Yep, i downloaded trial played until i finished that first quest to gather those wizards stones, said Fu** this and logged off, game was disappointing =(
Human Commando-Breakdown lvl 16 Lvl 7 Engineer (Kick arse Fun) Auto Assault World of Warcraft Return To Castle Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory
Can't say that I've played many which I really didn't like, but DDO was one of them. And as a disclaimer, I was following this game for almost two years, I was really annoyed.
Hear are the MMORPGs I've played, listed in order from my most favorite to my least favorite:
Everquest
Everquest 2
World of Warcraft
Dark Ages of Camelot
Lineage 2
Anarchy Online
SWG
Horizons
The first Everquest was and so far still is the best MMO ever in my opinion, for the simple fact that it had a truly role-playing atmosphere. I probably spent more time actually roleplaying with other players in that game than I did hunting or questing. The factions, the gods and religions, the story, the complexity of the game and the maturity required of the players made for a great atmosphere for roleplaying and adventuring in an enormous world. I have yet to find another MMORPG that really made me want to actually roleplay, or care about the characters or the "world" as much.
Oooops, let me get on topic!
Lineage 2 had problems with grinding, bots and I think the character creation piece was accidentally left out??? BUT the graphics in that game were so great, the characters were so attractive (where else can I make a hot, dark character with afro puffs or cornrows as a hairstyle?) that I would consider playing it again if I were assured that those 3 things had been addressed.
Horizons on the other hand, is definitely the worst. The graphics were unnattractive, I was uninspired to finish quests, the combat felt very awkward, it felt like more thought was put into designing the crafting content of the game than in the adventuring and roleplaying, and server performance was just awful. The day that it took 12 minutes for the items that I had picked up from my vault to actually materialize in my inventory was the day I finally went ahead and unsubscribed.
SWG is second and not last for me only because the character creation was AWESOME. At least I had fun making Twi'leks, in Horizons I couldn't even enjoy that much.
After a quick glance through this thread I think I've noticed no one has mentioned Mourning/Realms of Torment. Might I remind you that Mourning did in fact achieve final release status and as one of the most hyped games on this site for months I would include Mourning in the catergory of "almost major" MMOs. As such I believe Mourning is worthy of acknowledgement here.
This game promised so much to those of us who loved games like Shadowbane even with all their problems. Mourning failed to deliver in EVERY imaginable aspect, the details of which I could hardly hope to go into here. I preordered thinking I would be one of the lucky ones who was there when the amazing journey all began, and even when my white cardboard box holding the inkjet printer sticky labeled CD-R arrived I held on to hope thinking "Maybe they put so much of their resources into making the game, they had nothing left to create the discs and boxes with!". Oh what a fool I was. I booted up the game to find a whopping one other person in my starting town just before the client/server/everything crashed.
I have never in my life been lied to more completely than by the people in charge of Mourning (excepting perhaps the US government). One of the best decisions ever made by mmorpg.com was removing Mourning from their games list before it came out. If only I had listened! Even under threat of torture I will never, ever, preorder an MMO again.
Originally posted by Bigslice Originally posted by reavo
Okay, innovative things in Everquest 2.
-- Quests that engage you in the environment and atmosphere of the game. Example, quests that get you to collect parts of monsters and study them to learn more about each creature in the world. -- To extend on the last point, when you first encounter monsters in the world each one has their own language that at first sounds like gibberish. As you collect special items (scrolls, notes, etc) from them and study these items you learn a little more of their language. Pretty soon that goblin is taunting you in a language you understand. -- The character voice overs. They're amazing. They give more of an immersion into the game. -- The guild rank system. This allows the guilds to have a common goal towards an achievement status. It keeps my guild busy a lot. Not every guild cares about this, but it's nice that it's there if you want to use it. -- Items that you pick up that can be used to interact with special places in the world. Example, the scrying stones. You find areas of the world that are magical and use the scrying stone to discover treasure and items. -- Quests that are more than just go kill x of these and y of those. I hate quests like that and WoW is poisoned with them. -- My house. Although other games I've played have had housing, I find EQ2's housing much more fun. There are a ton of items to put into your home to personalize it and if it ever gets too small or you don't like the neighborhood your in, you can move. -- The combat. By far the best looking combat of any game I've played. The battles are awesome. Almost like a movie. -- The mentor system. If you want to team with someone of a lower level than you, you can put yourself in mentor mode. Then the monsters on their level are a challenge to you and you get experience. Plus you can teach the cool newbs how to play and catch them up to you.
There, I think that's plenty for now. There's more, trust me. Everytime I play I gain a greater appreciation for the game.
As for EQ1, I'm a little confused by your problems with the graphics. Yeah, they're not the best. But that's not EQ1's claim to fame. It's claim to fame is being around for so long that it's a behemoth in content. There's no way that you could possibly see everything in that game. It's HUGE. I've been playing it forever and still go to new zones and go on new raids and tasks. The graphics are adequate to set a mood. But the character creation and content are what set it apart from the rest. I don't mind outdated graphics if the game is fun. I have no problem playing old Zelda games. It's the gameplay design that really matters to me.
But, if you want to judge an old game by it's graphics, I'll respect you for that. I'm always excited to see new games myself. That's another reason I'm so into EQ2. It looks incredible.
And as far as majority rules. Nyah. Not for me. To me, my taste rules for me. Not what everyone else is playing.
What I love most about this post is that almost all of things on it that are innovative for EQ2.... they're all in games that came out before EQ2. I could go down the list and name a game for each one of those... in fact I will. The points below are numbered in order from top to bottom:
1) WoW has plenty of quests that involve killing creature A to learn more about it and then moving to B, C, etc... all part of a story arc. I disagree. I play tons of both games. And I can't recall a single WoW quest that got me to understand more about a creature and it's heritage and habits. Maybe I'm wrong, if so let me know. But I haven't come across one that I can remember. EQ2 has specific quests for each enemy. The orcs, ghosts, goblins, etc. You loot parts of each creature you kill and then study them to learn more. Like I said, I don't recall that anywhere in WoW.
2) AC had creatures that yelled random phrases that were unintelligible. Lot's of games have monsters that speak gibberish. But which game do you know where you can collect notes and documents from that race, study them, and slowly learn their language? That was my point.
3) I'll give EQ2 the voiceovers. Thanks. I think they're awesome too.
