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Official "We're Angry about SOE" Thread

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  • n2soonersn2sooners Member UncommonPosts: 926


    Originally posted by Agricola1
    Bah! I give it 6 months before Brad sells out and does a runner, leaving everyone in the lurch at the total mercy of the evil $medley. Fanbois have been warned.

    And in six months you will be here saying the same damn thing (or hiding out when it doesn't happen).

    image image

  • AshadyAshady Member Posts: 5
    SOE cannot affect this game at all... they sell it and thats it!! i mean im happy its happened due to the fact that i dont have to drop my all access pass to play VSOH

    Beware fo sexy beast

  • ShaydeShayde Member Posts: 4,529
    Look.. I hate $OE as much as the next sane guy, but when I read...



    Fact: $medley sees you as cattle, and will begin sheering you from day one.


    You're mixing your livestock. You milk cattle, you sheer sheep. While both would work well in this case, at least get the metaphor right.

    I'd have used "Buggering" instead of sheering myself.


    Shayde - SWG (dead)
    Proud member of the Cabal.
    image

    imageimage
    It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled :( - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me.
    I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
    09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

  • Agricola1Agricola1 Member UncommonPosts: 4,977


    Originally posted by Shayde
    Look.. I hate $OE as much as the next sane guy, but when I read...


    Fact: $medley sees you as cattle, and will begin sheering you from day one.

    You're mixing your livestock. You milk cattle, you sheer sheep. While both would work well in this case, at least get the metaphor right.

    I'd have used "Buggering" instead of sheering myself.


    OK you got me, I was probably thinking about burning $medley and all his evil kind at the stake whilst typing. Although if you think about it after milking a cow to death $medley would probably try sheering it, he's just hat kind of guy right? 

    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"

    CS Lewis

  • beautyisinbeautyisin Member Posts: 405


    Originally posted by Agricola1

    Originally posted by Shayde Look.. I hate $OE as much as the next sane guy, but when I read...
    Fact: $medley sees you as cattle, and will begin sheering you from day one.
    You're mixing your livestock. You milk cattle, you sheer sheep. While both would work well in this case, at least get the metaphor right.I'd have used "Buggering" instead of sheering myself.
    OK you got me, I was probably thinking about burning $medley and all his evil kind at the stake whilst typing. Although if you think about it after milking a cow to death $medley would probably try sheering it, he's just hat kind of guy right? 


    lol you two are cracking me up, i might just start a crusade against $oe for the fun of it. I mean it's something to do right? ::::02::

    image

  • Agricola1Agricola1 Member UncommonPosts: 4,977


    Originally posted by beautyisin


    Originally posted by Agricola1

    Originally posted by Shayde Look.. I hate $OE as much as the next sane guy, but when I read...
    Fact: $medley sees you as cattle, and will begin sheering you from day one.
    You're mixing your livestock. You milk cattle, you sheer sheep. While both would work well in this case, at least get the metaphor right.I'd have used "Buggering" instead of sheering myself.
    OK you got me, I was probably thinking about burning $medley and all his evil kind at the stake whilst typing. Although if you think about it after milking a cow to death $medley would probably try sheering it, he's just hat kind of guy right? 


    lol you two are cracking me up, i might just start a crusade against $oe for the fun of it. I mean it's something to do right? ::::02::


    Too late mate I already did that, but for some strange reason no-one's signed up yet :(

            DEATH TO $OE!

               DEUS VULT!

    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"

    CS Lewis

  • VendelVendel Member Posts: 12

    what non-sense. Someone's so angry in here about playing wow, they doesn't have the guts to try eq2 because they know it's better but meh... guess what? it's made by SoE. What game did SoE ruined? SWG? Nonsense! The only peoples who ruined SWG were the player base. On the forum everyone complained "too hard to be a jedi" "I want to be a jedi" "how do you become a jedi" when they tell you how, surprisingly everyone becomes a jedi and suddenly the game goes boggers. If peoples wouldn't have complained, there wouldn't have to be 2 major change in the game and it would be running fine.

    Don't say Matrix Online was ruined by SoE either, there was no way for the game to be successful with such a small player base anyway.

