SWG, Lineage 2 , COH and UO all had more exploits and bugs than WOW. And thats just naming some off the top of my head. So , no I dont think it is nonsensical. Also games like DAOC and AC1 as well as the ones I just mentioned Have tended to clean up there act after they had been around for a while. WOW hasnt had to clean up anything, theyve been running pretty much bug free from the start.[/b][/quote]
WoW... pretty much bug free from the start? What crack are you smoking? I was there in Beta and for the first five months. It was one long bug-fest. Log-in server failures were regular -- multiple times per week -- right into the Summer. There was sufficient downage and flaws that they were handing out "free days" over and over again. That isn't to single-out WoW -- I can't think of any game that launched without flaws that took months to sort. But for you to make the statement that "they've been running pretty much bug free from the start" is simply to ignore reality and re-write history.
I did post another reply, but for some reason it has not appeared and i cannot be bothered to re-type it (didn't copy, DOH!)
Overall it basically said, Spydermr2 - felt more negative than positive - agree to disagree - agree not completely bug free, but support very good - yadda yadda yadda.
I think my closing comments on this thread should be that some have good experiences, some have bad, it is all a very personal point of view and all you can do is judge for yourselves.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Admirker, Im sorry man but your review is BS. I dont play WoW anymore, I did for 6 months or so. You give certain aspects of the game a 1/10. This would imply that out of all the MMORPG's out there, that WoW is the worst in those aspects. Now you say youve played Horizons, FFXI, Rhyzom, EQ2, and AC2 and guess what? SO have I and WoW is not the worst of them in fact its better than all of them in nearly every aspect except crafting which Horizons is a 10 for sure. So either youre lying on the games youve played or you shouldnt be reviewing games at all, never mind playing them.
Originally posted by jason_webb AAAAAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! I did post another reply, but for some reason it has not appeared and i cannot be bothered to re-type it (didn't copy, DOH!) Overall it basically said, Spydermr2 - felt more negative than positive - agree to disagree - agree not completely bug free, but support very good - yadda yadda yadda. I think my closing comments on this thread should be that some have good experiences, some have bad, it is all a very personal point of view and all you can do is judge for yourselves.
That is more or less my position on WoW. My overall point has been: the game does what it does well, and it appeals to exactly those it was targetting. There's nothing, nothing at all, wrong with that. But I also think that with only slight additions, the game could ALSO appeal to those who want something more from their MMORPGs. And I listed those things: more customizable crafting; more customization to the player models (no, I don't care to set to the millimeter the size of my eyebrow (idiotic EQ2), but by just adding one or two alternate models for each sex/race, they'd vastly add to the variety in the world). At least some quests where there's an actual conversation engine, even a basic "choose one of three choices for how this talk goes", instead of just click-and-read. None of those three things are terribly difficult -- the upcoming (whenever the expansion arrives) jewelcrafting and socketed items have the potential to go far to helping crafting and introducing some actual individualisation into the equipment.
To repeat: my purpose was to praise WoW where I think it's praiseworthy, and to criticise, hopefully with examples supporting my arguments, where I think criticism is fair. And to offer, as above, a few possible suggestions. Adding what I listed above wouldn't change the game for those who already like it -- but it would add some depth that would attract those turned off by the simplicity of the game. I don't want to change the experience of those who like it; I want to take what's there, which is at its core a good engine/interface, and add things that would bring in MORE players. There's no reason WoW can't be the ideal solution -- what it is, plus a little bit of customization and more "mechanisms" for players to impact/change the world -- for everyone. And again, I'm trying to tailor my suggestions to things that wouldn't detract from the experiences of those who already feel the game is "complete" for them.
I've given up the hope that I can log into an RP server and not be treated to the loutish behavior I detailed in my last post. I think it's a curse that comes with attracting millions of people -- you get a proportional increase in the poorly-behaved. It's just... sad and annoying, particularly on an RP server where behavior is supposed to be better (more roleplaying).
SWG, Lineage 2 , COH and UO all had more exploits and bugs than WOW. And thats just naming some off the top of my head. So , no I dont think it is nonsensical. Also games like DAOC and AC1 as well as the ones I just mentioned Have tended to clean up there act after they had been around for a while. WOW hasnt had to clean up anything, theyve been running pretty much bug free from the start.[/b][/quote]
WoW... pretty much bug free from the start? What crack are you smoking? I was there in Beta and for the first five months. It was one long bug-fest. Log-in server failures were regular -- multiple times per week -- right into the Summer. There was sufficient downage and flaws that they were handing out "free days" over and over again. That isn't to single-out WoW -- I can't think of any game that launched without flaws that took months to sort. But for you to make the statement that "they've been running pretty much bug free from the start" is simply to ignore reality and re-write history.
There is no need to insult me to make a point. And for your information beta is beta......thats the point of beta. And I said pretty much bug free from the start , meaning release and the first couple months , etc etc. From 6 months to a year or more every game I listed had problems. WOW on the other hand has minimal problems....................care to stick your foot in your mouth again after insulting me genius?
Also if you would like to defend your postion that they have had tons of bugs, try referring to bugs and not log in issues. , So far you banking all you have on log in issues and beta..........we know there are log in issues. I am talking about in game exploits and bugs. Besides we know alot of the log in issues can be related to the 5 million or so people crowded on all the servers that no other game in the history of mmorpgs has had to deal with.
...ah screw it, im done reading your trash......cant have a decent convo with someone without them demaning you on here .
