About 300 QA Workers at ZeniMax Studios Have Declared Intent to Unionize | MMORPG.com

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About 300 QA Workers at ZeniMax Studios Have Declared Intent to Unionize | MMORPG.com

About 300 QA workers at ZeniMax Studios have declared their intent to unionize. Microsoft, which owns the company, has vowed to remain neutral towards unionization and to recognize unions if employees vote for one.

Read the full story here

Slapshot1188

And so it continues.

Splattr

Recognizing a union and agreeing to any of its demands during contract negotiations are two completely different things.

Kyleran

Slapshot1188 said:

And so it continues.

At least this time it's a fairly substantial number of employees who are attempting to organize.

QA once again, guess those folks really don't get any respect, at least in the gaming industry.

Slapshot1188

Kyleran said:

Slapshot1188 said:

And so it continues.

At least this time it's a fairly substantial number of employees who are attempting to organize.

QA once again, guess those folks really don't get any respect, at least in the gaming industry.

I don't know about these guys, but the ones in Albany had over $21 an hour.  Which, for an entry level, low skill position seems fair.  But thats between them and the company.

They just shouldn't be surprised when someday theres an effort to "consolidate" in some other location.

Kyleran

Slapshot1188 said:

Kyleran said:

Slapshot1188 said:

And so it continues.

At least this time it's a fairly substantial number of employees who are attempting to organize.

QA once again, guess those folks really don't get any respect, at least in the gaming industry.

I don't know about these guys, but the ones in Albany had over $21 an hour.  Which, for an entry level, low skill position seems fair.  But thats between them and the company.

They just shouldn't be surprised when someday theres an effort to "consolidate" in some other location.

Well you know since they work for Zenimax they really get to earn their keep. 

OG_Solareus

F Unions F Zenimax

Tiller

OG_Solareus said:

it's a plagued powered George Soros.

DigDuggy

If people wanna u ionize, I have no problem. Just don't force people to join. Also expect prices to go up, workforce to potentially shrink. Don't be surprised is the much maligned Asian games to become more popular because they are cheaper.

People periodically throw up the question of 'can American development continue or is it dying?'. Well, this won't help

Slapshot1188

Qbertq said:

If people wanna u ionize, I have no problem. Just don't force people to join. Also expect prices to go up, workforce to potentially shrink. Don't be surprised is the much maligned Asian games to become more popular because they are cheaper.

People periodically throw up the question of 'can American development continue or is it dying?'. Well, this won't help

That has always been my biggest issue with Unions... the ones that force you to join against your will because other people voted to do it.  It seems... un-American to me.

OG_Solareus

CWA has direct access to your user information.

Radagast25

That is awesome. Good for them. Solidarity with the workers.

Radagast25

Slapshot1188 said:

Qbertq said:

If people wanna u ionize, I have no problem. Just don't force people to join. Also expect prices to go up, workforce to potentially shrink. Don't be surprised is the much maligned Asian games to become more popular because they are cheaper.



People periodically throw up the question of 'can American development continue or is it dying?'. Well, this won't help

That has always been my biggest issue with Unions... the ones that force you to join against your will because other people voted to do it.  It seems... un-American to me.

I think you will get what you want when the Free Rider problem is erased. Because what happens is in "work to right" states, that if you are in a uionized shop, but aren't a union member, you get the raises they negotiate, the benefits they negotiate and the protection they provide, BUT you pay nothing in. The SCOTUS said that they MUST represent you as strongly as they do other people who are members. So... THAT seems American to you I guess - getting benefits you aren't willing to pay for. The tradition was that you didn't have to be a member, but you had to pay an agency shop fee. It was less than you paid as a member, but it was enough to cover the basic services they provided. That was fair. Allowing you to be in the shop, get ALL of the benefits and not pay a dime - that isn't fair, and I do not believe unfair is American either.

Radagast25

Splattr said:

Recognizing a union and agreeing to any of its demands during contract negotiations are two completely different things.