4) There's a type of guild ranking system in Linage and DaoC (maybe not to the same degree...) I don't think they are of the same degree. I know there are others. But I was talking about the way the guild system is handled in EQ2. There are heritage quests that people get and then you take your guild along to get advancement points. That's innovative. The guild system may be a broad category, but how it's handled is what I was referring to.
5) Just about EVERY MMO I've played has items that interact with the environment... even CoH.... and they're pretty skimpy on the environment interactions. Yes, I know. That's why I gave a specific example of the environment interaction in EQ2. The scrying stones. I don't know another game that has something like that. I know games have similarities. But there is innovation within those that can make a game completely different and more fun.
6) Again, every mmo has quests other than go here kill this... and EQ2 has it's fair share of them as well. This point, as a whole, is very weak. Yeah, you're right. Every game does have those kinds of quests. But I would bet 90% of the quests in WoW are like that compared to much less being this way in EQ2. I know they are there in EQ2, but they are considerably less. Trust me, like I said I play both games a lot.
7) AO had very elaborate houses (or apartments as they called them). Like I said, there are games with similarities. But the way the housing is handled in EQ2 is cool. I like it better. And didn't you have to pre-order to get the housing in AO? Or was that just to make sure you had fist dibs at at house? I can't remember.
8) Combat presentation is your choice... I personally don't feel EQ2's combat engine is any better than WoW or many other mmo's engine. The best one in my opinion is CoH/CoV or Matrix Online (maybe the only thing I like about those two). All they do in WoW for combat is swing their weapons. In EQ2 when I cast a sickness spell on an enemy, he gets the sickness. He breaks out in a rash and starts coughing and hacking up flem. It's disgusting, but cool. And when I punch or kick an enemy in EQ2 they double over in pain. There's none of that in WoW. The closest thing I've seen was in Asheron's Call 2 where damage would actually show up on the creature. But the interaction as far as reacting to exactly what kind of damage they took was no where close. And it's definitely no where close in WoW.
9) The EXACT same mentor system is in CoH... and I think I can recall a type of that system in Earth and Beyond. You may be right. I don't know. Never played those games much. But I think it's a cool idea. So if they have the mentor system then awesome.
So yeah... this is my first post, but I was just reading over the boards, came across this, found it so horribly wrong that I had to give my two cents.
Originally posted by donfin Originally posted by reavo Okay, innovative things in Everquest 2.
-- Quests that engage you in the environment and atmosphere of the game. Example, quests that get you to collect parts of monsters and study them to learn more about each creature in the world. -- To extend on the last point, when you first encounter monsters in the world each one has their own language that at first sounds like gibberish. As you collect special items (scrolls, notes, etc) from them and study these items you learn a little more of their language. Pretty soon that goblin is taunting you in a language you understand. -- The character voice overs. They're amazing. They give more of an immersion into the game. -- The guild rank system. This allows the guilds to have a common goal towards an achievement status. It keeps my guild busy a lot. Not every guild cares about this, but it's nice that it's there if you want to use it. -- Items that you pick up that can be used to interact with special places in the world. Example, the scrying stones. You find areas of the world that are magical and use the scrying stone to discover treasure and items. -- Quests that are more than just go kill x of these and y of those. I hate quests like that and WoW is poisoned with them. -- My house. Although other games I've played have had housing, I find EQ2's housing much more fun. There are a ton of items to put into your home to personalize it and if it ever gets too small or you don't like the neighborhood your in, you can move. -- The combat. By far the best looking combat of any game I've played. The battles are awesome. Almost like a movie. -- The mentor system. If you want to team with someone of a lower level than you, you can put yourself in mentor mode. Then the monsters on their level are a challenge to you and you get experience. Plus you can teach the cool newbs how to play and catch them up to you.
There, I think that's plenty for now. There's more, trust me. Everytime I play I gain a greater appreciation for the game.
As for EQ1, I'm a little confused by your problems with the graphics. Yeah, they're not the best. But that's not EQ1's claim to fame. It's claim to fame is being around for so long that it's a behemoth in content. There's no way that you could possibly see everything in that game. It's HUGE. I've been playing it forever and still go to new zones and go on new raids and tasks. The graphics are adequate to set a mood. But the character creation and content are what set it apart from the rest. I don't mind outdated graphics if the game is fun. I have no problem playing old Zelda games. It's the gameplay design that really matters to me.
But, if you want to judge an old game by it's graphics, I'll respect you for that. I'm always excited to see new games myself. That's another reason I'm so into EQ2. It looks incredible.
And as far as majority rules. Nyah. Not for me. To me, my taste rules for me. Not what everyone else is playing.
Seeing as how your innovations have been debunked by bigslice, I won't comment on those except to say I agree with him. For the rest, I guess I'll have to break it down even more, because you said you don't understand.
I believe you keep intentionally not understanding the graphics issue I had with EQ. It wasn't old when I bought it. I think perhaps you are digging to find out when I bought EQ. To give you a timeline, Shadowbane was still in beta and about to release. A friend told me how awesome it looked, and I figured it was the same garbage I heard about EQ. EQ was the #1 MMO on the market with little competition except from UO when I bought it, (which UO also sucked). It didn't have a contemporary graphics engine when it released. I was a FPS gamer who was accustomed to using my graphics accelerator with MOST ALL games released, with exception to EQ and UO because they were sprite based graphics. It had a contemporary price tag though, along with monthly fees. I wasn't about to sit there with my top of the line computer looking at sprites. I assumed that MMOs sucked because the two leading contenders both looked like crap. Anyone who says that either program EVER had graphics that could compete with games released in it's day would be lying. Sue me for not looking past the crappy graphics, but I saw nothing intriguing there. A HUGE crappy world, eh? You can have it. Unfortunately, I need more than just the promise of a good game. I also like to enjoy what I'm looking at. That's why I bothered putting an accelerator in my computer when I built it in the first place. It's too bad EQ1 didn't look incerdible when it released as you claim for EQ2.
Funny how things work, your precious EQ could not convince me to play it, yet I beta tested the supposed lesser program, SWG and guess what? I liked MMOs! They didn't suck after all! Maybe it was just that EQ1 had such terrible graphics, I didn't give it a proper chance. Who's fault is that? The developer I'd say. I guess they should have thought about that before selling me a non-accelerated game for full price in a day and age where practically every other game has it standard. That was a bad decision on the part of SOE. Oooops, SOE has made alot of bad decisions haven't they? My primary reason for not wanting to play EQ2 is that SOE runs it. I tasted SOE's brilliance during my time in SWG, and I didn't feel like a second helping.
