The acceptance of mentally unhealthy behaviours in gaming

Ralphie2449

There's a number of arguments I have seen frequently that base themselves completely on accepting mentally ill behaviours as something normal and accepted instead of something utterly unhealthy that should not be accepted, a few examples:

-"People like to show off X item/gear/cosmetic etc"

Are people stack in murican highschool? Adults by this point are meant to know that if someone wastes a ton of money on an expensive car to show off(Because they live in a society that has colonized their brain with "expensive car=cool"), they arent very mentally healthy because they have not bought the car for its utility or value, but because they are desperate for attention and to be liked by others. That is the core reason they need to show off, not because they like the car itself or find it useful, they have now lost money because they were desperate for social admiration.

Same thing happens in games, justifying systems and mechanics with this argument is pretty much showing how desperate and unhealthy many people are for social admiration rather than because of the item's utility or personal enjoyment.

-"Efficiency is fun"

This argument almost always comes up when someone points out someone's metaslavery and obsession over "efficiency", almost an instinctual response because they know very well, if a person truly is having fun in a video game, they dont care about efficiency because fun is all there is and no extra "processes" are required.

Now of course I am not saying build crafting is not fun, people can enjoy improving a build they like but that often happens because they enjoy certain weapon/style or utility and want to make a build that maximizes their enjoyment of said weapon/style or utility.
That is not what metaslaves do, metaslaves dont care about personal enjoyment of gameplay, weapon or utility because those dont matter, all that matters to them is using whatever does the often theoretical highest dps.

Which leads to the utterly degenerate situation of "I am playing something I hate because it does more dps because I am desperate to win"
At which point not only are they showing how desperate they are for the feeling of "win" but in reality they are reducing the difficulty of the encounter by stacking advantages on top of advantages not intended by the devs since broken builds will always be a thing since perfect balance is unattainable in mmos.

So not only are they desperate to have an external source(The game/devs), to tell them they "won", they are doing it by lowering its difficulty and these are the same people who will see around proudly believe themselves great l33t players.

-"If everyone has X item, it is no longer special"

This is again another incredibly mentally ill argument, it pretty much admits that the item itself has no value and the only thing that has value is the ARTIFICIAL scarcity.

They dont care if the item is fun, fits their playstyle or looks cool, they only care that others dont have it so again, they feel ARTIFICIALLY special. Again all actual value and utility becomes irrelevant because these people are desperate for social admiration and to feel unique "not like the other gurls".

So how can anyone take people who use such arguments seriously when they clearly havent understood themselves how mentally unhealthy they are and desperate for external validation.

Video games were meant to be about personal enjoyment, but more and more people are addicted to video games for pretty unhealthy reasons and those are just a few examples.

Gorwe

Who are you to judge those activities? Maybe someone likes to show off or grind their ass off so he can show the fruits of his labor? I will agree with you that those are WRONG motivations that can EASILY lead you astray, but ... there are people who like getting flogged(or worse). Degeneracy of a human mind really knows no bounds.

I will agree, however, with your second argument. Being efficient and theorycrafting IS fun, but there is a sane limit to it. When people "metaslave", as you put it, that's entirely out of control. Then again, some DO play to win(=the process of winning is what's fun or rather pleasurable to them), so.../shrug. Regardless, when I see people with killer PCs playing CS(for example) at the LOWEST POSSIBLE SETTING...come on! This can't be healthy, it just can't be. Why'd anyone spend, idk, 4000$ only to play the game that looks like it's from the year 2000? >.<

Dattelis

Ralphie2449 said:

There's a number of arguments I have seen frequently that base themselves completely on accepting mentally ill behaviours as something normal and accepted instead of something utterly unhealthy that should not be accepted, a few examples:

-"People like to show off X item/gear/cosmetic etc"

Are people stack in murican highschool? Adults by this point are meant to know that if someone wastes a ton of money on an expensive car to show off(Because they live in a society that has colonized their brain with "expensive car=cool"), they arent very mentally healthy because they have not bought the car for its utility or value, but because they are desperate for attention and to be liked by others. That is the core reason they need to show off, not because they like the car itself or find it useful, they have now lost money because they were desperate for social admiration.

