Everyone is
scratching their heads why no mmorpgs, here's why ?
Free to Play
Cash shops
Pay to win
Story driven instead
of player driven
Carrot on a stick
questing
Easy combat
No need for "abilities" for easy combat, they ALL WORK
No need for crafting
because of "easy combat"
Don't need others
because of "easy combat"
No need for armor
and weapon upgrades because of "easy combat"
Boring no challenge
because of "easy combat"
30 days of content,
no replay, like single player
Complex graphics,
harder to make
Complex graphics ,
expensive
Complex graphics ,
slow development
Complex graphics,
small game
ZONING, instead of
seamless
In 15 years I've
asked the same question never an answer:
Did you ask for all
of this or did companies and developers act on their own ??
Do you need this??
Do you demand all of
this ?
Why are you
defending this!!... AND PUTTING THE BLAME ON THE PLAYERS !!!
I agree with you on this list other than Zoning.
EZ combat and Complex graphics seems to be at the root of most of the problems.
As graphics have become more complex, gameplay has decreased. Not sure if this is just a coincidence or part of the wider problem. I do think devs are out of touch with the masses.
Many of you are saying we created this, but in the last decade many of these games have failed or have very few subscribers compared to before. So wallet voting is not working well. There is always going to be someone that will buy anything. The large majority has exited and all this caused was AAA devs to exit also.
I honestly dont know the answer, other than the AAA studios getting good management that has a clue about the various different playerbases.
Management has a very clear picture about what people will pay for, hence gaming overall makes money hand over fist year over year, just not so much in the newer MMORPG space.
Zenimax, SQENIX, Blizzard, all have chosen to keep milking their existing MMORPGs and invest their money elsewhere.
Most developers won't even bother with the genre, they just don't see a proven model of big return so they want to build the next Pokemon Go or the like.
When I worked for the top CD/ DVD company, the head accountant/head manager would say, make the money today, forget about tomorrow, we may not be in this job later to care.
Pretty smart person, bet your old employer isn't doing to well these days unless they invested in other directions besides CD'S & DVD's.
Perhaps MMORPGS are sort of obsolete in the same way with consumers moving on to newer game focuses such as MOBA's, BR's, multiplayer survival games and the like.
Consumers moving on ?....... That's because of the 17 core reasons,
Forgot already ?..... this post is only a few hours old
I feel compelled to point out that the ones below all only share one "Core Problem" which is easy combat (according to you) and the others you listed are just symptoms of that core problem.
Easy combat
No need for "abilities" for easy combat, they ALL WORK
No need for crafting because of "easy combat"
Don't need others because of "easy combat"
No need for armor and weapon upgrades because of "easy combat"
Boring no challenge because of "easy combat"
So on the plus side we just cut your list down from 17 to 12!
You are welcome!
PS: Also looks like these 4 also share the same "Core Problem" which is (according to you post) Complex Graphics..
Complex graphics, harder to make
Complex graphics , expensive
Complex graphics , slow development
Complex graphics, small game
So we knocked another 3 down and got your initial list of 17 Core Problems down to a more manageable 9!
Now let's look at whether or not players really want more challenging combat in MMORPGS, especially in the open world.
One game often offered up as an example of such hidden demand is Elden Ring.
Yet one analysis shows players did manage to average well over 100 hrs played, yet these figures are rounding errors when it comes to MMORPGs.
Other sources suggest that while Elden Ring is one of the most completed games, it also wracks up double the amount of reported players who walked away, with guesstimate of about 50% never completing the main story line.
Challenging combat in the open world might be a lot of fun in the short term, but there not a lot of modern evidence players would want such for 2000 plus hours ... because, as mentioned, no Dev has created such
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Everyone is
scratching their heads why no mmorpgs, here's why ?
