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Advice For Developers

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  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,348
    edited June 14
    Scot said:
    Wargfoot said:
    Scot said:
    It's in all gaming of course, game comes out third person "I'm out!", comes out first person "I'm out". I myself will drop out if there is too much survival, but I think that's a genre choice, good luck to those who like it.
    I imagine you wouldn't "drop out".
    You simply wouldn't have bought the title in the first place.
    I was thinking of interest before launch, yes I would not buy.
     'Tis better to have loved and lost
    Than never to have loved at all.
    The idea of detachment and impermanence suggests that all things, including relationships and emotions, are transient and subject to change. From this perspective, the attachment we have to that which we  love and the pain of loss that follows can be seen as the result of craving and clinging to something that is ultimately fleeting, like that latest game.

    Is the experience of gaming love truly worth the inevitable pain of loss, knowing that everything is impermanent? Or does the impermanence of all things underscore the importance of cherishing every moment of love and connection, regardless of the potential for loss?

    P.S. I gave this one to Chat AI and asked it to refute you, it did a pretty good job, I only did a couple of edits...not long now before we can switch of our brains. :)

  • KidRiskKidRisk Member UncommonPosts: 18
    Sovrath said:

    My thought is "show the damn progress." Even if it's back end stuff. Is there a piece of new artwork? A new npc? Show that. But show something and engage with the players who are interested.

    The challenge with this, is always time. Time is needed to prepare for showing any given update. Is it just a screenshot? Is is a full presentation of code? Is it an in engine video? Did you budget time for dealing with the Q&A for any given update? Did you figure this time into your roadmap for every update? 

    Its a trade off. Development vs. updates. If its a small team, this is even more painful.
    Kyleran
  • WargfootWargfoot Member EpicPosts: 1,440
    KidRisk said:
    Sovrath said:

    My thought is "show the damn progress." Even if it's back end stuff. Is there a piece of new artwork? A new npc? Show that. But show something and engage with the players who are interested.

    The challenge with this, is always time. Time is needed to prepare for showing any given update. Is it just a screenshot? Is is a full presentation of code? Is it an in engine video? Did you budget time for dealing with the Q&A for any given update? Did you figure this time into your roadmap for every update? 

    Its a trade off. Development vs. updates. If its a small team, this is even more painful.
    We're not talking about a video produced by Spielberg here.
    For an example of a small team that does this well: Updates | Shroud of the Avatar


    Sovrath
  • KidRiskKidRisk Member UncommonPosts: 18
    Wargfoot said:
    KidRisk said:
    Sovrath said:

    My thought is "show the damn progress." Even if it's back end stuff. Is there a piece of new artwork? A new npc? Show that. But show something and engage with the players who are interested.

    The challenge with this, is always time. Time is needed to prepare for showing any given update. Is it just a screenshot? Is is a full presentation of code? Is it an in engine video? Did you budget time for dealing with the Q&A for any given update? Did you figure this time into your roadmap for every update? 

    Its a trade off. Development vs. updates. If its a small team, this is even more painful.
    We're not talking about a video produced by Spielberg here.
    For an example of a small team that does this well: Updates | Shroud of the Avatar


    Any public update, regardless of how small, will take time away from development by team member(s). Small indie teams will feel this the most.

    I am not saying updates shouldn't happen. But they need to be accounted for in planning. 

    Even a small, short video, takes time. Does it need audio? Where is it hosted? 

    Its not as simple as record something and throw it out to the wild.

  • WargfootWargfoot Member EpicPosts: 1,440
    edited June 14
    KidRisk said:
    Wargfoot said:
    KidRisk said:
    Sovrath said:

    My thought is "show the damn progress." Even if it's back end stuff. Is there a piece of new artwork? A new npc? Show that. But show something and engage with the players who are interested.

    The challenge with this, is always time. Time is needed to prepare for showing any given update. Is it just a screenshot? Is is a full presentation of code? Is it an in engine video? Did you budget time for dealing with the Q&A for any given update? Did you figure this time into your roadmap for every update? 

