report on such things .

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • azgarthazgarth Member UncommonPosts: 188

    I have several boxes of a game that doesn't exist anymore, and the last one is from November, so yes I am Angry at SOE for selling me something that was not planed. Thank you for the +10 taming necklace and the improvements to my profession. I can now sit and watch my nearly 3 years of effords and training down the drain, replaced by something that I don't even call a MMORPG anymore and would never pay to play.

    You can kill a Master Creature Handler, but he will raise from the ashes as a better Hunter.  

  • kaibigan34kaibigan34 Member Posts: 1,508


    Originally posted by Stradden

    OK Guys,
    I think there has been some misinterpretation of the purpose of this thread. First off, let me say that I do understand where you’re coming from and that you have every right to be angry about what happened. In fact, we printed an editorial about this back in November that you can take another look at, here.

    The purpose of this thread is for you guys to vent your frustrations in one place. It does not mean that you can never say anything negative about SOE in the forums. My concern on that front is that it is being said over and over again, and the purpose of threads is being lost in the clutter. My concern is NOT that people are talking negatively about SOE. I personally don’t blame anyone who is angry over this issue. You have a valid gripe, and I understand that.

    Let me give you an analogy that might shed some light on my reasoning: I travel a lot for this job. While traveling recently, I was approached at the airport by a member of a religious group who wanted to share his opinions (in this case about religion) with me. I had nothing else to do, and I generally keep an open mind, so I listened. He finished, and we parted ways.  Honestly, not a bad encounter. I came away knowing a little bit more than I once did about his particular religion, and he felt good about having spread the information that he felt that it was important that I know. That's a relatively healthy exchange.







    While I would consider that to be a good exchange of ideas, and a good conversation. I walk away respecting his opinions and the religion as a whole. I would not have felt the same way if a moment later, another person had joined him, telling me the same things. Then another, then another. Suddenly, I have a whole group of people, all telling me about their ideas and feelings about something that I have already decided is not for me. They follow me to baggage claim, and all the way to my taxi when I leave the airport, relieved to be away from them.







    Let's assume for a moment that I travel to this airport frequently. I actually enjoy the city that I'm going to. But every time I go there, there are new groups of people, telling me the same things about the same religion. It drives me crazy. Do I get mad at the religion as a whole? Probably not (much). You can't judge a large group of people on the actions of a few. So, how do I deal with the situation? I probably stop going through that particular airport.

    MMORPG.com is the airport in this situation. We’re trying to avoid people getting bombarded with the same information, again and again, from multiple sources. That’s all.

    That being said, things have also gotten severely out of hand in terms of a few people regularly breaking the rules. I will remind you that personal attacks against people who disagree with you will not be tolerated. Personal attacks, death threats and the like against developers from ANY company will not be tolerated. It all appears very clearly in our RoC, and the moderating team will be cracking down on such activities. You can hate the game, you can hate the company, but you cannot use our boards to promote the hatred of people.
    Cheers,
    Jon "Stradden" Wood, Community Manager


    Stradden

    Not a good analogy there my friend. Your in an airport and someone talks to you about religion then the thing about what if more and more people talk to you about that religion. Then comparing MMORPG.com to that situation...

    You go to an airport to travel. Not discuss religion exclusively. MMORPG.com you go to for MMOs. To discuss MMOs exclusively. It would be more akin to going to a religious convention (I would love to see those fights break out BTW) and one group discussed their religion alot. Which would happen. You would be bombarded with people giving the same info over and over. Or going to an airport and discussing travelling with fellow passengers. Which again would happen. I travel alot too and can tell you I have the same conversations about travel or other things related to travel alot.

    Here is another analogy. What if the American Press decided to no longer discuss or deliver news on the war overseas because its old news? Its started several years ago after all. Things are happening everyday over there because of that war. But things are happening over at SWG everyday because of SOE and the developers as well.

