Good Lord, Project Gorgon is run by dipwads.

Ye_Olde_Zorvan

Angrakhan

I had zero interest in this game to begin with. I guess now I actually have a negative amount of interest. I also have never been enamored with devs or mods for a game. 

KnightFalz

Jack lost his cool. As a result Citan moved him from his customer facing role. As for the bans and mutes Jack handed out during his tirade I don't know what will happen but would not be surprised if his replacement reviews and possibly changes them.

MMOExposed

Wow. I never forget when I was giving suggestions to a indy Browser MMO called Sherwood, from MaidMarian and the developer told me that similar "Go back to WoW"....   I never saw the game the same after that. Because to me, it tells me the developers dont see flaws in the MMO game design and not willing to accept ideas which likely mean improvement will be slow or non existent. 

Angrakhan

KnightFalz said:

Jack lost his cool. As a result Citan moved him from his customer facing role. As for the bans and mutes Jack handed out during his tirade I don't know what will happen but would not be surprised if his replacement reviews and possibly changes them.

Yeah that's more than just losing one's cool. If he had been a CSR for any mid to large sized corporation and did that he'd be terminated immediately for cause. Matter of fact thanks to AI Jack better hope things work out at his current role because if he applies for work elsewhere all they need to do is Google his name and this whole drama is going to come back in the search results. He'll be hearing a lot of "we decided to go another direction" regardless of the position for which he is applying. I certainly wouldn't hire him and I don't even work in the gaming industry. Egos that big don't end at the forum mod level. They get drug into the meeting room, presentations, interactions with colleagues, interactions with business partners. You don't want that poisoning the well at your place of business regardless of how talented he is (or likely isn't).

Wargfoot

While this doesn't change the "right" or "wrong" of what happened, what is terrible about the internet is your worst day on the job gets put on display.  I'm not making excuses, after all, if you're in public relations you've got to expect that.

If you put my worst day on the job (23 years, and counting), I'd be fired.

For public relations, you've got to know when to take a sick day.  If you just found out your wife is dating her tennis instructor, then call in sick for a week.  What you cannot do is engage with the mass of professional trolls on the web looking to get a reaction.

Ye_Olde_Zorvan

I think what bothers me most is instead of getting rid of him, they just "moved to a non-public facing position". So now, he's mad and instead of just blowing up on the forums, you now have someone behind the scenes potentially taking revenge on paying customers, i.e. accounts suddenly "get hacked" or deleted, accounts suddenly can't login for "no reason", etc.

Will he do these things? Maybe, maybe not. But the fact he could will now be on everyone's minds when something goes wrong after you've critiqued him.

KnightFalz

Angrakhan said:

KnightFalz said:

Jack lost his cool. As a result Citan moved him from his customer facing role. As for the bans and mutes Jack handed out during his tirade I don't know what will happen but would not be surprised if his replacement reviews and possibly changes them.

Yeah that's more than just losing one's cool. If he had been a CSR for any mid to large sized corporation and did that he'd be terminated immediately for cause. Matter of fact thanks to AI Jack better hope things work out at his current role because if he applies for work elsewhere all they need to do is Google his name and this whole drama is going to come back in the search results. He'll be hearing a lot of "we decided to go another direction" regardless of the position for which he is applying. I certainly wouldn't hire him and I don't even work in the gaming industry. Egos that big don't end at the forum mod level. They get drug into the meeting room, presentations, interactions with colleagues, interactions with business partners. You don't want that poisoning the well at your place of business regardless of how talented he is (or likely isn't).

Is it? That rather depends on how many of the eight years he had that role despite the building tension due to not having the temperament for it. If something like that builds long enough it can get pretty extreme. Fortunately, it isn't the only thing he knows how to do so he could be reassigned rather than terminated.

I rather doubt Jack will be looking for any CSR jobs any time soon so I don't expect any will the opportunity to reject his application for such work. It's just as well as it is clearly not something he is adept at over time.

Abusing power once one has lost their cool isn't necessarily representative of ego, but does show lacking self-control. Assessing the talent of someone you don't even know at a type of work you've never seen them perform is rather lacking in foundation, as is assuming his behaviour and emotional state will remain the same once removed from the direct customer interaction that was stressing him.

KnightFalz

Wargfoot said:

While this doesn't change the "right" or "wrong" of what happened, what is terrible about the internet is your worst day on the job gets put on display.  I'm not making excuses, after all, if you're in public relations you've got to expect that.

If you put my worst day on the job (23 years, and counting), I'd be fired.

