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Official "We're Angry about SOE" Thread

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  • zsuarkkzsuarkk Member UncommonPosts: 2

       Well, after reading several pages of posts I find it that SOE has done people bad in the past. I have been a member of EQ since o1 and also play WoW. I for one do not play games based on the publisher but for the game itself. I do believe that sony did alot of people wrong and that they need a lot of work with CS. I also know that will not stop me from playing Vanguard. In fact, If I based my game choice on cust. service I prolly would retire completely from all mmorg's.

     Also, If the All-MIGHTY came down and created a MMORG, there would be some who followed and some who hated. Some who praised and some who curse. The truth IMO is that when you create anything you have to start somewhere and decisions have to be made and you have to hope you made the right one.

     Sony made bad ones and Im sure they are taking that into consideration.(at least I hope) I for one am greatly anticipating the game as EQ was my fav. The only prob I have with EQ is how you can go LFG for hours and progress seemed to be dictated by the ability to find groupage in what seems to be an ever-declining poulation.

     Sitting for hours lfg was and still is very annoying to me. Im sure that some would argue that is what an online community is all about but if thats the case then so be it. I hope that in the event that the population dwindled in Vanguard, I would still be able to play solo.

    Note: all expressed above are soley my opinions

      I hope the game turns out as Great and Innovative as its predessor was and Sony learns from their mistakes  and to see you all in game. Until then Happy Gaming and Merry Christmas/New Year's =)

    Nilael Innoruuk, Gennocide/al etc EQ/WoW salutes all Gamers, Game on!

  • enaz13enaz13 Member UncommonPosts: 102

    Even though i pretty much hated SOE expansions and overall direction of EQ1 i still will give Vangaurd a chance. I simply am giving vangaurd a chance based on what i've seen and i trust Brad who helped develop a game i really loved the original Everquest before SOE. I do blame SOE for ruining EQ1 in my opinion but my faith in Brad's idea of a great game outweighs my fear of SOE somehow messing it up. I'm not even gonna comment on EQ2 or SWG.

  • altairzqaltairzq Member Posts: 3,811
    Since the SOE deal Vanguard has experimented several important changes towards an easier gameplay ala EQ2-WOW. Coincidence? I don't think so.
  • dragon733dragon733 Member Posts: 31
    If SOE is only involved in publishing and servers, then I think the game will end up fine. But something tells me that SOE will slowly be allowed more and more control until it's too late and the game dies.



    Now, one thing I don't understand is: WHY are the developers nowadays going after the same playerbase as WoW simply because it's a huge success subscriber-wise??? Personally, I think WoW is one of the worst MMOs I've played! I don't know about the fanbois and  other people, but I don't like games that have:



    Instances (They suck, hard)

    Everything in-game is basically cartoony (Come on, what is this, cartoon town?)

    The player base is immature and extremely annoying

    The entire game is one big combat grind









    I don't know about EQ before SOE had it, but the 1st time I played EQ1, it was on Planes of Power, and I don't even think I left the newbie area before I disliked the game. EQ2 lasted until about level 20. Planetside was good at first, but slowly over time SOE killed that. SWG i played pre-CU, that was okay.



    I don't think an MMO would be good if it was like WoW or EQ1/2. Maybe it would be in the mainstream MMO market, but the gameplay would totally suck. Games like UO are where it's at. UO was EXTERMELY open-ended, was full of content, had awesome customer support, an awesome player base, you could always find fun things to do, etc; it was just plain great gameplayI It's a game like this that I hope comes out someday soon. It's a game that anyone could enjoy a lot!



    Sadly, UO can't hold my interest anymore, because with the highly decreased number of people who still play, it makes it less fun. If it still had more people, I would probably still be off and on it! Ah ....that brings back memories of  when I really anticipated the release of UO2. I really wish they hadn't cancelled it. That would've been the best. game. ever.

    Playing: BF2142

    Waiting For: Jumpgate: Evolution

    Played: UO, DAoC, MCO, EQ, AO, TSO, Shadowbane, Planetside, SWG, FFXI, CoH, L2, EQ2, WoW, MxO, EVE, AoC

    Played 6mo+: UO, EVE

  • MardyMardy Member Posts: 2,213

    I really dislike SOE and how they do total revamps after releasing a game, and continue to do revamps throughout the years.  I can understand balancing changes.  But when you do such big changes and so many times within 1-2 years, it's a good indication the game wasn't 80% ready when they launched it.   The only props I can give to SOE is the fact that they have the balls to make changes to try and turn their game around.  EQ2 was in a nose dive after launch, the game simply was not fun, lacked content, and many design decisions were poorly done.  So a year after, they started doing total revamps and now EQ2 is a fairly decent game.  Unfortunately all those changes to attract new players made them push away their loyal customerbase, and that continues to be SOE's weak point.  They do it too often, it's like they only care about getting new players rather than make existing players happy.

