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The Official "We're Angry at SOE" thread

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  • jakinjakin Member UncommonPosts: 243

    Originally posted by hipiap


    For the readers; Paragraph 2 from the EULA of SW:G  :
     
    2. To play the Game, you must: (i) purchase the Software (as defined below in Paragraph 7) for Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided and any expansion packs you wish to play ; (ii) have a fully paid Account; (iii) have a valid credit card (or, if we wish to make it available, a paid game card); and (iv) have an Internet connection (which we do not provide or pay for) to access your Account. In addition to any fees described herein, you are responsible for paying all applicable taxes (including those we are not required to collect) and for all hardware, software, service and other costs you incur to access your Account. Neither this Agreement nor your Account entitles you to any subsequent releases of the Game and/or the Software, any expansion packs nor similar ancillary products. You understand that we may update or otherwise enhance the Game and/or the Software at any time and in doing so incur no obligation to furnish such updates to you pursuant to this Agreement. You understand that online games evolve over time and, accordingly, system requirements to play the Game may change over time.
     
     
    Put in Bold to be helpful.

    FWIW the part you're bolding has nothing to do with the point you're trying to make.

    That part of the EULA simply states that SOE is under no legal obligation to provide a paying customer with any updates or enhancements they make - regardless of the fact that the customer is already paying for the service.  For instance - should they produce an enhanced graphical engine they have no obligation to provide that upgrade for free, they are within their rights to charge for it.

    The second element of the para allows for such graphical upgrades (again as an example) and does not warrant that they will honour the current system requirements throughout the lifetime of the product.

    Nothing in that para provides for the scope of change that the CU / NGE actually visited on their players.  It was unprecedented at the time and (given the success of the move) will likely not be repeated within the genre at any time in the foreseeable future.

  • BetaguyBetaguy Member UncommonPosts: 2,615
    I'll throw my anger in the pile

    /angry

    image

  • mishkofmishkof Member Posts: 2

    Sorta forgot about this game. Just got done watching Episode VI.

    /signed

    Have been a (somewhat) happy customer of Eve for the last 2.5 years. Would have been SWG if it wasnt for the NGE.

  • ArsaniArsani Member Posts: 1

    Hello, my name is 'Sani and I am a Smuggler.  And that pretty much explains why I am posting in this thread.

  • LaterisLateris Member UncommonPosts: 1,765

    I am done with SOE products for good. I have taken my money to CCP, Turbine, and elsewhere. I will never log in to the mier of SWG. Period.  I would rather drive my A4 into the ocean than subscribe to SWG. The way SOE treats their fanbase is wrong. They way items gets nerfed is lame. The NGE and the engine of SWG is still broken. Combat is still broken. Targeting is still broken. Quests are still broken. Collision is still boken. SWG is still broken. All that is left are mostly hicks, racists,  meth heads, drunks, and mental insurance cases with a very small number of decent human beings left.

    I am a vet and I refuse to give you my money SOE. And I had 5 accounts going at once back in the day. 2 years of 1800.00 gone. Never to recover. You have also lost 3,000,000 a month since the NGE. Way to go Lucas Arts and SOE. 

     

    And now I move on as a consumer, a journalist., word of mouth, and an ex star wars fan. My money goes elsewhere.  

  • ArcAngel3ArcAngel3 Member Posts: 2,931
    Originally posted by Lateris


    I am done with SOE products for good. I have taken my money to CCP, Turbine, and elsewhere. I will never log in to the mier of SWG. Period.  I would rather drive my A4 into the ocean than subscribe to SWG. The way SOE treats their fanbase is wrong. They way items gets nerfed is lame. The NGE and the engine of SWG is still broken. Combat is still broken. Targeting is still broken. Quests are still broken. Collision is still boken. SWG is still broken. All that is left are mostly hicks, racists,  meth heads, drunks, and mental insurance cases with a very small number of decent human beings left.
    I am a vet and I refuse to give you my money SOE. And I had 5 accounts going at once back in the day. 2 years of 1800.00 gone. Never to recover. You have also lost 3,000,000 a month since the NGE. Way to go Lucas Arts and SOE. 
     
    And now I move on as a consumer, a journalist., word of mouth, and an ex star wars fan. My money goes elsewhere.  

     

  • UzlebUzleb Member Posts: 162

     Lost Love 

         Still, after all this time, when I think of SWG's NGE I get a pain in my chest.  I don't think this pain will ever go away.  Seriously, it's a deep feeling of lose and betrayal, one that goes deep and cunsumes my thoughts with sorrow and remorse.  Many people would just roll thier eyes and say "whatever", but that's only becuase they didn't share what myself, and many others shared. 