There is no need to insult me to make a point. And for your information beta is beta......thats the point of beta. And I said pretty much bug free from the start , meaning release and the first couple months , etc etc. From 6 months to a year or more every game I listed had problems. WOW on the other hand has minimal problems....................care to stick your foot in your mouth again after insulting me genius? Also if you would like to defend your postion that they have had tons of bugs, try referring to bugs and not log in issues. , So far you banking all you have on log in issues and beta..........we know there are log in issues. I am talking about in game exploits and bugs. Besides we know alot of the log in issues can be related to the 5 million or so people crowded on all the servers that no other game in the history of mmorpgs has had to deal with. ...ah screw it, im done reading your trash......cant have a decent convo with someone without them demaning you on here .[/b][/quote]
I didn't throw the first "insult" in these posts, others did that (and some were deleted because of it). I was so utterly shocked that you would call the days and days of downtime and fixes in the first few months of WoW "minimal" that yes, I reacted to it. Secondly, I said "beta and the first five months", which would invalidate the entire first paragraph of your retort. First five months? As in, after launch? The log-in issues WERE bug-related, as well as population-related (the blues were clear on that point, it wasn't simply unexpected population, it was also unexpected sections of code that failed to function as expected, which is the DEFINITION of bug). There were so many other bug issues -- as in, problems with code, which was why, for the first few months of WoW, we joked about "patch day" actually incorporating the evening before and the full 24 hours afterward... because the fixes for existing bugs more often than not brought in new (obviously unexpected) bugs. To call what WoW went through in its first six months or so "minimal" is the insult -- it rewrites what actually happens and minimises it. Further, I mentioned having been in Beta -- I didn't state any problems that were IN Beta. Again, simply reading the whole of sentences and paragraphs instead of parts would help you know that already.
Worse, for all of this, I've already stated over and over again that any new game is going to have teething troubles. That's expected. But what is also a fact is that WoW was very slow off the cuff getting their fixes in (which again Blizzard publicly admitted last Winter/Spring, so it's ridiculous to try to say otherwise) -- which makes stating that they were "quick" to fix and started with "minimal troubles" simply ludicrous.
Can we now get back to the other 95% of the posts, which are constructive and oriented toward debating the goods/bads of the game and offering possible solutions/additions that would further the game and add to it?
Are you WoW's public defender? Seems every time someone says something you disagree with you ask them, "what game are you playing". These are opinions by people who played the game just as yours are, just Opinions!
On the quests. Just because you still have quests to do dosen't mean everyone else did or does too. The few guys I often teamed with although not everyday, we all ran out of quests before level 58 as did others who would say it in general chat. Players would constantly yell out for teams saying they had no quests to do. This happens in other games too such as CoV or don't you know?
So you made 2 gold on a quest, you consider this is be a lot, do you? Thats peanuts considering the price of everything in that game. The casual gamers doesn't farm or does 10-20 quests in a row every time in or everyday and thats exactly what it takes to make any gold at all. And even if you did all this work you still in the poor. It's why so many players go e-bay to buy gold and items. They do this just to keep pace in this game, or you didn't know this?
Just in case you didn't know, hotshot. WoW is the one game that does the most business on e-bay selling gold and items.
On drop items you said, they were rarely bound to you. Now I ask you, what game you played? Anyone who ever played this game knows many of the items are bound. I looted many items which I couldn't even use that were bound to me therefore making them untradedable or sellable. Example: being a druid I looted armor or weapons for a Paladin or a Warrior which I then had to sell to a vendor for a few measely coins since they were bound to me.
You also said, all battle grounds are leveled so all the people there are of the same level. Really? Where? WoW is a Gankfest pure and simple. Maybe you aren't aware of all the complaining that went on in the forums when the Honor system first came out. Players were always complaining about how unbalanced the honor system was, about the increase of ganking brought on by this so-called honor system. Once the majority of players reached the higher levels the complaints subsided somewhat being now they couldn't be ganked as before.
Items are mad expensive because no money can be made and when someone does get an epic item in a loot they then put a big price on it.
So WoW has reached 5 mil players. So what? Does this mean the game is all pure amd holy and without its faults and unbalancess? Who you kidding?
You make some interesting and fair points, though obviously your scoring system is laughable.
Crafting doesn't work. I'm the operations manager of a Hedge Fund in London and I know a thing or two about finance - don't bother with a crafting prof until at least L40 and only then if you have a specific purpose in mind. Just buy off some other poor sod who's forced to sell at a pathetic price to try to up his skill.
And yes, there are allot of kids in this game. Some of them are little diamonds, some are real jerk offs, and it will impinge on your enjoyment of a nights play if you unwittingly try to play with a tool. Mind you, as access to MMORPG's gets ever easier, more kids will get involved. I guess that's progress, and I'm not going to suggest that I wasn't once a snot nosed immature little scroat once myself.
But lets not forget the amazing playability of this game. It is enormous fun right from the start. All the way through there are great quests, it encourages team play all the way through, but you can pick it up & play solo for 20mins at any time just as easy. You almost never HAVE to do anything annoying. On a crap quest? - Skip it. There are another 500 cool ones. Want to sell a nice item - 1 min in the AH. Can't be bothered grinding for a rare drop? - buy it in the AH from some dude who got it while questing. Fancy a quick blast of PvP - join the que for a BG & then hearth back to your questing place so u can play while you wait. And all the time you build up your network of good guys.
The game is supurbly well balanced, abolutely vast, and enormous fun for at least 6mth of hard play. The major flaw in it is some of the other players, and you can't blame Bliz for making a game so good that it has attracted a core of knobs.
There is a reason that this game is so popular, and while it certainly isn't flawless, it's weaknesses are easily ignorable & still leave a supurb product behind. So if it doesn't have steller graphics or sound, it's just so easy to get fun out of it that I can't hold that against it.
It's not a big boys toy like a Ferrai, it's a laugh riot like a racing go-cart.
The race doesn't always go to the swiftest, nor the battle to the strongest, but that's the way to bet.
honestly.... If you were a teacher and you gave a guy that marks... Youd be kicked out and murdered in a day or 2... I wouldnt give a text based mmo a 3.3/10 average however dumb it was. when i read yer review i thought you were being sarcastic but your just biased. (like most ppl say)
Your statement about the community of WoW is somewhat false. I have been playing WoW for over a year now and have had couple of 60's one of them is in a major endgame raiding guild. While, I have seen a few immature people in like the barrens(where anything goes) the general community, especially on my server, can be mature. At least the WoW community isnt NEARLY as bad as the Guildwars community where there are times when you go to the PvP arena and you see characters with blatantly racist names and making rude/vulgar/racist statements off a whim because they know they cant get in trouble for it.
"Without funk, is there hope for panda?" -Derivative of Ishmael
Damn it, i thought i had finished with this thread and then i get drawn back in again. Right where to start with you then Blue3000. No, i am not WoW's public defender, but as you say these are my opinions as everyone else has their own which makes them just as valid.