    But in Vanguard, since SOE is only handling the servers and utilizing their name to push a game out, I got no problem with it.  Heck I don't even have problems with SOE's programmers because they do what they were told to do.  People should really get pissed at the producers and execs sitting in comfy offices, those are the guys that make the call for SOE's games.

    EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO

  • MasterchiefMMasterchiefM Member Posts: 99
    the main reason MS pulled out is because they wanted Vanguard to be Vista title, and Sigil didnt want it just for Vista so they bought them out.
  • PolyformistPolyformist Member Posts: 57
    This is an old dead conversation but really



    Lets see some facts



    +++'s

    SOE --> Has some of the most reliable servers in the world! (stability)



    SOE
    --> Has a great software distribution system (Game on Shelf)



    SOE
    --> Provides a gateway for less experienced companies to focus on their product instead of focusing on their hardwares running the product!!



    SOE
    --> Provides the means to distribute World Wide Sales, and has established trade routes setup over see's!



    ---'s

    SOE
    --> SOE prolly has the worst track record for makeing expansions and codeing games,  but this isn't the issue with most of the new contracts being signed atm.



    I see SOE being a standard label on many many MMO's of the future!  Not as a programing name, but rather as a Distribution and Hardware maintanance provider.  These two area's are were SOE destroys 98% of their compition, and they do it classy!!



    POWER to the KING'S BABY!!

    .......O......BTW......Sigil (BRAD) already announced the SOE has nothing to do with "HIS GAME",  they are their to help with distribution of the game!  This allows SIGIL to focus on the game, while SOE focuses on letting us play that game once released!

    ---Retired---
    WAR - Lots
    Vanguard - Lots

    ---Live---
    WoW - LOTS
    EQ - LOTS

  • Agricola1Agricola1 Member UncommonPosts: 4,977

    Are you smoking crack mate?

    SOE --> Has some of the most unreliable servers in the world! (unstability) fixed!

    SOE --> Has a horrific software distribution system (Game on Shelf) fixed!

    SOE --> Provides a gateway for less experienced companies to focus on their product instead of focusing on their hardwares running the product!! Since when?

    SOE --> Provides the means to distribute World Wide Sales, and has established trade routes setup over sea's! Other companies use a digital download (21st century is here!) and charge you less!

    SOE --> SOE certainly has the worst track record for making expansions and codeing games,  but this isn't the issue with most of the new contracts being signed atm. Which new contracts exactly?

    I see SOE being a standard label on many many MMO disasters of the future!  Not as a programing name, but rather as a Distribution and Hardware maintanance provider.  These two area's are were SOE destroys 98% of their profits, and they do it classy!! fixed!

    SOE are the scum of the MMO industry, Brad will probably sell his baby to SOE and do another runner leaving peeved Vanbois in the lurch with Smedley. But enjoy your Vantasy whilst it lasts, when you see the crap graphics and long tedious combat you might change your mind.









    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"

    CS Lewis

  • PolyformistPolyformist Member Posts: 57
    Originally posted by Agricola1


    Are you smoking crack mate?
    SOE --> Has some of the most unreliable servers in the world! (unstability) fixed!
    SOE --> Has a horrific software distribution system (Game on Shelf) fixed!
    SOE --> Provides a gateway for less experienced companies to focus on their product instead of focusing on their hardwares running the product!! Since when?
    SOE --> Provides the means to distribute World Wide Sales, and has established trade routes setup over sea's! Other companies use a digital download (21st century is here!) and charge you less!
    SOE --> SOE certainly has the worst track record for making expansions and codeing games,  but this isn't the issue with most of the new contracts being signed atm. Which new contracts exactly?


    I see SOE being a standard label on many many MMO disasters of the future!  Not as a programing name, but rather as a Distribution and Hardware maintanance provider.  These two area's are were SOE destroys 98% of their profits, and they do it classy!! fixed!
    SOE are the scum of the MMO industry, Brad will probably sell his baby to SOE and do another runner leaving peeved Vanbois in the lurch with Smedley. But enjoy your Vantasy whilst it lasts, when you see the crap graphics and long tedious combat you might change your mind.