    Its a trade off. Development vs. updates. If its a small team, this is even more painful.
    We're not talking about a video produced by Spielberg here.
    For an example of a small team that does this well: Updates | Shroud of the Avatar


    Any public update, regardless of how small, will take time away from development by team member(s). Small indie teams will feel this the most.

    I am not saying updates shouldn't happen. But they need to be accounted for in planning. 

    Even a small, short video, takes time. Does it need audio? Where is it hosted? 

    Its not as simple as record something and throw it out to the wild.

    No updates at all discourage the fans and people drift away.
    IMHO, if you don't have 1 hr. a week to communicate with your fanbase then go ahead and fail.

    We don't need these kinds of developers - who are so poorly financed/organized that they cannot cough up an update.  That kind of game isn't gonna make it anyways.

    It is a powerful thing when people can see 6 months, or a year of monthly updates - that history is something I'll be looking for in my next title.
  • WargfootWargfoot Member EpicPosts: 1,440
    Why are developers who don't have time for an update even engaging the community at all?
    Sovrath
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,822
    KidRisk said:
    Sovrath said:

    My thought is "show the damn progress." Even if it's back end stuff. Is there a piece of new artwork? A new npc? Show that. But show something and engage with the players who are interested.

    The challenge with this, is always time. Time is needed to prepare for showing any given update. Is it just a screenshot? Is is a full presentation of code? Is it an in engine video? Did you budget time for dealing with the Q&A for any given update? Did you figure this time into your roadmap for every update? 

    Its a trade off. Development vs. updates. If its a small team, this is even more painful.

    Involve the community manager and make the updates reasonable. If it can't be done once per month it can be done once every two months.

    We used to do a weekly update meeting at my last company where all the departments would report in on what was going on. They had 10 minutes. We did it for years. Just took effort.
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • WargfootWargfoot Member EpicPosts: 1,440
    Sovrath said:
    KidRisk said:
    Sovrath said:

    My thought is "show the damn progress." Even if it's back end stuff. Is there a piece of new artwork? A new npc? Show that. But show something and engage with the players who are interested.

    The challenge with this, is always time. Time is needed to prepare for showing any given update. Is it just a screenshot? Is is a full presentation of code? Is it an in engine video? Did you budget time for dealing with the Q&A for any given update? Did you figure this time into your roadmap for every update? 

    Its a trade off. Development vs. updates. If its a small team, this is even more painful.

    Involve the community manager and make the updates reasonable. If it can't be done once per month it can be done once every two months.

    We used to do a weekly update meeting at my last company where all the departments would report in on what was going on. They had 10 minutes. We did it for years. Just took effort.
    At the very minimum, don't promise updates that you totally ignore and never deliver.
    SovrathKyleran
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,607
    I can put together a few slides in 15 minutes.  Any Dev can find 15 minutes a month.  Nobody needs in depth "Making Of" videos.  A few slides or paragraphs a month that say:  We did this.  Next month we plan to do That.  And maybe a 3rd that updates longer range milestones which would take 2 minutes to cut/paste and adjust.

    Its not rocket science.  It's either a sign of total disrespect (Yeah I said I would do it but you're just pond scum so who cares) or having nothing to show (Um... everything I said I would do this month I didn't do.. so let me just be quiet and hope they forget).

    Again... anybody can find 15 minutes a month.  And NO, that isn't going to impact progress or delivery times in the least.
     
    Sovrath

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,607
    Wargfoot said:
    Sovrath said:
    KidRisk said:
    Sovrath said:

    My thought is "show the damn progress." Even if it's back end stuff. Is there a piece of new artwork? A new npc? Show that. But show something and engage with the players who are interested.

    The challenge with this, is always time. Time is needed to prepare for showing any given update. Is it just a screenshot? Is is a full presentation of code? Is it an in engine video? Did you budget time for dealing with the Q&A for any given update? Did you figure this time into your roadmap for every update? 