"What game are you playing"
Well, the main reason that i keep saying this is that my experiences in the most have been completely the opposite, so as far as i can see they seem to be playing a different game to me. It is more a metaphor (or however you spell that) than an actual, i realise that they are playing the same game, it is just that our experience differs so much. Does that make sense?
Quests
Well, whoopee for you on the quest front. To complete all the quests on both continents for all races is an amazing thing to do and your reputation must have been great. All i was saying is that as an average player, i still have loads of quests to do even into L60.
On the money front, if you had actually read my whole comment, it said that i made a couple of gold from the quest, but a shed load more from the items i picked up and sold at auction during the course of the quest. Hence my actual earnings from the quest are much, much greater than what i earn from the actual quest completion itself. In simple terms, 2g from quest + 30g from items aquired during the quest = 32g from quest altogether.
Items
You are way, way out on this one. Generally, only quest and dungeon items (from elite MOB's) are bound to you on pick up, the vast majority of items in the game can easily be picked up and sold.
Nearly every item is bound to you on use and this is what you may be getting confused with, that's all i can think of.
Battlegrounds
All of the instance battlegrounds are level ranked, so if you are L23 and you queue to go into the "Arathi battleground" you will be drawn into one with L20-29's, how plain can that be. As far as the honour system is concerned, i have no problems with it as it stands as anyone of too higher level killing too lower level character now gets nothing at all for it, so there is no incentive to "Gank" (see, things change).
Money (again)
Yes, epic items are madly expensive, but for the trouble involved in getting them it is no big surprise. You always have the option of going to get them yourself, but as one of my friends who does epics a lot was explaining the other day, he has only group qualified (their own epic etiquate) for one major item in his last 5 epic outings. At the end of the day, people can only sell items for what people are willing to pay for them and if they put them on auction for those prices and they sell, well all power to them.
I have always, on average got about 100-150g in my account and if i fall well below that i go out and earn some more. When i bought some new armour a couple of weeks ago i dropped to about 15g and it took me only three sessions of play and three days of auctions to make it back to 120g+, so money is not that hard to come by if you are willing to put in the work for it.
Finally (again)
Again, if you actually read my comment, i have never said that the game is pure and holy. Not everyone is going to like it and i am sure that i could quite easily pick away at every little niggle if i really tried (i am not going to by the way), but i comment on how i see things and correct comments i believe are wrong. That is my stance, pure and simple.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Originally posted by sedated many people say that it's a very good game but from ur review, i finally decided to not to play and not even bother to try WoW. or maybe ur just scoring very low? lol, anyways i trust ur judgement.
the only part that is accurate is the community..Everything else is not accurate at all.. If many people believed WoW was this bad,there wouldn't be 5 million people playing the game now.. Personally I played every MMOG to date and WoW is the third best MMO I've ever played.. The 3 Best MMO's I've played are:
1)EQ for 3 yrs
2)Ultima Online, 2 years
3)WoW 1 year off and on,,only because they ran out of content for me..Doing a million MC,BWL runs just got pretty boring and repetitive..
One thing about WoW which everyone has to agree on is, leveling is fun.Its a game that u can solo to 60,and do group instances for loot and a challenge.. The UI system is easy and the best I've ever seen in MMO.. The abilities,spells,and skill system is one of the best I've seen since the original everquest.. Of course the graphics are a bit cartoony,but within the first few hours you'll get used to it and they adapt nicely..
Don't decide not to get the game based on this persons harsh review.. Try it for yourself and see if u like it.. I came from EQ2 a year ago..Now EQ2 had great grpahics but horrible gameplay..WoW has great gameplay and average graphics and look which game most people play.. If EQ2 was half as fun as WoW,I'd still be playing...
So it all comes down to fun for me and gameplay..I enjoyed playing WoW until the game got repetitive.. If there were alot more content,I'd still be playing now..
Rallithon Oakthornn (Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
Originally posted by admriker444 13. WoW - Played at launch for about 3 months. Returned several times (3) for usually 1-2 months each time. Currently playing 55 paladin on shadow council
Your pretentious ass realizes this quote nullifies everything else you've posted in this thread, right?
Originally posted by admriker444 1. Graphics - While definitely simplistic, there is much attention to detail. However, one thing bothers me is there isnt much difference from low settings to maxed out ones. Sure I get to see footprints in sand but where are the better graphics ? Where are the shadows ? Where is the sparkling details one should see if they're able to crank everything to maximum ? Also the areas all look to similiar. You have 4 basic areas, swamps...snowy lands, burned out areas, and deserts and they all look the same. Too cartoonish for my taste and pixelated. Score - 4
Did we play the same game? For that matter, what other types of areas were looking for? There's snowy lands, forests, swamps, deserts, burned and blasted areas... pretty much the same as anywhere in the real world.
I also notice you never mentioned instances and the areas you find there, which is an odd omission since they're probably the most important areas of the game. They have a pretty wide variety of scenarios there, some with some pretty outstanding artwork.
That's a screenshot I took at the resolution I play at. The atmosphere in many areas of the game is outstanding. If you're missing shadows and such, you have something turned off.
There arent any vendors you can use to sell your own goods. And since there isnt any housing, one cant set up a shop or mall either. The AH or spamming is pretty much the only way to sell stuff.
...and what's wrong with that? The auction houses work better to sell things and are easier to use than any other setup I've run into in an MMO. Things are set up this way because it's simple and easy and accessible, not to mention more fun than running all over the place trying to find what you want like in the bazaar of EQ or the housing merchants of DaoC.
No decay means tons of peeps will simply never ever need your goods. Also since WoW allows multiple toons per server peeps simply will take their lvl 60 toon and farm a low lvl instance for gear for the next toon they make. Many times I ran across a lvl 10 rogue who already had gear in his bank for every level. Again, lack of relying on others (a staple of most mmorpgs) is the glaring issue here.
Items bind when equipped; once you put it on, it can't be traded. Crafters are highly valued at higher levels, and many extremely good items require a high skill (and can be sold for lots of money). There are a LOT of people playing in any case; you can sell things of any level and make money if you do it at a reasonable price.
