The drop in sub price is a surprise as that immediately hits their long term revenue (and thereby funding) for the game. Decreasing the box price is a smart move but they still don't have a strong enough value proposition to get people on the fence to shell out even that box price. Until they provide a standard trial (not free weekends but sign up and get 3 or 7 days free), I just don't see enough people taking the plunge to dramatically increase their player base. I give them credit for making changes as they go, but by the time they do allow a standard trial I worry it may be too late....
I think everyone who subscribed in 2022 was already getting their subscription with launch discount at $9.99. The number of people subscribing at 14.99$ a month was likely very small.
Let's not forget that this used to be called Saga of Lucimia and the main guy Refail bailed on it and pulled a Dean Hall like the guy that abandoned Day Z.
Did he bail or was he forced out? I thought he was forced out.
It was a while ago the old memory is not what it used to be so I'll take your word for it. That's not much better really.
Apparently he and his brother "stepped away" and he started working on something else so it made me think of Dean Hall.
Just to give some context. When the CEO Anderson was there, they had magic and fantasy enemies like trolls.
When he left the team completely reversed and took out all the magic and fantasy mobs, and went to a "non-magic and non-fantasy" setting. Its only after release have they reversed again and started adding a few fantasy mobs back into the game after their game completely tanked at release.
I will tell you straight, that 1 single change probably cost them at least 10x-50x the players. This had to be the stupidest decision I have ever heard of for an mmo, especially since the content was already in the game.
I dont know why the CEO/Bro left/forced out was. But I can easily see a scenario where he was put into a no-win scenario. The lead dev (only programmer) could easily have said if you dont leave I am going to quit. It could have been over the above reason for all I know.
So leaving voluntarily or being forced out is all subjective and I dont know enough details to know what the real reasons were. Pretty sure it had to be something big like either a vision reset, or a personality conflict with the lead dev or money backer.
The lead dev and also the CEO was real cocky so I wouldnt be surprised if it was personality conflict, but this is normal with Type A personalities. So without more detail, we are in the dark.
I didn't know about the removing the fantasy aspect. Holy cow that is definitely the stupidest thing I think I've ever heard a MMO do and I've seen a lot of stupid. That's Star Wars Galaxies NGE level stupid.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
They had as many or more people playing this in beta as they do now. I dont think there is really anything this company can do to really change the numbers. When I say numbers I am talking profit. They can go free, get more players but I dont see how that will make them more money.
This game is in a real bind because the playerbase completely evaporated, as was predicted by many in testing.
Just educated guessing some numbers here.
They might have got 3k-10k people buying this game at retail, probably very optimistic but who knows. 10k x 40 = $400k, so that might be like 1 year of operating expenses plus paying off some of the debt they accumulated and will need to lay some people off.
Subs are pretty irrelevant right now, 100-500 players total? $1k-$5k p/mo at best. They have about 50 concurrent at peak thats counting at least 6 employees logging in characters.
Lets say they just got 1 year of funding because of launch and people buying the game.
Basically stop working on the current version of the game and let it ride out, maybe even remove the sub to garner some additional players to buy-in.
THEN start now and deligently work on this game adding new features, switching to magic and fantasy etc... Let 1 year of changes accumulate then rerelease the game on steam with B2P and optional sub, make new separate servers with all the new content and pray.
These guys are not smart enough to do anything this radical in a time frame that would give them time to make a decent product. More likely they will just launch on steam the same shady version of this game and it will die in 1 month just like before. So I dont see them saving this game from being a total disappointment.
If what I've read about the game play (or lack thereof) is true even F2P isn't really going to increase the revenues much as they didn't really design for that model.
Of course, they could offer to sell bots of varying abilities, sort of how GW1 had so players could create their own group or fill a slot if other players weren't available.
Might be able to easily get $25 per role, and say a discount for purchasing the complete set of 4 or whatever.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If what I've read about the game play (or lack thereof) is true even F2P isn't really going to increase the revenues much as they didn't really design for that model.
Of course, they could offer to sell bots of varying abilities, sort of how GW1 had so players could create their own group or fill a slot if other players weren't available.
Might be able to easily get $25 per role, and say a discount for purchasing the complete set of 4 or whatever.
Even if this game wanted to, I doubt they have the skills to even pull that off.
Not only that, the few remaining players I believe would totally reject that model.
What made me annoyed is I went to the website and saw this-
"LOW FANTASY ENVIRONMENT
No quest hubs. No mini-maps. No railroads. Experience an ever-expanding world of adventure."
Low fantasy has nothing at all to do with quest hubs or mini-maps. It's like if I had a website for a game and it said-
"SCI-FI ENVIRONMENT
No boots. No Cheetos. No arm-wrestling. Experience and ever-expanding universe of adventure."
It there a petty annoyance contest going on?
Embers Adrift does have a low fantasy environment without quest hubs, mini-maps or railroading. The only thing questionable is how ever-expanding it will be.
That it was formatted slightly awkwardly doesn't prevent it from providing the information it intended to.