    LOVE for the game.

         I wonder if a lawyer could force them to bring back Pre-NGE on the grounds of mental and emotional anquish. The EULA does say that the owning parties  have the right to change the game as they see fit, however: to what extent?

         Please SOE bring back some servers for the Vets (Pre-Nge Players).  I'll even deal with the bugs, minimum support, increase monthly costs, whatever it takes to make this pain go away, I can't stand it anymore.

    image

  • kobie173kobie173 Member UncommonPosts: 2,075
    Originally posted by Uzleb


     Lost Love 
         Still, after all this time, when I think of SWG's NGE I get a pain in my chest.  I don't think this pain will ever go away.  Seriously, it's a deep feeling of lose and betrayal, one that goes deep and cunsumes my thoughts with sorrow and remorse.  Many people would just roll thier eyes and say "whatever", but that's only becuase they didn't share what myself, and many others shared. 
    LOVE for the game.
         I wonder if a lawyer could force them to bring back Pre-NGE on the grounds of mental and emotional anquish. The EULA does say that the owning parties  have the right to change the game as they see fit, however: to what extent?
         Please SOE bring back some servers for the Vets (Pre-Nge Players).  I'll even deal with the bugs, minimum support, increase monthly costs, whatever it takes to make this pain go away, I can't stand it anymore.



     

    Hey, I loved it too. But if you're talking about something that "consumes your thoughts with sorrow," you might want to seek some kind of therapy. Seriously, that is not healthy.

    So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.

  • EnowaEnowa Member Posts: 18

    I think if your in business no matter how much money you've made. You really do need to listen to your base. eg. your fans the ppl that shovel there money into your product. their have been way to many rumors about why the leveling system etc has gone and the new shit game was created. I just know that soe does ruin everything. I was kinda stoked about the cross platform mmorpg dc comics until I heard soe is getting it. I stopped playing the game for 2 years almost. and just got back in.. sadly I only lasted 2 weeks. I am not sure if I am bias b/c I just lost the love of the game, just completly bored with all mmorpgs right now. mainly b/c their isn't a hardcore rp base in them now days.. but I am so over and done with this giant P.O.S. CALLED GALAXIES..

  • ObeeObee Member Posts: 1,550
    Originally posted by Enowa


    I think if your in business no matter how much money you've made. You really do need to listen to your base. eg. your fans the ppl that shovel there money into your product. their have been way to many rumors about why the leveling system etc has gone and the new shit game was created. I just know that soe does ruin everything. I was kinda stoked about the cross platform mmorpg dc comics until I heard soe is getting it. I stopped playing the game for 2 years almost. and just got back in.. sadly I only lasted 2 weeks. I am not sure if I am bias b/c I just lost the love of the game, just completly bored with all mmorpgs right now. mainly b/c their isn't a hardcore rp base in them now days.. but I am so over and done with this giant P.O.S. CALLED GALAXIES..

     

    I posted this before in a different thread, but SOE could greatly improve as a company without actually listening to their customers.  They just need to stop treating their customers as their enemy.  It wouldn't improve the crap they produce, but it would make a lot more people willing to at least give their crap a chance.  As it is, there is a significant number of former SOE customers that are not likely to be SOE customers in the future, even if SOE somehow manages to stumble their way to making a game that is worth playing.

    SOE is a company that employs people that are openly hostile towards their customers.  The only reason SOE still has any customers is that there are people who are willing to be treated like crap and pay for the privilege.  At any professionally ran company, employees who treat their customers the way many of SOE's employees do would be looking for different jobs.  The problem is, the hostility is from the top down, so nothing will be done to change it until there is a major change in SOE's management personnel.

     

  • stinneystinney Member Posts: 35

    Yes, years on I am still angry at SOE.

    I live in the UK and a guildmate I met in SWG came over for my wedding. The friendships made in SWG went far beyond bytes and pixels.

    SOE trashed that in a gamble to make more money.

     

    Incidently, how is the the NGE working out for you money wise? ROFL!!!

     

    Knowing that SOE are making less money with the NGE gives me a little bit of satisfaction.

    I hate SOE, and I will only give them more money IF they bring back pre-CU and start fixing the bugs.

    Other than that, they can kiss my ass, right on the crack.

  • NanachubNanachub Member Posts: 63

    Yep... still angry but its been a blast watching them cling on with all their will and to hammer the NGE down everyones throats and fail.

    Shame on you

    "Obi-Wan Kenobi: We were decieved by a lie; we all were. It appears that SOE is behind everything, including the NGE! After the death of CU, the NGE became their new apprentice."