    Because that is what this is. Its a war. Not one with guns and missles. But it is a battle. SOE versus the gaming community. A corporation versus the consumer. And sorry to say, but this is one of the many battlefields. And this is one of the only battlefields where our weapons arent taken from us. On other places they wont let us post negative things or criticisms about the game. Like they are taking away our guns or tanks. And is it no wonder that the SOE developers hardly ever post here? I think they did once a long time ago. They wont because they know their lies and bullspat wont fly. I would love to see Smed try and spend a day on these forums discussing this game and trying to justify SWG and the NGE.

    As for the personal attacks and death threats, completely understood there. No worries there. But please remember the door should swing both ways.

    Now let me ask you something. You dont want us rehashing the samething over and over. Ok no worries. But what about when someone comes to ask about SWG? Someone that never played before wants opinions on the game? Will we have to keep our mouths shut since we said it all before?

    Hmmm what about the people who repeatably bring up the Pros of SWG. They not allowed to talk about how good SWG is anymore? I know of a few people who basically kept saying the samethings over and over again about how wonderful it is and pointing out repeatedly specific things.

    Oh and just after the NGE was released, the developers, said the game would be finished in 6 months. Yet 6 months are almost over. So why not do another editorial on that? Maybe an interview with a developer or two so they can explain why its still going on and looks like it will be yet another year more.

    Anyways no worries. You seem like a decent bloke. I can repress reposting the same old thing. Thanks to SOE and the developers I can go to the SWG forums and pull out any number of new posts from them everyday. They are predictable and consistent to say the least.

    Kai


  • VexinVexin Member Posts: 297


    Originally posted by Malickiebloo
    I just can't belive how so many of you feel you deserve special treatment . 



    We deserve the treatment for which we as customers pay.  Unlike other month-to-month services (like your Cable or water), an MMO is an investment of your time as well as your money.  Players have a vested interest in a game because of this.  SOE blantantly thumbed their nose at this investment and effectively destroyed it.  How can you not expect us to thumb our noses (in whatever form that might take) in return?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    As ye SOE, so shall ye weep.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182


    Originally posted by Vexin

    Originally posted by Malickiebloo
    I just can't belive how so many of you feel you deserve special treatment . 


    We deserve the treatment for which we as customers pay.  Unlike other month-to-month services (like your Cable or water), an MMO is an investment of your time as well as your money.  Players have a vested interest in a game because of this.  SOE blantantly thumbed their nose at this investment and effectively destroyed it.  How can you not expect us to thumb our noses (in whatever form that might take) in return?


    You expect this site and its employees to jump on your crusade ? There are plenty of people who hate Blizzard , Ncsoft , CCP and many other developers . Do you see them here yelling for this site to write up an article about them ?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • thepkerthepker Member Posts: 192

    Lets open the OACM

    (order of anticruelty to mmorpgs) :)

  • Zuel41Zuel41 Member Posts: 43


    Originally posted by Malickiebloo
    Here is an Idea , Create your own site and report on such things .


    I don't consider myself a journalist, but I assume that these people do.  I would think that would be their perview.
  • kaibigan34kaibigan34 Member Posts: 1,508


    Originally posted by anarchyart

    Originally posted by kaibigan34

    Originally posted by Lepidus



    Sorry but, if its the review I am thinking about, all you did was accept SOE's canned answers and never delved any deeper then that. Not an insult to you. Just my opinion. I feel as if you just jotted down a quick email with some questions then waited for the answers. Never took it further then that. That isnt reporting on something. Its the bare minimum. Just scratching the surface.

    Then go start a website or apply for a job at MMORPG.com. I for one would love to read your reviews. The point he made about this issue being burned out and that anyone who is genuninely interested in the game being chased out of town by a pitchfork and torch bearing mob is true.

    I would love to let it rest. I would love to just go on. But first, my game is dead. One that I enjoyed. All because of 8 guys filling out a poll. And second I, or no one that feels like I do, can let it rest. The day we let it rest is the day SOE gets away with it. I must keep it in the front. Not let them come along and put all sorts of media spin on it and bury it.

    At some point you have to forgive and forget. There are just so many parallels that can be drawn from this story to other ones that make this story so meaningless and petty. Women being raped who have forgiven their attackers, Mothers who have buried there sons and daughters who have forgiven their slayers. They managed to forgive acts of such an unforgivable nature, yet you and your ilk seem unable to just be human and forgive. It's lame and petty.