I went from SWG to CoH. Another game I enjoyed for a time till I saw the redundancy. Bored, I bought WoW because I heard it was good, and Blizzard was behind it. I didn't like Diablo II because they over-did everything in that game. I wasn't sure if I'd like WoW. I never gave EQ2 a second glance on the shelf. I bought it, installed it and began to play. At first I didn't like it because the UI took a bit for me to adjust to. After I made it out of the starter town, I was good to go. I've been hooked ever since, though I have tried other games, looking for better.
So my MMO gameline is such -> UO, EQ, ------------ SWG Beta, SWG, Horizons Beta, CoH Beta, CoH, WoW, GW, CoV
You'll notice a huge gap between the time EQ released and when I went to SWG. That was the period of time I believed MMOs sucked because of the previous two programs. I had more understanding for the lame graphics of UO because it came out well before EQ. EQ had no excuse. It never should have been released with sprites. The technology was there, they just didn't use it. I hope this is all concise enough, so that you no longer fail to understand my reasoning.
Majority rules meant that when you say WoW sucks, there are legions who will disagree with you. I don't play WoW because it is currently the #1 MMO. If that were the case, I'd have played EQ1 more. WoW is in my opinion the best MMO currently on the market, and that's why I continue to play it, until something better comes along. I bought GW and CoV after WoW and found out CoV is CoH with a coat of paint and I did not like the look and feel of GW, so I'm not a WoW fanboi. I'm looking and listening, but I don't see anything better at the moment. I was unaware that so many people hated WoW. but that's cool. To each his own. Understand though, I don't want to convert anybody to WoW. You go ahead and play your EQ2.
Have a nice day.
There, my innovation "debunking" has been undebunked (I hope). lol. See my comment above for details.
And I don't play EQ for the graphics. I play it cuz it's fun. I love the character development, the number of classes, and the places to explore. But that's a matter of opinion. So, we'll toss that argument away. Hehe.
Originally posted by reavo Originally posted by Bigslice
Originally posted by reavo
6) Again, every mmo has quests other than go here kill this... and EQ2 has it's fair share of them as well. This point, as a whole, is very weak. Yeah, you're right. Every game does have those kinds of quests. But I would bet 90% of the quests in WoW are like that compared to much less being this way in EQ2. I know they are there in EQ2, but they are considerably less. Trust me, like I said I play both games a lot.
Whew, lot's of typing. Me fingers hurt.
I would have to agree. WoW has TONS more get X, and Y, and Z quests than EQ2. There are a lot of different kinds of quests in EQ2 to the point that you can tell they tried to steer away from those types of quests. Thank God.
Everyone seems to have forgotten that Guild Wars was touted as an MMO and it HAS to be the very worst game of all time in my oppinion Solo was possible for a little while but then if you didnt group the only thing you could do was kill monsters that gave you no XP or wait around in some city and look for a group for an hour or so. Totally lame gameplay, mediocre graphics, and sucky character creation all mixed to make this the worst game EVER
I would say Lineage 2 was a pretty bad MMORPG... first of all there were insane consequences for being a PK, and after you hit about level 30-35 leveling gets EXTREMELY repetitive and boring. I found myself grinding on the same exact monsters for days... If you love to grind this game is for you. If you love newb pvp where you click your 3 best attacks and wait for them to recharge this game is for you.
after spending about an hour reading this (could have created a char in wow and be lvl 20 by now, lol), thought i would add my peneth worth.
I was brought up on EQ, my first mmo, i loved it, played it for 3 years. Had many good friends and some that became RL friends. Game is awsome, huge in story, development, areas to explore etc etc. I think at that time, the only thing that let it down was lack of quests, as most of the time was spent grinding to your next lvl. But nothing else was close to it so it was part of the fun. Then EQ2 hit the shelves and the population really dropped. I remember waiting in line at some areas for hours to get my chance at a respawn (like WOWs BGS and raids today really). But again, the group would go off and hunt for fun, loot or spend time on craft skills, especially as you could craft in anything you wanted and all benefited self and others.
I finally submitted to EQ2, i lasted about a month. Couldnt stick it for some reason. Didnt like the group only kill mobs idea, especially if solo. The game is graphically good, spells are cool when cast, but you soon dont see this anymore, you get used to it. I have tried it again very recently and like some of the new changes, like easy quest finders (WOW again lol). COmmunity seemed a bit small though probabily on the wrong server. But still i found the game repetative, yes i was only low lvl, but nothing seemed to jump out at me and make me say "cool, like it".
Then came WOW. Pretty, easy, funny............................. sure there was soemthing else......................nope thats about it. I enjoyed getting my warrior up to lvl 60, which didnt take long at all. But then the game died. I hate wasting my free time away from work waiting in queues to log on, raid or BG. I could save my time altogether and not play a game, could read or study things like that but hey we all need some relaxation. WoW is a pick up and play when you want type of game, it sppon feeds you through the whol game from q to q and lvl to lv with the occasional grind for money or that difficult lvl 19-20, 29-30 bits. It is good in its own right, but i think its very short lifed. Expansions - read the pre-reports but game will not change much to keep me interested i think.
Tried EVE - sorry, i do need to work too, plus i like to see my char, not a space ship. Couldnt get into it. Got fed up just seeing space things, i like a bit more scenery and stuff.
COH - ok for about 3 hours then really lost it, didnt like the structure of the game, too repetative, not enough other material to keep me ammused. Same things to do but different monsters etc.
COV- as COH
Rose - i think i am too old for that one lol, bouncing jelly beans and stuff.
Guild wars- ok, got good alround content, good graphics, plenty to do, nice PVP, and no monthly cost. Again, i thought it could have more for your own development potential.
DAoC - as guild wars, but not free. Didnt get too far though, didnt like some aspect of the game just couldnt get into it.
I think what i am trying to say out of all this is that all games have good and bad points. What i like, others wont. Wow took off because its fairly easy to get on with, EQ took off because it was leading edge, and had soooooo much to do.The others used the same ideas but with different graphics and spells etc. I think my worst are COH, COV and Rose, they just lacked sole for me.
The one game i would play again, if more people were on it would be EQ, that was the daddy of games for content and structure. But you could sign your life away for a long time.
