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MMORPG.COM News: Debate: Major IPs and MMORPGs

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  • EBlackbladeEBlackblade Member UncommonPosts: 34

    I am a major fan of IP releases. For example, I love Star Trek and have since I was a kid, Therefore I am obviously pumped about the upcoming game. I am glad that PE is taking their time, but I know Paramount and Rick Berman would not let what George Lucas let happen to SWG happen to Star Trek. I played SWG it was fun but it lacked substance, they could have solved 99.99% of their problems with gamers not liking the game and set it in a different era. (Or my favortie just remove Jedi altogether)

    IP's are a great source for people who love a product to get into it. Harry Potter was mentioned, now I will not be the majority here but I for one would love to play a Harry Potter online game. In fact I like the series so much me and my wife made a D20 Pen and paper game of it. Theres tons of information in the books about the world and its history. Rowling did such an amazing job melding it with our own world that anything in our world that happens could very well be related to Magic.

    Turbine may be getting alot of angry replies about D&D Stormreach, I happen to like the game. I played D&D 14 years. People who dont like the 3.5 Rulset will come around... they always do because their product is obsolete. As far as people not liking the game...no problem get together roll some dice and have fun. For people like me and a couple of my friends who DM all the time it offers us the oppurtunity to actually play a character an use all the knowledge we have obtained over the years. It also offers the oppurtunity to get a younger generation into such a great game...because lets face it without D&D and the way it made people use their imaginations..alot of the IP's and MMORPGS we have now wouldnt exist. Tolkien may have made Elves but Gygax made them what they are today.

    I also think Chronicles of Narnia would make a great online game...I mean logging out would be like leaving the world. Once again people may not agree with me on this...people are going to have to accept that in the next 20 years games as we know them will not exist and a new era of entertainement will be upon us. I look forward to the day when instead of reading a book you can become the character in a Star Trek holodeckesque (<---made up word) enviroment.

    All in all I think IP's are the next phase of game evolution...Look how far we have come since Pong or Mario Bros. I mean I used to think Dragon Warrior IV was the greatest NES game ever...Then the SNES,SEGA,Sega CD, and the N64 they all came.  Then the era of Cd's hit the industry with the ground breaking Playstation. Then UO and a few others came out and the era of online gaming started to begin. Now look how far we have come, login to UO and look at the graphics and imagine people like me spent 11 hours or more a day playing and thought it was great. So I see IP's as a natural step in the right direction.

    -Curtis Schrum

    College Student in Computer Graphics Engineering.

  • anarchyartanarchyart Member Posts: 5,378

    I for one liked this debate topic. It was a little more obscure and less likely for dramatic polarization, as instancing seems to be almost like the abortion topic for how it separates us as gamers.

    I do love major movie or book franchises being made into MMORPG's, but it is a double edged sword. It's sad that they are guaranteed to sell X number of boxes, as if the game is lacking, I believe a development house should lose money. But they almost are guaranteed to make money off a Lord of the Rings franchise, and even Star Wars Galaxies with all the criticism it has garnered, has been profitable for it's developers and procurers.

    Thus the double edge of the sword: if the game is lacking in any way, it will draw the severe ire of it's die hard and sometimes life long fans and be doomed to incredulity, whereas if it were not a large name franchise it might be looked upon as a great success.

    Such is the nature of our genre. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.But if you're going to put out a game with a huge franchise name such as Dungeons and Dragons or Lord of the Rings, you better make certain that you have done everything you can to ensure that it at least somewhat lives up to the expectations of it's fans, or else you may sully the name of your very company for it's entire existence.

    image
  • BissrokBissrok Member Posts: 1,002

    I think IPs are easier to get into. SWG, for example. You know all the lore, the characters, weapons, species, planets, factions, etc. Any of these new games... I dunno, maybe it's just the genre, but I could care less about the Elven king Tom'kofnin who slayed Xzzorr Kongan, son of Xddorr, using the crystal of the seventh tree hermit. I really got into The Matrix Online, too. It was familiar. I like the story. It was fun just to be a part of it.

