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Slow Regen Rates?
reavo
Member Posts: 2,173
DAoC is absolutely one of my favorite if not my favorite of all games. But I have a question. Am I the only one who is driven crazy by the regen rate on stats? I go nuts sitting waiting for my mana to go back up! Even with a bard in my group at times I have to quit because I get so frustrated.
I've always thought that if they just sped up the regen rates it would change the game in more positive ways than one. First off it would be faster and more exciting. Second, I think more people would roll new characters and fill the PvE areas again because they wouldn't have to sit so long. This would give the new players more people to play with. And third soloing wouldn't be so bad (cuz we all gotta solo occasionally).
I totally understand how maybe the regen rate might be good for the PvP areas. But if that's the case, just speed it up in the PvE areas at least.
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Guild Wars - Rorick Aurlith E/Mo pumped up with the best armor and weapon, has all his skills, and runes. PvP King!
Dark Age of Camelot - Leaton 50 Vampiir - Lamorak - Guild: Magic and Mayhem!
I do not find regen rates to be that bad. But then again I am used to 4+ years of a penality for going below 50% in power.
How it works on my animist is I cast until I am below 50% and then use MCL. Then cast more until I have about 25% power. By the time the shrooms die I am at full power if I do not need to pull and 75% if I am pulling or need to heal my shrooms. So 2 min can seem like a life time. With crack or bard song I can't say I have ever really run out of power.
But yes when you are trying to level and the only thing keeping you from going again is a 2 min wait it can get very annoying.
It would be good for new players. And I would love to see the populations grow again. This game is like an old friend to me.
As of game version 1.79 :
Power And Health Regeneration Rate Change
- We have increased the Health and Power regeneration rates at lower levels, to make leveling a more enjoyable experience for everyone. The increase is significant at lower levels and slowly rises back to its current state as you level your character.
- The penalty on power regeneration when power is below 50% has been removed.
So, they've already done it, you just won't notice it as much on higher level characters
.
http://camelotmonkey.com/showchars.php?user=arghos
okay, but it sure doesn't seem like it.
i have rerolled characters and quit because it was too slow.
as much as i'm sure some want to deny it, they've got to compete with the newer games who's stats rise faster. people just get bored.
Look, I don't mean to sound derogatory, but it's just that I spend WAAAAAY more time sitting in this game than fighting. And sitting just ain't fun. And like I said, I want this game to survive. I love this game.
Not exactly true. It is a way to balance the game out. Lets not even talk about RvR but stick with PvE. If I had unlimitted power then I could put down shrooms in an area and level with no problems. There would be no down time for me at all. I would say that I would be able to reduce my leveling time by at least 50% if I could have unlimited power. Well the problem with this is that it makes me almost unkillable. If I stick with oranges and below I would never die regardless of the camp size. The only thing that keeps me somewhat balanced and undercontrol if the limit on my power pool and how long it takes for it to regenerate.
Just think about a tank that had infinite health and end. That would also be a non-stop killing machine. Just look at a vamp sometime that speced correctly. You would never need to stop. The difference here is that the vamp is meant to solo, but the other classes are meant to group.
I know you are not saying for these things to never go down, but if your argument is that the only reason it exists is to make you sit in front of the computer longer and that is a bad thing, then this is the logical consequence. You simply have no reduction in power or anything else. That would be the fastest way to kill things and you would not have any pesky downtime. Because if sitting isn't fun and we want constant fun then removing any need to sit would generate the most fun, right?
So power pools and regen rates are there to encourage grouping, give certain classes a reason to exist, and to balance out the PvE games. This means it is not there just to make you sit. The question is then what is the appropriate level of regen rates?
I play mostly casters and with the recent changes I spend more time killing than I do sitting. With MCL now I spend very little time sitting. If I can get bard song I am almost unstopable. With PF I am unstopable.