Looking at this i wonder how i find time to work and socialise. But must go back to work, more MMOs coming out soon to try
So far, the worst I have played is Seed. The customer support is so bad as to give you the impression they want you to quit the game. When my characters became corrupted somehow the support team was unable to find or fix the problem and appeared to give up on it in that they simply stopped responding to the bug report thread. This game is rife with bugs and serious lag issues, it was never ready for release. Just another game that was pushed through to release by producers blinded with with greed so they could not see that the game needed much more development time.
My Least Favorite - RF Online - The grind in FF:XI is more fun then that heap. Bad sound. Not that you could read the text, but crappy quest system. I like games with a lot of adventure to them. This is basicly a 3d Maple Story with PvP Wars.
Second Least - D&D Online - Would be great if it was free to play like GW, but have to pay just kills the whole game!
but now my least favorite is Vanguard: saga of heros .. for selling out to SOE ... me and many like me planned to go to VOH to escape SOE and forget about our horrible past experiences with em ...
and now BRAD & company sell out ... yet again (eq1 anyone?)
I usually get sick of a MMORPG pretty quick, but I try to look at the good sides to them.
CoH/CoV - Repetitive and bland, but had good char creation, leap power was entertaining (how sad is that?) and liked the radio contact. Whole time playing it was thinking that the game would be so much better as a single player action game. Probably not the impression you should be giving to your fanbase.
Motor City Online - Driving a dirt track oval by yourself to get money. Was there anything else to the game? Boring to everyone I convinced to try it. But at least they were trying something different then "like eq but..." and it gave me access to beta test that cool Mechwarrior inspired game before it was cancelled.
Shadowbane - PvE is boring, but wait till you get to the end for the PvP. Graphics suck and area is uninteresting, but wait till you get to the end for the PvP. Get to the end for PvP and find it as broken and dull as everything else. But if nothing else has a good backstory on the website that had no bearing whatsoever on the game and a player base that desperately wanted it to work.
All Asian MMORPGs - They're all the same game anyways. Grind away. And why does everyone look the same? Thought South Korea was a democracy, sounds more like an ideology of your northern communist neighbors. But I guess it appeals to the audience.
DDO - I just don't understand how it is possible. How do you get handed, what, 3 decades of story and rule building, 1000s of paperback novels, countless computer RPGs that frequently won awards for best rpg and come up with a bland instanced dungeon crawl with no purpose? Looks nice if nothing else. Wouldn't be TOO bad without the fee like Guild Wars.
Which brings me to the worst:
SWG - I didn't try it in any previous version so I have no "they ruined it" history. Absolutely every aspect of this game is not only bad and bug-ridden in a online game sense, but in gaming over all. Cookie cutter classes, bland empty environment with ghost towns everywhere, can't change anything storywise but watch the all jedi parade, space fighting is repetitive and dull compared to single player games which date back to Wing Commander, quests are all the same damn thing over and over, no point to advance (why save money, they just give you what you need most of the time), brainless ground fighting, and a player base that was either begging you to join their guild or wanting a duel and calling you a fag the whole time. This is without a doubt the worst online game ever, and I remember back to the days of L.O.R.D.
EVERY SINGLE PART OF THIS GAME HAS BEEN DONE VASTLY BETTER IN OTHER GAMES.
Well SWG was awful for me. The way the game looks, graphics, characters, gameplay. The game cannot be saved. I liked WoW and I thought it was good but I dont understand why people who havent even played it hate it. Guilds Wars was ok, I like how its free but I hate how its not a free roaming game. I just hope WAR and FE aren't as crap as SWG was!
Content/Game-Mechanic wise: 1 - Lineage 2 No character customization to speak off, griefers, gankers, pointless grind 2 - CoV/CoH Great character customization, boring and extremely repetitive content
Development-wise 1 - Star Wars: Galaxies How on earth is it possible to mess up a game based on Star Wars? Speechless... No Balance, no galactic civil war, too many jedi, time line issues, many many many bugs, just plain terrible and incompetent Devs 2 - Dungeons and Dragons Online How on earth...well you know the rest
There, my innovation "debunking" has been undebunked (I hope). lol. See my comment above for details.
And I don't play EQ for the graphics. I play it cuz it's fun. I love the character development, the number of classes, and the places to explore. But that's a matter of opinion. So, we'll toss that argument away. Hehe.
I disagree. I've read reviews and previews for the game prior to and post release, and while EQ2 is newer, it's still EQ. EQ2 has taken EQ and built upon it, as have all developers with their programs. That gives EQ the honors but not EQ2. I'm glad that there's competition, because if I don't like EQ2, someone may have made a similar game that I will enjoy. As far as honors for the MMO genre, that goes to UO. In my opinion, your innovation statements aren't valid simply because innovation means to introduce something new, and not more of this and less of that, or similar to but slightly different than another previous product, or an improved version of existing innovation. Innovation means never seen before. Your game has aspects that existed before it's time and the developers chose to grace their product with their version of something that already existed. That’s not innovation buddy.
I've seen EQ2 in action and I didn't care for it enough to want to build a character. Subsequently the EQ2 friend I have felt the same way about WoW. I think the games have much to offer, but are not really the same. I think EQ2 is an MMO for a more casual gamer whereas WoW is for more serious MMO players. Hence WoW is missing all the fluff you are lauding as innovations. The core game play however is an entirely different matter. I think that's where Blizzard chose to concentrate instead of making characters vomit in their animations. Nothing you told me of innovation interested me because it is all fluff.
I've always been in the Horde, (I don't like the Alliance characters.) I'm also in a raiding guild. I find the fights challenging. It's not about the loot, it's about getting into the deep dark and dangerous parts of the world and coming out with Nefarius's head! I enjoy being challenged. That with a group of like minded friends is great. I love the PvP aspect of WoW, though I am not on a PvP server. By and large, WoW I would not change a thing, except the farming and the economy. More controls are needed because there’s just too much madness there. Make NPCs with major mana pots and such that actually give me the choice to buy from the auction house, or the NPC. That would do a lot to control the price gouging. Defeat the farmers and the game will do much better, but that’s off topic. I just thought I’d show that I’m no fanboi and tell my grievances of the game I play.
For someone who doesn't play EQ for graphics and then saying how amazing the graphics are in EQ2 and it’s one of the reasons you like it sounds kind of hypocritical in my opinion.
You say the game taste is a matter of opinion, that’s where we started. My opinion was that EQ sucked because it had poor graphics. Unchanged by all the talk of EQ2, this had no place in the discussion anyway. For everything that one person loves, there is another that hates it. This is your lesson of EQ and my lesson of WoW. I guess we’ll agree to disagree.