  • Distortion0Distortion0 Member Posts: 668

    The two debaters completely missed the point this time but the first few user posts hit it dead on. IP MMOs don't flop because people expect too much from the movie, they flop because the movie becomes a crutch to the game. I don't care if tack 'Star Wars' 'LOTR' 'D&D', hell even 'Johnny the Homicidal Maniac' on your game, if it's not fun then it's not fun. You're there to make a game ust because you have so brand name backing you doesn't give you an exuse to slack off.

    I've never played Warcraft and yet I enjoy WoW. That's how an IP should be! 

  • axlezeroaxlezero Member Posts: 29

    I voted no, and its simply because I want something new.  If you were to base a game off a movie, and say its 200 years in the future and all this crap changed and the old hero's are dead, then yes I can see making it an mmo.

    IMHO if a company has to rely on a name to sell their game, they are in trouble to begin with.  If you can't create a new and innovative story, and allow that lore to grow with the game, you are essentially giving your game a slow asphyxiated (sp?) death.  Might take a few years, but it won't last.

    Creating an mmo based on a game is like the story of king aurthor, how many times are they going to rewrite that damn story, If a book even mentions excailbur i run in terror.  If they are going to take the time to rewrite that dang story in their own way, why not just write a new creative and orginal idea.  Sadly enough the most successful mmo based on a story/movie is Dark Ages of Camelot *sigh*

    I like games with originality and maybe I stand alone, but thats how I feel.

     

  • quix0tequix0te Member UncommonPosts: 130

    Well, two things.
    I think that some people will buy these guys because they are fanboys and fangirls. However, this doesn't preclude GOOD MMORPGs based on IPs. There was a strong review of Toontown a week or so ago. Who would have expected the Kid-Friendly Disney MMORPG to be good?
    From a business standpoint, making MMORPGs based on big IPs is a GREAT idea. It guarantees that there will be a population waiting for your game to be released.
    And from a quality standpoint, it is a neutral component. It is no guarantee that your game will be great. It is no guarantee that your game will suck. That, as always, comes down to the intelligence of the designers.
    But at least it increases the willingness of the money guys to bankroll new MMORPGs. Particularly given that MMORPGs are not the gravy train with biscuit wheels that they were thought to be in the past.
    Almost every new MMORPG (unless it REALLY SUCKS) expands the envelope a little. So more MMORPGs= better for everyone. And big IPs allow more MMORPGs to be made.
    So I say, bring on the Barbie and General Hospital MMORPGs!! Who knows, the guys doing Barbie could find the key to making kick ass MMORPGs on a small budget, which will lead to a renaissance in online gaming for years to come!

  • PeZzyPeZzy Member UncommonPosts: 154

    The problem this discussion is attempting to address has more to do with MMO developers unable to spend the time and money on risky ventures. With or without an IP sticker, there is a serious lack of originality in MMORPG development. Thanks to the success of some big titles, we have been deluged by companies both small and large trying to get a foothold into the MMO market. What those companies will eventually learn is that there is no market for their product. Why? Because 95% are following the same old worn-out model. There are IP's out there that have original ideas which could be made into original games. Unfortunately it's so much easier to steal an old mmo model and slap on a fresh coat of paint. That's why we have been flooded with medieval-based games. It doesn't help that EA and M$ can do that to their games and software and still make a boat-load of money.

  • poser002poser002 Member Posts: 19

    Well IP's are made to bring in as many fans as they can on there name alone.  This is the reason why companys back the dev teams to make the games because there going to try to ride the IP for all it is worth.  Then it comes down to the devs to try to make a game that is good to the story and what fans are going to like.  The flip side to this is thoe that fans need to shut up more when the games come out.  The major reason why games flop is because the fans make it flop.  They start to scream they want this and that and the devs try to make the fans happy.  Sw:g was this way.  The fans wanted jedi so the devs went to work and get jedi in then fans screamed that htis is not sw.  There were never this many jedi in sw during this timeline.  I wanted to be the ownlly jedi on the server make them rare.  They they dont get jedi and scream that they are not jedi. 

