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Certainly hope it won't be another WoW clone.
OrigigiNomad
Member Posts: 91
The title says it all. Why am I saying this? Because in the Newsletter the CEO answered to the question "Which MMORPGs would you recommend?" with "WoW, DAOC and CoH". DAOC is their game, CoH is a thing for itself but saying WoW shows he likes that game and him being the lead designer (he made the core design for the game) brings the possibilty of cloning some stuff from WoW...
Although GW has a lot to say about this, I'm not sure if they'll be against cloning since WoW met such a success. I'd be VERY dissapointed to see another clone on such a great fantasy world. Warhamer has the biggest potential for a MMORPG out there, in my opinion. I even tried collecting the miniatures but I didn't have the patience needed (I finished only 1 dwarf warrior completely).
Please don't make this game a WoW clone, you don't need that.
Comments
If you exclude a few keys mistakes, WoW would be awesome. So I have no troubles with folks who consider WoW highly, many things they do right.
It would be a little more disturbing if they would says something like: Horizons, Eve and SoR!
I don't mean those games are not good, but well...they aint exactly the first games I would recommend.
WoW is "to easy", is raid oriented, have no group/solo distinction (why would someone group or solo rather than do the other, someone must have reasons for both if you claim to have a strong grouping/soloing system, if nobody would rather be soloing than grouping, than your solo system lack, me I rather group than solo but if you have no happy soloers(which folks may believe I am at moments, yet I ain't really a soloer) then you know your solo system lack). Beside that, WoW is a very strong start.
Warhammer may be a clone of DAoC (which I fear), but it wont be a clone of WoW, since WoW is the bastard son of EQ and DAoC 1 night fun. If they take strong elements from WoW, that is great, WoW have many strong points. I really hope they will bring the buffing system from DAoC, which is, in my opinion, the nicest thing I experience in DAoC...the buffing system was georgous, simply, efficient, nice, not a hassle and FUN. But again, someone could state that Warhammer buffs doesn't work that way...I don't think Games Workshop make a focus of the buffing system inside Warhammer, thereby I would not see it as a betrayal to take the superior buffing system from DAoC (not the spells, the buffing system, since for the spells, now it would be an awful betrayal, Warhammer magic is built in a way, with a logic behind it).
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
WoW is a shallow game. Of course you may like it but the truth is, and you can't deny it, that it's boring and a 1 way street. GRIND to 60, then spend few hours each day in MC or wherever to get some stupid epic gear... and what then? You can try pvp but it's all too automated, there's nothing you can do to impact the world. It's like the dev team is guiding you through the game... As I said, some people might like that. But from my WoW experience I spent half of my playing time frustrating over monster drops and I was bored half of the time.
EDIT: I don't see why's wow 2nd generation? What's new in the game when you look at EQ, DAOC and other games previous to wow? Nothing...
I certainly hope that Warhammer doesn't become another clone. We have too many of those. We need some breakthroughs (which aren't hard to make but devs care only about the money). Warhammer story is too good, too in-depth, too old, too classic to become another boring clone.
I hate to say it, but a "WoW clone" is difficult to avoid to some degree, simply because WoW is a "clone" of many of the previous games that were on the market, (or first generation games, as one poster referanced it nicely) WoW is not the first game to do many, if not almost all of the things it has done. The only thing I see in WoW I have not seen in a game before is during the travel scenes, you see actual players, and happenings, not just terrain, Impressive, but not the end all be all.
So no matter what this game "looks" or "Feels" like, it will be it's own game. If it's too much like a game, you like, and it disappoints you, go play that other game. If it's too much like a game you don't like, don't play it either. But you are not going to see a game that is COMPLETELY different from anything on the market, because that would require a game that either isn't an MMO, or some advance in technology that we do not have yet....i.e. virtual reality. So stop hoping for something "completely different" becuase it's not going to happen.
I have been somewhat disappointed in WoW because my best friend said, "It's so much better than everything else." And it's not. Yes, it has some really great things, but it's not completely different, or so much better. It just has what he is wanting in a game. I play another game that has more what I want, and I play WoW when I want to play a game with my friend. I don't hold it against WoW because in my opinion, they're not the "Best game ever" like some people claim, It's fun, and when I want to play it, I play it. I will play Warhammer, becuase I know the story, I can make up my own Bio, and that's what I enjoy about my games, making up my own background, Roleplaying my own role, and being the "Hero" of my story. I don't enjoy grinding out the best character, and killing other players, it's just not my thing.