Free to Play
Cash shops
Pay to win
Story driven instead
of player driven
Carrot on a stick
questing
Easy combat
No need for "abilities" for easy combat, they ALL WORK
No need for crafting
because of "easy combat"
Don't need others
because of "easy combat"
No need for armor
and weapon upgrades because of "easy combat"
Boring no challenge
because of "easy combat"
30 days of content,
no replay, like single player
Complex graphics,
harder to make
Complex graphics ,
expensive
Complex graphics ,
slow development
Complex graphics,
small game
ZONING, instead of
seamless
In 15 years I've
asked the same question never an answer:
Did you ask for all
of this or did companies and developers act on their own ??
Do you need this??
Do you demand all of
this ?
Why are you
defending this!!... AND PUTTING THE BLAME ON THE PLAYERS !!!
I agree with you on this list other than Zoning.
EZ combat and Complex graphics seems to be at the root of most of the problems.
As graphics have become more complex, gameplay has decreased. Not sure if this is just a coincidence or part of the wider problem. I do think devs are out of touch with the masses.
Many of you are saying we created this, but in the last decade many of these games have failed or have very few subscribers compared to before. So wallet voting is not working well. There is always going to be someone that will buy anything. The large majority has exited and all this caused was AAA devs to exit also.
I honestly dont know the answer, other than the AAA studios getting good management that has a clue about the various different playerbases.
Management has a very clear picture about what people will pay for, hence gaming overall makes money hand over fist year over year, just not so much in the newer MMORPG space.
Zenimax, SQENIX, Blizzard, all have chosen to keep milking their existing MMORPGs and invest their money elsewhere.
Most developers won't even bother with the genre, they just don't see a proven model of big return so they want to build the next Pokemon Go or the like.
When I worked for the top CD/ DVD company, the head accountant/head manager would say, make the money today, forget about tomorrow, we may not be in this job later to care.
Pretty smart person, bet your old employer isn't doing to well these days unless they invested in other directions besides CD'S & DVD's.
Perhaps MMORPGS are sort of obsolete in the same way with consumers moving on to newer game focuses such as MOBA's, BR's, multiplayer survival games and the like.
Consumers moving on ?....... That's because of the 17 core reasons,
Forgot already ?..... this post is only a few hours old
Perhaps they find the answers to your "problems" such as challenging gameplay in other genres both single player and online?
Or maybe they just go off and have a nice game of chess.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Everyone is
scratching their heads why no mmorpgs, here's why ?
Free to Play
Cash shops
Pay to win
Story driven instead
of player driven
Carrot on a stick
questing
Easy combat
No need for "abilities" for easy combat, they ALL WORK
No need for crafting
because of "easy combat"
Don't need others
because of "easy combat"
No need for armor
and weapon upgrades because of "easy combat"
Boring no challenge
because of "easy combat"
30 days of content,
no replay, like single player
Complex graphics,
harder to make
Complex graphics ,
expensive
Complex graphics ,
slow development
Complex graphics,
small game
ZONING, instead of
seamless
In 15 years I've
asked the same question never an answer:
Did you ask for all
of this or did companies and developers act on their own ??
Do you need this??
Do you demand all of
this ?
Why are you
defending this!!... AND PUTTING THE BLAME ON THE PLAYERS !!!
I agree with you on this list other than Zoning.
EZ combat and Complex graphics seems to be at the root of most of the problems.
As graphics have become more complex, gameplay has decreased. Not sure if this is just a coincidence or part of the wider problem. I do think devs are out of touch with the masses.
Many of you are saying we created this, but in the last decade many of these games have failed or have very few subscribers compared to before. So wallet voting is not working well. There is always going to be someone that will buy anything. The large majority has exited and all this caused was AAA devs to exit also.
I honestly dont know the answer, other than the AAA studios getting good management that has a clue about the various different playerbases.
Management has a very clear picture about what people will pay for, hence gaming overall makes money hand over fist year over year, just not so much in the newer MMORPG space.
Zenimax, SQENIX, Blizzard, all have chosen to keep milking their existing MMORPGs and invest their money elsewhere.
Most developers won't even bother with the genre, they just don't see a proven model of big return so they want to build the next Pokemon Go or the like.
