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Opinion: Lawsuits Be Damned, Chronicles of Elyria is a Farce and Must End Now | MMOWTF | MMORPG.com

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 11,024
edited October 2022 in News & Features Discussion

imageOpinion: Lawsuits Be Damned, Chronicles of Elyria is a Farce and Must End Now | MMOWTF | MMORPG.com

The money has been spent, the game is veritably nonexistent, and yet, the developer still has the audacity to talk about the future, after fleecing so many over a promise that will never materialize. Chronicles of Elyria, Kingdoms of Elyria, and projects like it must end now!

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,897
    edited October 2022
    This is an interesting reaction to Walsh's tantrum 2 days ago about how this site covered the end of the Lawsuit. Below is what Walsh posted 2 days ago. I do not think this is what Walsh was expecting if he did what he said and reached out to Bradford directly to protest:

    I was recently made aware of MMORPG.com's coverage of our latest blog post. I've included an image of the header here so you can see the obvious clickbait for yourselves.

    I'm always disappointed, but unfortunately, less and less surprised when I read articles like this - about any studio. Articles like this containing biased, unsubstantiated information are not beneficial to our industry. They're misleading at best, and outright damaging at worst. The sheer amount of misinformation in this article is nauseating.

    I'm going to reach out to Joseph Bradford directly tomorrow, but atypically, I wanted to take a moment here, within the community, to let you know that we're not going to allow such an article to go without a response anymore.

    Whether it's through MMORPG.com, or directly on our website, we'll be addressing this article.

    There's an often misattributed quote that says, "A lie can travel half-way around the world while the Truth is still putting on its shoes."

    That's certainly been my experience over the last two years. But here's the thing, the Truth has its boots on now and it's ready to start kicking. (edited)

    image


    PS:  @StevenWeber @lotrlore If you want to interview him for a fair and balanced take I volunteer to ask questions.  I have a looooong list!

    UwakionnaAsm0deusStevenWeberlotrloreKyleranfranzcelotDarkZorvanReturnsCanyen109ScotLark3mand 5 others.

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • DattelisDattelis Member RarePosts: 897
    Well, its good someone else wrote this one at least. Hard to take this site seriously sometimes when they seriously talk about another known scam by the same guy as an actual project: https://www.mmorpg.com/news/kingdoms-of-elyria-sim-finally-gets-an-alpha-date-coming-july-6th-2000122425
    McSleazNeoyoshi
  • UwakionnaUwakionna Member RarePosts: 799
    Bit scattershot author to author, but guess that's a good thing in the sense of differing perspectives. Granted, does feel funny when some articles feel very "unofficially" sponsored.

    The op ed has a reasonable point though. Regardless of anything else, and regardless of who anyone would accuse, the brand has been pretty soundly marred. Without a product even in sight, this makes it all thew worse.

    Really would be best to sort it out, shutter, and move on from that mess.
    Neoyoshi
  • DattelisDattelis Member RarePosts: 897
    Uwakionna said:
    Bit scattershot author to author, but guess that's a good thing in the sense of differing perspectives. Granted, does feel funny when some articles feel very "unofficially" sponsored.

    The op ed has a reasonable point though. Regardless of anything else, and regardless of who anyone would accuse, the brand has been pretty soundly marred. Without a product even in sight, this makes it all thew worse.

    Really would be best to sort it out, shutter, and move on from that mess.

    Chances of that happening are honestly a lot higher now since the appeal will more than likely fail. Sad thing is, this guy will shutter this one and probably start up a new one sometime next year. What's worse than that is there will be people dumb enough to support him again.
    UwakionnaUngoodMcSleazBrainyCogohiLackingMMONeoyoshi
  • BrotherMaynardBrotherMaynard Member RarePosts: 458
    "The only game that's being played is the one Walsh is playing with his backers, and any future investors he attempts to convince."

    Vince, I see what you did there!

    Here's to Walsh's future venture, the AccountBound studios, in which he will be able to freely share the loot with his wife and family. Excelsior!