    I am not too worried about that. With SOE's current track record, there is no end to them making mistakes. Thereby giving us new chances to make more posts outside this thread.
    Every company makes mistakes, every one. Mcdonalds made the Mcrib, Coca-Cola made new coke, or as Doug Hefernen and I refer to it, syrupy pisswater. I hope a game comes out that takes the place of what SWG once was to you, but put me on record as saying it won't happen. It's the past that you mourn, as do I. I've just come to terms with it.


    Kai

    Me


    Kai


    Me


    I can understand if someone asks about the game and then is chased out because they sound interested. But if someone asks about the game and people post only their opinions about the game I cant see that as bad. Afterall the guy asked.

    And on the forgive and forget tip. If a woman forgives a rapist or a parent forgiving the murderer of their child I am willing to bet the criminal is in jail facing punishment at the time. And the person usually apologized as well. SOE has not been punished nor have they apologized for what they did and are still doing.

    Its not about a mistake or a few mistakes. Its about continious mistakes, lies, and ignoring the wants and desires of the community at large. If McDonalds put out the McRib then the HU (Hamburger Upgrade) McRib because of the failed first attempt and then the NSE (New Sandwich Enhancement) McRib it would be a valid point. But they didnt. Those companies made a mistake but they corrected them. SOE on the other hand screwed up and continues to screw up with each publish.

    I dont blame anyone for a mistake. But I do expect them to correct them. Something SOE refuses to do. Because there is only two things they can do to correct it and they refuse to even try. In fact the only thing they do is cover them up with lies and media spin. How can I say "Oh well its the past SOE. Your forgiven. Correct it and lets move on." when they refuse to correct it and continue making the same mistakes over and over?

    Kai
  • Wildcat84Wildcat84 Member Posts: 2,304


    Originally posted by Malickiebloo

    Originally posted by Vexin

    Originally posted by Malickiebloo
    I just can't belive how so many of you feel you deserve special treatment . 


    We deserve the treatment for which we as customers pay.  Unlike other month-to-month services (like your Cable or water), an MMO is an investment of your time as well as your money.  Players have a vested interest in a game because of this.  SOE blantantly thumbed their nose at this investment and effectively destroyed it.  How can you not expect us to thumb our noses (in whatever form that might take) in return?


    You expect this site and its employees to jump on your crusade ? There are plenty of people who hate Blizzard , Ncsoft , CCP and many other developers . Do you see them here yelling for this site to write up an article about them ?



    Join the crusade?  No.

    But this purports to be a news site.  The fact that this much rage STILL exists after this much time, so bad that it even has fans of other upcoming MMO's up in arms just by ANY involvement by SOE with their product is a NEWS STORY.

    _ALL_ the anger at SOE comes from the CU and NGE debacles with SWG.  No one wants SOE involved with their MMO that they play because they don't want such things happening to THEM AND THEIR communities.

    In fact, the only people who play SOE MMO's who are happy are the EQ players.

    That again, is a news story.

    Indeed, the legacy of SWG is that there is already a built in base of MMO players out there who will automatically  reject the idea of playing a MMO just because of SOE involvement.

    Not only that, others who never played SWG, but who know someone who has/does, or who has seen one of the many mainstream news media stories about the unethical treatment of SWG players probably avoid SOE. 

    SOE's repuation for shitting on customers has probably hurt their subscription numbers in all theri games.

    Again, studying that, interviewing people, seeing if that is true or not (it most assuredly is) is a news story...


  • LeasaLeasa Member Posts: 449


    Originally posted by Malickiebloo

    Originally posted by Vexin

    Originally posted by Malickiebloo
    I just can't belive how so many of you feel you deserve special treatment . 
    We deserve the treatment for which we as customers pay.  Unlike other month-to-month services (like your Cable or water), an MMO is an investment of your time as well as your money.  Players have a vested interest in a game because of this.  SOE blantantly thumbed their nose at this investment and effectively destroyed it.  How can you not expect us to thumb our noses (in whatever form that might take) in return?