I do not think downtime is one thing that keeps the game from growing. This does not mean that rates should not be adjusted for casters. But what it does mean is that it is not a simple issue because it has impact on other PvE areas of the game that need to be looked at before tampering with regen rates. Further that the regen rates increased again still might not make it as fast as you want.
Prior to all the recent expansions, back before TOA, I had played just about every class in DAOC in Hib and several in Mid and Alb as well.
I never had a problem with regen times once realm ranks and realm abilities were implemented. ESPECIALLY power!
Go play in the battlegrounds a bit and get a few realm points. MCL and Raging Power and other boosts you can get with realm ranks make regen times negligable and very manageable unless you are just absolutely wasteful with your power pool..
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Not exactly true. It is a way to balance the game out. Lets not even talk about RvR but stick with PvE. If I had unlimitted power then I could put down shrooms in an area and level with no problems. There would be no down time for me at all. I would say that I would be able to reduce my leveling time by at least 50% if I could have unlimited power. Well the problem with this is that it makes me almost unkillable. If I stick with oranges and below I would never die regardless of the camp size. The only thing that keeps me somewhat balanced and undercontrol if the limit on my power pool and how long it takes for it to regenerate.
Just think about a tank that had infinite health and end. That would also be a non-stop killing machine. Just look at a vamp sometime that speced correctly. You would never need to stop. The difference here is that the vamp is meant to solo, but the other classes are meant to group.
I know you are not saying for these things to never go down, but if your argument is that the only reason it exists is to make you sit in front of the computer longer and that is a bad thing, then this is the logical consequence. You simply have no reduction in power or anything else. That would be the fastest way to kill things and you would not have any pesky downtime. Because if sitting isn't fun and we want constant fun then removing any need to sit would generate the most fun, right?
So power pools and regen rates are there to encourage grouping, give certain classes a reason to exist, and to balance out the PvE games. This means it is not there just to make you sit. The question is then what is the appropriate level of regen rates?
I play mostly casters and with the recent changes I spend more time killing than I do sitting. With MCL now I spend very little time sitting. If I can get bard song I am almost unstopable. With PF I am unstopable.
I do not think downtime is one thing that keeps the game from growing. This does not mean that rates should not be adjusted for casters. But what it does mean is that it is not a simple issue because it has impact on other PvE areas of the game that need to be looked at before tampering with regen rates. Further that the regen rates increased again still might not make it as fast as you want.
I'm not talking about infinite power, health, or endurance. And if you're in combat I understand that the stats shouldn't go up at the same rate. I'm just talking about the downtime. You know when combat is over.
I'll give you some practical cases too. I've talked 8 people at work into downloading the trial and give Camelot a try. 6 out of those 8 told me it just went too slow and there was no one to play with in the newb zones.
Of the other two one is still playing but I had two accounts so I gave him the one that he can /level on to talk him into it. The others said that if it didn't go so slow and they got to move around more and play with others they would have stayed.
I think that a lot of people don't reroll new characters because of the slowness. I know I get bored. I just thought I'd give a real life perspective.
Two posts up you'll see I gave you advice for speeding that up once you hit level 15.
Define "too slow"? I have played a total of 10 days. I have 3 characters. 11, 13 and 20... I play less than 3 hours a night (I think my average is about 2.5 now). Power regen doesn't really start to become a problem until around level 15, at which time you can earn realm points in the BG's and get several boosts from realm rewards that make the power regen issue a non-issue. Stamina regen for melee classes has ALWAYS been a non issue. Are they sitting between fights? Stamina regens completely.... from 0... in seconds if you are sitting (C key by default). The only line that regens 'slowly' is health and power. Health can be mitigated using similar method to what I mentioned about Power.
I do recall 'new' characters.
1) I highly recommend that if you're starting the game as a new player that you start on Gareth. It's highly populated and has TONS of 'new' players. Also on the 'classic' servers (Gareth is a 'classic') you can't use /level to get to 20 so everyone's ALTS are levelling as well so you have even MORE people to group with. The 'newbie' areas are down right crowded on gareth.