Once a private company is unionized. If they refuse (or if the union does) to negotiate in good faith, the non-offending party can bring in federal representatives of the Labor Relations Board, initially they will try to conjole reasonable behavior, if that fails they will force it (Yes that is legal) so the power of the union is much stronger than you think, as long as they act as they should - the company WILL be constrained to do the same.

OG_Solareus

I'm not going to let these commies ruin my game time. back playing eso If their selfishness wants to destroy a company, thats not on me.

The coolest part of this particular Union,, they can ban you across all MS Products, including Windows.

I also love this push for Unions in "communications" after a Musk bought twitter. .

Kyleran

Qbertq said:

If people wanna u ionize, I have no problem. Just don't force people to join. Also expect prices to go up, workforce to potentially shrink. Don't be surprised is the much maligned Asian games to become more popular because they are cheaper.

People periodically throw up the question of 'can American development continue or is it dying?'. Well, this won't help

Yet I recently watched a legislator explain the current inflationary period is being driven by a tremendous increase in corporate profits, almost 56% of the total vs increases in labor or material costs.

This is supposedly unprecedented when compared to other similar inflationary periods in US history.

But I saw it on the internet, so you never know....

Are we sure we are cheering for the right side?

  

Kyleran

Slapshot1188 said:

Qbertq said:

If people wanna u ionize, I have no problem. Just don't force people to join. Also expect prices to go up, workforce to potentially shrink. Don't be surprised is the much maligned Asian games to become more popular because they are cheaper.

People periodically throw up the question of 'can American development continue or is it dying?'. Well, this won't help

That has always been my biggest issue with Unions... the ones that force you to join against your will because other people voted to do it.  It seems... un-American to me.

Really?  We vote all the time for new taxes or laws which are applicable to everyone even though not everyone votes for them.

Seems very American to me actually, tyranny of the majority and all.

OG_Solareus

Kyleran said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Qbertq said:

If people wanna u ionize, I have no problem. Just don't force people to join. Also expect prices to go up, workforce to potentially shrink. Don't be surprised is the much maligned Asian games to become more popular because they are cheaper.

People periodically throw up the question of 'can American development continue or is it dying?'. Well, this won't help

That has always been my biggest issue with Unions... the ones that force you to join against your will because other people voted to do it.  It seems... un-American to me.

Really?  We vote all the time for new taxes or laws which are applicable to everyone even though not everyone votes for them.

Seems very American to me actually, tyranny of the majority and all.

As someone who watches "things", you don't seem to get what tyranny is. Tyranny is top down. Voting is a negotiation of sides, tyranny has no negotiation.

Viper482

Oh the irony....maybe customers should form a union so they can't be permabanned from ZOS forums for criticizing ESO.

OG_Solareus

Viper482 said:

Oh the irony....maybe customers should form a union so they can't be permabanned from ZOS forums for criticizing ESO.

xD this is a great idea !

Kyleran

OG_Solareus said:

Kyleran said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Qbertq said:

If people wanna u ionize, I have no problem. Just don't force people to join. Also expect prices to go up, workforce to potentially shrink. Don't be surprised is the much maligned Asian games to become more popular because they are cheaper.

People periodically throw up the question of 'can American development continue or is it dying?'. Well, this won't help

That has always been my biggest issue with Unions... the ones that force you to join against your will because other people voted to do it.  It seems... un-American to me.

Really?  We vote all the time for new taxes or laws which are applicable to everyone even though not everyone votes for them.

Seems very American to me actually, tyranny of the majority and all.

As someone who watches "things", you don't seem to get what tyranny is. Tyranny is top down. Voting is a negotiation of sides, tyranny has no negotiation.

Always happy to help educate others on concepts which are new to them. 

The more polite form of this is "will of the people"

"The tyranny of the majority (or tyranny of the masses) is an inherent weakness to majority rule in which the majority of an electorate pursues exclusively its own objectives at the expense of those of the minority factions. This results in oppression of minority groups comparable to that of a tyrant or despot, argued John Stuart Mill in his 1859 book On Liberty.[1]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

OG_Solareus

Kyleran said:

OG_Solareus said:

Kyleran said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Qbertq said:

If people wanna u ionize, I have no problem. Just don't force people to join. Also expect prices to go up, workforce to potentially shrink. Don't be surprised is the much maligned Asian games to become more popular because they are cheaper.