When I worked for the top CD/ DVD company, the head accountant/head manager would say, make the money today, forget about tomorrow, we may not be in this job later to care.
Pretty smart person, bet your old employer isn't doing to well these days unless they invested in other directions besides CD'S & DVD's.
Perhaps MMORPGS are sort of obsolete in the same way with consumers moving on to newer game focuses such as MOBA's, BR's, multiplayer survival games and the like.
Consumers moving on ?....... That's because of the 17 core reasons,
Forgot already ?..... this post is only a few hours old
I don't think everything on that list is bad. One for instance is Cash Shops. ESO cash shop let's people play with no monthly sub and just buy the content they want to play. Cash shops can be both bad and good. It all comes to what people want in a MMO. Also depends on how the company uses these tools. Pure greed or an option to give people an outlet to support the game they play.
Other sources suggest that while Elden Ring is one of the most completed games, it also wracks up double the amount of reported players who walked away, with guesstimate of about 50% never completing the main story line.
Challenging combat in the open world might be a lot of fun in the short term, but there not a lot of modern evidence players would want such for 2000 plus hours ... because, as mentioned, no Dev has created such
Absolutely true, most don’t.
Post edited by Sovrath on
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
MMORPG games is not that big of a market. Games like Fortnite make a lot more money. Even Candy Crush makes more money.
For example, Star Citizen might be one of the most lucrative titles now, bringing in over 1/2 a billion so far. Fortnite makes FIVE BILLION A YEAR, every year.
If you are an investor looking to invest in computer gaming, why would you back an MMO? They take much longer to make, cost more to make, and have a much smaller market. Plus, that market is fickle, like in this post.
Everyone is
scratching their heads why no mmorpgs, here's why ?
Free to Play
Cash shops
Pay to win
Story driven instead
of player driven
Carrot on a stick
questing
Easy combat
No need for "abilities" for easy combat, they ALL WORK
No need for crafting
because of "easy combat"
Don't need others
because of "easy combat"
No need for armor
and weapon upgrades because of "easy combat"
Boring no challenge
because of "easy combat"
30 days of content,
no replay, like single player
Complex graphics,
harder to make
Complex graphics ,
expensive
Complex graphics ,
slow development
Complex graphics,
small game
ZONING, instead of
seamless
In 15 years I've
asked the same question never an answer:
Did you ask for all
of this or did companies and developers act on their own ??
Do you need this??
Do you demand all of
this ?
Why are you
defending this!!... AND PUTTING THE BLAME ON THE PLAYERS !!!
I agree with you on this list other than Zoning.
EZ combat and Complex graphics seems to be at the root of most of the problems.
As graphics have become more complex, gameplay has decreased. Not sure if this is just a coincidence or part of the wider problem. I do think devs are out of touch with the masses.
Many of you are saying we created this, but in the last decade many of these games have failed or have very few subscribers compared to before. So wallet voting is not working well. There is always going to be someone that will buy anything. The large majority has exited and all this caused was AAA devs to exit also.
I honestly dont know the answer, other than the AAA studios getting good management that has a clue about the various different playerbases.
Management has a very clear picture about what people will pay for, hence gaming overall makes money hand over fist year over year, just not so much in the newer MMORPG space.
Zenimax, SQENIX, Blizzard, all have chosen to keep milking their existing MMORPGs and invest their money elsewhere.
Most developers won't even bother with the genre, they just don't see a proven model of big return so they want to build the next Pokemon Go or the like.
When I worked for the top CD/ DVD company, the head accountant/head manager would say, make the money today, forget about tomorrow, we may not be in this job later to care.
I suspect whoever said that had some kind of scheme involving compound interest. I get the feeling that all that game companies are doing is collecting seed money for someone's long-term investment plan.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
MMORPG games is not that big of a market. Games like Fortnite make a lot more money. Even Candy Crush makes more money.
For example, Star Citizen might be one of the most lucrative titles now, bringing in over 1/2 a billion so far. Fortnite makes FIVE BILLION A YEAR, every year.