4. Community - What can I say to some up WoW's community...hmm. Well worst mmorpg community comes quickly to mind. I have never in any mmorpg seen such an awful foul-mouthed community of children ever. If they arent discussing their mating rituals or getting drunk, they're arguing about something ridiculous. I cant recall how many thousands of times Ive seen some poor fella ask a simple quest like where is something and bam major flame war breaks out. Just try selling some item and watch out because 50+ peeps will give their opinion on whether your price is fair. Most of the players in WoW seemingly are NOT mmorpg vets. They have little clue on how to act, conduct themselves, nor play their class properly. Many times Ive seen warriors with no shields trying to play the rogue. Or watched in horror as a warlock ran into the middle of a mob and dropped an AOE on them (then swore at priest cause he died). Its a really lucky day if you actually find a decent group to run all the way through an instance.
Try Guild Wars. Turn off General Chat. Poof... problem solved. Yes, there are some wankers. It's not MOST, but some servers are certainly better than others. The only difference between this and other MMO's is the openness of the chat system; you can talk to entire areas more easily than most other games. It sucks because of losers like you mentioned, but it's great when looking for groups. There's a good side and a bad side to it; use /ignore and you'll notice how fast the system starts to work better.
Guilds are like nothing Ive ever seen in other mmorpgs. In other mmorpgs, joining a guild is an important step in playing the game. It usually involves a recommendation from another member. It might require joining them for an instance or group hunt to test out your skills. It could require tribute of goods or gold. Some even have websites that require filling out applications as well. In WoW its a completely different animal which is a reflection of the lack of maturity of the community. Peeps will invite players to join their guild without even talking to them first. Others will spam looking for others to sign their charter and arent required to join after (for some reason many just want to start a guild but dont care if anyone joins it ???) I've bounced around in several guilds. Some disbanded. Others were maybe 5 players playing 30 toons (all alts) so nobody was ever on. Most are full of selfish players that rarely group together to benefit each other.
This is absolutely no different than any other game. There are drive-by invite guilds, and there are more close-knit friends in guilds. People spam about signing their charter because it requires 10 people to create the guild in the first place, and they'll worry about filling it once its made.
My experience with the guild system here is that it's exactly the same as every other MMO I've played.
Some servers are designated as role playing. However very little RP goes on there. Again the maturity factor here really hurts. What WoW really needs is an Adults only server Score - 1
I play on an RP server. There's roleplaying if you look for it, and there's not if you don't. Maturity is much higher on the RP servers when compared to most others, but don't mistake maturity for age; a lot of the wankers you're talking about are the same age as you and me, and aren't teenagers at all.
5. PvP - Two major glaring issues with PvP in my opinion. One, its way too fast. There really isnt much time to bother with strategy. Its just mash buttons and hope you win. After experiencing SWG where one might spend 30 minutes battling a bounty hunter, this WoW PvP leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Second, the Honor system doesnt work. I played on several PvP severs, they were all the same....GANKFEST. Many times I had to log off in disgust because of the ganking that would occur. Dont get me wrong, I have no problem getting attacked by an enemy if I quest or explore in neutral or enemy territory. However, when I continually getting slain by a lvl 60 rogue and Im only 12, well thats just stupid. The Honor system is supposed to penalize someone into NOT attacking such lower level players. My last night playing on a PvP server went like this....I was a lvl 14 paladin. I was in Westfall trying to quest. A swarm of horde were there doing some major griefing. They kept killing the quest giver I needed to turn in my quest for the pocketwatch and collecting oats. This horde literally just sat there and killed him anytime he spawned. Other horde players camped the graveyard and would gank anyone reviving. Or they would camp the griphon so we couldnt fly out. Many stood in the entrance to DM so no alliance could approach to get in. This went on for 5 days. Finally I gave up and moved on to a so-called Role-Playing server.
The last night you played on the PvP server they were ganking the quest giver, and it went on for 5 days. Which was it? The last night, or for 5 days?
Don't play on a PvP server. They're well known for being a gankfest; you'd know that by your experience in UO and other open-pvp games.
Again, it's odd that you talk about PvP but never even mention the battlegrounds. If you think there's no strategy to PvP, you've never done it and you've never fought in a battleground.
Score - 1 6. Animations / emotes - Combat animations really are quite awful in WoW. I get really bored watching my paladin doing the same slash over and over and over and over and over again. Oh wait, he just did a different slash for a critical hit, neat. Oh here we go again, slash over and over and over bleh. Emotes, like the community are simplistic and uninspiring. After seeing the same naked elf dance in IF a few thousand times you get tired of them. Absolutely the worst Ive ever seen in a mmorpg. Score - 1
...again, did we play the same game? There are a lot of emotes, every race and gender has different ones, and they're fluid and generally well done.
You also use the worst class example in a paladin, where auto-attack is their core melee base. Pick a class that uses abilities often if you want something like that; every ability uses its own animation.
7. Game Economy - In short, a total mess. Because of the 5+ million players, gold farmers have set up shop in the game. Prices have skyrocketed since launch day. And because prices for items have gotten so high, many players are almost forced to buy gold from the very source of the problem (how ironic) Its quite common to see a blue item sword with average dps selling for 150g ouch. At launch even epics didnt go above 100g, now they sell for 2000g.
Yes, the economy is fairly messed up... but the little secret of those high priced blues and purples is that you don't have to buy them. Go get them yourself; you'll get better items doing the instances you never mentioned than buying items you don't want or can't afford from the AH you don't like.
8. Sound - Basically non-existent. Besides the music you hear upon entering SW or the occasional grunt while swing your sword, its just silent. If you crank the volume you might notice your mail armor making a clinking sound while you walk. Otherwise, its obvious Blizzard cared very little for doing anything innovative here. Score - 1
Wow man... just wow. You're really just making this up now. Go stand on the boat once. You hear the echo of wood from the planks below, the creak of the masts in the wind and the sound of the surf. The music is outstanding and varied.
I dare anyone to compare the sound in WoW to another MMO and not come out saying it's the best of the bunch in this department. I love good sound in a game, and there is really no contest here.
Total score 33, Rating - 3.3 / 10
But you played to 60, right? And played on a bunch of different servers, PvP and RP and otherwise, right?