    ALso the other thing with IP's is there normaly are to many hands in the pot.  U have the Company owner, u have hte IP owner, then come the devs that all are trying to do what they think is best for the game.  The IP owner says u cant use this or that we want u to use this.  The devs say well we want to do this and that.  The company owner says hury up and get this game to market we all ready droped 50 million on this title get it out there.  The devs say we need more time to finnish and after a point the company owner says tough u have 3-6 more months befor we ship what u have.  U can work on it as the game goes on.  This is what hurts most i think with IP's just to many people working with it.  After all that u got the fans that scream about this and that and the doom sayers never help. 

    Also wow is not a good IP to use for this.  It is based off game, just like final fantasy is and they both are doing good why wow has 5 million accounts they are getting big heads and not really changing the game and fans are starting to go stats show.  They are making righ tnow 70-75 million dollors a month on the game they dont want to change the game because it is making so much money.  Final fantasy on the other hand is just 250-450k users on and off over the last 5 years now.  (since it came out in japan)  Game based IP's are better then other IP's because the fans back the game company more then the title it self.  Like st lord of the rings sw they have to try to make game fit with the rules of a MMOG as game based games can take what they have from other games to make a good game that fans will like.

  • severiusseverius Member UncommonPosts: 1,516

    I was forced to vote no and in the following I hope you will see my reasoning.

    Star Wars Galaxies was created based upon one of the largest IP's that gaming could hope for, I think. Star Wars. But that is where all the problems started. First they chose the star wars that everyone was familiar with the first 3 movies. Little of the EU came to play. Empire is established. Vader and the emperor's hand have hunted down and killed off all but 2 of the jedi. Yes people bemoan that in in the EU they were supposedly in hiding. But, that is not what the direct source material says. Yoda and obi's blue ghost are talking, obi says something about Luke being their last hope, yoda as he is dying says no there is another (obviously leia as Force senstive.) There are no others. At the start there is Yoda and obi. Obi starts training luke, Obi dies. There is Yoda and Luke. There are none in hiding. There are no others.

    Whether it is the fault of lucas arts or the developers of SWG, they screwed up. They could have set the game in the Old Republic days, or they could have done it after luke had re-established the jedi academy. But no. And because of that decision SWG began its descent.

    When the game first came out it was known that there was a way to become a jedi... the beta testers had stumbled across a hidden bar that tracked every action you did including words you said in chat. But people whined about it and as is typical with sony they caved. So instead of being a hard earned prize they introduced the hologrind. This killed off a large portion of the game as no one wanted to play anymore they just wanted to master as many professions as possible in hopes of unlocking their character which could be perma-killed. Then people cried that that was too hard and they added in the village. People then cried more and the village was stripped out, 25 classes thrown out and the game was turned into somethign I wouldnt have played on my commodore 64.

    Now, well people have left in droves and most that I know of have removed everything sony related from their homes.

    Turbine has 2 IP's currently. DDO and LOTRO. As someone that was part of testing I have a feeling that DDO is going to fall flat on its face. Both because of the eberron setting and the ruleset they chose. Not to mention that they didnt even stick to the ruleset concerning eberron in the creation. The real nail in the coffin will be forced grouping and 100% instanced gameplay. Yes GW has instanced gameplay, but each instance is huge in comparison to what ddo offers, and GW doesnt charge a monthly fee.

    The other IP they have is LOTRO. The game started off as Middle Earth online which would have been a fantastic game. But as they have narrowed the game down entirely to just the incidents in the book it will feel like little more than a knock off. where you might help the fellowship or cross their path but you will never be able to take part in the real story. Had they stuck with MEO and perhaps set it in the first or second age they could have avoided those problems, seen a young gandalf rhadagast and saruman. Maybe met Gil-Galad, Tinuviel and beren. Fought against the Witch King of Angmar, Maybe even helped slap sauron around a bit when he was little more than a servant. The setting turbine (or tolkien enterprises) has decided to focus on will get some early play time but because it is the END of the third age that we witness and the start of the Age of Man the game can not go on for long. What the hell are elves gonna be doing in Middle Earth when they all have left for the western sea???