    SoE is trying to turn EQ2 into WoW? non sense again, look at the forum, everyone complains about the game because it's not WoW, but who complains? peoples that has been playing WoW in the first place. They complain the game's too hard  luckily they didn't tried DDO after some updates where they made everything so much thougher, you couldn't even solo a monster of your own level.

    On another point, what is the compagny responsible for the most succesful mmorpg ever? what compagny worked to make the genre as popular as it is? Because of Everquest about 25 to 35 millions of peoples play mmorpgs today.

    Why would Vanguard not be a good game? for what it boast it looks to be one of the most promising game of the genre. Oh yeah... SoE publish it, but developing and publishing is 2 different thing. They doesn't have anything to say about the developement of the game, they're just paid to put the game in stores. Much like Atari publishes DDO, but Turbine is making it in fact. The reason for Sigil to need a publisher is simple, SoE has all the tools to make box, cd's, manuals. Without forgetting the shipments... All in all it isn't a small fee. Guess what? Every studio that develops game relies on compagnies like SoE, Atari, Bandai to publish there game because of that.

    Back just a year ago or so, studios like Sigil couldn't afford to develop mmorpgs on their own, it's where came in Microsoft and SoE, they had the capital to do it. But with the expertise that has been developped, the fund gained, studio's like Turbine or Sigil can now develop their own game, without having to share anything about the conception. So before killing a game that looks so promising like Vanguard is, I'd wait to try it out first.

  • VendelVendel Member Posts: 12

    what non-sense. Someone's so angry in here about playing wow, they doesn't have the guts to try eq2 because they know it's better but meh... guess what? it's made by SoE. What game did SoE ruined? SWG? Nonsense! The only peoples who ruined SWG were the player base. On the forum everyone complained "too hard to be a jedi" "I want to be a jedi" "how do you become a jedi" when they tell you how, surprisingly everyone becomes a jedi and suddenly the game goes boggers. If peoples wouldn't have complained, there wouldn't have to be 2 major change in the game and it would be running fine.

    Don't say Matrix Online was ruined by SoE either, there was no way for the game to be successful with such a small player base anyway.

    SoE is trying to turn EQ2 into WoW? non sense again, look at the forum, everyone complains about the game because it's not WoW, but who complains? peoples that has been playing WoW in the first place. They complain the game's too hard  luckily they didn't tried DDO after some updates where they made everything so much thougher, you couldn't even solo a monster of your own level.

    On another point, what is the compagny responsible for the most succesful mmorpg ever? what compagny worked to make the genre as popular as it is? Because of Everquest about 25 to 35 millions of peoples play mmorpgs today.

    Why would Vanguard not be a good game? for what it boast it looks to be one of the most promising game of the genre. Oh yeah... SoE publish it, but developing and publishing is 2 different thing. They doesn't have anything to say about the developement of the game, they're just paid to put the game in stores. Much like Atari publishes DDO, but Turbine is making it in fact. The reason for Sigil to need a publisher is simple, SoE has all the tools to make box, cd's, manuals. Without forgetting the shipments... All in all it isn't a small fee. Guess what? Every studio that develops game relies on compagnies like SoE, Atari, Bandai to publish there game because of that.

    Back just a year ago or so, studios like Sigil couldn't afford to develop mmorpgs on their own, it's where came in Microsoft and SoE, they had the capital to do it. But with the expertise that has been developped, the fund gained, studio's like Turbine or Sigil can now develop their own game, without having to share anything about the conception. So before killing a game that looks so promising like Vanguard is, I'd wait to try it out first.

  • VendelVendel Member Posts: 12

    what non-sense. Someone's so angry in here about playing wow, they doesn't have the guts to try eq2 because they know it's better but meh... guess what? it's made by SoE. What game did SoE ruined? SWG? Nonsense! The only peoples who ruined SWG were the player base. On the forum everyone complained "too hard to be a jedi" "I want to be a jedi" "how do you become a jedi" when they tell you how, surprisingly everyone becomes a jedi and suddenly the game goes boggers. If peoples wouldn't have complained, there wouldn't have to be 2 major change in the game and it would be running fine.

    Don't say Matrix Online was ruined by SoE either, there was no way for the game to be successful with such a small player base anyway.