Originally posted by jhall229 I like all the MMO's that I have played to a certain point, but I disliked the simplicity of EQ2. It is good for a beginner MMO player, but not someone who wants a challenge. I also hated how the graphics were beautiful at one point, yet the character models looked cel shaded.
I gotta say, this post baffles me. EQ2 simplicity? From level 30 on you couldn't do anything solo. I agree it isn't one of the greatest games out there (read: it sucks) but simple??? As for the graphics, man, if you turn the graphics up to maximum, it looks amazing, best looking game I have ever seen. That is if you can stand the 2 f/s. For a game that poses no challenge, WoW is it. Buy the game, play for 20 days, be at endgame level.
To all those who say SWG: As the game is now, I totally agree. How it was before the jedi? It was the best released MMO to date. The crafting was amazing! Having your own vendors! Your own towns, politics, decorating your own homes! Come on!!!!! The combat was a wee bit easy (read: simple) when I could solo 12 rancor at a time, I knew we had a problem. What they should have done, was instead of nerfing every profession, they should have made the others tougher.
I haven't seen anyone mention WWII Online. Game has great premise, but are the graphics horrible! If you want to solo, this is definately not the game!!!!! It is very realistic, very. You need 5 people to operate a tank properly. Maybe I just don't like it cause I get shot every three steps in combat. I must be wearing the red away team shirt or something.
My most hated MMO would have to be Asheron's Call 2. Ok Ok it's dead now, but that game just sucked!! Three species to choose from, three professions to choose from, and loot that was species specific????? this game also was about as much fun as dipping my n@ts in cooking oil. The only thing worse than playing this game was trying to figure out why the hell I was paying for the privilage!!!!
CoH/CoV OMG!! Can you say BORING!!!! Second only to SWG in character creation you get all excited, ready to play. You get your first mission, you run half a mile, get your mission done, run back a half a mile (and who other than Americans still use miles???) get another quest, run a mile and a half, do quest, run back a mile and a half, get another quest, run two miles.... get the picture?
UO sucks. Of course I have only tried it in the post EA games era, and everything they touch turns to shite.
AO was fun... for the first 2 levels, then you realise it isn't going to get any more fun.
Horizons I was super excited to play a dragon!! Until I played one. Crafting was fun I agree, but man did everything else suck. And how is it that a dragon needed to buy scales to add to his armor? Uhm, wouldn't they be born with them?
Well as you see I have way to much free time and money to blow on these games. To tell you the truth, the best MMO I ever played, nay, the best game I have ever played (and I have been gaming for 26 years now) was WISH. It was a shame they pulled the plug. I was in beta, and it still wells up my eyes to think about the game being cancelled, over two years later.
I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies; for the hardest victory is over self. --Aristotle
Well dont ppl forget about one game... since they said SoG (the premise to DnL) is an actual game of it's own, and it's the hugest crap to ever saw the light of day...
Originally posted by khrag Horizons I was super excited to play a dragon!! Until I played one. Crafting was fun I agree, but man did everything else suck. And how is it that a dragon needed to buy scales to add to his armor? Uhm, wouldn't they be born with them?
Yeah, dragons were such a unique addition, too bad Horizons is a thrown-together mesh-mash of crap, if onyl they spent more time polishign it, the dragon class alone woulda attracted customers.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
I enjoyed all the other FF games, but this one just wasn't fun for me, nothing seemed fun, at all. I couldn't get money, I died a lot and the fighting system was... too different for me.
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The NGE, for Star Wars Galaxies is the worst video game (of any kind, or any genre) i have ever played.
This is of course excaserbated by the fact that SWG was the best game (of any kind, or any genre) i had ever played up until last November.
/cry
SWG ADDICT...clean since the NGE
- Everquest
- Everquest 2
- World of Warcraft
- Dark Ages of Camelot
- Lineage 2
- Anarchy Online
- SWG
- Horizons
The first Everquest was and so far still is the best MMO ever in my opinion, for the simple fact that it had a truly role-playing atmosphere. I probably spent more time actually roleplaying with other players in that game than I did hunting or questing. The factions, the gods and religions, the story, the complexity of the game and the maturity required of the players made for a great atmosphere for roleplaying and adventuring in an enormous world. I have yet to find another MMORPG that really made me want to actually roleplay, or care about the characters or the "world" as much.Oooops, let me get on topic!
Lineage 2 had problems with grinding, bots and I think the character creation piece was accidentally left out??? BUT the graphics in that game were so great, the characters were so attractive (where else can I make a hot, dark character with afro puffs or cornrows as a hairstyle?) that I would consider playing it again if I were assured that those 3 things had been addressed.
Horizons on the other hand, is definitely the worst. The graphics were unnattractive, I was uninspired to finish quests, the combat felt very awkward, it felt like more thought was put into designing the crafting content of the game than in the adventuring and roleplaying, and server performance was just awful. The day that it took 12 minutes for the items that I had picked up from my vault to actually materialize in my inventory was the day I finally went ahead and unsubscribed.
SWG is second and not last for me only because the character creation was AWESOME. At least I had fun making Twi'leks, in Horizons I couldn't even enjoy that much.
After a quick glance through this thread I think I've noticed no one has mentioned Mourning/Realms of Torment. Might I remind you that Mourning did in fact achieve final release status and as one of the most hyped games on this site for months I would include Mourning in the catergory of "almost major" MMOs. As such I believe Mourning is worthy of acknowledgement here.
This game promised so much to those of us who loved games like Shadowbane even with all their problems. Mourning failed to deliver in EVERY imaginable aspect, the details of which I could hardly hope to go into here. I preordered thinking I would be one of the lucky ones who was there when the amazing journey all began, and even when my white cardboard box holding the inkjet printer sticky labeled CD-R arrived I held on to hope thinking "Maybe they put so much of their resources into making the game, they had nothing left to create the discs and boxes with!". Oh what a fool I was. I booted up the game to find a whopping one other person in my starting town just before the client/server/everything crashed.
I have never in my life been lied to more completely than by the people in charge of Mourning (excepting perhaps the US government). One of the best decisions ever made by mmorpg.com was removing Mourning from their games list before it came out. If only I had listened! Even under threat of torture I will never, ever, preorder an MMO again.