If you are an investor looking to invest in computer gaming, why would you back an MMO? They take much longer to make, cost more to make, and have a much smaller market. Plus, that market is fickle, like in this post.
Sure it's not a big market anymore. I just listed 17 reasons why.
Cant you people remember anything, I just posted this this morning.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
MMORPG games is not that big of a market. Games like Fortnite make a lot more money. Even Candy Crush makes more money.
For example, Star Citizen might be one of the most lucrative titles now, bringing in over 1/2 a billion so far. Fortnite makes FIVE BILLION A YEAR, every year.
If you are an investor looking to invest in computer gaming, why would you back an MMO? They take much longer to make, cost more to make, and have a much smaller market. Plus, that market is fickle, like in this post.
Sure it's not a big market anymore. I just listed 17 reasons why.
Cant you people remember anything, I just posted this this morning.
It never was that big of a market. No MMO, with the possible exception of WoW, has even come close to the higher earning games like Fortnite. It has nothing to do with the features of the game, MMO's are just not that big of a market and never were.
It's not like there was some golden age of MMO's where they were the big sellers, and now they've fallen. ESO, WoW, and FF14 are all doing well, as well as any MMO, and their revenue pales compared to many other games like Fortnite.
MMORPG games is not that big of a market. Games like Fortnite make a lot more money. Even Candy Crush makes more money.
For example, Star Citizen might be one of the most lucrative titles now, bringing in over 1/2 a billion so far. Fortnite makes FIVE BILLION A YEAR, every year.
If you are an investor looking to invest in computer gaming, why would you back an MMO? They take much longer to make, cost more to make, and have a much smaller market. Plus, that market is fickle, like in this post.
Sure it's not a big market anymore. I just listed 17 reasons why.
Cant you people remember anything, I just posted this this morning.
It never was that big of a market. No MMO, with the possible exception of WoW, has even come close to the higher earning games like Fortnite. It has nothing to do with the features of the game, MMO's are just not that big of a market and never were.
It's not like there was some golden age of MMO's where they were the big sellers, and now they've fallen. ESO, WoW, and FF14 are all doing well, as well as any MMO, and their revenue pales compared to many other games like Fortnite.
Not everything is fortnite, MMO genre used to be near the top of sales. Just look at even ESO, they didnt even make another Elder Scrolls 6 because they didnt want it to mess up their ESO subs.
$200 per year + buy to play + expansions for these sub games is more than 4x what games that are strictly buy to play make. So yeah fortnite is at the top so suddenly no other markets make money? LOL geez.
As for "easy combat" you can make it as easy or difficult as you want...it has pretty much always been this way.....You can take your level 10 character to the level 5 zone and dominate, or you can go to the level 20 zone and die....We have options....Most people dont understand that gamers almost always take the path of least resistance...it was that way in 2000, it is that way now.....If it takes 15 minutes to gain a level in zone A, or an hour to gain a level in zone B, guess where most gamers are going?
We are sorry you lost your precious sub model, but it went away because it was no longer feasible.....90% of these games would be gone if it was strictly a sub model in 2023..... Games went F2P so they could survive and have a playerbase.
You know Delete, instead of having a rant and throwing out some some bits based off of opinion, why don't you actually give some examples to prove your point.
For example, you say zoning is one of your 17 (really much less) points but we all know that Final Fantasy 14 is zoned and is one of the most popular mmorpg's. I would say Elder Scrolls Online is also zoned and is very popular.
So that doesn't seem correct.
Same goes with your idea that "story" lends to mmorpg's to being a core problem but, again, Final Fantasy 14, Elder Scrolls Online, Star Wars the Old Republic are all story based and all popular.
I would offer that World of Warcraft has many stories with an overlying story and is also very popular.
So that doesn't seem correct.
You mentioned many combat examples but I've tried a lot of mmorpg's available and I don't see many, if any, of them ever having difficult combat.