    SoE is trying to turn EQ2 into WoW? non sense again, look at the forum, everyone complains about the game because it's not WoW, but who complains? peoples that has been playing WoW in the first place. They complain the game's too hard  luckily they didn't tried DDO after some updates where they made everything so much thougher, you couldn't even solo a monster of your own level.

    On another point, what is the compagny responsible for the most succesful mmorpg ever? what compagny worked to make the genre as popular as it is? Because of Everquest about 25 to 35 millions of peoples play mmorpgs today.

    Why would Vanguard not be a good game? for what it boast it looks to be one of the most promising game of the genre. Oh yeah... SoE publish it, but developing and publishing is 2 different thing. They doesn't have anything to say about the developement of the game, they're just paid to put the game in stores. Much like Atari publishes DDO, but Turbine is making it in fact. The reason for Sigil to need a publisher is simple, SoE has all the tools to make box, cd's, manuals. Without forgetting the shipments... All in all it isn't a small fee. Guess what? Every studio that develops game relies on compagnies like SoE, Atari, Bandai to publish there game because of that.

    Back just a year ago or so, studios like Sigil couldn't afford to develop mmorpgs on their own, it's where came in Microsoft and SoE, they had the capital to do it. But with the expertise that has been developped, the fund gained, studio's like Turbine or Sigil can now develop their own game, without having to share anything about the conception. So before killing a game that looks so promising like Vanguard is, I'd wait to try it out first.

  • ShaydeShayde Member Posts: 4,529
    The reason $OE buggered SWG wasn't because they listened to the PLAYERS... but they listened to the EXIT INTERVIEWS of the people leaving and the FOCUS GROUPS filled with people who never played to find out where the game should go.

    EW2 blows not because it isn't WoW... it's because after a complete revamp, it still blows.

    But thanks for posting it thrice.


    Shayde - SWG (dead)
    Proud member of the Cabal.
    image

    imageimage
    It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled :( - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me.
    I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
    09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

  • Agricola1Agricola1 Member UncommonPosts: 4,977

    I thought it was only the "vocal minority" that posted on forums, well it is according to $OE. So if they listened to the "vocal minority" and changed their product accordingly then they have fully earnt threads like these in multiple forums.

    Also another failing of $OE is the fact that they don't play their own products, but admit publicly to playing and enjoying WoW. I play EVE and enjoy it, but if those DEVs at CCP said "Hey we all play WoW and really enjoy it, and we think they have some great ideas that could help our MMO" then they'd be crucified by the playerbase.

    Still goodluck with Vanguard because you are gonna need it baby!

    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"

    CS Lewis

  • SalvatorisSalvatoris Member Posts: 1,360

    I think that while only a certain amount of gamers regularly post on forums, the percentage of active posters is high enough to represent a reasonably accurate sample of the customer-base. Saying that our views are in the minority simple because every single player doesn't post on the forums is like saying the president's 29% approval rating represents a minority opinion, because only a few thousand people are polled.

    I also think it's funny how some of the posters here are saying that people come to the vanguard forums here just to complain about SOE. If you look at who is posting, you'll see that the anti-SOE sentiments are mainly coming from people who were already posting in the Vanguard forums before the SOE deal was announced.

  • MasterChaosMasterChaos Member Posts: 75

    Well here is a poster that has not posted in any of the Vanguard forums, and I have something to say about SOE.  Any game they lay their hands too, can no longer be called and RPG.  The only market SOE has ever been interested in is the power gamer.  If you dont like ganking people, if you dont like having to be power leveled just to play the game, if you dont like everyone wearing the same clothing because you have to have the best stats for your level, then SOE doesnt care what you think.

    I was keeping an eye on Vanguard but I wasnt watching closely.  I dont know the details about how or when it happened but I can tell you that SOE is the reason I am not playing ANY MMORPGs at this time.  I am one of those old school RPG gamers that actually played EverQuest from the first month it launched.  EQ USED to be a good game.  It USED to be fun.  Then come the age of SOE.  Customer service?  just try it.  SOE has the absolute worst record when it comes to customer service.  They would rather nerf you, punt you, or ban you then actually deal with a problem you are having.