    UngoodOldKingLogfoxgirlAeanderNeoyoshi
  • StevenWeberStevenWeber MMORPG.COM Staff UncommonPosts: 81
    This is an interesting reaction to Walsh's tantrum 2 days ago about how this site covered the end of the Lawsuit. Below is what Walsh posted 2 days ago. I do not think this is what Walsh was expecting if he did what he said and reached out to Bradford directly to protest:

    I was recently made aware of MMORPG.com's coverage of our latest blog post. I've included an image of the header here so you can see the obvious clickbait for yourselves.

    I'm always disappointed, but unfortunately, less and less surprised when I read articles like this - about any studio. Articles like this containing biased, unsubstantiated information are not beneficial to our industry. They're misleading at best, and outright damaging at worst. The sheer amount of misinformation in this article is nauseating.

    I'm going to reach out to Joseph Bradford directly tomorrow, but atypically, I wanted to take a moment here, within the community, to let you know that we're not going to allow such an article to go without a response anymore.

    Whether it's through MMORPG.com, or directly on our website, we'll be addressing this article.

    There's an often misattributed quote that says, "A lie can travel half-way around the world while the Truth is still putting on its shoes."

    That's certainly been my experience over the last two years. But here's the thing, the Truth has its boots on now and it's ready to start kicking. (edited)

    image


    PS:  @StevenWeber @lotrlore If you want to interview him for a fair and balanced take I volunteer to ask questions.  I have a looooong list!

    Greetings sleuthy MMORPGer!

    Thanks for summoning me! While I don't have direct access to our EIC's mailbox I do not think he was contacted by Walsh since that article went live. Of course, this piece is simply my opinion. Our news coverage attempts to be unbiased to the best of our ability, though I know all of our forum-friends here may feel that statement can be, at times, inaccurate. 

    I can say that we love the insight our community brings to the articles and games we cover. I'm fortunate that the MMOWTF column allows me to express my knee jerk reactions away from the more unbiased news I attempt to achieve - so in the event any developer wishes to address any of our coverage, the staff here is willing and capable to do so professionally. *straightens bow-tie* 

    That being said, if that comes to pass we would love our community to be involved in having their own questions answered. Feel free to talk about them at length in the forums. We do read them!

    Happy posting!
    Slapshot1188UngoodOldKingLogRidrithScotSequriemNeoyoshi
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,897


    Thanks for summoning me! While I don't have direct access to our EIC's mailbox I do not think he was contacted by Walsh since that article went live. Of course, this piece is simply my opinion. Our news coverage attempts to be unbiased to the best of our ability, though I know all of our forum-friends here may feel that statement can be, at times, inaccurate. 

    I can say that we love the insight our community brings to the articles and games we cover. I'm fortunate that the MMOWTF column allows me to express my knee jerk reactions away from the more unbiased news I attempt to achieve - so in the event any developer wishes to address any of our coverage, the staff here is willing and capable to do so professionally. *straightens bow-tie* 

    That being said, if that comes to pass we would love our community to be involved in having their own questions answered. Feel free to talk about them at length in the forums. We do read them!

    Happy posting!
    Awesome!

    I think my questions around this project have been pretty well documented on these forums, but if he ever does come for an interview let me know and I'll go through 6 years of posts and gather the important 

    I guess the first one is that I believe it's been documented that Wash said he would open the books and show how the funds were spent if he was unable to deliver.  Then, when he actually shut (and reopened) his studio he said he would love to do that but couldn't because of the lawsuit.  Now that there is no lawsuit, will he do what he promised and open the books?  That's really all most backers ever wanted to see.  Did he ever pay family members?  How much did he pay himself?  That kind of stuff.

    maskedweaselKyleranOldKingLogCanyen109strawhat0981BrainyLark3mNeoyoshi

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 3,495
    Your desire that it end is rather must lite.
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,287
    Slapshot1188 said:
    but if he ever does come for an interview let me know
    we all know he's too chicken shit for that... but I guess one can dream.
    Slapshot1188KyleranMcSleazNeoyoshi
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • SplattrSplattr Member RarePosts: 455

    Dattelis said:

    Well, its good someone else wrote this one at least. Hard to take this site seriously sometimes when they seriously talk about another known scam by the same guy as an actual project: https://www.mmorpg.com/news/kingdoms-of-elyria-sim-finally-gets-an-alpha-date-coming-july-6th-2000122425



    That is the difference between a news post and an opinion piece.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,541


    This is an interesting reaction to Walsh's tantrum 2 days ago about how this site covered the end of the Lawsuit. Below is what Walsh posted 2 days ago. I do not think this is what Walsh was expecting if he did what he said and reached out to Bradford directly to protest:



    I was recently made aware of MMORPG.com's coverage of our latest blog post. I've included an image of the header here so you can see the obvious clickbait for yourselves.



