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Smedley Admits that Lucas Arts wanted the NGE... not SOE

AikesAikes Member Posts: 292

He also replies about to the Shadows In Motion article that shows almost no one playing these days.

Amazing that Smedley can speak about it, CBS can speak about it, but if we speak about it the thread is deleted eh?

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/21/tech/gamecore/main1335511.shtml

"SWG was a world, now it's just a game" -adamrk-

"When the game was good, you didn't have to ask where the population was, because it was everywhere. When the game was good you didn't have to ask which server had population, because they all did. When the game was good you didn't have to beg friends to give it a try, because they were already playing. " - Salty Pete

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Comments

  • AikesAikes Member Posts: 292

    Here is the article Smedley and CBS are talking about.

     

    http://www.shadowsinmotion.com/swg-server-population-revealed/

     

    "SWG was a world, now it's just a game" -adamrk-

    "When the game was good, you didn't have to ask where the population was, because it was everywhere. When the game was good you didn't have to ask which server had population, because they all did. When the game was good you didn't have to beg friends to give it a try, because they were already playing. " - Salty Pete

  • freebirdpatfreebirdpat Member Posts: 568

    Old news and welcome to last week.

  • ShaydeShayde Member Posts: 4,529

    They wanted improvements, not exactly the nge.

    Smed stated in another article that $OE came up with the design, he fell in love with it, Torres fell in love with it, and boom.

    Shayde - SWG (dead)
    Proud member of the Cabal.
    image

    imageimage
    It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled :( - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me.
    I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
    09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

  • AikesAikes Member Posts: 292



    Originally posted by freebirdpat

    Old news and welcome to last week.



    naaaa, really????

     

    My original post on this subject was deleted... over a week ago. since CBS is covering it and it has been reposted a few times I figured I would repost the info.

    Just wanted to see if it would get deleted again... but thanks for your troll/flame/ keyboard outburst of condescending rhetoric.

    "SWG was a world, now it's just a game" -adamrk-

    "When the game was good, you didn't have to ask where the population was, because it was everywhere. When the game was good you didn't have to ask which server had population, because they all did. When the game was good you didn't have to beg friends to give it a try, because they were already playing. " - Salty Pete

  • AikesAikes Member Posts: 292



    Originally posted by Shayde

    They wanted improvements, not exactly the nge.
    Smed stated in another article that $OE came up with the design, he fell in love with it, Torres fell in love with it, and boom.


    Wouldnt be the first time Smedley fed the public and reporters a line of shit.

    "SWG was a world, now it's just a game" -adamrk-

    "When the game was good, you didn't have to ask where the population was, because it was everywhere. When the game was good you didn't have to ask which server had population, because they all did. When the game was good you didn't have to beg friends to give it a try, because they were already playing. " - Salty Pete

  • ArvadArvad Member Posts: 107
    From Smedley's "An Open letter to the SWG community:

     

     

    Many of you ask "Why did you have to make such a sweeping change rather than just fixing the things that were wrong?" - well, to put it bluntly - everyone had different ideas of what we needed to fix. Trying to balance 34 professions, and add compelling content to make everyone happy proved to be a very large challenge. Many design decisions made early on in the game's creation were boxing the team in to the point that we were never going to be able to really make this game rise to the level it needs to as both a great experience AND as a business.  We have consistently kept the SWG team as one of the largest teams within SOE (around 70 people). Even with a team that size getting new content done along with maintaining the live game, along with developing new systems for SWG just proved to be tougher than it should have been. We've got a lot of experience doing MMO's, and SWG has always proven to be the game that was the toughest for us to make changes to. So, along with our partners at LucasArts we did a very lengthy look at just what the fundamental issues with SWG were. We spoke to many of you, read the forums and conducted numerous focus group tests with both existing players, people who have played MMO's before (but not SWG) and people that haven't ever tried MMO's before.

     

    The consistent feedback we recieved through this research showed us where the problems were. Here are the top 3 issues:

     

    1) Difficult to get into - too complicated. People didn't understand what all the professions were, and the interface was just plain hard.

    2) Combat wasn't exciting enough

    3) Game wasn't "Star Warsy" enough. The professions issue also showed itself here.
     