  • DataDayDataDay Member UncommonPosts: 1,536

    I have a few things to say about SWG and what SOE had to do. First, you have to remember at the time SOE was heavily influenced by Movie Execs, and you cannot treat an MMORPG like a film. You can re-edit a film to make it better or tell a less confusing story... but it doesnt really work that way with mmorpgs.

    That said. A few things happened that is not soley SOE's fault, but a fault within the entire gaming industry. First, Lucas Arts was sucking up a lot of the profits, followed by the massive success of World of Warcraft, SWG was failing to meet the required profits between what Lucas Arts was getting and SOE. Second, SWG devs made it quite clear that they do make changes based on the community. Casual gamers complained that the game was too complicated, while the non casual gamers complained it wasnt free enough. Casual players wanted that instant action and satisfaction... in my opinion they are the bane for most depth reliant game genres.

    Now SOE and LA had to make a choice, they were not making enough profits, the casual gamers were tooting for changes, and at the time developers in the video game industry believed that simplicity is the same as accessibility, sadly this is still happening to this day because the "casual" gamer demands that they should get everything spoon fed to them, easy and quickly because they do not want to or cannot spend the time to achieve something. A steep learning curve, patience, and vast possibilities are the bane of this player group.

    All these factors effected the decision SOE had to make, though it backfired. Imagine a group of people wanting change in the government of a certain country they wanted to live in. That government makes those changes to accomidate them, and in turn they return the favor of having their demands met by moving to a different country altogether. They always want something, and when they get it, they lose interest fast.This hurts the people who are the exact opposite, and represent the opposition to "casual gaming" game mechanics.

    So to review:

    1. SWG wasnt making an acceptable profit for Lucas Arts and SOE, especially when WoW proved to be a massive success, sending ripples of change through out the gaming industry.( SOE at the time was still part of Sony's Movie studio influence. All major movie studios own or run gaming branches now, Sony like the others were still figuring out to make it work as the industry of interactive entertainment was still evolving.}

    2. SWG was open to the communities demands and sadly the Casual player base was the louder of the bunch alongside WoW's massive appeal to the same audience and its success, which SWG desperately needed.

    3.  Developers confused Simplicity with Accessibility throughout the gaming industry, not just SOE, and it still happens to this day. It is the curse of Casual Gamer demands and the developers inability to figure out how to please everyone.

    I cannot see how anyone can really hate SOE, when the real fault is found within the changing of the industry as a whole and the rising power of console born casual gamers and rising development cost.

    Furthermore, Lucas Arts had more influence over the game's direction than Sony did, yet I do not see anyone really looking in their direction.

    (""We really just needed to make the game a lot more accessible to a much broader player base," said Nancy MacIntyre, the game's senior director at LucasArts.

    "There was [were] lots of reading, much too much, in the game. There was a lot of wandering around learning about different abilities. We really needed to give people the experience of being Han Solo or Luke Skywalker rather than being Uncle Owen, the moisture farmer. We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat. We needed to give people more of an opportunity to be a part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves,")

    Lack of required profits + Casual Gamers + Film influence  (via movie studios Lucas Arts and Sony) + WoW's success + changes in the game industry as a whole = The disaster that befell SWG. You cant just point at SOE and say they are the devil when theres so much more to it than that. SOE isnt flawless, but they are less to blame than these other factors as well as Lucas Arts, which felt the need for that change.

     

    Hope this was educational.

     