    You expect this site and its employees to jump on your crusade ? There are plenty of people who hate Blizzard , Ncsoft , CCP and many other developers . Do you see them here yelling for this site to write up an article about them ?


    Do you see MMORPG putting a sticky for complaints in their forums ??  No you dont. Following their logic and yours they should.


    Support Bacteria, its the only culture some people have.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182


    Originally posted by Wildcat84

    Originally posted by Malickiebloo

    Originally posted by Vexin

    Originally posted by Malickiebloo
    I just can't belive how so many of you feel you deserve special treatment . 


    We deserve the treatment for which we as customers pay.  Unlike other month-to-month services (like your Cable or water), an MMO is an investment of your time as well as your money.  Players have a vested interest in a game because of this.  SOE blantantly thumbed their nose at this investment and effectively destroyed it.  How can you not expect us to thumb our noses (in whatever form that might take) in return?


    You expect this site and its employees to jump on your crusade ? There are plenty of people who hate Blizzard , Ncsoft , CCP and many other developers . Do you see them here yelling for this site to write up an article about them ?



    Join the crusade?  No.

    But this purports to be a news site.  The fact that this much rage STILL exists after this much time, so bad that it even has fans of other upcoming MMO's up in arms just by ANY involvement by SOE with their product is a NEWS STORY.

    _ALL_ the anger at SOE comes from the CU and NGE debacles with SWG.  No one wants SOE involved with their MMO that they play because they don't want such things happening to THEM AND THEIR communities.

    In fact, the only people who play SOE MMO's who are happy are the EQ players.

    That again, is a news story.

    Indeed, the legacy of SWG is that there is already a built in base of MMO players out there who will automatically  reject the idea of playing a MMO just because of SOE involvement.

    Not only that, others who never played SWG, but who know someone who has/does, or who has seen one of the many mainstream news media stories about the unethical treatment of SWG players probably avoid SOE. 

    SOE's repuation for shitting on customers has probably hurt their subscription numbers in all theri games.

    Again, studying that, interviewing people, seeing if that is true or not (it most assuredly is) is a news story...




    Yes but opinions are not news , News is what this site does . If SWG has a change in place they will make an article about it . The same deal goes for darkand light , WHen they report on the game , They mention the disappointment of the fans thus far . But leave it at that . The second they go any further They jump from a news piece to an opinion piece .

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182


    Originally posted by Leasa

    Originally posted by Malickiebloo

    Originally posted by Vexin

    Originally posted by Malickiebloo
    I just can't belive how so many of you feel you deserve special treatment . 
    We deserve the treatment for which we as customers pay.  Unlike other month-to-month services (like your Cable or water), an MMO is an investment of your time as well as your money.  Players have a vested interest in a game because of this.  SOE blantantly thumbed their nose at this investment and effectively destroyed it.  How can you not expect us to thumb our noses (in whatever form that might take) in return?


    You expect this site and its employees to jump on your crusade ? There are plenty of people who hate Blizzard , Ncsoft , CCP and many other developers . Do you see them here yelling for this site to write up an article about them ?


    Do you see MMORPG putting a sticky for complaints in their forums ??  No you dont. Following their logic and yours they should.



    We are in one :P

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • kymekyme Member Posts: 411
    Can we have someone ask questions concerning the possibility of PRE-CU Servers to a SWG employee who can answer them?
  • Wildcat84Wildcat84 Member Posts: 2,304


    Originally posted by kyme
    Can we have someone ask questions concerning the possibility of PRE-CU Servers to a SWG employee who can answer them?

    It's been asked, and they say no.

    Why they don't right now is obvious, no one would play on any other servers (Smed and JT have admitted that the vast majority of those playing are pre-NGE players, so the NGE hasn't attracted a significant number of new ones).

    Only when they give up on the NGE delusion, and faced with it as the last chance to squeeze some more cash out of the game will they do classic servers.

  • britocabritoca Member Posts: 1,484


    Originally posted by Malickiebloo

    Originally posted by Vexin

    Originally posted by Malickiebloo
    I just can't belive how so many of you feel you deserve special treatment . 