    The only IP that I see coming down the pipe as having any chance of being a success is Age of Conan. There is a wealth of source material, a huge unruly landscape and the ability (within game) to become stronger than even conan himself. There arent going to be many people stronger than Aragorn in LOTRO that much is for certain.

    Of course there is Warhammer Online comign as well. Little is known about the game as of yet, but if mythic is smart it will be everythign that DDO could have been and more. I suspect that the crowd from DDO will leave it in droves as WH:O gets closer to release.

    The thing about IP's is that they have to be handled with a great amount of care. Instead of going after the quick buck and just trying to satisfy the fans of a book or a movie they should go after the fans of the setting/world. Tolkien provided us with the Silmarillon which for all intents and purposes reads like a history book of Middle Earth. That gives a great amount of either backstory or settign within which a game could be set. Star Wars has a huge following and an extensive library where the extended universe sets the stage for any game set either before or after the incidents portrayed in the movies. By branching out and away from the movies and books you are afforded far more leeway to write your own story and for the players to write their own story as well. And thats what is important. Allowing the players to write their own story which of all the games mentioned only SWG allowed players to do, for a time (And Age of Conan promises) in order to have a long lived successful game. Look at World of Warcraft, its set after the events of the Warcraft series even though its far more of an arcade type game than an rpg it still allows for players to set themselves apart and to be the biggest and baddest on the block.

  • CeylousCeylous Member Posts: 134

    hey Elandrial everyone needs cars... not everyone needs an MMO. MMO's are entertainment go to this site for more on what im talking about....

    http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=6987

    just copy and paste it.

    image
    Is there an MMO that out there that isn't affected by Xao Ping Wang and their money grubbing macro bots?
    image
    http://wow.stratics.com/content/features/editorials/mf/
    Just say no to ingame money/mob farming.... the site says it all

  • BirdeyeBirdeye Member Posts: 13

    While I am and advid player of World of Warcraft and do enjoy playing, the biggest problem with games that are built around previous games (in this case the Warcraft sereies) is that the developer know what they want out of the game. While they do to some extent listen to the community, the game will be built as the devloper sees it. Devlopers do this for many reasons, one reason that comes to mind is that they have to make the lore to match up and at the same time not alinate the fans that have been there from the very beginning.

    On the other head when a game is built around the community itself, and by that I mean the community tells the developers what they want and the devolopers listen and implement what the community is asking for. While I understand that it is impossible for any developer to implement every single feature that the communiy asks for, but it is possible to implement the features the majority is aking for. In my opinion a game that is built around the community will alwasy be a better game in the fact the players get the game that they asked for and that the game evloves by the action of the players in and out of the game.

    So in conclusion pre-built mmos are good in the fact thet there is alredy a story and a consumer base. On the other head games built around the community is better in the fact that the game evloves by the action of the player. Both have their advanatages but I personaly perfer those that are built around the community.

  • CeylousCeylous Member Posts: 134

    oh btw sorry for double posting....

    I totally agree with severius on this one.

    Perpetual will do to STO (Star Trek Online) what the designers/marketers did to Star Wars Galaxies.

    Reason.....
    Perpetual paid a HEFTY price for the Star Trek brand name. Now how heafty that is I have no idea (need to do some research on it) but it couldnt have been cheap. Since the devs/companies put so much money into the brand name there taking a bigger gamble than they normally would if they didnt buy the brand name. I personally think that they think along these lines. (im not an economics major though) ::::01::

    We go into huge amounts of debt to bring the popular brand name to the people.

    brand name perchase + MMO development = huge debt

    Months after release we should get back more of a return sooner than if we didnt by the brand name into the first place.