Anyone can makes statements but actually defending those statements? Well, it appears that some can't do that.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
You know Delete, instead of having a rant and throwing out some some bits based off of opinion, why don't you actually give some examples to prove your point.
For example, you say zoning is one of your 17 (really much less) points but we all know that Final Fantasy 14 is zoned and is one of the most popular mmorpg's. I would say Elder Scrolls Online is also zoned and is very popular.
So that doesn't seem correct.
Same goes with your idea that "story" lends to mmorpg's to being a core problem but, again, Final Fantasy 14, Elder Scrolls Online, Star Wars the Old Republic are all story based and all popular.
I would offer that World of Warcraft has many stories with an overlying story and is also very popular.
So that doesn't seem correct.
You mentioned many combat examples but I've tried a lot of mmorpg's available and I don't see many, if any, of them ever having difficult combat.
Anyone can makes statements but actually defending those statements? Well, it appears that some can't do that.
I think the OP's post is intuitive and is almost directly on target. I agree some actual examples could make a better case.
His post is no different than 95% of the other posters here that offer just opinions with zero facts at all. Seems to be right in line with this site. Why are you going after his post personally. Do you go after all the other nonsense opinion posts also?
Seems a few people are just tag teaming his posts for some reason.
You know Delete, instead of having a rant and throwing out some some bits based off of opinion, why don't you actually give some examples to prove your point.
For example, you say zoning is one of your 17 (really much less) points but we all know that Final Fantasy 14 is zoned and is one of the most popular mmorpg's. I would say Elder Scrolls Online is also zoned and is very popular.
So that doesn't seem correct.
Same goes with your idea that "story" lends to mmorpg's to being a core problem but, again, Final Fantasy 14, Elder Scrolls Online, Star Wars the Old Republic are all story based and all popular.
I would offer that World of Warcraft has many stories with an overlying story and is also very popular.
So that doesn't seem correct.
You mentioned many combat examples but I've tried a lot of mmorpg's available and I don't see many, if any, of them ever having difficult combat.
Anyone can makes statements but actually defending those statements? Well, it appears that some can't do that.
I think the OP's post is intuitive and is almost directly on target. I agree some actual examples could make a better case.
His post is no different than 95% of the other posters here that offer just opinions with zero facts at all. Seems to be right in line with this site. Why are you going after his post personally. Do you go after all the other nonsense opinion posts also?
Seems a few people are just tag teaming his posts for some reason.
I do think his post is different than the majority of posts out there. You're just throwing out numbers.
I like that Delete is willing to state his thoughts but very much don't like that they never have anything to back them up.
I don't think he means them to be nonsense any more than another poster might post their thoughts on games or the genre.
He definitely can drive discussion but it would be a LOT better if he had something to really say, some real insight or something to offer other than something that another might attribute as a "nonsense post."
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
But I have absolutely asked for -Story driven instead
of player driven
-No need for "abilities" for easy combat, they ALL WORK
-Complex graphics,
harder to make -Complex graphics ,
expensive -Complex graphics ,
slow development
1) Graphics are great, I aint gonna play a game with rly bad outdated graphics no matter how good it is hence why I havent played of the popular hades games.
2) Story is a huge priority to keep people invested, the story is what makes the world interest.
I really dont give a damn about the drama that caused a player driven guild to drop and other dumb things that happen between players.
3)Casual content absolutely needs to be easy, casuals bring in the $$$, not a sad tryhard need who spends all their day playing and has connected their self worth to a VIDEO GAME.
Harder content should absolutely exist but not shoved in everyone's faces, all games that tried to force harder content on casuals failed because casuals will leave before as you say "git gud" since unlike the tryhards, their self worth doesnt depend on a video game.
4) As for crafting, most games these days have butchered crafting exactly because the tryhard raidloggers complain it lessens their """"achiebment"""" so crafting has trash power rewards most of the time.