    I guess we are all entitled to our own oppinions =)  And I accept your point of view as that of your own. =)  Glad to see you took the time to respond. -- sincerely Poly =)


    ---Retired---
    WAR - Lots
    Vanguard - Lots

    ---Live---
    WoW - LOTS
    EQ - LOTS

  • parkiparki Member UncommonPosts: 8


    Originally posted by Agricola1

    But enjoy your Vantasy whilst it lasts, when you see the crap graphics and long tedious combat you might change your mind.


    Yeah, w/e...

    Don't like it? Don't play it... I bet you're not even into beta.

  • Agricola1Agricola1 Member UncommonPosts: 4,977

    Poly you're right they are my opinions, the reason I replied to your post with such passion is that you claimed your opinions are fact. If you still think those opinions are fact then please back them up with some irrefutable evidence that even I could not dismiss.

    Take a look at the MMOWTF awards, SOE made a clean sweep and with good reason that is a fact. They flushed an almost certain money maker down the crapper with two combat upgrades, fact. They went from being the leader of the MMO industry to being a mediocre company with mediocre/outdated titles at best, with EQ keeping them on life support, fact. They have another license for the matrix online, and have failed to turn that into a success, fact. They make half their profits by churning out expansion after expansion at the expense of normal patches to fix bugs/add content, fact. They have betrayed their customers in more than one game, EQ2 when they pretended bugs were preventing players from entering zones when in fact they hadn't started working on it so just stopped players going there and used their subs to pay to finish the game, fact.

    I'd really like to see some examples of how SOE is a world leader in the MMO industry, all of your "facts" have no evidence to back them up. If you do please post it as I'll certainly read this and research it to see if perhaps SOE has done one thing right in the last two years!

    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"

    CS Lewis

  • LughsanLughsan Member Posts: 312
    Originally posted by MasterchiefM

    the main reason MS pulled out is because they wanted Vanguard to be Vista title, and Sigil didnt want it just for Vista so they bought them out.

    Incorrect.

     

    It was probably more likely that Microsoft saw how unfinished the game was and didn't want to wait any longer.  They (microsoft) wasted no time at all in snapping up Age of Conan as a Vista Title.   And that will be playable on XP and DX9 as well so that clearly wasn't the issue at all.

  • parmenionparmenion Member Posts: 260
    I understand peoples negativity to SoE, it's exactly how I felt about the changes EA games made to Ultima Online a long time ago, but some perspective of time will let most people stop being so bothered by it eventually. You'll also just realise changes will always happen eventually, nothing stays static forever, plus you'd get bored if things become totally stagnant. Getting over your first 'betrayal' just means you won't be so bothered by things not going according to your wishes in the future, SWG's changes didn't affect me nearly so much.



    Personally I'll play Vanguard based on my judgements about whether the game suits my playstyle, which will all be about how SIGIL has designed, built, CS and patch & expand it... and the fact SoE maintain the servers press DVD's and get boxes delivered to shelves doesn't really interest me frankly.
  • KillyonKillyon Member Posts: 1
    I agree all the griping about SoE isn't really going to change wether or not I play it...it will depend on "my" style of play and story and such,so that's my thoughts ,just what I was thinking at the time.
  • BrynnBrynn Member Posts: 345
    I dislike SoE overall, also. I hate what they did to SWG. I played EQ2 until level 20 and left. But, recently returned to the new expansion and found many changes that now make the game enjoyable. I returned to be with friends. It's hard to believe, I know, that SoE finally listened to fans. There are things about Vanguard that I know I won't like, and with the many reports on how the it is now, I know, for me, I will wait a long time to see how the game shapes up.
  • sairuscosairusco Member Posts: 133
    Before soe was involved with vanguard soh my expectations were high about the game, I just hope (now that soe is involved with the game) they wont have a lot of influence on the game, because I've tried 2 other games soe was involved with swg and EQII and both games were a disapointment, especially EQII. (somehow the promises and actual game didnt match.. I even felt tricked into buying the game by the fancy website that showed all that the game was not thus making me dislike soe) I just cross my fingers and hope for the best for vanguard...
  • DrunkenPreyDrunkenPrey Member Posts: 122

    Just remember SOE are hosting the game, they have little if any actual control over the content of the actual game. I daresay they have some degree of control but being that they have a previous realtionship with Brad I think he'll maintain creative control to a huge extent.