    (months after release) brand name buyers + avid gamers = breaking even sooner.

    The question is: does hooking in the brand name buyer pay off the the perchase of the brand name in the first place? (if it succeeds does it happen sooner?)
    It seems to me that once an MMO breaks even after brandname perchasing and developing that they want to pull in as much money AS FAST A POSSIBLE. Personally I think that if a company breaks even then they really dont care much about there fans anymore they just want the quick buck after the initial investments. I would think they if they were smart they would still cater to the fans after breaking even but in the long run the devs/marketing people calculate how much money they could make after breaking even. If theres more money to be made by stretching the game out then they would. But considering how much it costs to upkeep servers/personnel an extended MMORPG life probably wouldnt be financially viable. It would be nice if people werent so greedy but if there were huge amounts of money to be made quickly after breaking even then I probably would fall into grabbing the money fast as well.
    (after all im still human)

    Also just found this site and ive been posting it to people i'll post it again tell me when you think of it

    http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=6987

    ty for reading


    ::::20::

    image
    Is there an MMO that out there that isn't affected by Xao Ping Wang and their money grubbing macro bots?
    image
    http://wow.stratics.com/content/features/editorials/mf/
    Just say no to ingame money/mob farming.... the site says it all

  • ValorusValorus Member Posts: 235

    I don't think the answer to this topic is really a yes do it a no it's a waste of time.  I think the real answer is, when is a company going to do it right?

    You can take just about any movie, book or even tv series and make it into a mmorpg. Even programs with limited history or lore or even one with a focused or limited story line can be made to work, but it take vision and the one thing that most companies are not willing to do and that take their time.

    SWG in my opinion has a pretty good Star Wars feel.  The graphics paint a good feel for what it would be like on any given world. The problem is the name of the game is Star Wars and until the expansion (which I didn't even bother with) not a single event took place in the stars - and without space fights it's really not a star war at all.  I don't normally defend Sony Online (I actually cannot stand the company, but thats another topic) but it's my understanding that Lucas actually "tied" their hands so they were limited right from the start. If it had been me and they said no Luke or any of the others I'd of said sorry guys I'll pass on this one. I'm sure EA would of gobbled it up.

    D&D online is not going to make it, not because they picked the newest material released, but because the game "feels... gha! Whats the word????  Wrong? I guess thats as good a word as any.  It's clunky and the combat is lacking.

    Lord of the Rings is yet to be seen, but here is a prediction - if the game doesn't "feel" big it will fail! Why? Because Peter Jackson went to great lengths to give the locations a grand feel. Huge mountain ranges! Statues hundreds of feet tall and vast forests thick with trees.  If I cannot look down from a mountain I'm climbing and see tiny trees and clouds soaring by my feet or if I goto any of the cities and don't marvel at the size as I approach it then to me it wont be Lords of the Rings.

    I think there are 2 reason why games based off of books and movies fail:  1) Whoever owns the rights to the production limits what can be in the game and how it should act. Star Wars without Luke Skywalker isn't really Star Wars. and 2) Money money money. Most games that have been released based on movies took half the time to make than the movie did and all so it can release on the same day the movie comes out. That makes for poor stories, clunky control, sometimes horrid graphics and 100% of the time for me just a bad game I wasted my money on.

    Tip to the creators if your hands are tied making your game then pass it up - EA hint hint (but you guys are just game whores anyway)  and slow down and make a good game.

  • Rikimaru_XRikimaru_X Member UncommonPosts: 11,718

    I didn't get to read the whole debate yet (I'm having some problems at the moment). To tell you the truth and I might change when I'm done with the debate and the comments made by our community: I voted NO. Why? It really dose'nt matter. If a company wants a a Major IP to become a game then so be it. What you call a major IP might not be to me.

    Originality is good, but most developers feel that it won't catch on. People pick Major IP's to get the fans rolling and new comers to get the money rolling (or for a good reason other than money). What needs to be done is to have an original game (that is a console game) just become a MMORPG right off the bat or use ideas from a console game to make an original mmorpg. In a matter of fact, use REAL history

    Take Auto Assault for example. This game reminds me a lot of Twisted Metal and Vigilante 8.