For public relations, you've got to know when to take a sick day.  If you just found out your wife is dating her tennis instructor, then call in sick for a week.  What you cannot do is engage with the mass of professional trolls on the web looking to get a reaction.

It was definitely wrong from a public relations and customer service point of view. Ideally one in that position that can take a break does so before the last straw breaks the back of their camel of rationality. Sadly luck isn't always on one's side. Anyway, he's been shuffled off to the back so won't be dealing with the public directly anymore. Hopefully his replacement can take the heat of the role better.

Sovrath

MMOExposed said:

Wow. I never forget when I was giving suggestions to a indy Browser MMO called Sherwood, from MaidMarian and the developer told me that similar "Go back to WoW"....   I never saw the game the same after that. Because to me, it tells me the developers dont see flaws in the MMO game design and not willing to accept ideas which likely mean improvement will be slow or non existent. 

While no representative should ever be anything other than professional, many times someone suggests flaws that aren’t really flaws but things they just don’t like.

And when the developers don’t implement them because it’s not part of their design they are accused of not listening.

Developers do have the right to make the game they want to make. Doesn’t mean it will be successful but that’s on them.

Angrakhan

KnightFalz said:

Angrakhan said:

KnightFalz said:

Jack lost his cool. As a result Citan moved him from his customer facing role. As for the bans and mutes Jack handed out during his tirade I don't know what will happen but would not be surprised if his replacement reviews and possibly changes them.

Yeah that's more than just losing one's cool. If he had been a CSR for any mid to large sized corporation and did that he'd be terminated immediately for cause. Matter of fact thanks to AI Jack better hope things work out at his current role because if he applies for work elsewhere all they need to do is Google his name and this whole drama is going to come back in the search results. He'll be hearing a lot of "we decided to go another direction" regardless of the position for which he is applying. I certainly wouldn't hire him and I don't even work in the gaming industry. Egos that big don't end at the forum mod level. They get drug into the meeting room, presentations, interactions with colleagues, interactions with business partners. You don't want that poisoning the well at your place of business regardless of how talented he is (or likely isn't).

Is it? That rather depends on how many of the eight years he had that role despite the building tension due to not having the temperament for it. If something like that builds long enough it can get pretty extreme. Fortunately, it isn't the only thing he knows how to do so he could be reassigned rather than terminated.

I rather doubt Jack will be looking for any CSR jobs any time soon so I don't expect any will the opportunity to reject his application for such work. It's just as well as it is clearly not something he is adept at over time.

Abusing power once one has lost their cool isn't necessarily representative of ego, but does show lacking self-control. Assessing the talent of someone you don't even know at a type of work you've never seen them perform is rather lacking in foundation, as is assuming his behaviour and emotional state will remain the same once removed from the direct customer interaction that was stressing him.

No I would hesitate to hire him for any position. I'm not just talking CSR. Lead anything. Manager of anything. All a big nope because guess what all of those roles are stressful and require you to interact with people. He showed his true colors of how he handles stress. Instead of being honest and telling someone he needs help he does, well, this. I promise that behavior isn't limited to his interactions on an online forum. If you have no respect for your customers, the people ultimately responsible for your paycheck, why would you have respect for a peer, much less a subordinate. You want this guy as your manager? I'll pass, thanks. I certainly don't want to be his manager going around cleaning up his messes with HR and PR. Too much hassle. 

Oh and yes the first two years of my career in IT were working the phones as a tech support rep which is a lot harder than forum mod because you're stuck 1 or 1 with a person on a phone call who called you not because they're happy with your product and just wanted to shower you with praise. As a forum mod you have time to think of your response. Heck these days you can spout all the expletives you want at Gemini and ask it to edit for professional language and out will come a perfectly composed response that is unlikely to offend anyone. Sounds comparatively like a cakewalk. On the phone there's no hiding tone or editing your response multiple times before clicking submit. If you can't keep your cool in that environment, what environment can you keep your cool in? I'm guessing not many.

Wargfoot

I think they should put Ungood in the vacant position.

Nosferatupac

Customers suck. Especially the ones that selectively leave out key information to make themselves look innocent.

KnightFalz

Angrakhan said:

KnightFalz said:

Angrakhan said:

KnightFalz said:

Jack lost his cool. As a result Citan moved him from his customer facing role. As for the bans and mutes Jack handed out during his tirade I don't know what will happen but would not be surprised if his replacement reviews and possibly changes them.