Same thing happens in games, justifying systems and mechanics with this argument is pretty much showing how desperate and unhealthy many people are for social admiration rather than because of the item's utility or personal enjoyment.

-"Efficiency is fun"

This argument almost always comes up when someone points out someone's metaslavery and obsession over "efficiency", almost an instinctual response because they know very well, if a person truly is having fun in a video game, they dont care about efficiency because fun is all there is and no extra "processes" are required.

Now of course I am not saying build crafting is not fun, people can enjoy improving a build they like but that often happens because they enjoy certain weapon/style or utility and want to make a build that maximizes their enjoyment of said weapon/style or utility.
That is not what metaslaves do, metaslaves dont care about personal enjoyment of gameplay, weapon or utility because those dont matter, all that matters to them is using whatever does the often theoretical highest dps.

Which leads to the utterly degenerate situation of "I am playing something I hate because it does more dps because I am desperate to win"
At which point not only are they showing how desperate they are for the feeling of "win" but in reality they are reducing the difficulty of the encounter by stacking advantages on top of advantages not intended by the devs since broken builds will always be a thing since perfect balance is unattainable in mmos.

So not only are they desperate to have an external source(The game/devs), to tell them they "won", they are doing it by lowering its difficulty and these are the same people who will see around proudly believe themselves great l33t players.

-"If everyone has X item, it is no longer special"

This is again another incredibly mentally ill argument, it pretty much admits that the item itself has no value and the only thing that has value is the ARTIFICIAL scarcity.

They dont care if the item is fun, fits their playstyle or looks cool, they only care that others dont have it so again, they feel ARTIFICIALLY special. Again all actual value and utility becomes irrelevant because these people are desperate for social admiration and to feel unique "not like the other gurls".

So how can anyone take people who use such arguments seriously when they clearly havent understood themselves how mentally unhealthy they are and desperate for external validation.

Video games were meant to be about personal enjoyment, but more and more people are addicted to video games for pretty unhealthy reasons and those are just a few examples.

Can I ask a simple question? Why would sports or other forms of entertainment be different when they have embodied all the things you have mentioned for far longer....? Are you saying a majority of people that have been engaging in forms of entertainment have been mentally unwell from the start? If so, how do are you going to change something that has been around arguably since the dawn of humanity? Or do you think competition only sprouted from video games?

To further deflate your logic: Merriam-Webster gives one definition of 'game' as "a physical or mental competition conducted according to rules with the participants in direct opposition to each other." There's no definition associated with any form of 'gaming' that says activities have to be for 'personal' entertainment, so your logic holds at most the same level weight compared to those that enjoy competition.

Just as you could put in that amount of effort into some form of logic as to why people should cater to your level of understanding, you can easily remove yourself from the equation and not deal with it at all. By that I mean, stick to games that cater to the things you want, which tend to be single player games, and do not look into information that pertains to such interests you have, so you can further avoid those 'problems' you believe seem to exist.

The title does hold merit though since there are many people that harbor very unhealthy habits that can cause them not to function 'properly' in real life depending on circumstances and should be further explored or at least acknowledged so those individuals do not feel alone and can find a way forward if they wish. Some behaviors include seclusion, escapism, etc which can further lead to conditions such as depression, anxiety, etc.

Scot

I think you are on thin ice calling them mentally unhealthy behaviours, unless this was just to grab attention? Clearly the activities you mention have nothing to do with mental health. Can people be addicted to video games, yes, but that's a separate issue.

AlBQuirky

I don't know about "your examples", but can think of of other, better ones. None of your examples strike as particularly "unhealthy."

Enjoying an "evil playthrough" is one I wonder about. Finding "enjoyment" in being evil (kicking puppies, backstabbing "friends", anarchy personified) has me wondering, even though it's "just a video game."