    SilkRoad Online reminds me of Dynasty Warriors and SilkRoad Online is based on the SilkRoad trade.

    Second Life . . . . a life simulation correct?

    World World II Online, based on WWII?

    Well you get where I'm going with this. I'm going to finish reading later today.

    -In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
    |
    RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos

  • NihilxNihilx Member UncommonPosts: 141

    From a business point of view, having a pre-existing franchise when creating a MMORPG is extremely interesting. However many people might complain, there will always be some steady playerbase.

    From a creative point of view, such a franchise based game must be extremely limiting. Unless of course you use the franchise world, but change the time in which it is set. Games like LoTR online and SWG are pretty much doomed to fail, because every player already knows how things turn out. The effects of player actions on the world and story are minimal -if there are real effects at all- and the game is pretty much static, because it never goes beyond a certain point in time. Take SWG, no matter how well the Imperials do, the war will be won by the rebels, just because the existing story dictates it. How fun is that?

    AC (retired); EQ (retired); DAoC (retired); Horizons (retired); EQII (retired); CoH (retired); AC II (tested); Lineage II (beta); Neocron (tested); Saga of Ryzom (beta); SWG (retired)...

  • soulwyndsoulwynd Member UncommonPosts: 47

    I have a simple rule. I never buy a game based on a movie or a book. It's not because they build an expectative but because it seems that the developers believe the background they have from either will be enough to back up their games. The result is a horribly made game and I don't mean the story line, I mean the game system simply isn't good. If you don't believe me, take the several LOTR games that were made on the past couple years, or many of the movie spawned star wars games (Don't get me wrong, the whole Jedi Knight series even when it started way way back when you couldn't even be a jedi is a great game, but it obviously wasn't a -direct- spawn of the movies), or even tabletop based games like the two from Vampire. Are the developers that incompetent, gullible, or did the money get all spent on franchise and advertising so they were left with nothing to pay the programers?

    I'm not sure how it affects mmorpgs because I wont waste any money on movie/book based mmorpgs but I believe it might be similar. Can anyone back me up on that?

  • KormacKormac Member Posts: 297

    I would just like to comment that if you look at what exists and call it the whole truth then you rule out progress. (If all current products of a certain kind are lousy, that doesn't mean it can't / won't be done well).

    It might be a good rule of thumb to avoid them, though, but as far as free trials go I'd say give them a chance.

    The future: Adellion
    Common flaw in MMORPGs: The ability to die casually
    Advantages of Adellion: Dynamic world (affected by its inhabitants)
    Player-driven world (beasts won't be an endless supply of mighty swords, gold will come from mines, not dragonly dens)
    Player-driven world (Leadership is the privilege of a player, not an npc)

  • soulwyndsoulwynd Member UncommonPosts: 47


    Originally posted by Kormac
    I would just like to comment that if you look at what exists and call it the whole truth then you rule out progress. (If all current products of a certain kind are lousy, that doesn't mean it can't / won't be done well).
    It might be a good rule of thumb to avoid them, though, but as far as free trials go I'd say give them a chance.

    Oh, I said I don't buy them. I play demos and I have played almost every free trial mmorpg there is (or at least I think I did and I'm disappointed there isn't anything new for me to try out). I just haven't seen a real change from that trend yet. I'd enjoy to be surprised by a decent game based on lets say, Wheel of time? I remember there was a nice mud based on WoT somewhere.

  • severiusseverius Member UncommonPosts: 1,516

    It is very true that looking at what exists can not be the whole truth. But, from the company's own mouths and in one instance (DDO) it is plain to see that some companies are relying solely on the name brand.