The average playtime of a level 60 character is about 21 days. And you had a bunch of alts.
I just don't get how a game that bad would interest you up to level 60. If I don't like a game, I stop playing it after a couple hours tops.
If you don't like it, that's fine... to each his own. But I am REALLY tired of people who do or supposedly do have high level characters in ANY MMO coming back later and then talking about how awful the game is. How can you not recommend a game that gave you enough enjoyment to put that kind of time into a character?
You...are my hero! I agree TOTALLY with everything you just said.
WoW imo is the best MMO out there. Very little grind. Oh sure the graphics aren't this big heaping mass of details and sh*t like that but that's because it's WARCRAFT. If they made it look like EQ2 or something where everything looked like it'd be serious then it wouldn't feel more like Warcraft.
Originally posted by thepker honestly.... If you were a teacher and you gave a guy that marks... Youd be kicked out and murdered in a day or 2... I wouldnt give a text based mmo a 3.3/10 average however dumb it was. when i read yer review i thought you were being sarcastic but your just biased. (like most ppl say)
that is a bad comparison... if a teacher was giving out those kinda marks chances are the student deserved them and the teacher would be doing that kid no favours by giving him better marks to make him feel better... he would just be passing on the problem to someone else to deal with. And if the problem got passed on enough you could end up with a real life homer simpson working in a nuc plant... now that is a pleasent thought is it not?
while i myself would not give this game that low of a mark( prob 5 or 6 due to it not having anything really new in the game and just a next gen clone of all the others that came before) saying he is biased is well redundent since everyone has some biased thats why when researching something you try to find someone that writes a good and a bad review to get both sides of the story. after reading his review i understand why he gave it the marks he did I might not agree but i see where he is comming from.
WOW does what it does well its just for those of us that have been playing these games for a few years before WOW came out.... there is nothing really different here that is not in all the others already and that we have not grown bored of.
Comments
SWG, Lineage 2 , COH and UO all had more exploits and bugs than WOW. And thats just naming some off the top of my head. So , no I dont think it is nonsensical. Also games like DAOC and AC1 as well as the ones I just mentioned Have tended to clean up there act after they had been around for a while. WOW hasnt had to clean up anything, theyve been running pretty much bug free from the start.[/b][/quote]
WoW... pretty much bug free from the start? What crack are you smoking? I was there in Beta and for the first five months. It was one long bug-fest. Log-in server failures were regular -- multiple times per week -- right into the Summer. There was sufficient downage and flaws that they were handing out "free days" over and over again. That isn't to single-out WoW -- I can't think of any game that launched without flaws that took months to sort. But for you to make the statement that "they've been running pretty much bug free from the start" is simply to ignore reality and re-write history.
AAAAAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
I did post another reply, but for some reason it has not appeared and i cannot be bothered to re-type it (didn't copy, DOH!)
Overall it basically said, Spydermr2 - felt more negative than positive - agree to disagree - agree not completely bug free, but support very good - yadda yadda yadda.
I think my closing comments on this thread should be that some have good experiences, some have bad, it is all a very personal point of view and all you can do is judge for yourselves.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
-----------------Censored------------------
That is more or less my position on WoW. My overall point has been: the game does what it does well, and it appeals to exactly those it was targetting. There's nothing, nothing at all, wrong with that. But I also think that with only slight additions, the game could ALSO appeal to those who want something more from their MMORPGs. And I listed those things: more customizable crafting; more customization to the player models (no, I don't care to set to the millimeter the size of my eyebrow (idiotic EQ2), but by just adding one or two alternate models for each sex/race, they'd vastly add to the variety in the world). At least some quests where there's an actual conversation engine, even a basic "choose one of three choices for how this talk goes", instead of just click-and-read. None of those three things are terribly difficult -- the upcoming (whenever the expansion arrives) jewelcrafting and socketed items have the potential to go far to helping crafting and introducing some actual individualisation into the equipment.
To repeat: my purpose was to praise WoW where I think it's praiseworthy, and to criticise, hopefully with examples supporting my arguments, where I think criticism is fair. And to offer, as above, a few possible suggestions. Adding what I listed above wouldn't change the game for those who already like it -- but it would add some depth that would attract those turned off by the simplicity of the game. I don't want to change the experience of those who like it; I want to take what's there, which is at its core a good engine/interface, and add things that would bring in MORE players. There's no reason WoW can't be the ideal solution -- what it is, plus a little bit of customization and more "mechanisms" for players to impact/change the world -- for everyone. And again, I'm trying to tailor my suggestions to things that wouldn't detract from the experiences of those who already feel the game is "complete" for them.
I've given up the hope that I can log into an RP server and not be treated to the loutish behavior I detailed in my last post. I think it's a curse that comes with attracting millions of people -- you get a proportional increase in the poorly-behaved. It's just... sad and annoying, particularly on an RP server where behavior is supposed to be better (more roleplaying).
There is no need to insult me to make a point. And for your information beta is beta......thats the point of beta. And I said pretty much bug free from the start , meaning release and the first couple months , etc etc. From 6 months to a year or more every game I listed had problems. WOW on the other hand has minimal problems....................care to stick your foot in your mouth again after insulting me genius?
.[/b][/quote]
Also if you would like to defend your postion that they have had tons of bugs, try referring to bugs and not log in issues. , So far you banking all you have on log in issues and beta..........we know there are log in issues. I am talking about in game exploits and bugs. Besides we know alot of the log in issues can be related to the 5 million or so people crowded on all the servers that no other game in the history of mmorpgs has had to deal with.
...ah screw it, im done reading your trash......cant have a decent convo with someone without them demaning you on here
I didn't throw the first "insult" in these posts, others did that (and some were deleted because of it). I was so utterly shocked that you would call the days and days of downtime and fixes in the first few months of WoW "minimal" that yes, I reacted to it.
Secondly, I said "beta and the first five months", which would invalidate the entire first paragraph of your retort. First five months? As in, after launch? The log-in issues WERE bug-related, as well as population-related (the blues were clear on that point, it wasn't simply unexpected population, it was also unexpected sections of code that failed to function as expected, which is the DEFINITION of bug). There were so many other bug issues -- as in, problems with code, which was why, for the first few months of WoW, we joked about "patch day" actually incorporating the evening before and the full 24 hours afterward... because the fixes for existing bugs more often than not brought in new (obviously unexpected) bugs. To call what WoW went through in its first six months or so "minimal" is the insult -- it rewrites what actually happens and minimises it.