  • hipiaphipiap Member UncommonPosts: 393
    Originally posted by Rabenwolf



    I have a few things to say about SWG and what SOE had to do. First, you have to remember at the time SOE was heavily influenced by Movie Execs, and you cannot treat an MMORPG like a film. You can re-edit a film to make it better or tell a less confusing story... but it doesnt really work that way with mmorpgs.
    That said. A few things happened that is not soley SOE's fault, but a fault within the entire gaming industry. First, Lucas Arts was sucking up a lot of the profits, followed by the massive success of World of Warcraft, SWG was failing to meet the required profits between what Lucas Arts was getting and SOE. Second, SWG devs made it quite clear that they do make changes based on the community. Casual gamers complained that the game was too complicated, while the non casual gamers complained it wasnt free enough. Casual players wanted that instant action and satisfaction... in my opinion they are the bane for most depth reliant game genres.
    Now SOE and LA had to make a choice, they were not making enough profits, the casual gamers were tooting for changes, and at the time developers in the video game industry believed that simplicity is the same as accessibility, sadly this is still happening to this day because the "casual" gamer demands that they should get everything spoon fed to them, easy and quickly because they do not want to or cannot spend the time to achieve something. A steep learning curve, patience, and vast possibilities are the bane of this player group.
    All these factors effected the decision SOE had to make, though it backfired. Imagine a group of people wanting change in the government of a certain country they wanted to live in. That government makes those changes to accomidate them, and in turn they return the favor of having their demands met by moving to a different country altogether. They always want something, and when they get it, they lose interest fast.This hurts the people who are the exact opposite, and represent the opposition to "casual gaming" game mechanics.
    So to review:
    1. SWG wasnt making an acceptable profit for Lucas Arts and SOE, especially when WoW proved to be a massive success, sending ripples of change through out the gaming industry.( SOE at the time was still part of Sony's Movie studio influence. All major movie studios own or run gaming branches now, Sony like the others were still figuring out to make it work as the industry of interactive entertainment was still evolving.}
    2. SWG was open to the communities demands and sadly the Casual player base was the louder of the bunch alongside WoW's massive appeal to the same audience and its success, which SWG desperately needed.
    3.  Developers confused Simplicity with Accessibility throughout the gaming industry, not just SOE, and it still happens to this day. It is the curse of Casual Gamer demands and the developers inability to figure out how to please everyone.
    I cannot see how anyone can really hate SOE, when the real fault is found within the changing of the industry as a whole and the rising power of console born casual gamers and rising development cost.
    Furthermore, Lucas Arts had more influence over the game's direction than Sony did, yet I do not see anyone really looking in their direction.
    (""We really just needed to make the game a lot more accessible to a much broader player base," said Nancy MacIntyre, the game's senior director at LucasArts.
    "There was [were] lots of reading, much too much, in the game. There was a lot of wandering around learning about different abilities. We really needed to give people the experience of being Han Solo or Luke Skywalker rather than being Uncle Owen, the moisture farmer. We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat. We needed to give people more of an opportunity to be a part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves,")
    Lack of required profits + Casual Gamers + Film influence  (via movie studios Lucas Arts and Sony) + WoW's success + changes in the game industry as a whole = The disaster that befell SWG. You cant just point at SOE and say they are the devil when theres so much more to it than that. SOE isnt flawless, but they are less to blame than these other factors as well as Lucas Arts, which felt the need for that change.
     
    Hope this was educational.
     

    I agree with everything you commented on.

     

    But I have to add one thing to this...

     

    It has been almost 3 years since the End of the CU era of SW:G.

    At this point, anyone from before then has serious psychological issues if they are still ranting over OMG NGE FTL or crap like that.

     

    Hope this was educational.

    MMO History: 2528 days in SW:G
    image

  • pdxgeekpdxgeek Member Posts: 585
    Originally posted by hipiap

    At this point, anyone from before then has serious psychological issues if they are still ranting over OMG NGE FTL or crap like that.

    Where did you get your degree in psychology?

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,302
    Originally posted by pdxgeek

    Originally posted by hipiap

    At this point, anyone from before then has serious psychological issues if they are still ranting over OMG NGE FTL or crap like that.

    Where did you get your degree in psychology?



     

    I dont' know, it seems a bit logical that anyone angry, actually angry over all this time can't really move on. Don't think you need a degree for this one. Just perspective.




  • pdxgeekpdxgeek Member Posts: 585
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by pdxgeek

    Originally posted by hipiap

    At this point, anyone from before then has serious psychological issues if they are still ranting over OMG NGE FTL or crap like that.

    Where did you get your degree in psychology?



     I dont' know, it seems a bit logical that anyone angry, actually angry over all this time can't really move on. Don't think you need a degree for this one. Just perspective.

    And where did you study logic?

  • AntaranAntaran Member Posts: 579

    I put 3 years into SWG, it was my first MMO and i loved it, i spent so much time on it and most of my offline time organising things and searchign for info on different aspecs etc that i became a hermit (sad i know but true). I was one phase change away from becoming a Jedi when the NGE happened, this annoyed me so much i left the game for a week to calm down, i gave the NGE a try for 2 months and then cancelled my accounts.

    I can't speak for anyone else but the main reason i lost faith is the fact that no one needed to see crafters on a regular basis after the NGE, therfore making crafters obsolete and the once great economy that no one has managed to match never mind rival was extinct. The moment the NGE went live the Jedi population (which in the timeframe the game is set in should have been minimal) boosted so fast that i could swear at least 80% of players were Jedi, this is because instead of the months of hard work you had to put in to become a jedi were gone and you could select Jedi as a starting profession...