    I'm always disappointed, but unfortunately, less and less surprised when I read articles like this - about any studio. Articles like this containing biased, unsubstantiated information are not beneficial to our industry. They're misleading at best, and outright damaging at worst. The sheer amount of misinformation in this article is nauseating.




    I'm going to reach out to Joseph Bradford directly tomorrow, but atypically, I wanted to take a moment here, within the community, to let you know that we're not going to allow such an article to go without a response anymore.




    Whether it's through MMORPG.com, or directly on our website, we'll be addressing this article.




    There's an often misattributed quote that says, "A lie can travel half-way around the world while the Truth is still putting on its shoes."




    That's certainly been my experience over the last two years. But here's the thing, the Truth has its boots on now and it's ready to start kicking. (edited)

    image


    PS:  @StevenWeber @lotrlore If you want to interview him for a fair and balanced take I volunteer to ask questions.  I have a looooong list!




    Where was this tantrum posted,?
    Neoyoshi

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 2,433
    edited October 2022
    I'm old now; I am allergic to drama.

    (sneezes)
    LonestryderNeoyoshi

    ------------
    2023: 46 years on the Net.


  • DarkZorvanReturnsDarkZorvanReturns Member RarePosts: 654
    Regardless of the lawsuit, has anyone suggested an investigation into the PPP loan to the Small Business Administration, who handed them out? Been a lot of grifters getting jail time for bogus PPP loans, and firing all your employees after getting one based on those employees is more than enough to open a case, I would think.
    Malkav42Neoyoshi
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,541
    edited October 2022
    Regardless of the lawsuit, has anyone suggested an investigation into the PPP loan to the Small Business Administration, who handed them out? Been a lot of grifters getting jail time for bogus PPP loans, and firing all your employees after getting one based on those employees is more than enough to open a case, I would think.
    Jeremy fired all his employees then applied for PPP funds based on his pre-layoff employment levels, (15 reported) which seems immoral but apparently not illegal as the rules said to use the Dec 31st totals.

    If there's a sleezy loophole JW took it.


    DarkZorvanReturnsMcSleazAsm0deusstrawhat0981Lark3mMalkav42Neoyoshi

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,897
    Kyleran said:


    This is an interesting reaction to Walsh's tantrum 2 days ago about how this site covered the end of the Lawsuit. Below is what Walsh posted 2 days ago. I do not think this is what Walsh was expecting if he did what he said and reached out to Bradford directly to protest:



    I was recently made aware of MMORPG.com's coverage of our latest blog post. I've included an image of the header here so you can see the obvious clickbait for yourselves.



    I'm always disappointed, but unfortunately, less and less surprised when I read articles like this - about any studio. Articles like this containing biased, unsubstantiated information are not beneficial to our industry. They're misleading at best, and outright damaging at worst. The sheer amount of misinformation in this article is nauseating.




    I'm going to reach out to Joseph Bradford directly tomorrow, but atypically, I wanted to take a moment here, within the community, to let you know that we're not going to allow such an article to go without a response anymore.




    Whether it's through MMORPG.com, or directly on our website, we'll be addressing this article.




    There's an often misattributed quote that says, "A lie can travel half-way around the world while the Truth is still putting on its shoes."




    That's certainly been my experience over the last two years. But here's the thing, the Truth has its boots on now and it's ready to start kicking. (edited)

    image


    PS:  @StevenWeber @lotrlore If you want to interview him for a fair and balanced take I volunteer to ask questions.  I have a looooong list!