    We deserve the treatment for which we as customers pay.  Unlike other month-to-month services (like your Cable or water), an MMO is an investment of your time as well as your money.  Players have a vested interest in a game because of this.  SOE blantantly thumbed their nose at this investment and effectively destroyed it.  How can you not expect us to thumb our noses (in whatever form that might take) in return?


    You expect this site and its employees to jump on your crusade ? There are plenty of people who hate Blizzard , Ncsoft , CCP and many other developers . Do you see them here yelling for this site to write up an article about them ?




    I don't think any of those companies took equivalent steps at modifying an mmo so drastically, ever.  This wasn't a modification, mind you, it was a release of a new game which trampled and substituted the old game.
    That creates a lot of adeversity from the existing community.

    For its uniqueness, this situation does deserve more attention, imho, so that other companies don't treat their gamers like garba... errrr...  children.

    -virtual tourist
    want your game back?
    image

  • britocabritoca Member Posts: 1,484


    Originally posted by Malickiebloo

    Originally posted by Wildcat84

    Originally posted by Malickiebloo

    Originally posted by Vexin

    Originally posted by Malickiebloo
    I just can't belive how so many of you feel you deserve special treatment . 


    We deserve the treatment for which we as customers pay.  Unlike other month-to-month services (like your Cable or water), an MMO is an investment of your time as well as your money.  Players have a vested interest in a game because of this.  SOE blantantly thumbed their nose at this investment and effectively destroyed it.  How can you not expect us to thumb our noses (in whatever form that might take) in return?


    You expect this site and its employees to jump on your crusade ? There are plenty of people who hate Blizzard , Ncsoft , CCP and many other developers . Do you see them here yelling for this site to write up an article about them ?



    Join the crusade?  No.

    But this purports to be a news site.  The fact that this much rage STILL exists after this much time, so bad that it even has fans of other upcoming MMO's up in arms just by ANY involvement by SOE with their product is a NEWS STORY.

    _ALL_ the anger at SOE comes from the CU and NGE debacles with SWG.  No one wants SOE involved with their MMO that they play because they don't want such things happening to THEM AND THEIR communities.

    In fact, the only people who play SOE MMO's who are happy are the EQ players.

    That again, is a news story.

    Indeed, the legacy of SWG is that there is already a built in base of MMO players out there who will automatically  reject the idea of playing a MMO just because of SOE involvement.

    Not only that, others who never played SWG, but who know someone who has/does, or who has seen one of the many mainstream news media stories about the unethical treatment of SWG players probably avoid SOE. 

    SOE's repuation for shitting on customers has probably hurt their subscription numbers in all theri games.

    Again, studying that, interviewing people, seeing if that is true or not (it most assuredly is) is a news story...




    Yes but opinions are not news , News is what this site does . If SWG has a change in place they will make an article about it . The same deal goes for darkand light , WHen they report on the game , They mention the disappointment of the fans thus far . But leave it at that . The second they go any further They jump from a news piece to an opinion piece .


    So what?  They (no just mmorpg.com) give plenty of voice to the companies, interviews, interviews, interviews.  If that's not company opinion, I don't know what is.
    Player opinion should also be included in articles and not just be left to the forum landscape.

    -virtual tourist
    want your game back?
    image

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182


    Originally posted by britoca

    Originally posted by Malickiebloo

    Originally posted by Vexin

    Originally posted by Malickiebloo
    I just can't belive how so many of you feel you deserve special treatment . 


    We deserve the treatment for which we as customers pay.  Unlike other month-to-month services (like your Cable or water), an MMO is an investment of your time as well as your money.  Players have a vested interest in a game because of this.  SOE blantantly thumbed their nose at this investment and effectively destroyed it.  How can you not expect us to thumb our noses (in whatever form that might take) in return?


    You expect this site and its employees to jump on your crusade ? There are plenty of people who hate Blizzard , Ncsoft , CCP and many other developers . Do you see them here yelling for this site to write up an article about them ?