    Refusing to play a game that has such great potential just because SOE are involved is just child like. It's the same thing people say about EA.

    ______________________________

    WAR is coming. Look busy.

  • NarggNargg Member Posts: 17
    So much speculation here, and so little truth.  You guys need to get a life.

    This is my sig...

  • sairuscosairusco Member Posts: 133
    Originally posted by Nargg

    So much speculation here, and so little truth.  You guys need to get a life.
    Geeh.. really an insightful addition to the discussion truth in matters like these is relative, and last, the fact you're posting in here as well says enough about your own life.

    Originally posted by DrunkenPrey


    Just remember SOE are hosting the game, they have little if any actual control over the content of the actual game. I daresay they have some degree of control but being that they have a previous realtionship with Brad I think he'll maintain creative control to a huge extent.
    Refusing to play a game that has such great potential just because SOE are involved is just child like. It's the same thing people say about EA.
    I sure hope you're right about the first part :) and I certainly will play the game even if soe is involved or even if they were the ones releasing it but I'll check some reviews first, because I just have a bad experience with soe games (swg + eq2)
  • NarggNargg Member Posts: 17
    Originally posted by sairusco

    Originally posted by Nargg

    So much speculation here, and so little truth.  You guys need to get a life.
    Geeh.. really an insightful addition to the discussion truth in matters like these is relative, and last, the fact you're posting in here as well says enough about your own life.





    If my post had been done for reason of insight it probably would have been over your head.  Sorry you didn't get it.

    This is my sig...

  • sairuscosairusco Member Posts: 133
    Originally posted by Nargg

    Originally posted by sairusco

    Originally posted by Nargg

    So much speculation here, and so little truth.  You guys need to get a life.
    Geeh.. really an insightful addition to the discussion truth in matters like these is relative, and last, the fact you're posting in here as well says enough about your own life.





    If my post had been done for reason of insight it probably would have been over your head.  Sorry you didn't get it. Hollow words... try posting some useful info or facts my friend
  • daraknordaraknor Member Posts: 9
    First of all, I haven't read all 20 pages. I read about 3/4 of the posts though. I am a long time veteran of MMOG, starting off with UO beta before there was fishing included. I played EQ1, AO, WoW, SWG, dozens more minor games.



    I stopped playing Horizons because of the company. Turns out my instincts were right. I vote with my dollar too, and I don't want money going to SOE. I chucked MxO when SOE took over. (Another good move.)



    Brad claims that he bought the license from MS, and that he didn't get money from SOE to purchase that license. I am surprised that in so many pages of posts I read, nobody considered he could have received money from his "best friend" Smed. Additionally, Smed could own a large part of Sigil and give Sigil the larger portion of game revenue giving Smed a bigger personal piece of the pie. Private investment from a 'friend' will probably create unofficial influence. The game changed drastically: equipment deterioration was announced yesterday.



    I thought about not playing this game when I found out MS was the publisher. I stand by that more now that I find out the new publisher is SOE. Yes, I do use Windows, but only for MMOG. I use firefox on linux to browse the web. Ubuntu has more features than Vista does. I'm not really amazed 64bit windows still sucks and doesn't really have drivers. Microsoft gets $0 from me. (Yes I have licensed copies of Windows - previous company I worked for went to a site license.) Yes, MS sucks as a company and yes their products are bad. I supported Windows 95 for Microsoft (all 7 versions of it) and I switched to Linux because of it. I have never had the problems in years with Linux that I had every month (sometimes daily) with MS (dataloss, out of memory, drivers eating themselves, constant rebooting, file corruption, etc).



    Games I'm interested in playing:

    Warhammer Online (the WoW of PvP I'm betting)

    Darkfall: what The Chronicle promised to be, but actually in development! Closed Beta soon

    Age of Conan

    Chronicles of Spellborn

    Planeshift.it (Open source MMOG I like to watch and fiddle with periodically)



    Dark and Light has some of the feature set I was hunting for, but not the player base to make it happen. I might play it for a few months or Saga of Ryzom again to see what the new systems are like.