    For example star wars galaxies... listening to the people who were once fans of the game it is plain to see that sony fell flat on their faces with that one. Bio Ware made KOTOR for us, and it is pretty much widely considered to be the best star wars games ever made. There is no Darth Vader, no Luke Skywalker etc yet it captured what alot of people wanted from a game. A KOTOR online would most likely be a huge success. Still based on the Intellectual Property but veering enough away from what was established in the original trilogy to allow gamers the ability to write their own story and have an impact on the game world.

    Star Trek Online has HUGE shoes to fill. Trekkies or trekkers or what ever they call themselves are a voracious bunch and if sto fails to live up to their expectations then there will be issues hehe. But, perpetual has brought in people that have worked with Gene Roddenberry, writers, directors, actors etc. Alot of what we know about the game is still very much a work in progress and only time will tell how well they are able to pull it off. The biggest problem with STO, imo, is that most everyone will want to be Kirk (picard archer etc) and no one will want to be Scotty (trip jeordie etc).

    But where STO has a chance in succeeding is that they are placing you in the star trek universe. Allowing you to go through the academy etc. You aren't playing alongside captain kirk or picard, you arent following their paths you are doing your own thing, which gives it as good a chance as Age of Conan in my eyes.

    I still believe that that is the largest problem with IP's. That some developers believe that gamers want to live and fight alongside the people from the books/movies etc. And true, some people do want that, yet that is what single player games are for. You have a limited investment in a single player game and being able to be Han Solo, Darth Vader etc is a fleeting enjoyment. An MMO is, in my mind, supposed to provide you with a world in which to explore, learn ,advance and write your own story. A place that you want to return to after a long day at work, or school, dealing with kids and real life in general. A place that becomes a home away from home. In an mmo you become emotionally connected with your characters and the people with whom you have forged friendships etc.

    When I finally logged out of SWG I went to Mos Espa, the town that my character had started in July 2, 2003. Before logging out I walked around the town, remembering the full cantina at games' launch. The people I had met, the friends I had made. Walking down the street towards the shuttle port I was reminded of a youngling Creature Handler that excitedly asked me for training and of the pvp battles that had raged not far away. Afterwards I made my way to the front of the starport, to where I first appeared in a gameworld full of promise. I changed into newbie clothes, looked at my melon , sat down and with a heavy heart I logged out. I had seen and done most everything there was to do in that game. I had fought with the best, I had died, I had fallen for a couple of girls. I had been in a guild that was nearly 300 players strong that was killed by the actions and inactions of sony. Found a few friends before the CU, joined their guild and before the NGE we were over 100 players strong. The game had changed but there was the promise of more content, more events and more excitement. When I logged out for the final time there was no one online. Mos Espa was barren apart from the npc's and it truly made me sad to know that I would most likely never step foot into that gameworld again.

    That is the emotional connection that an MMO can bring from a player. It is that which seperates an mmo from a single player game. And as I have said, an IP must be handled carefully. A developer has to be smart in the decisions they make and make sure that the games story continues moving. By placing SWG in the middle of the first trilogy they had tied their own hands and made nothing but poor decisions from the day the game launched. It was only the sand box feel of the game that kept people coming back for more. Then, in order to try and dupe unsuspecting people into the game they focused all of their last expansions entirely on the prequel movies. Kashyyyk and mustafaar??? where the hell was hoth or dagobah? No one cared about mustafarr or kashyyyk except the marketing people.

    IP's can be successful, I am sure of it. But the developers have to be smart and truely be fans of not one small part of the IP, but of the entire world/universe that the IP brings to the table. At least thats my opinion and as long as marketing types are having a hand in the direction of development I fear to say that there will be no good IP's produced as an mmo except by smaller development houses.

  • quentin_leequentin_lee Member Posts: 2

    I feel that they should not make MMORPGs anymore, they are all disappointments regardless of what IP they use.

    Jon Wood's point is misunderstood.  Some of the reasons why they are doomed to fail is because Developers will not be innovative and create a MMO that is dynamic.  Players do not have an impact on the world, its politics, its society, or its story.  Its like playing a singleplayer game with your friends. 