What I love most about this post is that almost all of
things on it that are innovative for EQ2.... they're all in games that came out
before EQ2. I could go down the list and name a game for each one of
those... in fact I will. The points below are numbered in order from top
to bottom:
1) WoW has plenty of quests that involve killing creature A to learn more about
it and then moving to B, C, etc... all part of a story arc.
I disagree. I play tons of both games. And I can't recall a single WoW quest that got me to understand more about a creature and it's heritage and habits. Maybe I'm wrong, if so let me know. But I haven't come across one that I can remember. EQ2 has specific quests for each enemy. The orcs, ghosts, goblins, etc. You loot parts of each creature you kill and then study them to learn more. Like I said, I don't recall that anywhere in WoW.
2) AC had creatures that yelled random phrases that were unintelligible.
Lot's of games have monsters that speak gibberish. But which game do you know where you can collect notes and documents from that race, study them, and slowly learn their language? That was my point.
3) I'll give EQ2 the voiceovers.
Thanks. I think they're awesome too.
4) There's a type of guild ranking system in Linage and DaoC (maybe not to the
same degree...)
I don't think they are of the same degree. I know there are others. But I was talking about the way the guild system is handled in EQ2. There are heritage quests that people get and then you take your guild along to get advancement points. That's innovative. The guild system may be a broad category, but how it's handled is what I was referring to.
5) Just about EVERY MMO I've played has items that interact with the environment...
even CoH.... and they're pretty skimpy on the environment interactions.
Yes, I know. That's why I gave a specific example of the environment interaction in EQ2. The scrying stones. I don't know another game that has something like that. I know games have similarities. But there is innovation within those that can make a game completely different and more fun.
6) Again, every mmo has quests other than go here kill this... and EQ2 has it's
fair share of them as well. This point, as a whole, is very weak.
Yeah, you're right. Every game does have those kinds of quests. But I would bet 90% of the quests in WoW are like that compared to much less being this way in EQ2. I know they are there in EQ2, but they are considerably less. Trust me, like I said I play both games a lot.
7) AO had very elaborate houses (or apartments as they called them).
Like I said, there are games with similarities. But the way the housing is handled in EQ2 is cool. I like it better. And didn't you have to pre-order to get the housing in AO? Or was that just to make sure you had fist dibs at at house? I can't remember.
8) Combat presentation is your choice... I personally don't feel EQ2's combat
engine is any better than WoW or many other mmo's engine. The best one in
my opinion is CoH/CoV or Matrix Online (maybe the only thing I like about those
two).
All they do in WoW for combat is swing their weapons. In EQ2 when I cast a sickness spell on an enemy, he gets the sickness. He breaks out in a rash and starts coughing and hacking up flem. It's disgusting, but cool. And when I punch or kick an enemy in EQ2 they double over in pain. There's none of that in WoW. The closest thing I've seen was in Asheron's Call 2 where damage would actually show up on the creature. But the interaction as far as reacting to exactly what kind of damage they took was no where close. And it's definitely no where close in WoW.
9) The EXACT same mentor system is in CoH... and I think I can recall a
type of that system in Earth and Beyond.
You may be right. I don't know. Never played those games much. But I think it's a cool idea. So if they have the mentor system then awesome.
So yeah... this is my first post, but I was just reading over the boards, came
across this, found it so horribly wrong that I had to give my two cents.
Whew, lot's of typing. Me fingers hurt.
Seeing as how your innovations have been debunked by bigslice, I won't comment on those except to say I agree with him. For the rest, I guess I'll have to break it down even more, because you said you don't understand.
I believe you keep intentionally not understanding the graphics issue I had with EQ. It wasn't old when I bought it. I think perhaps you are digging to find out when I bought EQ. To give you a timeline, Shadowbane was still in beta and about to release. A friend told me how awesome it looked, and I figured it was the same garbage I heard about EQ. EQ was the #1 MMO on the market with little competition except from UO when I bought it, (which UO also sucked). It didn't have a contemporary graphics engine when it released. I was a FPS gamer who was accustomed to using my graphics accelerator with MOST ALL games released, with exception to EQ and UO because they were sprite based graphics. It had a contemporary price tag though, along with monthly fees. I wasn't about to sit there with my top of the line computer looking at sprites. I assumed that MMOs sucked because the two leading contenders both looked like crap. Anyone who says that either program EVER had graphics that could compete with games released in it's day would be lying. Sue me for not looking past the crappy graphics, but I saw nothing intriguing there. A HUGE crappy world, eh? You can have it. Unfortunately, I need more than just the promise of a good game. I also like to enjoy what I'm looking at. That's why I bothered putting an accelerator in my computer when I built it in the first place. It's too bad EQ1 didn't look incerdible when it released as you claim for EQ2.
Funny how things work, your precious EQ could not convince me to play it, yet I beta tested the supposed lesser program, SWG and guess what? I liked MMOs! They didn't suck after all! Maybe it was just that EQ1 had such terrible graphics, I didn't give it a proper chance. Who's fault is that? The developer I'd say. I guess they should have thought about that before selling me a non-accelerated game for full price in a day and age where practically every other game has it standard. That was a bad decision on the part of SOE. Oooops, SOE has made alot of bad decisions haven't they? My primary reason for not wanting to play EQ2 is that SOE runs it. I tasted SOE's brilliance during my time in SWG, and I didn't feel like a second helping.
I went from SWG to CoH. Another game I enjoyed for a time till I saw the redundancy. Bored, I bought WoW because I heard it was good, and Blizzard was behind it. I didn't like Diablo II because they over-did everything in that game. I wasn't sure if I'd like WoW. I never gave EQ2 a second glance on the shelf. I bought it, installed it and began to play. At first I didn't like it because the UI took a bit for me to adjust to. After I made it out of the starter town, I was good to go. I've been hooked ever since, though I have tried other games, looking for better.
So my MMO gameline is such -> UO, EQ, ------------ SWG Beta, SWG, Horizons Beta, CoH Beta, CoH, WoW, GW, CoV
You'll notice a huge gap between the time EQ released and when I went to SWG. That was the period of time I believed MMOs sucked because of the previous two programs. I had more understanding for the lame graphics of UO because it came out well before EQ. EQ had no excuse. It never should have been released with sprites. The technology was there, they just didn't use it. I hope this is all concise enough, so that you no longer fail to understand my reasoning.