I hope we all find the game we're looking for, but don't ask a game to be something it cannot be, and that is "Not a clone." or "Completely different." Because in a buisness like MMO's, "cloning" is the only way to expand on the MMO field. Excellerate certain things past where they are now, by adding newer techniques.
About the generation of MMO...
EQ, EQ2 and WoW are all second generation MMO...someone could argue that WoW or CoH is a 2.5 generation, Vanguard may claim they will be a 3rd generation (that remains to be seen).
Many persons, myself included, believe EQ was the first "commercialised" 2nd generation MMO (the 3D thing make it apart from Meridian or Ultima).
But everything is open to debate. As to WoW, it is a good game and it reach a broad audience, but it is not even on the TOP 10 games, so definitely not the "best", Diablo would come before WoW and Blizzard doesn't have 2 titles in the top 10 if they even have 1.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
What top 10?
StarCraft will make it on any list of greatest games of all time. It is one of the top selling games and you can still find it in stock in almost ANY game store, despite it is going on it's 9th year soon.
Diablo and Diablo 2 sold ALOT of copies too. It makes alot of magazine top 10 lists.
StarCraft is probably the most popular RTS of all time (correct me if I'm mistaken... I see the numbers of sales and I have yet to see another RTS top this).
However, I am not here to be a WOW fanboi. While I play WOW, I am greatly looking foward to this game, because I just beat Dawn of War and I suddenly ahave a taste for Warhammer
Yes, DoW gives you a good idea what you might expect from Warhammer games.
Dark Lord, I'm afraid I have to agree with you. But it's never too late to hope. I just don't like to see a good story as warhammer spent on a stupid game which will be something like wow. Look, someone might like wow but as I said already it's too shallow, easy, and blizzard is simply guiding you through it afraid if you get stuck somewhere they'll loose you as a customer. I mean just check that sleezy peon trick they do when you try to cancel your account. Get a grip, blizzard.
WoW is all about grinding and nothing more. Grind to level 60 (sure there are some "fun" quests and otehr things to distract you but when you look at it, it's just grinding). Then when you get to 60 you grind til you get your epic gear and legendary weapon (sure there's a lot of dungeons and fancy monsters but it's all grinding til you get the top equipment). What's left? Pvp? Lol, you mean honour farming til you get the pvp epic set? Please... True, you can pvp for fun (which is the brightest point of the game) but what will you achieve by that? Temporary fun, and you pay 15 dollars monthly for that. How about raiding towns (racial leaders, there's only so many towns with them, what about the rest)? Why that's just an extension of PvP grinding... Someone might ask: What if I have a couple of friends and we want to raid some smaller horde village with no racial leader? I'd say lol, have a good time (which he wont) because there's nothing to achieve by that. He might have fun for a while but at the end there's no point because there's no town retake system (amongs other). If I want this kind of action I'll get a game and play it in multiplayer with some friends.
And please don't tell me to stop whining because that was the main moto of all those stupid "powerplayers" in wow. All I'm trying to do is point out some stuff.
Concerning you saying it can't be done without it being a partial or complete clone, I say it's not true. If they changed what I stated above for just a 1 degree to left or right it'd be awesome.
And what MMO is not "all about grinding"? You start with lvl 1 and you end at lvl x. Path is the same... Buff your char, get new skills, new weapons, armour... Only differenc is that some game are fun "grinding" and doing quests... Other suck. Take a look at L2. Suck big time, boring. Yeah it's fun when you get to lvl x but path to that is killing me.
WoW has great story, it has best quests I've ever seen. Graphics are not shocking... Take a look at the single model... Uber low poly. But when you see whole picture, everything put togather it's amazing.
I loved old SWG... It was so complex... And I love WoW even so it is simple. WoW has it all... Coul;d be better... But it's the best thing at this time.
World of Warcraft is probably the greatest MMORPG out right now. The only thing that really gets on my nerves is the Battlegrounds and the lack of PVP or lack of encouragement of PVP outside of Battlegrounds. Can you capture x city and hold it until alliance comes and reclaims it, or use it as an outpost to launch another attack on another neighboring city? No.
Speaking of cities, there are only 6 in the entire world and the rest are tiny villages spread out along it. Whats up with that?
EDIT: Whoa... am I flaming my own MMORPG?
It was quite noticable that DAoC poached a few ideas back from WoW; tooltip being one of the more obvious ones.