    I wish more games supported Linux, I'm going to try and fiddle with Wine, WineX and Crossover more. (Wine has solid 64bit support)



    Vote with your dollar, it is the only vote you have.
  • daraknordaraknor Member Posts: 9
    The deeper question I've been asking myself is: "Do I really want to play a content grind where I can't impact the world at all?" The answer really feels like a "no" even if they add PvP with consequences and so on. I might buy 2G of RAM for other reasons, but the performance excuses are just silly. Dark and Light uses the same game engine on much lower equipment with similar graphics. (Stable now btw)



    The funniest part about the "Diplomacy" Sphere is that there are 50 more diplomats waiting in line to do the same quest. It is a static world, and ranks as 2nd Generation at best to me. Their idea of making combat interactive is to have combo systems like FFXI eerrr... EQ2? So what? Current game design on a much lower budget looks much better, runs on less, mounted situational combat, collisions, has active attacking and active blocking. I mean, this looks pretty to me: http://www.darkfallonline.com/gallery/visuals/javaw_2006_11_27_20_52_02_91



    It is really really a stretch to call "Continent vs Continent" "realm vs realm" when you are in a static world. On the other hand, the idea of taking over an enemy capital city, kidnapping the king, and looting the city sounds better. (Warhammer Online)



    The final answer to my question above, "I don't want to play Vanguard because I gave up playing EQ1 a long time ago." Oh but in Vanguard you can ride dragons! Well, Dark and Light has that too. Hang gliders, parachutes, snowboarding and more.
  • fisch1002fisch1002 Member Posts: 9

    I will give SoE credit on EQ1 though,after taking it over from Verant the game went to a whole new level.Kunark-Velious was great.It had nice solo content as well as raid content.The real grind came with Luclin and PoP,I mean Luclin was just annoying and PoP was a little over the top,you needed a group to grind xp from mobs because they hit so ridiculously hard and summoned you for a beat down.(obviously not a war class).So if you were not well equipped or better,you were in trouble and the xp reward for these mobs were terrible at 62ish,but it's all you had if you couldn't find the right group.

    Raid content was extremly poor,you need sixty some people just to go and try to advance to the next plane,so unless you were in a tight guild with some nice equipment it was a hard fight,but the hardest part was getting the people together to do it.That is what scares me about SoE if you kept the soloable content there and don't need but around 30 people to raid (typical fear,hate ect...pre-uber gear from other expansions)it will be a lot of fun,but if I have to absolutley get a group to go out and xp grind it will certainly change my outlook.I hope they aren't going to go into the alternate experience point system where the abilities were more novel than useful,I'll admit a couple of them were nice but for the most part they weren't all that.

    EQ1 with kunark and velious were very good,but too many expansions without adding correctly to your spell list or damage ability will be weak.I know they don't want you to go back to old content and walk all over it,but the old rewards weren't worth it as compared to your level everyone just did it for market value/twinks or trying to get thier epics done,which is a whole other choke point

    I wish i could have gotten into beta for Vanguard,I've heard a lot from both sides and I really wanted to see for myself,but If it has the characteristics of eq1 kunark era,it will be a very good game to play.

    I also know comparing it to eq is not the same as it is its own entity..

    just my 2 cents

  • gnomexxxgnomexxx Member Posts: 2,920
    Originally posted by Amathe


    Let's look at a timeline instead of just quoting Brad.
    Time 1: Sigil pitches the game to Microsoft and they like the Vision (tm). They like it so much they are willing to invest many millions of dollars and fund its development over the course of many years.
    Time 2: Brad and Co. work on the game for years, all the while touting the freedom MS affords them to make the game the way Sigil wants, and the harmonious relationship they enjoy.
    Time 3: Game goes into closed Beta.
    Time 4: Suddenly, out of the blue, Sigil needs a new financial backer and a new publisher because of alleged differences with MS about how the game should be made, and an alleged need for more control.
    Think about this. What really changed? It's obvious. The beta. MS saw something in the beta that caused them to realize that this was going to be a turd. Why else would they walk away from a return on their investment as the game is approaching launch in the next six months or so? MS saw the feedback and said "fix this crap" and Brad said no and had to buy them out instead.
    So the question each of you has to answer is, do you think MS are fools? Do you think they are unable to see the problems? Do you think they just hate money and walked away from something that was clearly going to be a huge success? Do you think they would have had those reservations if, as Brad likes to imply, the beta testers like the game and are raving about how great it is? You know better.
    I dunno.  Let's ask Turbine how much good Microsoft did for them with the release of Asheron's Call 2.  Microsoft screwed up the release of that game royally.  And it took them forever to give up control to Turbine so they could finally get the game running right.



    My question is, who is worse?  Microsoft or SOE?  Everyone is so quick to jump on SOE and completely disregard all the evil things Microsoft has done. 

    ===============================
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