    SOE you made a huge mistake by simplifying the game just to try and get more subs, you shot yourselves in the foot and lost your loyal players. I hope Your losing mass amounts of money on SWG because of this.

    I didn't want to bring this up but seeing as the thread is listed as "We're Angry at SOE" and not not specifically aimed at SWG devs, i will..  i tried Vanguard and you screwed that up at the beginning too, i have friends that have left Everquest games because of some changes in there too.  sounds to me like instead of looking after your loyal members who have paid your wages for years your more interested in alienating everyone..  such a shame as i'd have still been in SWG today if it wasn't for your money grabbing attempts at getting more subs.

  • NicroxNicrox Member Posts: 140

    I started playing swg eight months after release.  For myself swg was an awesome mmo and I left EQ to jump aboard and join the community of swg players.  But right from the start I encountered problems such as latency problems  missing inventory items and character problems. It would seem that swg was released to early and yet the community still wanted to play the mmo just because I believe that the community where star war fans.

    Crafters had a wet dream about crafting and the system was inovative and aloud for crafters too have a sense of involvement or any profession that you choose. Mind you the system was not perfect but as a swg community we acted as a community.  Also players who wanted too pvp had too prepare for pvp. Eating the right foods which kept the crafters busy and buffed  pvp/pve players.

    Many players had muliple account some had 12 accounts and you could only have one character per account. And many where nurses , police officers , workers , students and others who made up the community.

    When the last expansion ( Trials of Obi-Wan ) was released alot of people paid for a one year subscription to swg and two weeks without warning  the NGE made its introduction.  We as a community asked for a rollback which was normal when SOE brought down a unwanted patch and SOE had said 'NO" to us.

    We asked for answers and why the NGE and they said "NO" and we asked for our subscription back for the year and the answer was 'NO".  Its been a few years since the NGE came out SOE should be able too understand that the community has said  "NO" to them.

    They have said 'NO" to a swg classic server its time to say "YES" before the new SWG is released.

     

  • OutSoldOutOutSoldOut Member Posts: 18

    This game was so great before the Hologrind, such a sense of community and such great PvP battles. I remember how much fun going into Anchorhead with our AT-STs was, and having random Rebels call you Imperial scum. Creature Handler in general and the thrill of taming your first Rancor baby. Even afterwards, it was still decent despite the masses of people grinding random proffessions. Commandos, and how they started the general use of armor and buffs. The melee stackers... good times. Even Bounty Hunting and killing your first Jedi player. This game could have been so great if they had spent their time adding content instead of combat revamps that were not needed. A few more dungeons done well, some more content for the GCW, and it would have been perfect. It's too bad they gave up on the skill based character development so quickly. Jedi were handled pretty poorly as well, but that's another issue.

  • kcypher2000kcypher2000 Member Posts: 116

    I think this thread is a great idea. I played SWG when it first came out and unlike the majority of these so called Vets i remember how broken the game truly was.  SWG precu was not some mmo paradise.  It had 32 classes, 30 of which were typicallly broken at the same time forcing everyone to migrate to one or two flavor of the month classes.  Questing consisted of grinding the same kill this mobs hideout quest and every one and their mother wore composite armor.

    I really hope that they do start banning people who religiously hijack threads on this board.  I dont play the game now but like to check up on here to see whats new yet every thread someone who still PLAYS the game posts gets taken over by people angry at changes that happened years ago. 

    If you hate the game, dont play and move on.

  • knode89knode89 Member Posts: 9

    Seems fitting my first post here should be in this thread.  I am a PreNGE vet, and just left because of all the crap that SOE pulled over the past few years and finally just made it the most boring of MMOs, from what started to be a great MMO idea.  The move the the NGE was the worst idea in MMO history.  Well, I am in limbo until Stargate Worlds or the new Star Wars MMO comes out.  Might jump around to some of the others now again but for now, SOE has lost itself another one.

    http://stargate.mgm.com/specialops/link.php?link=32&id=6769

     

     

  • DeadlobsterDeadlobster Member UncommonPosts: 126

    Since leaving swg I have played wow (twice) guild wars, vanguard, aoc, warhammer, and you know what, they crap in comparison. SWG was so far ahead its just not funny so I may have said before but eff u SOE, go kiss my hairy yellow butt lol.

     

    Oh swg vets are gods with supreme intelligence, just look at all the feckin fanboi's out there playing lesser games and singing their praises.

  • UnforgetableUnforgetable Member Posts: 41

    .

  • ValeranValeran Member Posts: 925
    Originally posted by Unforgetable


    .

     

    I agree.

    --------
    Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism

    "SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor

This discussion has been closed.