     

    This sounds like Mr. Smedley was calling the shots and LA was rubber stamping them.  I have to think SOE was driving the changes in order to reduce their costs. Everything we have seen from LA shows they are clueless about what is really going on with the game and function more like bean counters than actively making decisions.
  • DuraheLLDuraheLL Member Posts: 2,951

    ****ing bull**** *** idiots... were losing subscribers huh? Any idea WHY!? Because the game was like the most unpolished game EVER! Try smoothing the game and it would have been the best one ever.

    You dont have to balance 34 professions, but doing so it would seem a far more easy project than destroying the game. Morons!

    I cant believe they are such ***wipes... I mean, if they feared going out of business for losing people then what the heck did they expect from revamping the entire game? Unbelievable how this company handles this situation, STOP LYING dammit! You are so transparent! I HATE YOU!

    ... before I go on too hard, I will now breathe *Breathes*, Ok, so I just want my old game back, but polished. The game had the biggest diamond, but it never got polished to be of any worth...

    image
    $OE lies list
    http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
    "
    And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "

  • SendenSenden Member UncommonPosts: 601



    Originally posted by Arvad

    From Smedley's "An Open letter to the SWG community:
     
     

    Many of you ask "Why did you have to make such a sweeping change rather than just fixing the things that were wrong?" - well, to put it bluntly - everyone had different ideas of what we needed to fix. Trying to balance 34 professions, and add compelling content to make everyone happy proved to be a very large challenge. Many design decisions made early on in the game's creation were boxing the team in to the point that we were never going to be able to really make this game rise to the level it needs to as both a great experience AND as a business.  We have consistently kept the SWG team as one of the largest teams within SOE (around 70 people). Even with a team that size getting new content done along with maintaining the live game, along with developing new systems for SWG just proved to be tougher than it should have been. We've got a lot of experience doing MMO's, and SWG has always proven to be the game that was the toughest for us to make changes to. So, along with our partners at LucasArts we did a very lengthy look at just what the fundamental issues with SWG were. We spoke to many of you, read the forums and conducted numerous focus group tests with both existing players, people who have played MMO's before (but not SWG) and people that haven't ever tried MMO's before.
     
    The consistent feedback we recieved through this research showed us where the problems were. Here are the top 3 issues:
     
    1) Difficult to get into - too complicated. People didn't understand what all the professions were, and the interface was just plain hard.
    2) Combat wasn't exciting enough
    3) Game wasn't "Star Warsy" enough. The professions issue also showed itself here.
     

     

    This sounds like Mr. Smedley was calling the shots and LA was rubber stamping them.  I have to think SOE was driving the changes in order to reduce their costs. Everything we have seen from LA shows they are clueless about what is really going on with the game and function more like bean counters than actively making decisions.



    If that open letter tells us anything (yeah it was a long time ago but thankfully, i wasn't around for the NGE, then it says that what $OE/LA listend to, was the people who never played SWG before and the people who had played it, were woefully dismissed as clueless idiots.
  • TorchwoodTorchwood Member Posts: 76

    Whoever made the final call was trying to do the right thing.  They wanted to get more people playing.  Its simple, they made a bad choice.  The problem now is:

     

    Even if they rollback to precu, or precurb, whatever its called.  Can they be trusted.  Sweeping changes instead of bug fixes seems to be their answer.  Why fix some bugs when we can rebuild the game?  Dear lord. 

    Even the CU was misleading, and not what should have happened.  The orig game needed work.  Not a revamp.  At this point any choice they make will be suspect. 

    ruat caelum

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by Shayde
    They wanted improvements, not exactly the nge.Smed stated in another article that $OE came up with the design, he fell in love with it, Torres fell in love with it, and boom.

    Umm no, it has already been previously stated that a member of LEC acted in atleast a consultant role on the NGE. I normally agree with you Shayde but you are continually trying to dodge facts you don't like to hear.

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • ShaydeShayde Member Posts: 4,529


    Originally posted by Fadeus
    Originally posted by Shayde
    They wanted improvements, not exactly the nge.Smed stated in another article that $OE came up with the design, he fell in love with it, Torres fell in love with it, and boom.