2) I do know exactly what it's like to start a new character. I'm an old player returning but I don't have my old account any longer. So I had to start from scratch with a new character and I decided to start on Gareth.
10 days later I have a level 20, level 11 and a level 13 on one of the other classic servers as well. I have a ball every single time I log in. I honestly DONT see what you're complaining about. My characters are a Skald, Hunter and a Minstrel. I haven't tried a caster since coming back but my experiences with the skald (who does use power) show me that the caster situation is probably pretty much similar to what it was when I played of old. Which is to say: Not much of a problem. I don't have a caster because, frankly, I just have never enjoyed playing casters, in any MMO... I am a 'in your face' kind of player. I never got into standing back and casting spells.
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Hi Elnator. I thought this was a good idea. I forgot all about the newbie battle grounds. Well, I thought it was a good idea until I went into the Battlegrounds tonight to check it out. I was really excited because I could go tell my friends at work who said it was slow to try again. I play on Merlin and when I did a /who in the Battleground to do a headcount I found only me in there.
Just out of curiosity I took a level 11, 17, and 28 characters I had into the other ones. They were empty to except for Braemar had one other player. I don't think my friends want to play on the classic servers either. They wanted to play the whole game, Atlantis and all since it comes in the box set.
Oh well. Thanks for the suggestion though.
You won't find folks in the 'normal server' battlegrounds till level 20 because of the /level command.
I HIGHLY recommend anyone starting a new toon to play on "Classic" servers. Because the battlegrounds and lowbie/newbie areas WILL be very vacant on the 'normal' servers because of the /level command which lets 50's create alts at level 20 instantly. Nice for them, sucks for new players. That command is disabled on the 'classic' servers.
Only difference between a classic server and a 'normal' server is:
1) No TOA (trust me, you WONT miss it). It's EQ style Raid content only 12+ hours to do 1 raid etc... icky.
2) No /Level command YAY!!!!
3) CONC buffs the caster must remain in the group and be within 5000 meters of the group for them to remain in effect. This prevents most of the 'botting' that is so rediculous on the 'normal' servers.
Other than that the "Classic" servers are identical to the normal ones. Also, because they don't have TOA they tend to have a more 'casual' player base so RVR is a lot more fun and it's easier to find groups etec.
Gareth, by the way, is the best of the "classic" servers as it has the highest pop.
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[quote]Originally posted by Elnator
[b][quote]Originally posted by reavo
You won't find folks in the 'normal server' battlegrounds till level 20 because of the /level command.
I HIGHLY recommend anyone starting a new toon to play on "Classic" servers. Because the battlegrounds and lowbie/newbie areas WILL be very vacant on the 'normal' servers because of the /level command which lets 50's create alts at level 20 instantly. Nice for them, sucks for new players. That command is disabled on the 'classic' servers.
[/b][/quote]
For a new player I do think the Classic servers are the place to start. This is only because they are the most populated servers. After that I disagree.
1. The Classic servers are popular more because they are new than anything else.
2. Even if the level command was not added, people stopped playing/grouping low level characters years ago on the regular server. Why? Because it was not fun having to spend 50 more days leveling a toon. So you picked the fastest way possible. This involved being powerlevled by guild/alliance/friends/bots. What killed the low level game on those servers was the length of time to level and then ToA chasing off casual players. /Level actually increased the number of toons playing and the BG action because you now could make lots of level 20's. But the damage was already done.
In short the reason that you find action in the pre 20 areas on the Classic servers is simply because they are new which means they have the most population. Second because leveling no longer takes forever so people won't have a problem rolling a new toon and leveling it from level 1.
My point is that /level is a good command and is not the bad guy here. In fact I won't play on the classic servers because it does not have the /level. Why start over on a game I already have and be in a worse starting position?
I tried DAoC a few months ago and just couldn't stand the downtime.