Majority rules meant that when you say WoW sucks, there are legions who will disagree with you. I don't play WoW because it is currently the #1 MMO. If that were the case, I'd have played EQ1 more. WoW is in my opinion the best MMO currently on the market, and that's why I continue to play it, until something better comes along. I bought GW and CoV after WoW and found out CoV is CoH with a coat of paint and I did not like the look and feel of GW, so I'm not a WoW fanboi. I'm looking and listening, but I don't see anything better at the moment. I was unaware that so many people hated WoW. but that's cool. To each his own. Understand though, I don't want to convert anybody to WoW. You go ahead and play your EQ2.
Have a nice day.
There, my innovation "debunking" has been undebunked (I hope). lol.
And I don't play EQ for the graphics. I play it cuz it's fun. I love the character development, the number of classes, and the places to explore. But that's a matter of opinion. So, we'll toss that argument away. Hehe.
6) Again, every mmo has quests other than go here kill this... and EQ2 has it's
fair share of them as well. This point, as a whole, is very weak.
Yeah, you're right. Every game does have those kinds of quests. But I would bet 90% of the quests in WoW are like that compared to much less being this way in EQ2. I know they are there in EQ2, but they are considerably less. Trust me, like I said I play both games a lot.
Whew, lot's of typing. Me fingers hurt.
I would have to agree. WoW has TONS more get X, and Y, and Z quests than EQ2. There are a lot of different kinds of quests in EQ2 to the point that you can tell they tried to steer away from those types of quests. Thank God.
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after spending about an hour reading this (could have created a char in wow and be lvl 20 by now, lol), thought i would add my peneth worth.
I was brought up on EQ, my first mmo, i loved it, played it for 3 years. Had many good friends and some that became RL friends. Game is awsome, huge in story, development, areas to explore etc etc. I think at that time, the only thing that let it down was lack of quests, as most of the time was spent grinding to your next lvl. But nothing else was close to it so it was part of the fun. Then EQ2 hit the shelves and the population really dropped. I remember waiting in line at some areas for hours to get my chance at a respawn (like WOWs BGS and raids today really). But again, the group would go off and hunt for fun, loot or spend time on craft skills, especially as you could craft in anything you wanted and all benefited self and others.
I finally submitted to EQ2, i lasted about a month. Couldnt stick it for some reason. Didnt like the group only kill mobs idea, especially if solo. The game is graphically good, spells are cool when cast, but you soon dont see this anymore, you get used to it. I have tried it again very recently and like some of the new changes, like easy quest finders (WOW again lol). COmmunity seemed a bit small though probabily on the wrong server. But still i found the game repetative, yes i was only low lvl, but nothing seemed to jump out at me and make me say "cool, like it".
Then came WOW. Pretty, easy, funny............................. sure there was soemthing else......................nope thats about it. I enjoyed getting my warrior up to lvl 60, which didnt take long at all. But then the game died. I hate wasting my free time away from work waiting in queues to log on, raid or BG. I could save my time altogether and not play a game, could read or study things like that but hey we all need some relaxation. WoW is a pick up and play when you want type of game, it sppon feeds you through the whol game from q to q and lvl to lv with the occasional grind for money or that difficult lvl 19-20, 29-30 bits. It is good in its own right, but i think its very short lifed. Expansions - read the pre-reports but game will not change much to keep me interested i think.
Tried EVE - sorry, i do need to work too, plus i like to see my char, not a space ship. Couldnt get into it. Got fed up just seeing space things, i like a bit more scenery and stuff.
COH - ok for about 3 hours then really lost it, didnt like the structure of the game, too repetative, not enough other material to keep me ammused. Same things to do but different monsters etc.
COV- as COH
Rose - i think i am too old for that one lol, bouncing jelly beans and stuff.
Guild wars- ok, got good alround content, good graphics, plenty to do, nice PVP, and no monthly cost. Again, i thought it could have more for your own development potential.
DAoC - as guild wars, but not free. Didnt get too far though, didnt like some aspect of the game just couldnt get into it.
I think what i am trying to say out of all this is that all games have good and bad points. What i like, others wont. Wow took off because its fairly easy to get on with, EQ took off because it was leading edge, and had soooooo much to do.The others used the same ideas but with different graphics and spells etc. I think my worst are COH, COV and Rose, they just lacked sole for me.
The one game i would play again, if more people were on it would be EQ, that was the daddy of games for content and structure. But you could sign your life away for a long time.
Looking at this i wonder how i find time to work and socialise. But must go back to work, more MMOs coming out soon to try
Least favorite. World of Warcraft.
Never played it, never will. I hear nothing but complaints, but then again it has like 5,000,000 people. What a double-edged sword.
My 2nd least favorite is Lineage 2.
My Least Favorite - RF Online - The grind in FF:XI is more fun then that heap. Bad sound. Not that you could read the text, but crappy quest system. I like games with a lot of adventure to them. This is basicly a 3d Maple Story with PvP Wars.
Second Least - D&D Online - Would be great if it was free to play like GW, but have to pay just kills the whole game!
Which FF Character Are You?
Currently Playing: WoW, Guild Wars, DDO
Have Played: FFXI, EVE, CoH/CoV, Linage2, LotRO: Alpha - Open Beta
Awaiting: WAR, WAR40K
NON-MMO Playing: Jade Empire
i have changed my opinion ...
it used to be SWG ...
but now my least favorite is Vanguard: saga of heros .. for selling out to SOE ... me and many like me planned to go to VOH to escape SOE and forget about our horrible past experiences with em ...
and now BRAD & company sell out ... yet again (eq1 anyone?)
SWG... many crushed expectations from this release.
Lineage II...Ranks right up there with Pimpwars.
Any and all Instanced games current and future...are the hands down losers IMHO.
R
I usually get sick of a MMORPG pretty quick, but I try to look at the good sides to them.
CoH/CoV - Repetitive and bland, but had good char creation, leap power was entertaining (how sad is that?) and liked the radio contact. Whole time playing it was thinking that the game would be so much better as a single player action game. Probably not the impression you should be giving to your fanbase.
Motor City Online - Driving a dirt track oval by yourself to get money. Was there anything else to the game? Boring to everyone I convinced to try it. But at least they were trying something different then "like eq but..." and it gave me access to beta test that cool Mechwarrior inspired game before it was cancelled.
Shadowbane - PvE is boring, but wait till you get to the end for the PvP. Graphics suck and area is uninteresting, but wait till you get to the end for the PvP. Get to the end for PvP and find it as broken and dull as everything else. But if nothing else has a good backstory on the website that had no bearing whatsoever on the game and a player base that desperately wanted it to work.