Yeah that's more than just losing one's cool. If he had been a CSR for any mid to large sized corporation and did that he'd be terminated immediately for cause. Matter of fact thanks to AI Jack better hope things work out at his current role because if he applies for work elsewhere all they need to do is Google his name and this whole drama is going to come back in the search results. He'll be hearing a lot of "we decided to go another direction" regardless of the position for which he is applying. I certainly wouldn't hire him and I don't even work in the gaming industry. Egos that big don't end at the forum mod level. They get drug into the meeting room, presentations, interactions with colleagues, interactions with business partners. You don't want that poisoning the well at your place of business regardless of how talented he is (or likely isn't).

Is it? That rather depends on how many of the eight years he had that role despite the building tension due to not having the temperament for it. If something like that builds long enough it can get pretty extreme. Fortunately, it isn't the only thing he knows how to do so he could be reassigned rather than terminated.

I rather doubt Jack will be looking for any CSR jobs any time soon so I don't expect any will the opportunity to reject his application for such work. It's just as well as it is clearly not something he is adept at over time.

Abusing power once one has lost their cool isn't necessarily representative of ego, but does show lacking self-control. Assessing the talent of someone you don't even know at a type of work you've never seen them perform is rather lacking in foundation, as is assuming his behaviour and emotional state will remain the same once removed from the direct customer interaction that was stressing him.

No I would hesitate to hire him for any position. I'm not just talking CSR. Lead anything. Manager of anything. All a big nope because guess what all of those roles are stressful and require you to interact with people. He showed his true colors of how he handles stress. Instead of being honest and telling someone he needs help he does, well, this. I promise that behavior isn't limited to his interactions on an online forum. If you have no respect for your customers, the people ultimately responsible for your paycheck, why would you have respect for a peer, much less a subordinate. You want this guy as your manager? I'll pass, thanks. I certainly don't want to be his manager going around cleaning up his messes with HR and PR. Too much hassle. 

Oh and yes the first two years of my career in IT were working the phones as a tech support rep which is a lot harder than forum mod because you're stuck 1 or 1 with a person on a phone call who called you not because they're happy with your product and just wanted to shower you with praise. As a forum mod you have time to think of your response. Heck these days you can spout all the expletives you want at Gemini and ask it to edit for professional language and out will come a perfectly composed response that is unlikely to offend anyone. Sounds comparatively like a cakewalk. On the phone there's no hiding tone or editing your response multiple times before clicking submit. If you can't keep your cool in that environment, what environment can you keep your cool in? I'm guessing not many.

As it happens he isn't looking for a job so it really doesn't matter whether you would hire him or not.

I'm aware of what doing tech support over the phone is like having done so myself. It's not all that hard but you do lack the luxury of time to phrase your responses to be sure. That isn't a problem provided you remain professional in your conduct and manage the call effectively so things can actually get done.

If dealing with the public is what causes one to lose their cool any job where one doesn't have to is all the change needed. Should the issue go beyond that than it becomes much more difficult to resolve.

KnightFalz

Nosferatupac said:

Customers suck. Especially the ones that selectively leave out key information to make themselves look innocent.

Sometimes, but excellent customer service can turn that around when the issue itself has them out of sorts rather than it being their default state.

Kyleran

Wargfoot said:

I think they should put Ungood in the vacant position.

I might pay good money to watch those conversations. 

Ungood

Wargfoot said:

I think they should put Ungood in the vacant position.

LOL Wut?

Wargfoot

Ungood said:

Wargfoot said:

I think they should put Ungood in the vacant position.

LOL Wut?

He may not be the community manager we want, but he is the community manager we need.

Ungood

Wargfoot said:

Ungood said:

Wargfoot said:

I think they should put Ungood in the vacant position.

LOL Wut?

He may not be the community manager we want, but he is the community manager we need.

I was just about to write a post about how if I ever got into game development, there is no way in hell I would deal with the public, because I simply do not have the right personality for it

Wargfoot

Ungood said:

Wargfoot said:

Ungood said:

Wargfoot said:

I think they should put Ungood in the vacant position.

LOL Wut?

He may not be the community manager we want, but he is the community manager we need.

I was just about to write a post about how if I ever got into game development, there is no way in hell I would deal with the public, because I simply do not have the right personality for it

Honestly, I'm not sure I trust people suited to it.

Kyleran

Wargfoot said:

Ungood said:

Wargfoot said:

Ungood said:

Wargfoot said:

I think they should put Ungood in the vacant position.

LOL Wut?