Further, I mentioned having been in Beta -- I didn't state any problems that were IN Beta. Again, simply reading the whole of sentences and paragraphs instead of parts would help you know that already.
Worse, for all of this, I've already stated over and over again that any new game is going to have teething troubles. That's expected. But what is also a fact is that WoW was very slow off the cuff getting their fixes in (which again Blizzard publicly admitted last Winter/Spring, so it's ridiculous to try to say otherwise) -- which makes stating that they were "quick" to fix and started with "minimal troubles" simply ludicrous.
Can we now get back to the other 95% of the posts, which are constructive and oriented toward debating the goods/bads of the game and offering possible solutions/additions that would further the game and add to it?
to: Jason_Webb
Are you WoW's public defender? Seems every time someone says something you disagree with you ask them, "what game are you playing". These are opinions by people who played the game just as yours are, just Opinions!
On the quests. Just because you still have quests to do dosen't mean everyone else did or does too. The few guys I often teamed with although not everyday, we all ran out of quests before level 58 as did others who would say it in general chat. Players would constantly yell out for teams saying they had no quests to do. This happens in other games too such as CoV or don't you know?
So you made 2 gold on a quest, you consider this is be a lot, do you? Thats peanuts considering the price of everything in that game. The casual gamers doesn't farm or does 10-20 quests in a row every time in or everyday and thats exactly what it takes to make any gold at all. And even if you did all this work you still in the poor. It's why so many players go e-bay to buy gold and items. They do this just to keep pace in this game, or you didn't know this?
Just in case you didn't know, hotshot. WoW is the one game that does the most business on e-bay selling gold and items.
On drop items you said, they were rarely bound to you. Now I ask you, what game you played? Anyone who ever played this game knows many of the items are bound. I looted many items which I couldn't even use that were bound to me therefore making them untradedable or sellable. Example: being a druid I looted armor or weapons for a Paladin or a Warrior which I then had to sell to a vendor for a few measely coins since they were bound to me.
You also said, all battle grounds are leveled so all the people there are of the same level. Really? Where? WoW is a Gankfest pure and simple. Maybe you aren't aware of all the complaining that went on in the forums when the Honor system first came out. Players were always complaining about how unbalanced the honor system was, about the increase of ganking brought on by this so-called honor system. Once the majority of players reached the higher levels the complaints subsided somewhat being now they couldn't be ganked as before.
Items are mad expensive because no money can be made and when someone does get an epic item in a loot they then put a big price on it.
So WoW has reached 5 mil players. So what? Does this mean the game is all pure amd holy and without its faults and unbalancess? Who you kidding?
You make some interesting and fair points, though obviously your scoring system is laughable.
Crafting doesn't work. I'm the operations manager of a Hedge Fund in London and I know a thing or two about finance - don't bother with a crafting prof until at least L40 and only then if you have a specific purpose in mind. Just buy off some other poor sod who's forced to sell at a pathetic price to try to up his skill.
And yes, there are allot of kids in this game. Some of them are little diamonds, some are real jerk offs, and it will impinge on your enjoyment of a nights play if you unwittingly try to play with a tool. Mind you, as access to MMORPG's gets ever easier, more kids will get involved. I guess that's progress, and I'm not going to suggest that I wasn't once a snot nosed immature little scroat once myself.
But lets not forget the amazing playability of this game. It is enormous fun right from the start. All the way through there are great quests, it encourages team play all the way through, but you can pick it up & play solo for 20mins at any time just as easy. You almost never HAVE to do anything annoying. On a crap quest? - Skip it. There are another 500 cool ones. Want to sell a nice item - 1 min in the AH. Can't be bothered grinding for a rare drop? - buy it in the AH from some dude who got it while questing. Fancy a quick blast of PvP - join the que for a BG & then hearth back to your questing place so u can play while you wait. And all the time you build up your network of good guys.
The game is supurbly well balanced, abolutely vast, and enormous fun for at least 6mth of hard play. The major flaw in it is some of the other players, and you can't blame Bliz for making a game so good that it has attracted a core of knobs.
There is a reason that this game is so popular, and while it certainly isn't flawless, it's weaknesses are easily ignorable & still leave a supurb product behind. So if it doesn't have steller graphics or sound, it's just so easy to get fun out of it that I can't hold that against it.
It's not a big boys toy like a Ferrai, it's a laugh riot like a racing go-cart.
The race doesn't always go to the swiftest, nor the battle to the strongest, but that's the way to bet.
To the OP:
Your statement about the community of WoW is somewhat false. I have been playing WoW for over a year now and have had couple of 60's one of them is in a major endgame raiding guild. While, I have seen a few immature people in like the barrens(where anything goes) the general community, especially on my server, can be mature. At least the WoW community isnt NEARLY as bad as the Guildwars community where there are times when you go to the PvP arena and you see characters with blatantly racist names and making rude/vulgar/racist statements off a whim because they know they cant get in trouble for it.
"Without funk, is there hope for panda?" -Derivative of Ishmael
http://gravgaming.net
A site for pro and recreational gaming.
Damn it, i thought i had finished with this thread and then i get drawn back in again. Right where to start with you then Blue3000. No, i am not WoW's public defender, but as you say these are my opinions as everyone else has their own which makes them just as valid.
"What game are you playing"
Well, the main reason that i keep saying this is that my experiences in the most have been completely the opposite, so as far as i can see they seem to be playing a different game to me. It is more a metaphor (or however you spell that) than an actual, i realise that they are playing the same game, it is just that our experience differs so much. Does that make sense?
Quests
Well, whoopee for you on the quest front. To complete all the quests on both continents for all races is an amazing thing to do and your reputation must have been great. All i was saying is that as an average player, i still have loads of quests to do even into L60.
On the money front, if you had actually read my whole comment, it said that i made a couple of gold from the quest, but a shed load more from the items i picked up and sold at auction during the course of the quest. Hence my actual earnings from the quest are much, much greater than what i earn from the actual quest completion itself. In simple terms, 2g from quest + 30g from items aquired during the quest = 32g from quest altogether.