It IS a touchy subject, however. People don't like being "judged."

KnightFalz

AlBQuirky said:

I don't know about "your examples", but can think of of other, better ones. None of your examples strike as particularly "unhealthy."

Enjoying an "evil playthrough" is one I wonder about. Finding "enjoyment" in being evil (kicking puppies, backstabbing "friends", anarchy personified) has me wondering, even though it's "just a video game."

It IS a touchy subject, however. People don't like being "judged."

I don't see why role-playing an evil character would make the player more genuinely so than the portraying of one would make the actor.

A person may actually be evil and play characters according to their true nature but it's not something that could be assumed.

kitarad

IMO I do not think you're able to objectively make any observations or conclusions on why players do the things you pointed out because you yourself are very deeply involved in your own feelings of anger, envy, jealousy and impotence. While feeling all these things as evidenced from your previous threads and opinions you have expressed in which you have given us a window into your thoughts it is very hard to take your attempts to classify others as ill seriously or even as a discussion because you have an agenda and this is just another phase of that agenda.

Tiller

You know what I hate in MMOs, furries.

Not mention IRP in local chat.

Wordsworth

[citation needed]

finefluff

Your first argument criticizes people for not making the most efficient, utilitarian choice (buying a car that is fun to drive and looks cool). But your second argument criticizes people who do make the most efficient, utilitarian choice (using abilities that are the most effective at maximizing dps). Maybe you should try ChatGPT to help you make better arguments lol.

Your third argument doesn't understand the point its arguing against. The reason why something is rare is because it is difficult to obtain. Players want it to remain that way so that the game can have some aspirational goals they can work towards and because rare items add flavor to the game even if they are not attainable by you.

If everything is easy, then it gets boring. Games are fun when they have some challenge for you to overcome. Is it good for everything to be easily attainable because you think it looks cool so you can play with it for 2 minutes before you get bored and move on to the next thing?

The argument you present is almost like arguing for instant gratification, which is not always a good thing, and I would say that it is actually what is associated with worse mental health. 

Sovrath

I don't know man, I think people are far more complex than this.

Maybe people who love efficiency find it fun.

And just because someone purchases a sportscar or a luxury car doesn't mean that  it's all about "me me me."

It could be because they like the look and the style. Now, I'm sure there could be a little bit of "look at me" but it doesn't have to be all that.

I'm also a bit suspect of you calling people mentally ill. Maybe your need to point all of this out is evidence of some mental illness?

But again, I don't know as I'm not a licensed professional.

Maybe the healthier thing is to just "let it go?" Doesn't really affect you much and if you get into a group where someone wants "efficiency" then drop it. 

Sovrath

finefluff said:

Games are fun when they have some challenge for you to overcome. Is it good for everything to be easily attainable because you think it looks cool so you can play with it for 2 minutes before you get bored and move on to the next thing?

That's kind of a "your mileage may vary" type of thing.

I have two friends, not really interested in video games, but when they do play they prefer an interesting experience over any type of challenge.

My other friend has no interest but really liked the game "journey" because it was beautiful.

There's a reason walking simulators are enjoyed by many.

finefluff

Sovrath said:

finefluff said:

Games are fun when they have some challenge for you to overcome. Is it good for everything to be easily attainable because you think it looks cool so you can play with it for 2 minutes before you get bored and move on to the next thing?

That's kind of a "your mileage may vary" type of thing.

I have two friends, not really interested in video games, but when they do play they prefer an interesting experience over any type of challenge.

My other friend has no interest but really liked the game "journey" because it was beautiful.

There's a reason walking simulators are enjoyed by many.

That's a good point. Dark Souls 1 is no longer a challenging game for me, but I still enjoy playing through it. Although, I think I would get bored if I killed every boss and enemy in one hit. The challenge doesn't have to be extreme. I almost never play any game on the hardest difficulty.