Crafting is all about grinding and making cool stuff, but if said cool stuff are literally useless trash compared to a raid weapon, there's no point grinding to make an inferior weapon, even if you dont do raid just buy a boost and you ll save so much more time than grinding crafting and get a superior weapon.
i know this is off topic but how does that little string cover someones butthole ? why would anyone want to wear that voluntarily lol
on topic : I'm seeing more p 2 w stuff, even though I really like RIft, they got some p2w. Like armor, but you can buy them with game currency so it is kind of meh,
Most mmos will be f2p unless they offer something unique to the genre.
I feel compelled to point out that the ones below all only share one "Core Problem" which is easy combat (according to you) and the others you listed are just symptoms of that core problem.
Easy combat
No need for "abilities" for easy combat, they ALL WORK
No need for crafting because of "easy combat"
Don't need others because of "easy combat"
No need for armor and weapon upgrades because of "easy combat"
Boring no challenge because of "easy combat"
So on the plus side we just cut your list down from 17 to 12!
You are welcome!
PS: Also looks like these 4 also share the same "Core Problem" which is (according to you post) Complex Graphics..
Complex graphics, harder to make
Complex graphics , expensive
Complex graphics , slow development
Complex graphics, small game
So we knocked another 3 down and got your initial list of 17 Core Problems down to a more manageable 9!
Now let's look at whether or not players really want more challenging combat in MMORPGS, especially in the open world.
One game often offered up as an example of such hidden demand is Elden Ring.
Yet one analysis shows players did manage to average well over 100 hrs played, yet these figures are rounding errors when it comes to MMORPGs.
Other sources suggest that while Elden Ring is one of the most completed games, it also wracks up double the amount of reported players who walked away, with guesstimate of about 50% never completing the main story line.
Challenging combat in the open world might be a lot of fun in the short term, but there not a lot of modern evidence players would want such for 2000 plus hours ... because, as mentioned, no Dev has created such
I'm not sure how you draw any conclusion about challenging combat here. There are other factors involved, surely.
I'd be surprised if most story driven games don't lose at least 50% of their player base before completing it. But that's actually an exceptional retention number. I think it's been quite a few years now since WoW came out with their retention numbers for new accounts. It was 30%.
I've spent a large part of my working life in sales, and 33% was the goal by all "one-off" types of sales. (As opposed to accounts.)
If you're saying that they kept 50%, then either SP games are different (could be) or they had phenomenal success.
i know this is off topic but how does that little string cover someones butthole ? why would anyone want to wear that voluntarily lol
on topic : I'm seeing more p 2 w stuff, even though I really like RIft, they got some p2w. Like armor, but you can buy them with game currency so it is kind of meh,
Most mmos will be f2p unless they offer something unique to the genre.
Off topic answered: try to guess. Sex sells. Even when you don't look anything special in person. But people who pose with butt shots and what not ... a bit (or a lot in most cases) of Photoshop and ... they know how to present or, rather, sell themselves.
On topic: Who's exactly defending these super aggressive monetizations? And if someone is, fake accounts(=devs / pubs masquerading as normal members) exist. If you ask me? Cash shops are fine. But it needs some regulation. Economic Liberty is fine, but Wild West? Excuse me?
This contributes nothing to the discussion, It's actually just an example of trolling and insulting other members for no reason .Mods should adress this accordingly to there rules.
Please, bring it on.
The OP is insulting everyone including you, but I'm the bad guy, as usual. The OP can't write a post without filling it with insults towards anyone that is not him. We are bad gamers, we eat shit, etc... yeah, yeah.
Yep, I admit it, I have zero respect for people like the OP. And if it gets me banned, to be honest, I don't give a shit. I'm not the one having a life that miserable that the only thing I'm doing is going on gaming sites to insult gamers.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Who voted for the changes ??..... Better yet where did you go to vote, because I missed out.
Voting is such a 20th century notion. Succumbing to threats of social and economic violence is the Modality of our time. Anyone with real talent would never get involved in game development.
In a consumer culture people vote with their wallets which of course is heavily influenced by advertising.