The drop in sub price is a surprise as that immediately hits their long term revenue (and thereby funding) for the game. Decreasing the box price is a smart move but they still don't have a strong enough value proposition to get people on the fence to shell out even that box price. Until they provide a standard trial (not free weekends but sign up and get 3 or 7 days free), I just don't see enough people taking the plunge to dramatically increase their player base. I give them credit for making changes as they go, but by the time they do allow a standard trial I worry it may be too late....
I think everyone who subscribed in 2022 was already getting their subscription with launch discount at $9.99. The number of people subscribing at 14.99$ a month was likely very small.
It was so, up until the end of the year. Now that the lock in price is the same as the ongoing price I wonder if early purchasers will get a different recognition for their commitment.
You don't simply mimic old designs. That's... Painfully obvious to anyone who has ever booted up classics like BG2 or EQ.
You find the best parts, discard what doesn't enhance the experience, refine the things that did enhance the experience. Simply mimicking the past won't work. You gotta bring it forward in a way that retains the spirit but delivers it in a more evolved way than those more primitive, older titles
You don't simply mimic old designs. That's... Painfully obvious to anyone who has ever booted up classics like BG2 or EQ.
You find the best parts, discard what doesn't enhance the experience, refine the things that did enhance the experience. Simply mimicking the past won't work. You gotta bring it forward in a way that retains the spirit but delivers it in a more evolved way than those more primitive, older titles
In addition, games need to *expand* on the experience, adding new things to the mix. Simply mimicking past games won't ever do anything to grow the genre. There haven't been enough companies pushing the envelope, therefore the MMORPG field is stagnant.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
You don't simply mimic old designs. That's... Painfully obvious to anyone who has ever booted up classics like BG2 or EQ.
You find the best parts, discard what doesn't enhance the experience, refine the things that did enhance the experience. Simply mimicking the past won't work. You gotta bring it forward in a way that retains the spirit but delivers it in a more evolved way than those more primitive, older titles
In addition, games need to *expand* on the experience, adding new things to the mix. Simply mimicking past games won't ever do anything to grow the genre. There haven't been enough companies pushing the envelope, therefore the MMORPG field is stagnant.
Maybe. Mostly.
But in my heart I still think an actual DAoC 2, which mimicked the first game but had updated graphics, ui, and smoother network for battles would be a homerun.
Camelot Unchained is not that game by the way.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You don't simply mimic old designs. That's... Painfully obvious to anyone who has ever booted up classics like BG2 or EQ.
You find the best parts, discard what doesn't enhance the experience, refine the things that did enhance the experience. Simply mimicking the past won't work. You gotta bring it forward in a way that retains the spirit but delivers it in a more evolved way than those more primitive, older titles
In addition, games need to *expand* on the experience, adding new things to the mix. Simply mimicking past games won't ever do anything to grow the genre. There haven't been enough companies pushing the envelope, therefore the MMORPG field is stagnant.
Maybe. Mostly.
But in my heart I still think an actual DAoC 2, which mimicked the first game but had updated graphics, ui, and smoother network for battles would be a homerun.
Camelot Unchained is not that game by the way.
A revamped DAoC 2 with graphics, UI and network updates could be great, phenomenal, even. It might have a solid 5+ year run. But the genre wouldn't really have changed, evolved or improved.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Comments
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/This game is in a real bind because the playerbase completely evaporated, as was predicted by many in testing.
Just educated guessing some numbers here.
They might have got 3k-10k people buying this game at retail, probably very optimistic but who knows. 10k x 40 = $400k, so that might be like 1 year of operating expenses plus paying off some of the debt they accumulated and will need to lay some people off.
Subs are pretty irrelevant right now, 100-500 players total? $1k-$5k p/mo at best. They have about 50 concurrent at peak thats counting at least 6 employees logging in characters.
Lets say they just got 1 year of funding because of launch and people buying the game.
Basically stop working on the current version of the game and let it ride out, maybe even remove the sub to garner some additional players to buy-in.
These guys are not smart enough to do anything this radical in a time frame that would give them time to make a decent product. More likely they will just launch on steam the same shady version of this game and it will die in 1 month just like before. So I dont see them saving this game from being a total disappointment.
Of course, they could offer to sell bots of varying abilities, sort of how GW1 had so players could create their own group or fill a slot if other players weren't available.
Might be able to easily get $25 per role, and say a discount for purchasing the complete set of 4 or whatever.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Not only that, the few remaining players I believe would totally reject that model.
Embers Adrift does have a low fantasy environment without quest hubs, mini-maps or railroading. The only thing questionable is how ever-expanding it will be.
That it was formatted slightly awkwardly doesn't prevent it from providing the information it intended to.
It was so, up until the end of the year. Now that the lock in price is the same as the ongoing price I wonder if early purchasers will get a different recognition for their commitment.
You find the best parts, discard what doesn't enhance the experience, refine the things that did enhance the experience. Simply mimicking the past won't work. You gotta bring it forward in a way that retains the spirit but delivers it in a more evolved way than those more primitive, older titles
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
But in my heart I still think an actual DAoC 2, which mimicked the first game but had updated graphics, ui, and smoother network for battles would be a homerun.
Camelot Unchained is not that game by the way.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.