    Its a trade off. Development vs. updates. If its a small team, this is even more painful.

    Involve the community manager and make the updates reasonable. If it can't be done once per month it can be done once every two months.

    We used to do a weekly update meeting at my last company where all the departments would report in on what was going on. They had 10 minutes. We did it for years. Just took effort.
    At the very minimum, don't promise updates that you totally ignore and never deliver.
    The Golden Rule.  Do what you say you are going to do.  And if you can't, pro-actively tell the customer why.


    I work in the shipping industry.  We have delays on shipments all the time.  But 99% of the time we know this way before the delivery promised date/time.  So we now pro-actively send the cust9omers notices saying their shipment was delayed, why (example, weather), and what the new delivery date and time is.  Customers understand that.   What they hate is when they are never told, and the delivery date/time passes and the package never shows.   That's just bullshit 9 out of 10 times.  Yeah, once in a while something happens at the last minute, but thats an exception to the rule.


    Sovrath

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • BrainyBrainy Member EpicPosts: 2,184
    Kyleran said:
    Wait, wut? Title of this thread is 

    Advice For Developers. ;)


    This thread is more like Advice from forum blowhards on how to tank a game as fast as possible.

    Its obvious that most of the devs these days have Zero clue what the community wants and neither do the blowhard forum warriors.

    1) They need to completely ignore any players that say they like extremely niche games.  If the player likes games with 1000 players or less, then the advice they give you is going to lead you to those types of numbers.  

    Dont use a FLY to determine the best meals unless want to eat alot of .... trash.

    2) Ignore the forum warriors, most are clueless.

    3) Stick someone on your team for creative ideas and direction that is in touch with the general player base that is "PICKY".  Have them do a tier list.  If they have noname niche games in the top tiers, they need to go.  Make sure their top tier lists align with popular games from that genre that you are trying to build.

    4) Dont even bother talking to the community.  Keep your trap shut, spend your time developing and surprise the players with a quality game, they will love you for it.

    Watch how they throw money at you.

    Rinse and repeat.

    Slapshot1188KyleranWargfoot
  • OldKingLogOldKingLog Member RarePosts: 600
    I must admit I didn't read the rest of the thread past my last post, rather deep into my Friday drinking trousers I'm afraid, but here's an idea. How about someone write a counter thread on Advice For Players. I can't because I am far too cynical of the modern gaming industry. However maybe one of you younger, less damaged pups could take a whack at it and explain to we far past our prime doom and gloomers, why we are the ones in the wrong here. Could be quite the hoot.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,348
    I must admit I didn't read the rest of the thread past my last post, rather deep into my Friday drinking trousers I'm afraid, but here's an idea. How about someone write a counter thread on Advice For Players. I can't because I am far too cynical of the modern gaming industry. However maybe one of you younger, less damaged pups could take a whack at it and explain to we far past our prime doom and gloomers, why we are the ones in the wrong here. Could be quite the hoot.
    I have a drinking jacket, but not a pair of drinking trousers, will have to look into that. :)



  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 5,852
    edited June 17
    I must admit I didn't read the rest of the thread past my last post, rather deep into my Friday drinking trousers I'm afraid, but here's an idea. How about someone write a counter thread on Advice For Players. I can't because I am far too cynical of the modern gaming industry. However maybe one of you younger, less damaged pups could take a whack at it and explain to we far past our prime doom and gloomers, why we are the ones in the wrong here. Could be quite the hoot.
    I'll give this a stab. It seems rather obvious anyways. 

    For starters, always present your coolest self:


    Secondly, and perhaps most importantly, always be prepared for any eventuality:



    Then again, I'm none too sure about my state of damage. 
    Slapshot1188Scot

    Once upon a time....

  • claywinstonclaywinston Newbie CommonPosts: 1
    Keep focused
    Wargfoot
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