I would suspect that Mythic will continue to look at the competition (as well as the DAoC fanbase) for anything they can usefully use.
One of the more interesting questions is: will Warhammer online have the look of WoW?
Personally I hope they stick to DAoC type graphics rather than the more stylish and garish ones of WoW; after all Warhammer world is dark, not cartoony.
While I agree that I hope the graphics are not cartoony, (Which I don't believe they will be) Some things must be somewhat cartoonish, due to it's sheer nature. I.E. Goblins, which have always been cartoony, Halflings, Must be cartoony, after all their primary weapon is a slingshot attached to a pot of stew!!!
But From the way Games Workshop is moving Warhammer into being less cartoon, and more dark and surreal. so I imagine GW is just as excited about Mythic doing W.A.R. as Mythic is.
The first (and only that I can think of) game that is not "all about grinding" I would point to is the formentioned SWG. Before the Holocron Craze, once you decided on a profession, you no longer grinded anything, it was all about what you could do in the game. Problem with SWG was at that time they were too limited on things to do. And the fans screamed, "how do I become a Jedi." Well, instead of offering the fans more things to do that might give them a hint on how to become a jedi, they gave them how to become a jedi. Instead of saying "go find Holocrons, and that will tell you how to be a jedi." they should have said "here are some fun new quests that are for each different profession." and if someone were to do them all, and master all of the professions in the process they would find their path to jedi all on their own, if they didn't prefer to do it, they would never know.
Having content and things to do, are how you divert from being a "Grind" game. The biggest trick is to not make all those things to do "End game" level. Have some random things to do before you get there. If you missed them, you can go back and do them when you're at "End game" level, but they will just be easier. Most gamers only want to be the best, but if they find other things to do, even when they are the best, that's what keeps gamers involved. Those who grind to the end and then quit, are always going to do so, not because they get bored, but because that's how they play. Players who "roleplay" in the format of play-acting will do so reguardless of what their level is. Players who love the game, will stay with it through thick and thin, even when they hate what they are playing at times, (site SWG for example.)
Sometimes players will go, sometimes they will stay, but the only guarantee to keeping the average gamer is content. I site CoH for this example. They introduce new content and areas every quarter or so, it's almost always middle level content. Advanced enough to keep endgamers interrested, and high enough to keep lower levels challanged. Although this isn't my prefered example of how to do it, it is a good example of the success of a game. CoH is still on this sites top listed games. Simply because it keeps the gamers interrested.
May I ask what do you mean by that? In my opinion each of the races in Warhammer was made in great detail and in its own way, not just made from the old fantasy mould. There's are so many things original in Warhammer like Chaos and the fact there's so many different races / monsters living in 1 huge world. There are of course some stereotypes (wood, dark and high elves for example) but they fit in nicely making contrast with all the originality.
Another thing I wanted to say. Dark_Lord you are COMPLETELY right! Like I already posted, WoW is all about high end (and once you get there it's all the same with different graphics). The low end and middle end stuff are nothing but ways to get to the top. I think nobody can disagree that wow is pretty much a 1 way street. But enough about that, this is a thread about Warhammer which's story is in my opinion much more diverse and in-detail than the warcraft one making the foundations for a MMORPG better and gives more options to developers.
The way I imagine W.A.R is nothing but PvP. They devs said it themselves, RvR. PvP is the one of MOST important things in a MMORPG, why else would you play a multiplayer game then to fight other players and prove your worth? But, here's a tip for Mythic entertainment although I doubt a firm of that magnitude would listen to the community who does have a lot of experience.
Make PvP and PvE equally important and you have yourselves a winning ticket.
Why? I again would like to point out the Warhammer story. It support so many playing types from which' PvP is most obvious. But don't EVER forget PvE in Warhammer. It is as much interesting as PvP is.
I would also like to suggest the following. Forget the leveling system! Who needs that? Since W.A.R will be a PvP based game (no matter what the community suggests) levels will only add the so-much-worn-out flavour to the game. And then there's no turning back. By removing levels and implementing other features like skills (not just point and click and wait and blablalba) with interactive casting and execution you will introduce skilled gaming and not the click-and-wait system I already pointed out which requires absolutey no real player skill.
And don't forget professions and crafting, for the love of god
I believe if W.A.R ends up at least similar to what I said here (with great detail and affection) you'll end up with a game that satisfies all player types. And that will bring you more profit in the end.
Please study these ideas written by a great fan.
3 years later ppl make the same topics, gf!