    I don't think any of those companies took equivalent steps at modifying an mmo so drastically, ever.  This wasn't a modification, mind you, it was a release of a new game which trampled and substituted the old game.
    That creates a lot of adeversity from the existing community.

    For its uniqueness, this situation does deserve more attention, imho, so that other companies don't treat their gamers like garba... errrr...  children.


    Yes but opinions are not news , News is what this site does . If SWG
    has a change in place they will make an article about it . The same
    deal goes for darkand light , WHen they report on the game , They
    mention the disappointment of the fans thus far . But leave it at that
    . The second they go any further They jump from a news piece to an
    opinion piece

    Sorry to paste an answer to another post but it does apply to this as well .

    They did an article on this site about whether the changes were a fair move or not . There is clicky in one of the mods posts to it .

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182


    Originally posted by britoca

    Originally posted by Malickiebloo

    Originally posted by Wildcat84

    Originally posted by Malickiebloo

    Originally posted by Vexin

    Originally posted by Malickiebloo
    I just can't belive how so many of you feel you deserve special treatment . 


    We deserve the treatment for which we as customers pay.  Unlike other month-to-month services (like your Cable or water), an MMO is an investment of your time as well as your money.  Players have a vested interest in a game because of this.  SOE blantantly thumbed their nose at this investment and effectively destroyed it.  How can you not expect us to thumb our noses (in whatever form that might take) in return?


    You expect this site and its employees to jump on your crusade ? There are plenty of people who hate Blizzard , Ncsoft , CCP and many other developers . Do you see them here yelling for this site to write up an article about them ?



    Join the crusade?  No.

    But this purports to be a news site.  The fact that this much rage STILL exists after this much time, so bad that it even has fans of other upcoming MMO's up in arms just by ANY involvement by SOE with their product is a NEWS STORY.

    _ALL_ the anger at SOE comes from the CU and NGE debacles with SWG.  No one wants SOE involved with their MMO that they play because they don't want such things happening to THEM AND THEIR communities.

    In fact, the only people who play SOE MMO's who are happy are the EQ players.

    That again, is a news story.

    Indeed, the legacy of SWG is that there is already a built in base of MMO players out there who will automatically  reject the idea of playing a MMO just because of SOE involvement.

    Not only that, others who never played SWG, but who know someone who has/does, or who has seen one of the many mainstream news media stories about the unethical treatment of SWG players probably avoid SOE. 

    SOE's repuation for shitting on customers has probably hurt their subscription numbers in all theri games.

    Again, studying that, interviewing people, seeing if that is true or not (it most assuredly is) is a news story...




    Yes but opinions are not news , News is what this site does . If SWG has a change in place they will make an article about it . The same deal goes for darkand light , WHen they report on the game , They mention the disappointment of the fans thus far . But leave it at that . The second they go any further They jump from a news piece to an opinion piece .


    So what?  They (no just mmorpg.com) give plenty of voice to the companies, interviews, interviews, interviews.  If that's not company opinion, I don't know what is.
    Player opinion should also be included in articles and not just be left to the forum landscape.


    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setview/features/loadFeature/325/gameID/6

    Yes but when they interview it is for the fans , They try and get an idea of its progress and features . That is News in the gaming world that is all any magazine or site usually does .

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • derektoddderektodd Member Posts: 79
    I agree this was a smart thing to do because if anyone wants to really get an idea of what happens when a company decides to destroy a game that is loved by all and expects people to believe the NGE was a needed change.

    Hopefully Lucas will realize our game which was once the best MMO game ever conceptualized is now a piece of crap.


  • kefkahkefkah Member Posts: 832

    As ineffective as I think this thread is - it did end up having one surely unintended positive side effect. SOE now holds the SOLE distinction of having dedicated sticky threads on how they angered (or still anger) thier customer base on one of the premier mmorpg sites. The only other company to receive such outside of the norm treatment on this site in general was Mourning when it was removed.

    WTG SOE! Not only are you the only company to receive this "honor" but you will also make the front page of this site until the mods manually remove it.