He may not be the community manager we want, but he is the community manager we need.

I was just about to write a post about how if I ever got into game development, there is no way in hell I would deal with the public, because I simply do not have the right personality for it

Honestly, I'm not sure I trust people suited to it.

How's it go? People who seek power usually aren't suited for it.  

Besides it seems most Community Managers don't have the right personality for it, so Ungood is probably perfect.

Scot

Kyleran said:

Wargfoot said:

Ungood said:

Wargfoot said:

Ungood said:

Wargfoot said:

I think they should put Ungood in the vacant position.

LOL Wut?

He may not be the community manager we want, but he is the community manager we need.

I was just about to write a post about how if I ever got into game development, there is no way in hell I would deal with the public, because I simply do not have the right personality for it

Honestly, I'm not sure I trust people suited to it.

How's it go? People who seek power usually aren't suited for it.  

Besides it seems most Community Managers don't have the right personality for it, so Ungood is probably perfect.

Can I?
NO!

He would sort 'em out

Wargfoot

Kyleran said:

Wargfoot said:

Ungood said:

Wargfoot said:

Ungood said:

Wargfoot said:

I think they should put Ungood in the vacant position.

LOL Wut?

He may not be the community manager we want, but he is the community manager we need.

I was just about to write a post about how if I ever got into game development, there is no way in hell I would deal with the public, because I simply do not have the right personality for it

Honestly, I'm not sure I trust people suited to it.

How's it go? People who seek power usually aren't suited for it.  

Besides it seems most Community Managers don't have the right personality for it, so Ungood is probably perfect.

I'm pretty sure Ungood is monitoring this thread - just advising a little bit of caution here, for all our sakes.

Wargfoot

The one time a community manager really offended me was over at FO, were I'd participated for quite some time.  I thought I had a good relationship with the team (friendly) until I went to report a very serious duplication bug.

I pulled the CM into a private chat and described how to reproduce the bug, the CM tested it, found the bug to be legit, and then told me in stern language that my account would be audited.

So, your response is to target the guy reporting the bug...

Sovrath

Wargfoot said:

The one time a community manager really offended me was over at FO, were I'd participated for quite some time.  I thought I had a good relationship with the team (friendly) until I went to report a very serious duplication bug.

I pulled the CM into a private chat and described how to reproduce the bug, the CM tested it, found the bug to be legit, and then told me in stern language that my account would be audited.

So, your response is to target the guy reporting the bug...

Perhaps you should have told the group of them that you had discovered a serious bug and not just confide in one person?

Playing Devil’s advocate, it does make sense to audit any account that reported that type of bug as one could feasibly take advantage of it for a while and then report it to minimize other players from taking advantage of it.

But wasn’t that game in beta? In which case wouldn’t there be wipes at some point?

In any case, for posting that story your account here will have to be audited.

dems are the rules.

Ungood

Wargfoot said:

The one time a community manager really offended me was over at FO, were I'd participated for quite some time.  I thought I had a good relationship with the team (friendly) until I went to report a very serious duplication bug.

I pulled the CM into a private chat and described how to reproduce the bug, the CM tested it, found the bug to be legit, and then told me in stern language that my account would be audited.

So, your response is to target the guy reporting the bug...

Yah, this is the exact shit, is why I don't post on the Official Game forms anymore, honestly, I am so jaded by the power tripping assholes that run community relations, that if I found a bug, I'd keep it to myself, and depending on how profitable it was, exploit the fuck out of it.

Sorry, but, make it so people don't want to talk with you, and they won't, simple as that.

As for your situation, FO? Fall Out? Not sure what game, but, fucking hell, someone exposes a bug to me, a serious one that our Team didn't know, I'd give them some sweet ass shit, because... 

Get this... if someone comes to you, to help you, for free, giving them some sweet ass shit... is how you get free help by the rest of the community to find and report bugs to you.

"We gonna audit you" would be the LAST fucking thing I would say.. and honestly, I would not give a fuck if they exploited the hell out of the bug, I would expect no less, and think they were dumbasses for not ding that, but..  they had the balls to step forward and report it, so, that should be respected

When that is not... well that player suddenly has a very "fuck you too" attitude, and no doubt they will be more than happy to explain what exact kind of douchebag fuckface the entire team is, to punish them for their help, to the point, no one they come in contact with will want to help us either. 

But I toss them like.. some fucking bauble, like. here you go, have a legendary e-peen ring or some bullshit, and.. fucking.. everyone will instantly become a play tester for us...