Items
You are way, way out on this one. Generally, only quest and dungeon items (from elite MOB's) are bound to you on pick up, the vast majority of items in the game can easily be picked up and sold.
Nearly every item is bound to you on use and this is what you may be getting confused with, that's all i can think of.
Battlegrounds
All of the instance battlegrounds are level ranked, so if you are L23 and you queue to go into the "Arathi battleground" you will be drawn into one with L20-29's, how plain can that be. As far as the honour system is concerned, i have no problems with it as it stands as anyone of too higher level killing too lower level character now gets nothing at all for it, so there is no incentive to "Gank" (see, things change).
Money (again)
Yes, epic items are madly expensive, but for the trouble involved in getting them it is no big surprise. You always have the option of going to get them yourself, but as one of my friends who does epics a lot was explaining the other day, he has only group qualified (their own epic etiquate) for one major item in his last 5 epic outings. At the end of the day, people can only sell items for what people are willing to pay for them and if they put them on auction for those prices and they sell, well all power to them.
I have always, on average got about 100-150g in my account and if i fall well below that i go out and earn some more. When i bought some new armour a couple of weeks ago i dropped to about 15g and it took me only three sessions of play and three days of auctions to make it back to 120g+, so money is not that hard to come by if you are willing to put in the work for it.
Finally (again)
Again, if you actually read my comment, i have never said that the game is pure and holy. Not everyone is going to like it and i am sure that i could quite easily pick away at every little niggle if i really tried (i am not going to by the way), but i comment on how i see things and correct comments i believe are wrong. That is my stance, pure and simple.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
the only part that is accurate is the community..Everything else is not accurate at all.. If many people believed WoW was this bad,there wouldn't be 5 million people playing the game now.. Personally I played every MMOG to date and WoW is the third best MMO I've ever played.. The 3 Best MMO's I've played are:
1)EQ for 3 yrs
2)Ultima Online, 2 years
3)WoW 1 year off and on,,only because they ran out of content for me..Doing a million MC,BWL runs just got pretty boring and repetitive..
One thing about WoW which everyone has to agree on is, leveling is fun.Its a game that u can solo to 60,and do group instances for loot and a challenge.. The UI system is easy and the best I've ever seen in MMO.. The abilities,spells,and skill system is one of the best I've seen since the original everquest.. Of course the graphics are a bit cartoony,but within the first few hours you'll get used to it and they adapt nicely..
Don't decide not to get the game based on this persons harsh review.. Try it for yourself and see if u like it.. I came from EQ2 a year ago..Now EQ2 had great grpahics but horrible gameplay..WoW has great gameplay and average graphics and look which game most people play.. If EQ2 was half as fun as WoW,I'd still be playing...
So it all comes down to fun for me and gameplay..I enjoyed playing WoW until the game got repetitive.. If there were alot more content,I'd still be playing now..
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
Did we play the same game? For that matter, what other types of areas were looking for? There's snowy lands, forests, swamps, deserts, burned and blasted areas... pretty much the same as anywhere in the real world.
I also notice you never mentioned instances and the areas you find there, which is an odd omission since they're probably the most important areas of the game. They have a pretty wide variety of scenarios there, some with some pretty outstanding artwork.
Cartoonish and pixelated?
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/439/auberdine6dv.jpg
That's a screenshot I took at the resolution I play at. The atmosphere in many areas of the game is outstanding. If you're missing shadows and such, you have something turned off.
There arent any vendors you can use to sell your own goods. And since there isnt any housing, one cant set up a shop or mall either. The AH or spamming is pretty much the only way to sell stuff.
...and what's wrong with that? The auction houses work better to sell things and are easier to use than any other setup I've run into in an MMO. Things are set up this way because it's simple and easy and accessible, not to mention more fun than running all over the place trying to find what you want like in the bazaar of EQ or the housing merchants of DaoC.
No decay means tons of peeps will simply never ever need your goods. Also since WoW allows multiple toons per server peeps simply will take their lvl 60 toon and farm a low lvl instance for gear for the next toon they make. Many times I ran across a lvl 10 rogue who already had gear in his bank for every level. Again, lack of relying on others (a staple of most mmorpgs) is the glaring issue here.
Items bind when equipped; once you put it on, it can't be traded. Crafters are highly valued at higher levels, and many extremely good items require a high skill (and can be sold for lots of money). There are a LOT of people playing in any case; you can sell things of any level and make money if you do it at a reasonable price.
4. Community - What can I say to some up WoW's community...hmm. Well worst mmorpg community comes quickly to mind. I have never in any mmorpg seen such an awful foul-mouthed community of children ever. If they arent discussing their mating rituals or getting drunk, they're arguing about something ridiculous. I cant recall how many thousands of times Ive seen some poor fella ask a simple quest like where is something and bam major flame war breaks out. Just try selling some item and watch out because 50+ peeps will give their opinion on whether your price is fair.
Most of the players in WoW seemingly are NOT mmorpg vets. They have little clue on how to act, conduct themselves, nor play their class properly. Many times Ive seen warriors with no shields trying to play the rogue. Or watched in horror as a warlock ran into the middle of a mob and dropped an AOE on them (then swore at priest cause he died). Its a really lucky day if you actually find a decent group to run all the way through an instance.
Try Guild Wars.
Turn off General Chat.
Poof... problem solved. Yes, there are some wankers. It's not MOST, but some servers are certainly better than others. The only difference between this and other MMO's is the openness of the chat system; you can talk to entire areas more easily than most other games. It sucks because of losers like you mentioned, but it's great when looking for groups. There's a good side and a bad side to it; use /ignore and you'll notice how fast the system starts to work better.
Guilds are like nothing Ive ever seen in other mmorpgs. In other mmorpgs, joining a guild is an important step in playing the game. It usually involves a recommendation from another member. It might require joining them for an instance or group hunt to test out your skills. It could require tribute of goods or gold. Some even have websites that require filling out applications as well. In WoW its a completely different animal which is a reflection of the lack of maturity of the community. Peeps will invite players to join their guild without even talking to them first. Others will spam looking for others to sign their charter and arent required to join after (for some reason many just want to start a guild but dont care if anyone joins it ???)