    Umm no, it has already been previously stated that a member of LEC acted in atleast a consultant role on the NGE. I normally agree with you Shayde but you are continually trying to dodge facts you don't like to hear.


    Torres is from LA. HE is the "consultant".

    Smed stated THEIR people created the nge. Smed liked it.. showed it to Torres and they liked it. LA liked it and together they wanted it to move foreward. Anyone who thinks LA had anything to do with the design is giving them more credit than they deserve. $OE people did the design and coding.. yes LA execs loved it and wanted it, but they didn't code line one.

    Yes.. I believe that pushing fourth the nge was 50/50 LA and $OE's fault. Its shoddy coding is all $OE. Its deceptive marketing is all LA.

    But if $OE didn't screw it up so bad for 2 years, we'd have never been there.

    What fact am I ignoring?

    Shayde - SWG (dead)
    Proud member of the Cabal.
    image

    imageimage
    It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled :( - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me.
    I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
    09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by Shayde
    Originally posted by Fadeus
    Originally posted by Shayde
    They wanted improvements, not exactly the nge.Smed stated in another article that $OE came up with the design, he fell in love with it, Torres fell in love with it, and boom.

    Umm no, it has already been previously stated that a member of LEC acted in atleast a consultant role on the NGE. I normally agree with you Shayde but you are continually trying to dodge facts you don't like to hear.


    Torres is from LA. HE is the "consultant".

    Smed stated THEIR people created the nge. Smed liked it.. showed it to Torres and they liked it. LA liked it and together they wanted it to move foreward. Anyone who thinks LA had anything to do with the design is giving them more credit than they deserve. $OE people did the design and coding.. yes LA execs loved it and wanted it, but they didn't code line one.

    Yes.. I believe that pushing fourth the nge was 50/50 LA and $OE's fault. Its shoddy coding is all $OE. Its deceptive marketing is all LA.

    But if $OE didn't screw it up so bad for 2 years, we'd have never been there.

    What fact am I ignoring?



    Incorrect, it was not Torres named. Torres is a hell of alot more then a consultant. It was a LEC marketting geek that was named. OFCOURSE he stated THEY created the NGE, they are the development house. You think LEC didn't have a clue what it was until it was unleashed? That is unbeleivable thinking. Torres knew EXACTLY what was going out the door and another from LEC had his hands directly in the conceptual design of it.

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • AikesAikes Member Posts: 292

    Lucas Arts never released the license to the name or characters.

     

    Lucas Arts had so much control over the game in every aspect of game and story line that SOE had to okay everything with them.

     

    Lucas Arts is only interested in attaining the most return for their license, and you dont count.

     

    Hollywood should not be influencing gaming and should have nothing to do with programming. Their declining movie revenue and attitude toward shoddy re-run versions of an original to pull in fast cash does not work here.

     

    Oh, yea I know something about how Hollywood works. It just so happens I have managed a Props and Special Effects business for 7 years. You are all sheep to be bled, nothing you see on TV is real, and if Hollywood gets involved, trust no one.

    "SWG was a world, now it's just a game" -adamrk-

    "When the game was good, you didn't have to ask where the population was, because it was everywhere. When the game was good you didn't have to ask which server had population, because they all did. When the game was good you didn't have to beg friends to give it a try, because they were already playing. " - Salty Pete

  • ShaydeShayde Member Posts: 4,529


    Originally posted by Fadeus
    Incorrect, it was not Torres named. Torres is a hell of alot more then a consultant. It was a LEC marketting geek that was named. OFCOURSE he stated THEY created the NGE, they are the development house. You think LEC didn't have a clue what it was until it was unleashed? That is unbeleivable thinking. Torres knew EXACTLY what was going out the door and another from LEC had his hands directly in the conceptual design of it.

    Then I don't get what you are tryin to say. $OE created the nge, Smed liked it, showed it to LA, THEY liked it too and they both pushed it foreward.

    Where are we disagreeing here? Torres stated he liked it in an interview. If you're splitting hairs about how many LA employees liked it or something, what's the point in that?

    I totally believe that LA was in favor of the nge. They didn't create it, but they were on board with pushing it.