I guess I was just thinking about the context of earning a reward in an MMO. The challenge can take different forms such as a long grind, a difficult encounter, a rare spawn, a puzzle, or loot with a low drop rate. These give goals that can feel satisfying to accomplish. I would say that there is a relationship between time, effort, and satisfaction. I would also say that there is a relationship between satisfaction and fun.

Can we be satisfied without having fun? Can we have fun without being satisfied? Is the point of playing a game to have fun or to be satisfied? Philosophical questions to ponder...

Sovrath

finefluff said:

That's a good point. Dark Souls 1 is no longer a challenging game for me, but I still enjoy playing through it. Although, I think I would get bored if I killed every boss and enemy in one hit. The challenge doesn't have to be extreme. I almost never play any game on the hardest difficulty.

I guess I was just thinking about the context of earning a reward in an MMO. The challenge can take different forms such as a long grind, a difficult encounter, a rare spawn, a puzzle, or loot with a low drop rate. These give goals that can feel satisfying to accomplish. I would say that there is a relationship between time, effort, and satisfaction. I would also say that there is a relationship between satisfaction and fun.

Can we be satisfied without having fun? Can we have fun without being satisfied? Is the point of playing a game to have fun or to be satisfied? Philosophical questions to ponder...

I think it goes back to why people play games.

And I also think different games promote different expectations.

I find the Souls games very satisfying once I finish an encounter. But for me it's rather hard because the controller is just not 2nd nature to me and the pc controls don't ever seem decent.

I agree that for those who are looking for a goal  or accomplishments, there is a sweet spot with regards to effort and time.

CAn one be satisfied without having fun? In Lineage 2 my clan leader and I ran a particular quest over and over and over again until we could afford D grade gear. It wasn't fun at all. But it allowed us to achieve a goal and that was satisfying.

I do think that everyone plays games to achieve though. Sometimes it's a unique experience or some telling of a story that drives them.

finefluff

Sovrath said:

finefluff said:

That's a good point. Dark Souls 1 is no longer a challenging game for me, but I still enjoy playing through it. Although, I think I would get bored if I killed every boss and enemy in one hit. The challenge doesn't have to be extreme. I almost never play any game on the hardest difficulty.

I guess I was just thinking about the context of earning a reward in an MMO. The challenge can take different forms such as a long grind, a difficult encounter, a rare spawn, a puzzle, or loot with a low drop rate. These give goals that can feel satisfying to accomplish. I would say that there is a relationship between time, effort, and satisfaction. I would also say that there is a relationship between satisfaction and fun.

Can we be satisfied without having fun? Can we have fun without being satisfied? Is the point of playing a game to have fun or to be satisfied? Philosophical questions to ponder...

I think it goes back to why people play games.

And I also think different games promote different expectations.

I find the Souls games very satisfying once I finish an encounter. But for me it's rather hard because the controller is just not 2nd nature to me and the pc controls don't ever seem decent.

I agree that for those who are looking for a goal  or accomplishments, there is a sweet spot with regards to effort and time.

CAn one be satisfied without having fun? In Lineage 2 my clan leader and I ran a particular quest over and over and over again until we could afford D grade gear. It wasn't fun at all. But it allowed us to achieve a goal and that was satisfying.

I do think that everyone plays games to achieve though. Sometimes it's a unique experience or some telling of a story that drives them.

Maybe "resistance" is a better word than "challenge." Overcoming resistance gives a sense of achievement. It's the difference between watching a playthrough of Journey and playing Journey yourself. There's still some effort involved in playing, some resistance to be overcome, however minimal, but that makes the experience more engaging.

Sometimes a player seeks more resistance. Sometimes less. Those difficult challenges fulfill players seeking more.

There is probably a competitive aspect to it as well. People naturally compare themselves to others and what they have accomplished and may become more motivated themselves. I don't think there is anything "mentally ill" about that as the OP might suggest. Some people may be more competitive, others less so. But I think the lashing out towards other who achieve more comes from a sense of inferiority.