    And for those of you playing EQ2, you folks dont really understand what and RPG is.  And for those of you playing WOW, you might as well just play console first person shooters, because WOW isnt even close to an RPG.  SOE is the reason all of the MMORPGs that are on the market right now have absolutely nothing to do with roleplaying.  Read the initials. MMORPS  Massively Multiplayer Online ROLE PLAYING GAME.  Not beat up your neighbor who happens to only be half your level so you can have his stuff or even worse, just because you can.  Not grind grind grind, loop hole to avoid the grind.  Not gear hunter, not uber bossy "this is about me and I dont care about you" game.  Sorry got off track a little.

    Now that SOE ownes Vanguard I wont touch it with a ten foot pole.

  • n2soonersn2sooners Member UncommonPosts: 926
    So, now it's Sony's fault that players (even in non-Sony games) don't role play? 

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  • MasterChaosMasterChaos Member Posts: 75

    Well like an earlier post said, EQ was not the only game out at the time.  AC and UO were also online at the same time, in fact UO came out first.  And in the beginning it was PnP and MUD players that started playing MMORPGs.  When Sony took control of EQ, they already had a large player base from Console and FPS games.  Sony reworked EQ to make it more attractive to their player base.  That change effected the look and feel of every game that has come out since, because Sony did attract a very large population to EQ so everyone else followed the leader.

    So yes I am saying that it was SOE that changed the design of MMORPGs.  I dont really like to play a RPG that has been butchered to attract ADD, attention hogging, instant gratafication, addrenaline junky, egotistical, me me me chair warriors with no respect for what RPG really means.  Yes I do blame it on SOE.

  • n2soonersn2sooners Member UncommonPosts: 926
    Sony was actually in on Verant from the start. They had their hands in on EQ from the very begining. And I dare say, EQ was nearing it's peak when Sony fully brought Verant into the fold and turned it into SoE. By the time they started making the game easier and easier (PoP), the population had already peaked and other games were already hitting the market. And one of the big selling points of these new games is that they would take the hard parts (like level loss or corpse recoveries) out of the game. They were often marketed as easier than EQ. So, the rash of easier games weren't because they were following in EQ's footsteps (I actually remember seeing many accusations against SOE that they were taking those things from newer games), the rash of easier games came about from those whining that EQ was just too tiem consuming and they wanted everything now.

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  • NibsNibs Member UncommonPosts: 287


    Originally posted by Vendel


    On another point, what is the compagny responsible for the most succesful mmorpg ever? what compagny worked to make the genre as popular as it is?


    Blizzard (WoW), and before that NCSoft (Lineage).

    Don't get me wrong, EQ did great things for the genre. But that is in the past.

    SOE has been in a downward spiral since they did the original CU on SW:G. (Some) Players seem to have zero faith in anything that SOE is even remotely connected with. SOE have absolutely no regard for their customers. I was looking forward to V:SoH...right up until SOE became involved, I haven't even looked at the official site since that day. I will never again, in any way, shape or form give SOE any of my more money. Ever.

    Look at it this way: you are a member of a gym and go there 3 times a week to do your thing. Then it gets bought out by a big chain who then proceed to remove the air conditioning, the vending machines, the excercise equipment and the trainers, all the while claiming it's what you want. Then they kick you in the face and say that even though /you/ weren't aware of it, that's what you really wanted. Would you stay a member of that gym? Would you ever go to another gym run by that company?

    Or: you regularly fly between LA and New York on business. You always use the same carrier as you like the service they provide. They get bought out, replace all the stewardesses with new ones from Asia that have little or no understanding of the English language, they cut the seat size in half, do away with in-flight meals and entertainment then introduce new aircraft that tend to crash (all because they say it's what focus groups wanted). Would you carry on using that airline for that journey? Would you use that airline for any other flights?

  • Binny45Binny45 Member UncommonPosts: 518

    Ok, for starts, Age of Conan is being optimized to work with Windows Vista.  That's it.  It will also work with Windows XP.  It is not being developed by Microsoft Studios.

    Funcom is the company that is developing it.  They developed the games Anarchy Online and The Longest Journey.  Anarchy Online, though a very rocky start, has developed it's own very loyal following.  I will admit that I don't play Anarchy Online, and am going off of third party information, but thier player base seems quite happy with the service and support that Funcom gives them.

    Add to this the fact that Funcom has been quite forthcoming in showcasing the following:

    1) Age of Conan's Class system

    2) Melee and Ranged combat system.  Skill vs. Auto Attack.