    Shayde - SWG (dead)
    Proud member of the Cabal.
    image

    imageimage
    It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled :( - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me.
    I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
    09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by Shayde
    Originally posted by Fadeus
    Incorrect, it was not Torres named. Torres is a hell of alot more then a consultant. It was a LEC marketting geek that was named. OFCOURSE he stated THEY created the NGE, they are the development house. You think LEC didn't have a clue what it was until it was unleashed? That is unbeleivable thinking. Torres knew EXACTLY what was going out the door and another from LEC had his hands directly in the conceptual design of it.

    Then I don't get what you are tryin to say. $OE created the nge, Smed liked it, showed it to LA, THEY liked it too and they both pushed it foreward.

    Where are we disagreeing here? Torres stated he liked it in an interview. If you're splitting hairs about how many LA employees liked it or something, what's the point in that?

    I totally believe that LA was in favor of the nge. They didn't create it, but they were on board with pushing it.


    We disagree in the fact that I say LEC had a direct hand in the design of it, just not the codework of it. I beleive per public statements that the playstyle was as much LEC's doing as it was SOE's. And even if it didn't you seem to want to blame SOE for LEC being a bunch of idiots with how they manage SWG.

    The end result is LEC is to blame. They had the authority, they hold the title, it's THEIR fault for either telling SOE to do what they did or allowing it.

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • duncan_922duncan_922 Member Posts: 1,670

    Do you place any blame at all on SOE, Fadeus? 

     

    I wonder the same for Obraik and Jodokai.

    SOE knows what you like... You don't!
    And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!

  • SpathotanSpathotan Member Posts: 3,928

    You guys really like beating dead horses. Everything that SoE wants and does with swg has to go through LA 1st, therefore one holds the same amount of blame as the other, end of story. What is the confusion here? Drop the topic and think of something else to bitch about.

    "There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
    — Boba Fett

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by duncan_922
    Do you place any blame at all on SOE, Fadeus?

    I wonder the same for Obraik and Jodokai.

    Blame? Not at all. However that is only because I consider them incompetent to maintain a product anymore. EQ II is proof they can still put together a badass production team, but once it's releases its a free for all.

    When it comes to SWG however all blame falls too LEC, it's their product and they are the ones that should be correcting it. They aren't however and that is because all this BS is their lame idea because they have zero clue about managing an MMO. LEC is just suits now, no hands dirty programmers and gamers. That is why all their current products lack visual consistency and quality.

    LEC doesn't have to deal with the customers unless they choose too. They can make any bad decision they want and just sit back and let SOE take the pounding for it. Sounds all win for them, if it fails SOE will take the blame while they "resurrect" swg and save it, bringing back all the enraged fans of it that were drove off by SOE in their own view.

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by Spathotan
    You guys really like beating dead horses. Everything that SoE wants and does with swg has to go through LA 1st, therefore one holds the same amount of blame as the other, end of story. What is the confusion here? Drop the topic and think of something else to bitch about.

    No not end of story nor is your flawed logic of who is to blame. You blame the leadership and expect them to fix the problem. You don't sit and cut the leadership slack, you nail them to the wall and make THEM fix the problem wherever it be.

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • SpathotanSpathotan Member Posts: 3,928

    Sitting here bitching about it wont help, prove, or solve anything. Its already fact that SoE dosent give a shit about the players of SWG, so we are all just wasting energy thinking and typing this garbage. SoE wins at fucking up, we lose because we continue to pay it mind and give them attention 24/7. The game wont change back to how we liked it, ever.

    "There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
    — Boba Fett

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by Spathotan
    Sitting here bitching about it wont help, prove, or solve anything. Its already fact that SoE dosent give a shit about the players of SWG, so we are all just wasting energy thinking and typing this garbage. SoE wins at fucking up, we lose because we continue to pay it mind and give them attention 24/7. The game wont change back to how we liked it, ever.

    I don't see anyone bitching about anything other then you with your complaints and profanity. The rest of us the last time I checked were having a discussion about it. Duncan asked me a legitamite questions and I felt I should answer it.