Problem is, the only votes which actually count are when someone actually spends money, hence pay for advantage became popular because developers found out some decently sized group of players will pay money regularly for such, so game design shifted to the paying player base
It was a very slippery slope in 08 - 10 when people starting yelling that they would pay to test games.. Devs and Pubs heard this loud and clear and started offering up paid betas , instead of selecting testers.. They soon found that gamers woukd pay for most anything that gave access or advantage.. And here we are.The op has a point we created much of this , only way to stop it is stop paying for or using the services that bastardidize,homogenized the genre.
I have paid back then to get my DVD for the beta of Star Wars Galaxies. It's not that new.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
This contributes nothing to the discussion, It's actually just an example of trolling and insulting other members for no reason .Mods should adress this accordingly to there rules.
Please, bring it on.
The OP is insulting everyone including you, but I'm the bad guy, as usual. The OP can't write a post without filling it with insults towards anyone that is not him. We are bad gamers, we eat shit, etc... yeah, yeah.
Yep, I admit it, I have zero respect for people like the OP. And if it gets me banned, to be honest, I don't give a shit. I'm not the one having a life that miserable that the only thing I'm doing is going on gaming sites to insult gamers.
I don't see anywhere in this thread that Delete has insulted anyone, but is he fed up with the MMORPG player base, yes he is. Point out where where he has insulted anyone in this thread.
You are doing what you usually do, taking a pot shot at any poster who in the past has posted something you really don't like. In fact they could post anything, you will go for them if you see the opportunity, yet you think it is Delete that should concern us on here?
Apparently (I am not sure if it is even true) you put me on your ignore list, so you won't see this unless someone quotes me, so if someone could do that it would allow Korrigan to keep that pretense up. I say pretence because you do not strike me as the sort of person who would be comfortable with having posters who you dislike posting without you realising what they are saying.
I feel compelled to point out that the ones below all only share one "Core Problem" which is easy combat (according to you) and the others you listed are just symptoms of that core problem.
Easy combat
No need for "abilities" for easy combat, they ALL WORK
No need for crafting because of "easy combat"
Don't need others because of "easy combat"
No need for armor and weapon upgrades because of "easy combat"
Boring no challenge because of "easy combat"
So on the plus side we just cut your list down from 17 to 12!
You are welcome!
PS: Also looks like these 4 also share the same "Core Problem" which is (according to you post) Complex Graphics..
Complex graphics, harder to make
Complex graphics , expensive
Complex graphics , slow development
Complex graphics, small game
So we knocked another 3 down and got your initial list of 17 Core Problems down to a more manageable 9!
Now let's look at whether or not players really want more challenging combat in MMORPGS, especially in the open world.
One game often offered up as an example of such hidden demand is Elden Ring.
Yet one analysis shows players did manage to average well over 100 hrs played, yet these figures are rounding errors when it comes to MMORPGs.
Other sources suggest that while Elden Ring is one of the most completed games, it also wracks up double the amount of reported players who walked away, with guesstimate of about 50% never completing the main story line.
Challenging combat in the open world might be a lot of fun in the short term, but there not a lot of modern evidence players would want such for 2000 plus hours ... because, as mentioned, no Dev has created such
I think you are positing too much from one game, but I still agree with you, there is little evidence elsewhere that players want too much difficulty. "Dark Souls like" does suggest they want more difficulty though, the question is how much?
I remember that share holders meeting at Sony or Nintendo was it? Where a shareholder questioned the decline in difficulty of their products. The head of the studio lamented that situation and said something like "Each year we do testing that looks at what difficulty we should set this year games at, it never comes back saying we should make things harder." For some of the old school guys in the studio this is not what they want, but they are giving the customer what they seem to demand.
So how much more difficulty could be put in todays MMOs? What I would suggest is that MMOs have more sliding difficulty scales built in, so designers can see the reaction to difficulty in the alpha stage.
But we have to face the realisation, no matter how easy it is there will be players asking for it to be easier, it will take a strong willed team to stand against that.