    I have Beta Tested a variety of game for the sole reason to provide suggestions to enhance these experiences and to push the evolution of the MMO model to new frontiers.  Investors don't care about that though.  They see it as, like Dana said: "An investors' dream".  But the current MMO model is old, outdated and needs to evolve.  If you start changing the model of the MMO, you loose interest from the investors.  The quality of the game is reduced to a tried and true model that allows people to play in the world, not become part of it.

    But is that model tried and true or is it coined as such because the gamers that generate the billions of dollars in the industry just don't have a choice... I leave you all to ponder that.

     

    Quentin.

  • ZornhauZornhau Member UncommonPosts: 25

    I replied yes on the poll b/c obviously it's going to happen and will keep on happening.

    The question should be will the developers ever get it right?

    My two cents is that as long as more IP-based games are made (and IP-based MMORPGs), someone will eventually get it right. It'll take someone who's has a vision, an indepth understanding of the IP, and the passion to make everything work out.
    IP-based MMORPG will need to be based on the world, not the main characters . . . and the main characters will have to be a part of history or have not come into existence yet. As long as the world is still intriguing, I don't see why people are so set against IP-based games. I don't treat them as any other games other than possibility of name recognition, but I always base my game buying decisions on the developers past history :D. And even then, I usually wait until I get the reviews first before buying the game.

  • PhifePhife Member Posts: 229

    Dana said it all right here:

    "It is the responsibility of developers to pick IPs that has fans as excited about the worlds as the individual stories; which is to say appropriate worlds for development."

    This is absolutely true.  I would add not only is that true, but, once developers pick IPs that have potential, they have an additional responisibility to not F it up.

    image

  • fantasygirlfantasygirl Member Posts: 26

    I think that Intellectual ideas and the like aren't used enough in MMORPG or most RPG's for that matter. With the exception of games like Final Fantasy, maybe Guild Wars, and games like Alice (not as much of one per se) there is NO storyline whatsoever. Granted I play adventure games a lot so I'm big into stories, no that does not mean I don't enjoy killing things just not all the time and two I don't dislike RPG's or MMORPG's w/out a storyline I just find them more interesting and more fun to play. I think that having a good storyline or intellectual compenent can add a lot to a game and keep a person intrigued enough to play.  Just look at games like Might and Magic, not the best example I know but it's works; there's a rather simple storyline but enough of one to keep you intrigued. Why is FInal Fantasy so successful? It combines the best of both worlds and good graphics I think that's the key to making any good game regardless of the genre to mix a good storyline, some combat, some chance of death basically, and good graphics (who would want to play a game with bad graphics anyway?) Unless you're putting up with them for some other reason in whcih case that's understandable. Well that's my 2 cents worth.

    Heidi

  • Wolfpack75Wolfpack75 Member UncommonPosts: 43

    What bothers me about using major IP for a game is that I find they lack immersion. Without a strong storyline for the gamer to experience and interact with it is hard to feel you are really part of the world. I don't want to watch the original heroes as they go on epic quests and I wander around collecting eyeballs for a fortifying stew that will aid in the completion of their mission.

    A parallel storyline that intersects that of the original IP or perhaps a storyline that begins at the end of the IP would be best (must be truly epic and vast, not dealing with petty issues). I know a lot of lore purists would love to argue that doing so would ruin the game for them. Nevermind that it is technically impossible for the devs to stay "true" to the lore since the mere process of making it into an MMORPG completely and irrevocably changes the storyline.

    I agree that so far every dev out there has failed miserably in making a thought-provoking, intelligent, immersive MMOG based on an IP. That doesn't mean you stop trying to get it right. Perhaps a dev will look at the continued failure of the rest of the community and finally produce that masterpiece we all are waiting for.


    =Dan

  • Rikimaru_XRikimaru_X Member UncommonPosts: 11,718
    I would really like to hear a debate in a Podcast to see if you guys really pull out those words and thoughts like that. I know ya can't just throw paragraphis like that out on AIM image

    -In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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    RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos

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