    3) Mounted Combat

    4) Siege Combat

    5) Player built cities and the PvE content it spawns

    6) Prestige classes

    7) The fact that the game is a single player game for the first 20 levels.  There are NO monthly fees until you bring one character beyond the single player game.  Upon doing this, you have the choice of running an alternate character from the beginning or starting the MMO aspect immediately.

    www.ageofconan.com

    Feel free to look up what I've announced.  They seem to be more than willing to show off what their game can do, and quite frequently keep their potential player base up to date.

    They make no apologies for the fact that the game will be rated M (possible Adults Only), and the community seems more than happy with the fact that the game will NOT be for everyone.

    There is still some WoW hatred there (I guess that's one thing Vanguard and AoC have in common), but for the most part, the community is mature, and generally do not degenerate into a flame fest.

    My point on all this?

    What has Sigil shown us?

    Really though, where's the videos showing the "3rd Generation" MMO in action?  So far, it looks great.....picture wise.  But! It's nothing I haven't already seen before.

    Don't get me wrong, I still have fond memories of EQ1, I'm even tempted every now and then to go back (my marriage and son keep me from it), so my interest in Vanguard is definately peaked.

    But to be honest, from what I've seen of responses to peoples inquiries about the game, and the lack of response from the devs as far as actual game substance, I'm not all that impressed.

    Folks, there's no doubt Vanguard is going to be hard.  In fact, I'm sure that the Nerf bat will be sitting near by waiting to ensure that Vanguard is going to live up to that name.

    But treating people with the disrespect I see in the forums, though it might weed out the "weak", will have an affect on subscribers.  Remember, for the small elite that are out there, it's the mass of semi-casual people that will fund your dream.  If all you had on the servers were elite people, there wouldn't be enough people to pay the bills.  Sure you'll have your "Uber hard game" but for what? 6 months? A Year?

    Uberness might help your ego, but it makes it harder to pay the bills.

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  • HavokRainerHavokRainer Member Posts: 6
    I know my whole guild from galaxies was all going to it, we were very exctied, then we found out SOE was involved.....and i cried........what was sigil thinking  ) :
  • Binny45Binny45 Member UncommonPosts: 518

    SWG fans definately have an axe to grind with those guys.

    I played SWG for 6 months.  It was very cool, had some neat concepts.  It wasn't my cup of tea, but I can see why those that loved it kept playing despite the constant screw ups by SOE.  I had figured that the NGE would have killed it, but sadly people are STILL holding on.

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  • reylurynreyluryn Member Posts: 24

    None of us know what happened.  All we know is that SOE has horrible support in all of it's games.  If you get to talk to someone they are generally rude and tell you sorry but they can not help you. Have a nice day.

    Did MS pull out or did Vigil pull out? Did SOE offer a backdoor deal because they need a success?

  • Binny45Binny45 Member UncommonPosts: 518

    It's something that no one will probably ever know.

    This is usually due to companies living in fear of lawsuits and negative public exposure.

    What I SUSPECT happened was that Microsoft asked Vigil to do something that didn't jive with their Vision, and they agreed to disagree.  SOE was more than happy to take VSoH on due to it's built up hype.

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  • SalvatorisSalvatoris Member Posts: 1,360

    I think it's more likely that Microsoft was generally unhappy with the pace of production or the current state of the game. Microsoft isn't generally know for letting go of an IP once they have their claws in it. They would rather see a franchise die that have a competitor put the game out. If they were excited about the prospects for the game to be a success they certainly wouldn't have let it go.

  • n2soonersn2sooners Member UncommonPosts: 926
    MS most likely wanted to ship sooner rather than later and Brad (along with all the beta testers) said it wasn't close to being ready to ship. I am sure if MS had owned it, then it would have either shipped half assed, or been killed just like Mythica was. Funny how they don't seem to tollerate their games being late, but their primary software is always running way behind and delivering much less than promised.

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  • zethcarnzethcarn Member UncommonPosts: 1,558

    We aren't playing for SOE,  we aren't playing for Brad McQuaid, and  we aren't playing for John Smedely.

    We are playing for OURSELFS.  Look around you!  Every other MMO out there is either old or sucks bad or both!  I guess I don't have much choice. 

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