Brainy

What I think is UNHEALTHY is  when someone thinks their point of view is the only one that is HEALTHY.

giantessfan

I don't agree with any of this and that is saying something because most of the time I could at least see someone's side of the argument even if I don't agree with it. 

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

HazenXIII

Brainy said:

What I think is UNHEALTHY is  when someone thinks their point of view is the only one that is HEALTHY.

This is the correct answer.

AAAMEOW

I think "most of the people" actually online and playing mmorpg right now play it as a grinding simulator.  They just keep doing the same thing every day for X rewards.  So much that efficiency obviously become a prime consern for them.

Because all they do is grind.  

I think the opposite spectrum are mmorpg player who explore, or hop from game to game etc.  

Brainy

AAAMEOW said:

I think "most of the people" actually online and playing mmorpg right now play it as a grinding simulator.  They just keep doing the same thing every day for X rewards.  So much that efficiency obviously become a prime consern for them.

Because all they do is grind.  

I think the opposite spectrum are mmorpg player who explore, or hop from game to game etc.  

I think most people would explore more if there was a reason too.  Many explorers, are motivated by the possibilites of what might exist.

Even in real life, what motivated explorers?  Fountain of youth, gold, fame, undescovered treasure in lost ancient village ...

Games now dont even bother, also online guides blow all the secrets.  One of the only ways to reward exploring today, would be making it random, or putting XP bonuses on mobs the longer they are alive.

cheyane

I am playing Star Wars Jedi : Fallen Order and I am playing it on story mode however the story mode does not make the platforming easier. On Zeffo there is one part where you have to move across these moving platforms and then do some wall walking to get on top. I think I died like 50 times trying to make it across because you have to time the jump to the next train as there are three trains and there is an important health increase reward at the end of that.

The first part of the jumping on the train was easy but the next part had this wall walking bit but I was just not getting it right only to be slammed by the train and wham! dead. I finally understood that I had to slow the train enough to allow me to climb on top of the train to get to the top. Beyond that was the really hard part of jumping across these three trains that I really was almost going to give up but finally managed in the end. I felt so elated that I did it. Yes, I am an awful player but my god the feeling I had after I accomplished that was really, really good.

You talk about it being a mental disease that people try to get something desperately. You never explained the victory or elation when you do manage it because that isn't your focus is it. When I played FFXIV I played according to how they explained things in videos on youtube to make sure I was very efficient in raids and dungeons which in your twisted opinion is evidence of mental disease. 

I am sorry but that is utter bullshit!

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The user and all related content has been deleted.

AAAMEOW

Brainy said:

AAAMEOW said:

I think "most of the people" actually online and playing mmorpg right now play it as a grinding simulator.  They just keep doing the same thing every day for X rewards.  So much that efficiency obviously become a prime consern for them.

Because all they do is grind.  

I think the opposite spectrum are mmorpg player who explore, or hop from game to game etc.  

I think most people would explore more if there was a reason too.  Many explorers, are motivated by the possibilites of what might exist.

Even in real life, what motivated explorers?  Fountain of youth, gold, fame, undescovered treasure in lost ancient village ...

Games now dont even bother, also online guides blow all the secrets.  One of the only ways to reward exploring today, would be making it random, or putting XP bonuses on mobs the longer they are alive.

If you actually play the same game for years every day, there isn't much to explore.  That's my point.  

I think most people actually playing mmorpg are just brain dead and do the same activitiy in the mmorpg every day.  

WhiteLantern

That's alot of words to say "If you don't think/act like I do, you are mentally unwell.".

WBadger

Taking armchair therapist to a whole new level when you arbitrarily decide what is and isn't mental issues over video games.  OP even says at the end that video games is about personal enjoyment but then tries to negate it with what he decides is bad reasoning to be into video games. Addiction bad.  OP's beliefs of the addiction? Arbitrary, opinionated, and completely subjective.