I understand it's one of their way to balance the game but I just don't care, they should have thought of something better where you actually act.
Spending longer periods of time resting than fighting just don't cut it.
I hate wasting my time while I waste time, it reminds me that I am wasting my time.
I want to have FUN right from the start.
Too bad because it looked like an interesting game from the outside.
I was around when /level first went in. I had several 50's at the time and, initially, I loved the /level command.
But I had some friends who were just joining the game and they immediately told me about the absolute lack of players to group with in the lower level dungeons, etc... What was odd was that they had no complaints about this till the /level patch went in. After the /level patch went in they clearly noticed a huge difference in the number of folks they had to hunt with (they were 16 when the /level command went in).
They said, and I quote:
BG went empty overnight!
Nobody is in the dungeons!
Nobody is making level 1-20 gear unless you beg anymore!
Personally as a former 50 I know why 50's love /level. But it's a simple fact that it DOES reduce the number of people that new players have to group with. Yes, a lot of players levelling an alt didn't bother grouping but many did. I was one of them. I love to group at lower levels because it's just plain more fun than solo
Playing on the classic servers I have found that MOST of the players I'm playing with have 50 mains but are levelling up an alt and we group a lot anyway. I don't have a 50 alt since my old account is, as I've mentioned, long gone. So I'm experiencing the SAME gameplay that a truely new player would. And I tried both a classic and a regular server. I was sick of the regular server within just a couple hours and have even deleted the toon I used. The classic server, however, is much more fun, with more people on it and, imo, a slightly friendlier atmosphere. (Perhaps because of the higher concentration of more 'casual' players)
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I'm going to have to side with Reavo on this one. I tried DAoC and was pretty excited about it too. But it was slow. The regen rates were horrible compared to the newer games out there. It's a shame too because from what I saw it looked as though it could be fun. The classes are well thought out and interesting, the scenery was magnificent.
But I spent a lot of time sitting. And it just wasn't fun just sitting there watching my stat bar. Sitting is okay for no longer than 30 seconds. And definitely not more than a minute. And I was sitting somtimes over 2 minutes just to get my health and mana back up. And like Reavo said, I can see the stats not rising fast while in combat, but once your out of combat and medding, that's a different story.
Another complaint I had was there was so much PvE content in the new zones but nobody there. I'm not a game developer but it seems like Mythic has to know this is going on and should put their genius together to figure out a way to get people playing over there again.
As for the classical servers... As a new player who likes PvE, I want to be on an Atlantis server. I want to see that content. I play 80% PvE and 20% PvP. So that's why having the places to explore is important.
I hope they figure something out. Because I would love to come back and try again.
=============================
It all seems so stupid
It makes me want to give up
But why should I give up
When it all seems so stupid
TOA is strictly RAID content. You will never go there with less than a full battlegroup. It's not designed even for a standard group. A standard group will *DIE* there. *alot*.
TOA is for those who have 8-12 hours (literally) to play in a single session. It's not for casual players *at all*. They are supposedly working to change that but I honestly don't see how they can do that and keep the rewards as powerful as they are.
The "Classic" servers have every single PVE aspect that the 'normal' ones do except for the TOA expansion which, as I said, is strictly RAID content. So if you want to be able to PVE ***ANY*** of the servers will provide that. If you want to RAID Then the normal servers are best for you because the TOA expansion is all about raiding. Mind you, there are plenty of places to raid on the 'classic' server as well, but they don't unbalance RVR like TOA does with it's god-mode items and master levels.
Something to remember about DAOC is that it's single best "endgame" feature (for those who hit 50) is RVR. *most* players of DAOC want to RVR most of the time. Some don't and they go raiding, etc. But the real endgame of DAOC is *RVR* and has always been stated as such. Mythic provides all those pve areas so you have a wide variety of things to do. But the vast majority of the player base is in the BattleGrounds or levelling up in Task Dungeons and Instanced Dungeons or in the Frontiers once they hit 50.