All Asian MMORPGs - They're all the same game anyways. Grind away. And why does everyone look the same? Thought South Korea was a democracy, sounds more like an ideology of your northern communist neighbors. But I guess it appeals to the audience.
DDO - I just don't understand how it is possible. How do you get handed, what, 3 decades of story and rule building, 1000s of paperback novels, countless computer RPGs that frequently won awards for best rpg and come up with a bland instanced dungeon crawl with no purpose? Looks nice if nothing else. Wouldn't be TOO bad without the fee like Guild Wars.
Which brings me to the worst:
SWG - I didn't try it in any previous version so I have no "they ruined it" history. Absolutely every aspect of this game is not only bad and bug-ridden in a online game sense, but in gaming over all. Cookie cutter classes, bland empty environment with ghost towns everywhere, can't change anything storywise but watch the all jedi parade, space fighting is repetitive and dull compared to single player games which date back to Wing Commander, quests are all the same damn thing over and over, no point to advance (why save money, they just give you what you need most of the time), brainless ground fighting, and a player base that was either begging you to join their guild or wanting a duel and calling you a fag the whole time. This is without a doubt the worst online game ever, and I remember back to the days of L.O.R.D.
EVERY SINGLE PART OF THIS GAME HAS BEEN DONE VASTLY BETTER IN OTHER GAMES.
1 - Lineage 2
No character customization to speak off, griefers, gankers, pointless grind
2 - CoV/CoH
Great character customization, boring and extremely repetitive content
Development-wise
1 - Star Wars: Galaxies
How on earth is it possible to mess up a game based on Star Wars? Speechless...
No Balance, no galactic civil war, too many jedi, time line issues, many many many bugs, just plain terrible and incompetent Devs
2 - Dungeons and Dragons Online
How on earth...well you know the rest
I disagree. I've read reviews and previews for the game prior to and post release, and while EQ2 is newer, it's still EQ. EQ2 has taken EQ and built upon it, as have all developers with their programs. That gives EQ the honors but not EQ2. I'm glad that there's competition, because if I don't like EQ2, someone may have made a similar game that I will enjoy. As far as honors for the MMO genre, that goes to UO. In my opinion, your innovation statements aren't valid simply because innovation means to introduce something new, and not more of this and less of that, or similar to but slightly different than another previous product, or an improved version of existing innovation. Innovation means never seen before. Your game has aspects that existed before it's time and the developers chose to grace their product with their version of something that already existed. That’s not innovation buddy.
I've seen EQ2 in action and I didn't care for it enough to want to build a character. Subsequently the EQ2 friend I have felt the same way about WoW. I think the games have much to offer, but are not really the same. I think EQ2 is an MMO for a more casual gamer whereas WoW is for more serious MMO players. Hence WoW is missing all the fluff you are lauding as innovations. The core game play however is an entirely different matter. I think that's where Blizzard chose to concentrate instead of making characters vomit in their animations. Nothing you told me of innovation interested me because it is all fluff.
I've always been in the Horde, (I don't like the Alliance characters.) I'm also in a raiding guild. I find the fights challenging. It's not about the loot, it's about getting into the deep dark and dangerous parts of the world and coming out with Nefarius's head! I enjoy being challenged. That with a group of like minded friends is great. I love the PvP aspect of WoW, though I am not on a PvP server. By and large, WoW I would not change a thing, except the farming and the economy. More controls are needed because there’s just too much madness there. Make NPCs with major mana pots and such that actually give me the choice to buy from the auction house, or the NPC. That would do a lot to control the price gouging. Defeat the farmers and the game will do much better, but that’s off topic. I just thought I’d show that I’m no fanboi and tell my grievances of the game I play.
For someone who doesn't play EQ for graphics and then saying how amazing the graphics are in EQ2 and it’s one of the reasons you like it sounds kind of hypocritical in my opinion.
You say the game taste is a matter of opinion, that’s where we started. My opinion was that EQ sucked because it had poor graphics. Unchanged by all the talk of EQ2, this had no place in the discussion anyway. For everything that one person loves, there is another that hates it. This is your lesson of EQ and my lesson of WoW. I guess we’ll agree to disagree.
To all those who say SWG: As the game is now, I totally agree. How it was before the jedi? It was the best released MMO to date. The crafting was amazing! Having your own vendors! Your own towns, politics, decorating your own homes! Come on!!!!! The combat was a wee bit easy (read: simple) when I could solo 12 rancor at a time, I knew we had a problem. What they should have done, was instead of nerfing every profession, they should have made the others tougher.
I haven't seen anyone mention WWII Online. Game has great premise, but are the graphics horrible! If you want to solo, this is definately not the game!!!!! It is very realistic, very. You need 5 people to operate a tank properly. Maybe I just don't like it cause I get shot every three steps in combat. I must be wearing the red away team shirt or something.
My most hated MMO would have to be Asheron's Call 2. Ok Ok it's dead now, but that game just sucked!! Three species to choose from, three professions to choose from, and loot that was species specific????? this game also was about as much fun as dipping my n@ts in cooking oil. The only thing worse than playing this game was trying to figure out why the hell I was paying for the privilage!!!!
CoH/CoV OMG!! Can you say BORING!!!! Second only to SWG in character creation you get all excited, ready to play. You get your first mission, you run half a mile, get your mission done, run back a half a mile (and who other than Americans still use miles???) get another quest, run a mile and a half, do quest, run back a mile and a half, get another quest, run two miles.... get the picture?
UO sucks. Of course I have only tried it in the post EA games era, and everything they touch turns to shite.
AO was fun... for the first 2 levels, then you realise it isn't going to get any more fun.
Horizons I was super excited to play a dragon!! Until I played one. Crafting was fun I agree, but man did everything else suck. And how is it that a dragon needed to buy scales to add to his armor? Uhm, wouldn't they be born with them?
Well as you see I have way to much free time and money to blow on these games. To tell you the truth, the best MMO I ever played, nay, the best game I have ever played (and I have been gaming for 26 years now) was WISH. It was a shame they pulled the plug. I was in beta, and it still wells up my eyes to think about the game being cancelled, over two years later.
I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies; for the hardest victory is over self.
--Aristotle
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
Why:
I enjoyed all the other FF games, but this one just wasn't fun for me, nothing seemed fun, at all. I couldn't get money, I died a lot and the fighting system was... too different for me.