Class Gameplay Loop | How much Control?

Eronakis

For most class designs, there is some degree of a core mechanic of how you play your class. Whether that be a builder/spender, durational, maintain, amplify etc.

For you as a player, how much control do you like on your core mechanic gameplay loop for combat? In the examples below, I am just expressing very simple terminology to get the point across.

Option A Example
The core mechanic allows you to build towards something with varying different abilities that influence that build. Then the player determines when they want to destroy that build to produce exceptional damage and/or an interesting effect. In this option the player determines the control of their gameplay loop by destroying the build. The player determines the frequency of this gameplay loop.

Pros: This option gives the player full agency of when they want to destroy that build to produce results. It gives the freedom to the player to determine if they need quick burst or build it for a longer duration for a big damage output. This could provide a high skill expression. If there are other damage abilities that do not synergize with the core damage abilities, it would allow those damage abilities to be more prevalent.

Cons: To me, I feel like this option could become a bit one dimensional and potentially most average players would want to build it up to max capacity before destroying the build for massive damage.



Option B Example
The core mechanic has is duration based and the gameplay is about the pressure you have to perform what you want within a short time. The player would stack different effects to build towards the destroy damage that would trigger when the timer has expired. In this option the gameplay loop is determined by whatever the set duration is before it expires. Making this one a more frequent one but always consistent to a certain degree.

Pros: The player is familiar with the consistency of the loop, makes it easy to learn, hard to master. Could be easier to balance because of the consistency of the loop. Allows for a more of a set rotation.

Cons: The agency of core ability choice is there but put under pressure within the certain timer. Can become one dimensional over time because players may figure out more of a meta easier.

What Option do you prefer? Option A where the player determines the gameplay loop for their class or Option B, the gameplay loop is determined for the player, and their agency is within a specific defined structure?

Amaranthar

What do you mean by "game play loop"? 

I'll explain what I want, but it encompasses more than damage. You can tell me where I fit, or maybe I'm just out-of-bounds on this reply. 

I try to build my main character as an explorer, often soloing, but prefer the company of friends. So I need to develop both offensive and defensive strategies, as well as an escape plan in case I get in over my head. 
I need to be effective in group, as well as solo. 
This means a bit of the "Jack of all trades", but not entirely so as to be effective in Solo. 

As far as "loop", if you mean a build-up to a big damage attack, well, I really don't like that game design unless that build-up is by tactical means. That is, doing one thing to get the MOB to set itself to react to that one thing, then switching to another for better effect. Or possibly leading the MOB to a cliff, then causing it to go over the edge to finish it off. This last, "tactical", I'm not aware if in many games. I wish it were in more, and more diverse. I like strategy in my combat. 

OG_Solareus

I like timers, it forces me to figure out how fully explore a class. Spamming  skills get boring for me over time.

PVP combat, timers a crucial to give the opponent a counter opportunity.

cameltosis

I'm all about giving players choices. Decision making sits at the heart of roleplaying, so giving players more choice during moment-to-moment gameplay is good for me. The more choices, the better.

Whether that choice is about when to spend a class-resource, or when to blow some long cooldown skills, kinda doesn't matter to me.

Iselin

I hate cooldown timers. They are a kludge that doesn't do a very good job of simulating realistic combat and is simply one way of balancing the use of powerful abilities. 

A much better way of accomplishing the same thing is by giving different skills different resource costs and balancing around a much more realistic "exhaustion" mechanic. It works equally well for stamina or magic power exhaustion and gives you a choice to "let it rip" and risk being powerless for a time or managing your resource by restraining yourself from overuse of the powerful but expensive skills.

Fantasy books and movies use the concept of exhaustion and resource depletion because it's relatable and in games, it's much more immersive than silly little countdown timers.

OG_Solareus

Iselin said:

I hate cooldown timers. They are a kludge that doesn't do a very good job of simulating realistic combat and is simply one way of balancing the use of powerful abilities. 

A much better way of accomplishing the same thing is by giving different skills different resource costs and balancing around a much more realistic "exhaustion" mechanic. It works equally well for stamina or magic power exhaustion and gives you a choice to "let it rip" and risk being powerless for a time or managing your resource by restraining yourself from overuse of the powerful but expensive skills.

Fantasy books and movies use the concept of exhaustion and resource depletion because it's relatable and in games, it's much more immersive than silly little countdown timers.

meh, resource costs exist weith the timer , it is usually called mana or stamina. Also the word "cost" is music to gold farmer ears because people will need potions or a some other widgit to replenish those resources.

I don't like your idia, respectfully,

Eronakis

Iselin said:

I hate cooldown timers. They are a kludge that doesn't do a very good job of simulating realistic combat and is simply one way of balancing the use of powerful abilities. 

A much better way of accomplishing the same thing is by giving different skills different resource costs and balancing around a much more realistic "exhaustion" mechanic. It works equally well for stamina or magic power exhaustion and gives you a choice to "let it rip" and risk being powerless for a time or managing your resource by restraining yourself from overuse of the powerful but expensive skills.

Fantasy books and movies use the concept of exhaustion and resource depletion because it's relatable and in games, it's much more immersive than silly little countdown timers.

I've thought about this. An older design concept was that every class had a stamina bar, and then their own archetype specific resource.

The idea was that when the Stamina Bar decreased your swing/cast time increased with a small chance of a miss.

The gameplay would be about keeping a good balance of stamina.

Stamina would decrease more faster if you spammed abilities. If you didn't spam abilities it wouldn't decrease as much.

This would slow down the pace of combat to more of a medium pace I would predict.

For magic users, shorter cast times cause more mana because you're casting it faster. Like when you sprint in running, you exhaust more stamina. So you could recover more stamina at a slower rate when casting longer durational abilities. Off the top of my head I wouldn't know what would be the equivalent for melee.

That's just an idea. I feel like Cooldown can work and is the traditional sense to negate spamming and a layer of "balance". I think if the above mechanic was integrated as a system, then I feel like cooldowns would be for super powerful abilities.