Personally, playing on Gareth, I have YET to find an area that is "empty".... so it's possible that the phenomena you're experiencing is limited to the 'normal' servers. Remember that the 'normal' servers are more prone to 'botting' since there's no range limits on buffs. So people can solo extremely efficiently due to this. On the classic servers your bot has to be with you, so most folks don't bother with bots unless there's nobody on to hunt with.
On the classic servers I have levelled 3 toons
11, 13 and now 24
In under 14 days of time. My 14 day trial would have expired this Saturday, Dec 3rd, if I hadn't already purchased the game. In the 13 days I've played I have leveled those 3 toons to where you see and I also played a toon on my old server, Iseult, for about 2 days before I realized just how badly I hated the 'normal' servers.
You are right... those servers feel empty. (Pretty much because they are
) But on Gareth? I'm having an absolute ball.
And I have never had to sit on my 'ass' as you say, for more than 30-40 seconds to heal up or get power or get stamina. What level are you that it's taking a full 2 minutes?
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I like raid content. That's why it scares me that you say only one server type has enough population to have fun anymore. I want to go on a ToA raid. I hope they do fix it so that the ToA server populations go back up. I will keep an eye out to see if they do.
=============================
It all seems so stupid
It makes me want to give up
But why should I give up
When it all seems so stupid
I didn't say "ass". I try to use more engaging language from my lexicon.
And it was taking me up to two minutes. I clicked the "clock" button on the shortcut bar and timed it. Definitely longer than 40 secs when my mana was all the way down.
Don't make me open up another trial account and record it using FRAPS. I've got the full version of FRAPS too, so I can sit and record as long as it takes. lol.
=============================
It all seems so stupid
It makes me want to give up
But why should I give up
When it all seems so stupid
[quote]Originally posted by kimmar
Elnator, what you're describing is the death of this game. Dont' do that, you're scaring me. You're saying that there is only one server type that you can play on and have a reasonable population? I like raid content. That's why it scares me that you say only one server type has enough population to have fun anymore. I want to go on a ToA raid. I hope they do fix it so that the ToA server populations go back up. I will keep an eye out to see if they do. [/b][/quote]
There are massive changes happening to ToA. This will help to bring some population back to those servers. It is not as though there are not people playing on the regular servers. I do. The only way I will switch servers is if I switch games. No reason to start over on the same game!
There are constant ToA raids going on. There are 9 ML raids scheduled by my alliance over the next 2 1/2 weeks.
The issue you will find with the regular servers is lack of a low level population and lack of new players. Almost all of the players you will run into will be level 20+ and have been playing the game for awhile.
Those servers have been going for 4+ years. This means the population is spread out all over. They clustered these servers so say at peak hours there will be 2500 people on. It is not equally distrbuted, but lets pretend it is. This means around 833 people per realm. You might have 100 in NF, and another 150 in the different BGs. Recently in the 35-40 BG I have seen 40+ people just in that one. The other 550-600 are spread out leveling, craftings, doing ToA, farming, etc. The game is just simply huge and since there are well established guilds/alliances and so much to do it can give them an empty feeling.
When you walk into the Capitals you will encounter a lot of people and many there will be asking for a group.
Just understand that pre level 20 might be a little lonely on the regular servers. But once you hit 20 and go to the BGs, or get into a guild things will get a lot better.
No, I said only one kind of server is fun for a casual player. I said that there are a few "normal" servers with high population the others are moderate to low population. It's an old game and most "Casual" players have moved over to the "classic" servers because they cannot compete on the "normal" servers because of TOA.
Those that enjoy TOA are still playing but DAOC is 4 years old. The "normal" servers are populated, primarily, by older players who have been playing for a long time. IE: Most of them are 50th already. There aren't a lot of low level players there. And because of the /level command new players tend to go to the "Classic" servers because it's easier for them to find people their level on those servers since there's no /level command.