I've bounced around in several guilds. Some disbanded. Others were maybe 5 players playing 30 toons (all alts) so nobody was ever on. Most are full of selfish players that rarely group together to benefit each other.
This is absolutely no different than any other game. There are drive-by invite guilds, and there are more close-knit friends in guilds. People spam about signing their charter because it requires 10 people to create the guild in the first place, and they'll worry about filling it once its made.
My experience with the guild system here is that it's exactly the same as every other MMO I've played.
Some servers are designated as role playing. However very little RP goes on there. Again the maturity factor here really hurts. What WoW really needs is an Adults only server
Score - 1
I play on an RP server. There's roleplaying if you look for it, and there's not if you don't. Maturity is much higher on the RP servers when compared to most others, but don't mistake maturity for age; a lot of the wankers you're talking about are the same age as you and me, and aren't teenagers at all.
5. PvP - Two major glaring issues with PvP in my opinion. One, its way too fast. There really isnt much time to bother with strategy. Its just mash buttons and hope you win. After experiencing SWG where one might spend 30 minutes battling a bounty hunter, this WoW PvP leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Second, the Honor system doesnt work. I played on several PvP severs, they were all the same....GANKFEST. Many times I had to log off in disgust because of the ganking that would occur. Dont get me wrong, I have no problem getting attacked by an enemy if I quest or explore in neutral or enemy territory. However, when I continually getting slain by a lvl 60 rogue and Im only 12, well thats just stupid. The Honor system is supposed to penalize someone into NOT attacking such lower level players.
My last night playing on a PvP server went like this....I was a lvl 14 paladin. I was in Westfall trying to quest. A swarm of horde were there doing some major griefing. They kept killing the quest giver I needed to turn in my quest for the pocketwatch and collecting oats. This horde literally just sat there and killed him anytime he spawned.
Other horde players camped the graveyard and would gank anyone reviving. Or they would camp the griphon so we couldnt fly out. Many stood in the entrance to DM so no alliance could approach to get in.
This went on for 5 days. Finally I gave up and moved on to a so-called Role-Playing server.
The last night you played on the PvP server they were ganking the quest giver, and it went on for 5 days. Which was it? The last night, or for 5 days?
Don't play on a PvP server. They're well known for being a gankfest; you'd know that by your experience in UO and other open-pvp games.
Again, it's odd that you talk about PvP but never even mention the battlegrounds. If you think there's no strategy to PvP, you've never done it and you've never fought in a battleground.
Score - 1
6. Animations / emotes - Combat animations really are quite awful in WoW. I get really bored watching my paladin doing the same slash over and over and over and over and over again. Oh wait, he just did a different slash for a critical hit, neat. Oh here we go again, slash over and over and over bleh. Emotes, like the community are simplistic and uninspiring. After seeing the same naked elf dance in IF a few thousand times you get tired of them. Absolutely the worst Ive ever seen in a mmorpg.
Score - 1
...again, did we play the same game? There are a lot of emotes, every race and gender has different ones, and they're fluid and generally well done.
You also use the worst class example in a paladin, where auto-attack is their core melee base. Pick a class that uses abilities often if you want something like that; every ability uses its own animation.
7. Game Economy - In short, a total mess. Because of the 5+ million players, gold farmers have set up shop in the game. Prices have skyrocketed since launch day. And because prices for items have gotten so high, many players are almost forced to buy gold from the very source of the problem (how ironic) Its quite common to see a blue item sword with average dps selling for 150g ouch. At launch even epics didnt go above 100g, now they sell for 2000g.
Yes, the economy is fairly messed up... but the little secret of those high priced blues and purples is that you don't have to buy them. Go get them yourself; you'll get better items doing the instances you never mentioned than buying items you don't want or can't afford from the AH you don't like.
8. Sound - Basically non-existent. Besides the music you hear upon entering SW or the occasional grunt while swing your sword, its just silent. If you crank the volume you might notice your mail armor making a clinking sound while you walk. Otherwise, its obvious Blizzard cared very little for doing anything innovative here.
Score - 1
Wow man... just wow. You're really just making this up now.
Go stand on the boat once. You hear the echo of wood from the planks below, the creak of the masts in the wind and the sound of the surf. The music is outstanding and varied.
I dare anyone to compare the sound in WoW to another MMO and not come out saying it's the best of the bunch in this department. I love good sound in a game, and there is really no contest here.
Total score 33, Rating - 3.3 / 10
But you played to 60, right? And played on a bunch of different servers, PvP and RP and otherwise, right?
The average playtime of a level 60 character is about 21 days. And you had a bunch of alts.
I just don't get how a game that bad would interest you up to level 60. If I don't like a game, I stop playing it after a couple hours tops.
If you don't like it, that's fine... to each his own. But I am REALLY tired of people who do or supposedly do have high level characters in ANY MMO coming back later and then talking about how awful the game is. How can you not recommend a game that gave you enough enjoyment to put that kind of time into a character?
You...are my hero! I agree TOTALLY with everything you just said.
WoW imo is the best MMO out there. Very little grind. Oh sure the graphics aren't this big heaping mass of details and sh*t like that but that's because it's WARCRAFT. If they made it look like EQ2 or something where everything looked like it'd be serious then it wouldn't feel more like Warcraft.
Yes the community is really bad. Apart from that though the game is alright.
that is a bad comparison... if a teacher was giving out those kinda marks chances are the student deserved them and the teacher would be doing that kid no favours by giving him better marks to make him feel better... he would just be passing on the problem to someone else to deal with. And if the problem got passed on enough you could end up with a real life homer simpson working in a nuc plant... now that is a pleasent thought is it not?
while i myself would not give this game that low of a mark( prob 5 or 6 due to it not having anything really new in the game and just a next gen clone of all the others that came before) saying he is biased is well redundent since everyone has some biased thats why when researching something you try to find someone that writes a good and a bad review to get both sides of the story. after reading his review i understand why he gave it the marks he did I might not agree but i see where he is comming from.
WOW does what it does well its just for those of us that have been playing these games for a few years before WOW came out.... there is nothing really different here that is not in all the others already and that we have not grown bored of.