People periodically throw up the question of 'can American development continue or is it dying?'. Well, this won't help

That has always been my biggest issue with Unions... the ones that force you to join against your will because other people voted to do it.  It seems... un-American to me.

Really?  We vote all the time for new taxes or laws which are applicable to everyone even though not everyone votes for them.

Seems very American to me actually, tyranny of the majority and all.

As someone who watches "things", you don't seem to get what tyranny is. Tyranny is top down. Voting is a negotiation of sides, tyranny has no negotiation.

Always happy to help educate others on concepts which are new to them. 

The more polite form of this is "will of the people"

"The tyranny of the majority (or tyranny of the masses) is an inherent weakness to majority rule in which the majority of an electorate pursues exclusively its own objectives at the expense of those of the minority factions. This results in oppression of minority groups comparable to that of a tyrant or despot, argued John Stuart Mill in his 1859 book On Liberty.[1]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

wiki has not been a reliable source for anything in a long time. Even that explanation, you just related tyranny as the minorities tool.

Scot

Radagast25 said:

Splattr said:

Recognizing a union and agreeing to any of its demands during contract negotiations are two completely different things.

Once a private company is unionized. If they refuse (or if the union does) to negotiate in good faith, the non-offending party can bring in federal representatives of the Labor Relations Board, initially they will try to conjole reasonable behavior, if that fails they will force it (Yes that is legal) so the power of the union is much stronger than you think, as long as they act as they should - the company WILL be constrained to do the same.

Welcome to the forums!

OldKingLog

I have to wonder why its only the QA departments that are doing this and not more of the core work force. I'd hypothesize that QA jobs are the most disposable and therefore these workers feel the most at risk of being replaced or ill treated.

Angrakhan

OldKingLog said:

I have to wonder why its only the QA departments that are doing this and not more of the core work force. I'd hypothesize that QA jobs are the most disposable and therefore these workers feel the most at risk of being replaced or ill treated.

I think your hypothesis is correct. Developers are harder to fire because they are subject matter experts in how the software works. Also, they have a specific skill set that can be difficult to replace. Although you can outsource them anyone who has gone down that road quickly figures out you basically get what you pay for. Every effort to outsource I've seen in my 25 year career as a developer has ended in disaster.

Designers, artists and musicians all have similar qualities in that if you get rid of them it can be difficult to replicate their work with a different employee.

QA, however, can by in large be a revolving door without disrupting the team's overall productivity.

Slapshot1188

Radagast25 said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Qbertq said:

If people wanna u ionize, I have no problem. Just don't force people to join. Also expect prices to go up, workforce to potentially shrink. Don't be surprised is the much maligned Asian games to become more popular because they are cheaper.



People periodically throw up the question of 'can American development continue or is it dying?'. Well, this won't help

That has always been my biggest issue with Unions... the ones that force you to join against your will because other people voted to do it.  It seems... un-American to me.

I think you will get what you want when the Free Rider problem is erased. Because what happens is in "work to right" states, that if you are in a uionized shop, but aren't a union member, you get the raises they negotiate, the benefits they negotiate and the protection they provide, BUT you pay nothing in. The SCOTUS said that they MUST represent you as strongly as they do other people who are members. So... THAT seems American to you I guess - getting benefits you aren't willing to pay for. The tradition was that you didn't have to be a member, but you had to pay an agency shop fee. It was less than you paid as a member, but it was enough to cover the basic services they provided. That was fair. Allowing you to be in the shop, get ALL of the benefits and not pay a dime - that isn't fair, and I do not believe unfair is American either.

I didn't say I supported that either.

I believe that if someone votes against a Union then they should not have to join it just to stay employed.
I believe that anyone that does not join a Union should then be treated like they were before. They do not pay dues, they do not automatically get anything the Union does. If a company wants to pay the non-union worker the same, thats up to them. If they want to pay more or less, again, thats up to them. 
And no, paying a "shop fee" to a union you do not belong to is not ok either.