    Where was this tantrum posted,?
    The official Discord.  The place where he still doesn't let people speak but just posts his garbage updates.
    KyleranNeoyoshi

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,897
    edited October 2022
    There was an update post from the lawyers.  It seems the Xsolla stuff looks good for some kind of payout.  They say that the reason Walsh gets to skate is that the refund policy is through Xsolla and Xsolla took the payments.

    GeminiKrish — 10/13/2022
    HI all,

    We appreciate all of your patience and this matter weaves through the court and arbitration system.  As you recall the Xsolla was ordered to arbitrate this case.  We have submitted all the damages from each of you that signed a fee agreement with my firm to Xsolla’ lawyers.  They have been in contact with me about resolving the matter and have been for some time in the process of matching up what you all have submitted for return to what Xsolla received.  Once that process is complete we will mediate the matter.  Mediation is an “out of court” way to settle the case before a trial or arbitration occurs.

    As for Soulbound Studios (SBS), they received a favorable ruling from the court.  The Court dismissed the case.  We are taking it up on appeal, but in all honestly it will be difficult to have the ruling overturned.  The Court found that since the money was paid through Xsolla and SBS did not have, in and of iself”  a return policy (relying on Xsolla’s return policy), they could not be held accountable for returning the money.  Stay tuned for appeal updates.

    Again, thank you all for your patience as I am my team are working hard to right this wrong you have all experienced
    Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
    maskedweaselDarkZorvanReturnsNeoyoshi

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,984
    edited October 2022
    There was an update post from the lawyers.  It seems the Xsolla stuff looks good for some kind of payout.  They say that the reason Walsh gets to skate is that the refund policy is through Xsolla and Xsolla took the payments.

    Which means every financial service will be thinking about if and how they want to handle a CF game or indeed any CF venture.
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,027
    edited October 2022
    Wasn't this kind of expected by folks here?

    I was under the impression that Walsh would skate due the terms of his sales and such loopholes while it was expected Xsolla would be in some kind of trouble since they didn't change their terms and is was written in black and white refunds were allowed or some such?

    I didn't follow this  super closely but only peeked in on updates now and then.

    Mostly cause I remember when this game first came to our attention here at mmorpg I had questions for Walsh and expressed doubt on his ability to make this happen with the budget proposed etc and he got all passive aggressive defensive, I recall he even went so far to imply that the game was targeting certain audience that had lots of cash to spend or such and not so much poor plebs on a smaller budget. 
    KyleranMendelNeoyoshi

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,984
    We have lost Ungood; get good and get back, hopefully see you soon.
    Asm0deusChampieNeoyoshi
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,984
    edited October 2022
    This sort of issue no doubt has MMORPG.com in a quandary, they like us feel your first reaction should be to support MMOs in development. But with abusive revenue models, dodgy development practices and pinning gameplay to a cryptocurrency where on earth does a MMO site stand?

    I think they have been lenient, too lenient, but tried to stay as impartial as they can. CoE tests the need to stay impartial to its limits, so no wonder we have opinion pieces, but we can't have the site turning on the game. People often laugh when I talk about professionalism in gaming journalism, but that has to be the gold standard the site tries to keep to.

    At the end of the day it does not matter how much of a scam or down to bad management it was, if any money is there, they should pay back funders, if not it is one for the courts and hopefully players are learning a lesson.
    maskedweaselMendel
  • JudgeUKJudgeUK Member RarePosts: 1,632
    edited October 2022
    If anyone feels comfortable backing future projects, please get in touch with me as I'd like to take your money as well, for something tba.....
    ScotBrainyChampie
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,897
    Scot said:
    There was an update post from the lawyers.  It seems the Xsolla stuff looks good for some kind of payout.  They say that the reason Walsh gets to skate is that the refund policy is through Xsolla and Xsolla took the payments.

    Which means every financial service will be thinking about if and how they want to handle a CF game or indeed any CF venture.
    Only if they have a clause that says you can get a Refund right up to release...

    Kyleran

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • lykosfx2lykosfx2 Newbie CommonPosts: 3
    Oi!
    Bom dia!

    Eu estava lendo sobre esses artigos, a respeito da corrupção de empresas para conseguir um financiamento coletivo de pessoas bem intencionadas e tenho uma pergunta a fazer.