Comments
Free to play isn’t an issue in and of itself. It’s how some companies use it.
cash shops same thing.
pay to win is bad but there is no consensus as to what that is. Example: pay to win in a pve game? Ridiculous.
some people like story driven so that’s opinion.
questing has always been bad.
you repeat yourself with the easy combat stuff so same answer stands.
single player games are only repeatable if they offer replayability.
many people like complex graphics so just opinion once again.
zoning is a technical decision and not all games are zoned as people think of zoning. I believe technically all games have zones.
so most of this is wrong some opinion and one question depends on the definition.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Forgot already ?..... this post is only a few hours old
One game often offered up as an example of such hidden demand is Elden Ring.
Yet one analysis shows players did manage to average well over 100 hrs played, yet these figures are rounding errors when it comes to MMORPGs.
https://howlongtobeat.com/game/68151
Other sources suggest that while Elden Ring is one of the most completed games, it also wracks up double the amount of reported players who walked away, with guesstimate of about 50% never completing the main story line.
Challenging combat in the open world might be a lot of fun in the short term, but there not a lot of modern evidence players would want such for 2000 plus hours ... because, as mentioned, no Dev has created such
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Or maybe they just go off and have a nice game of chess.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Cant you people remember anything, I just posted this this morning.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
$200 per year + buy to play + expansions for these sub games is more than 4x what games that are strictly buy to play make. So yeah fortnite is at the top so suddenly no other markets make money? LOL geez.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
His post is no different than 95% of the other posters here that offer just opinions with zero facts at all. Seems to be right in line with this site. Why are you going after his post personally. Do you go after all the other nonsense opinion posts also?
Seems a few people are just tag teaming his posts for some reason.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
-Story driven instead of player driven
-Complex graphics , expensive
-Complex graphics , slow development
There are other factors involved, surely.
I'd be surprised if most story driven games don't lose at least 50% of their player base before completing it. But that's actually an exceptional retention number.
I think it's been quite a few years now since WoW came out with their retention numbers for new accounts. It was 30%.
I've spent a large part of my working life in sales, and 33% was the goal by all "one-off" types of sales. (As opposed to accounts.)
If you're saying that they kept 50%, then either SP games are different (could be) or they had phenomenal success.
Once upon a time....
On topic: Who's exactly defending these super aggressive monetizations? And if someone is, fake accounts(=devs / pubs masquerading as normal members) exist. If you ask me? Cash shops are fine. But it needs some regulation. Economic Liberty is fine, but Wild West? Excuse me?
The OP is insulting everyone including you, but I'm the bad guy, as usual. The OP can't write a post without filling it with insults towards anyone that is not him. We are bad gamers, we eat shit, etc... yeah, yeah.
Yep, I admit it, I have zero respect for people like the OP. And if it gets me banned, to be honest, I don't give a shit. I'm not the one having a life that miserable that the only thing I'm doing is going on gaming sites to insult gamers.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I have paid back then to get my DVD for the beta of Star Wars Galaxies. It's not that new.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
You are doing what you usually do, taking a pot shot at any poster who in the past has posted something you really don't like. In fact they could post anything, you will go for them if you see the opportunity, yet you think it is Delete that should concern us on here?
Apparently (I am not sure if it is even true) you put me on your ignore list, so you won't see this unless someone quotes me, so if someone could do that it would allow Korrigan to keep that pretense up. I say pretence because you do not strike me as the sort of person who would be comfortable with having posters who you dislike posting without you realising what they are saying.
I remember that share holders meeting at Sony or Nintendo was it? Where a shareholder questioned the decline in difficulty of their products. The head of the studio lamented that situation and said something like "Each year we do testing that looks at what difficulty we should set this year games at, it never comes back saying we should make things harder." For some of the old school guys in the studio this is not what they want, but they are giving the customer what they seem to demand.
So how much more difficulty could be put in todays MMOs? What I would suggest is that MMOs have more sliding difficulty scales built in, so designers can see the reaction to difficulty in the alpha stage.
But we have to face the realisation, no matter how easy it is there will be players asking for it to be easier, it will take a strong willed team to stand against that.