  • SagoSago Member Posts: 516


    Originally posted by Stradden


    The purpose of this thread is for you guys to vent your frustrations in one place. It does not mean that you can never say anything negative about SOE in the forums. My concern on that front is that it is being said over and over again, and the purpose of threads is being lost in the clutter. My concern is NOT that people are talking negatively about SOE. I personally don’t blame anyone who is angry over this issue. You have a valid gripe, and I understand that.

    While I would consider that to be a good exchange of ideas, and a good conversation. I walk away respecting his opinions and the religion as a whole. I would not have felt the same way if a moment later, another person had joined him, telling me the same things. Then another, then another. Suddenly, I have a whole group of people, all telling me about their ideas and feelings about something that I have already decided is not for me. They follow me to baggage claim, and all the way to my taxi when I leave the airport, relieved to be away from them.








    MMORPG.com is the airport in this situation. We’re trying to avoid people getting bombarded with the same information, again and again, from multiple sources. That’s all.

    That being said, things have also gotten severely out of hand in terms of a few people regularly breaking the rules. I will remind you that personal attacks against people who disagree with you will not be tolerated. Personal attacks, death threats and the like against developers from ANY company will not be tolerated. It all appears very clearly in our RoC, and the moderating team will be cracking down on such activities. You can hate the game, you can hate the company, but you cannot use our boards to promote the hatred of people.
    Cheers,
    Jon "Stradden" Wood, Community Manager


    Stradden I do understand what you are saying, however, the OVERWHELMING members of this community here is anti$OE and antiNGE. I mean think about it ... 500,000 SWG accounts in July '03 and what 30,000 +/- now leaves a hell of alot of people out there pissed off.

    When someone voices their feelings and/or their negative experieinces regarding $OE in this forum there is always a few that tell them that they don't know what they are talking about and so starts the flame wars. Thus, other will chime in on both sides ... BUT .... there is INFINITELY more anti$OE and antiNGE people here than pro people.

    Now this also works in reverse. People posting stuff like: "SWG is GREAT", "NGE is better than preCU", "the population is increasing", "The game is getting better. Just give it another 6 months" and stuff like that are lying thru their teeth. IF all these things were true then why the mass exodus from the game? Why are people STILL leaving the game? WHY are they HERE instead of playing the game that is so great?

    As far as people seeking help here .... in these forums???? Wrong place to ask for help. Most people here don't play anymore. The BEST place to seek help is in the Official SWG Forums as most of the current" players that KNOW how to answer their question can be found there.

    I would venture to say that the people that are pro$OE and proNGE are usually the people that start the flaming first. Not always .... just usually, probably due to frustration for being so outnumbered. Obraik is one of the few that really doesn't get into the personal attacks too much ... if at all. Because he doesn't, I have rarely seen him personally attacked by someone else (attacked = name calling and such. Having a differing opinion does not qualify as an "attack".) (Unless you are an $OE forum moderator ... sorry had to say it LOL)

    Sago Mactow
    Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
    6/26/03 - 1/26/06
    Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
    DFR Councilman
    Tarq Server

  • ClackamasClackamas Member Posts: 776


    Originally posted by Stradden

    Hi Guys,
    It seems as though there has been quite a bit of SOE hate recently, and it has gotten to the point where it is taking over the forums for SOE games. As a result, I am creating this sticky where people can vent their frustrations on this subject.
    *Edited for Clarity and pasted from a future post:
    I think there has been some misinterpretation of the purpose of this thread. First off, let me say that I do understand where you’re coming from and that you have every right to be angry about what happened. In fact, we printed an editorial about this back in November that you can take another look at, here.

    The purpose of this thread is for you guys to vent your frustrations in one place. It does not mean that you can never say anything negative about SOE in the forums. My concern on that front is that it is being said over and over again, and the purpose of threads is being lost in the clutter. My concern is NOT that people are talking negatively about SOE. I personally don’t blame anyone who is angry over this issue. You have a valid gripe, and I understand that.
    Cheers,

    Jon "Stradden" Wood, Community Manager


    My concern is that you have not done due diligence to the player crowd.  Sure you announce changes by the game companies.  But, that you had to set this thread up (as I pointed out yesterday), that the former player base is still actively angery with SOE and SOE continues to drop the ball.... now that sounds like a good part B: Revenge of the Fans - 7 months later.