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • duncan_922duncan_922 Member Posts: 1,670



    Originally posted by Spathotan

    You guys really like beating dead horses. Everything that SoE wants and does with swg has to go through LA 1st, therefore one holds the same amount of blame as the other, end of story. What is the confusion here? Drop the topic and think of something else to bitch about.


    Read the second line of my sig... 

    SOE knows what you like... You don't!
    And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!

  • duncan_922duncan_922 Member Posts: 1,670



    Originally posted by Fadeus




    Originally posted by duncan_922
    Do you place any blame at all on SOE, Fadeus?

    I wonder the same for Obraik and Jodokai.


    Blame? Not at all. However that is only because I consider them incompetent to maintain a product anymore. EQ II is proof they can still put together a badass production team, but once it's releases its a free for all.

    When it comes to SWG however all blame falls too LEC, it's their product and they are the ones that should be correcting it. They aren't however and that is because all this BS is their lame idea because they have zero clue about managing an MMO. LEC is just suits now, no hands dirty programmers and gamers. That is why all their current products lack visual consistency and quality.

    LEC doesn't have to deal with the customers unless they choose too. They can make any bad decision they want and just sit back and let SOE take the pounding for it. Sounds all win for them, if it fails SOE will take the blame while they "resurrect" swg and save it, bringing back all the enraged fans of it that were drove off by SOE in their own view.


    Good points Fadeus,

    However, don't you feel like the same things can be said about SOE?  I mean, EQ came from Verant, EQ2 was built from the EQ model, and from the looks of things, it's not doing too well.  I don't think we need to go into SWG and MxO.  PlanetSide is barely worth mentioning...  So what's really there?  How have they proven to you that they can be a badass production team?  From my point of view, their production values are "lackluster" to put it mildly.

    SOE knows what you like... You don't!
    And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by duncan_922
    Originally posted by Fadeus Originally posted by duncan_922Do you place any blame at all on SOE, Fadeus? I wonder the same for Obraik and Jodokai.Blame? Not at all. However that is only because I consider them incompetent to maintain a product anymore. EQ II is proof they can still put together a badass production team, but once it's releases its a free for all.
    When it comes to SWG however all blame falls too LEC, it's their product and they are the ones that should be correcting it. They aren't however and that is because all this BS is their lame idea because they have zero clue about managing an MMO. LEC is just suits now, no hands dirty programmers and gamers. That is why all their current products lack visual consistency and quality.
    LEC doesn't have to deal with the customers unless they choose too. They can make any bad decision they want and just sit back and let SOE take the pounding for it. Sounds all win for them, if it fails SOE will take the blame while they "resurrect" swg and save it, bringing back all the enraged fans of it that were drove off by SOE in their own view.
    Good points Fadeus,
    However, don't you feel like the same things can be said about SOE? I mean, EQ came from Verant, EQ2 was built from the EQ model, and from the looks of things, it's not doing too well. I don't think we need to go into SWG and MxO. PlanetSide is barely worth mentioning... So what's really there? How have they proven to you that they can be a badass production team? From my point of view, their production values are "lackluster" to put it mildly.

    EQII was absolutely brilliant too me at launch. They have since then however torn it down peice by peice after letting go most of the production team for a lower quality maintenance team. I don't care about how popular it is, it was an awesome game when it was released. You could see the details put into it on every level. You could see a vision for the game. Now everyone just waits to see what new feature they are going to get next in the patch messages. The game goes day by day.

    Verrant is SOE just like Red Eye Entertainment was. Just different names for the same development company. Yes some of the main people for Verrant left and went on to other projects but Verrant was Smedley's baby and he still runs it.

    I can't speak about Planetside since I have never played it. But once again I think you will find most the complaints by the players when it comes to their maintenance and handling of the game post release.

    MxO was handed to SOE, so I don't feel that should even be in the discussion.

    Perhaps you are confusing production with the post release development? I am strictly speaking original game design up TO release. Not how they handle it after. It seems to be the after part that they just can't get their act together on too me.

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • ShaydeShayde Member Posts: 4,529

    Then EQ2 must have been a better game at launch, because it sure sucked in july.

    Shayde - SWG (dead)
    Proud member of the Cabal.
    image

    imageimage
    It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled :( - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me.
    I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
    09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

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