The high end game on the 'normal' servers is very alive and doing very well from what I understand. But you have to remember that due to TOA the majority of the population of those servers are players who have a LOT of time on their hands. "Powergamers", if you will. Due to that they're going to mostly be high level. They're also going to take full advantage of the /level command to skip the first 20 levels.
So if you never got to level 20+ of COURSE the game will seem empty because there just aren't very many low level players. Even on the 2000+ pop servers you won't see many folks under level 20 on a normal server. On classics, however, there are several things going for a new player:
1) As others said, they are fairly new so there are a lot of people still playing the game and working their way up in level.
2) They cater more to the 'casual player' because TOA isn't installed on them. This has a side affect of meaning that most people who WANT to be on those servers are casual players, thus they level slower, thus meaning that it will generally take folks on the 'classic' servers a bit longer than folks who play on the 'normal' servers to hit 50. Face it: If I played 10 hours a day I'd hit 50 a lot faster than someone who plays 2 hours a day... roughly 5 times faster.
3) Normal servers have no /level command. Thus even when people do reach 50, if they start an alt they can't just skip the first 20 levels. Thus new players have a LOT more people to play with on the classic servers till level 20.
At level 20 the game gets REALLY crowded, even on the 'classic' servers you'll find FAR more people in the 20+ areas than down below (mainly because 1-20 goes by *very* quickly while it slows down a bit after that). I hit 24 completely by accident actually... My toon that's 24 took 14 days to get there. I never once spent a night actually "trying" to get XP. I just did any quests I ran across in my travels and spent the rest of my time in the BattleGrounds. In about 20 hours I was level 24 going 'holy cow that was quick!" (about 10 days of play time for me).
I suspect that if you gave a 'normal' server a chance you'd find that the game gets much more populated up in the 20's and 30's. (It really doesn't take long to get there). You just wont be able to get RVR points till Thidranki since the lower level BG's will probably be quite empty... I'd suggest checking them at about 2100 - 2400 Eastern time (US). That is typically when the most players are online. If there is going to be action in the BG's on a 'normal' server that's when it would most likely be most active.
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I have to throw something in here too. It is true that the numbers of new players on the normal servers has dropped dramatically. It has not ceased however. In the last month alone my guild has recruited at least 5-6 people who are totally new to the game. And although we're a guild of primarily vets that have one or more 50s, and do a lot of high-end gaming, we nonetheless do make an effort to groups with lower-level members, be it dragging them along on some of our high-level stuff and getting them killed alot (don't knock it, they still have fun and usually get a level or two in the process
) or we group with them on alts. We also make it a point to answer questions, make sure our newer people have decent gear and we offer advice on areas to hunt in and in tactics on how to play a character.
Picking the right guild is essential for starting out on the normal servers. Some, like our's, can be regarded as "noob-friendly" and will, while not holding your hand the whole time, try to make the lower levels less painful for new players. Others are definitely NOT noob-friendly and will leave a lower level to fend for themselves if they'll even accept them into the guild at all. Part of our recruting strategy is to have a constant stream of new players so that during those times that the big folks are busy with something we're not taking the lil guys along on, they'll be able to find someone within the guild to hang out with.
Another thing we place high priority on is getting good people first, and if they happen to be good players also, so much the better. This makes for a more relaxed, fun gaming experience if you don't have people fighting and cussing each other out in guild chat all the time. We try to have fun and not take the game too seriously. I'm sure we're not the only guild out there that thinks this way.
So choose a guild carefully, shop around and ask people who've been around a while what guilds will suit your needs. I've directed lots of people who I didn't feel were looking for what my guild has to offer towards guilds that would be more suited to their playstyle, and we've had many people referred to us from other guilds. We're all in competition for members, but I think for most of us we'd rather lose a recruit to a guild where they'll be happy than put in a lot of time and effort with a player who'll wind up leaving later because we're not what they're looking for.
Be selective; ask around; having guildmates to level with makes the downtime less...and more enjoyable when there is some
.
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