    So, lacking such a followup story, I do not appreciate the contaiment you are trying here.  However, if such a story was in the works based on what folks are saying on this forum and others, then your goals would be appreciated.
  • britocabritoca Member Posts: 1,484


    Originally posted by Malickiebloo

    Originally posted by britoca

    Originally posted by Malickiebloo

    Originally posted by Wildcat84

    Originally posted by Malickiebloo

    Originally posted by Vexin

    Originally posted by Malickiebloo
    I just can't belive how so many of you feel you deserve special treatment . 


    We deserve the treatment for which we as customers pay.  Unlike other month-to-month services (like your Cable or water), an MMO is an investment of your time as well as your money.  Players have a vested interest in a game because of this.  SOE blantantly thumbed their nose at this investment and effectively destroyed it.  How can you not expect us to thumb our noses (in whatever form that might take) in return?


    You expect this site and its employees to jump on your crusade ? There are plenty of people who hate Blizzard , Ncsoft , CCP and many other developers . Do you see them here yelling for this site to write up an article about them ?



    Join the crusade?  No.

    But this purports to be a news site.  The fact that this much rage STILL exists after this much time, so bad that it even has fans of other upcoming MMO's up in arms just by ANY involvement by SOE with their product is a NEWS STORY.

    _ALL_ the anger at SOE comes from the CU and NGE debacles with SWG.  No one wants SOE involved with their MMO that they play because they don't want such things happening to THEM AND THEIR communities.

    In fact, the only people who play SOE MMO's who are happy are the EQ players.

    That again, is a news story.

    Indeed, the legacy of SWG is that there is already a built in base of MMO players out there who will automatically  reject the idea of playing a MMO just because of SOE involvement.

    Not only that, others who never played SWG, but who know someone who has/does, or who has seen one of the many mainstream news media stories about the unethical treatment of SWG players probably avoid SOE. 

    SOE's repuation for shitting on customers has probably hurt their subscription numbers in all theri games.

    Again, studying that, interviewing people, seeing if that is true or not (it most assuredly is) is a news story...




    Yes but opinions are not news , News is what this site does . If SWG has a change in place they will make an article about it . The same deal goes for darkand light , WHen they report on the game , They mention the disappointment of the fans thus far . But leave it at that . The second they go any further They jump from a news piece to an opinion piece .


    So what?  They (no just mmorpg.com) give plenty of voice to the companies, interviews, interviews, interviews.  If that's not company opinion, I don't know what is.
    Player opinion should also be included in articles and not just be left to the forum landscape.


    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setview/features/loadFeature/325/gameID/6

    Yes but when they interview it is for the fans , They try and get an idea of its progress and features . That is News in the gaming world that is all any magazine or site usually does .




    Thanks for that link, I hadn't seen it.  Unfortunatly, it's not clear whether he is writing with the NGE already in mind or not.  He mentions only the CU and I don't see NGE mentioned anywhere.  The date (November 23, 2005) is already post-NGE (Nov 15th accodring to wikipedia) so I presume it was already minding the NGE.

    Anyways, yes the interview is indeed for the fans.  However, the interviews are not just informative listings of facts.  They are companies' opinion mixed with the facts.   They state the changes/facts, and they state the companies' reasons for those changes/facts as well.  In other words, when SOE says there will be only 9 classes post NGE, it also states along with it that this is to make the game more iconic and more true to the SW experience.

    That is opinion, and it comes mixed in with the news.  Now, if a site keeps producing only interviews repeatedly pushing forth only the company's opinion, it becomes biased.  A site for the community must have both articles about the company's perspective, as well as the community's perspective.

    I don't think that adding brief and vague statements like "the fans are disappointed thus far" while allowing multiple lines of company perspective is fair.  That is not a site for the community, it's for the industry.
    That's all.

    -virtual tourist
    want your game back?
    image

This discussion has been closed.