    Os Apoiadores do Financiamento Coletivo pagaram pelo desenvolvimento de um MMO “Chronicles of Elyria” e o desenvolvimento foi paralisado durante 4 anos, significando que o MMO não seria mais desenvolvido.

    Após esses 4 anos, a empresa voltou com o mesmo MMO, mas com um nome diferente “Kingdoms of Elyria” e mesmo assim a empresa não retornou ao desenvolvimento.

    A Pergunta...

    Se os Apoiadores do Financiamento Coletivo pagaram pelo desenvolvimento do MMO “Chronicles of Elyria” e não receberam esse MMO que já está pago, então os Apoiadores do Financiamento Coletivo não seriam os Verdadeiros Proprietários desse MMO?

    Afinal, os Apoiadores do Financiamento Coletivo pagaram por um Serviço de Desenvolvimento que não foi cumprido as metas prometidas pela empresa do MMO “Chronicles of Elyria”, fazendo com que o desenvolvimento paralisasse, dando um prejuízo aos Apoiadores do Financiamento Coletivo.

    Se eu estiver correto nesse raciocínio…

    Então é só os Apoiadores do Financiamento Coletivo resgatar esse MMO na justiça e colocá-lo a leilão para conseguir o dinheiro de volta, afinal, o dinheiro do Financiamento são dos Apoiadores, a empresa só participou com o Serviço de Desenvolvimento.

    Nota: Não estou me referindo ao MMO “Kingdoms of Elyria”, porque ao mudar o nome, já se torna outro MMO, com outro registro.

    Bem… se eu estiver errado, me desculpem.

    Obrigado pela a sua atenção
    lykosfx

    ---------------

    Hey!
    Good Morning!

    I was reading about these articles, about the corruption of companies to get crowdfunding from well-meaning people, and I have a question.

    Crowdfunding Supporters paid for the development of an MMO “Chronicles of Elyria” and development was stalled for 4 years, meaning the MMO would no longer be developed.

    After these 4 years, the company returned with the same MMO, but with a different name “Kingdoms of Elyria” and even then the company did not return to development.

    The question…

    If Crowdfunding Supporters paid for the development of the MMO “Chronicles of Elyria” and didn't receive that MMO that is already paid for, then wouldn't Crowdfunding Supporters be the True Owners of that MMO?

    After, Crowdfunding Supporters paid for a Development Service that did not meet the goals promised by the MMO company “Chronicles of Elyria”, causing development to stall, causing a loss to Crowdfunding Supporters.

    If I'm correct in that reasoning…

    So it's just the Supporters of Crowdfunding to redeem this MMO in court and put it up for auction to get the money back, after, the funding money belongs to the Supporters, the company only participated with the Development Service.

    Note: I'm not referring to the MMO “Kingdoms of Elyria”, because by changing the name, it already becomes another MMO, with another record.

    Well… if I'm wrong, forgive me.

    Thanks for your attention
    lykosfx
    maskedweasel
  • starstorm777starstorm777 Member UncommonPosts: 114
    I always thought crowdfunding was a bit of a gamble on ur part as a player anyway, no guarantees...like an alpha version of a game for Pre-release. I sometimes take part in them and sometimes don't because the game could just sit there forever in the state it is in, or disappear altogether. Use ur brains people! :)
    Mendel
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,897
    I always thought crowdfunding was a bit of a gamble on ur part as a player anyway, no guarantees...like an alpha version of a game for Pre-release. I sometimes take part in them and sometimes don't because the game could just sit there forever in the state it is in, or disappear altogether. Use ur brains people! :)
    Not all Crowdfunding is equal.  Some, like this one did, go to Kickstarter and say "We also promised to only go to Kickstarter once we had a playable demo (combat demo released at PAX East) and substantial development to show. This is not just a concept that we're presenting. It's a game in the making that we need your help to bring to fruition."


    And then, 6 years later... nadda. So, was there really "substantial development" and was the "playable demo" really legit?

    I mean.. if there were really a functional "playable demo" why did most players never get to play a second of the game over the next 6 years?  Certainly not anything resembling what was shown in the Kickstarter screenshots?
    Kyleran

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

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