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Why there isn't a current sandbox MMO that's... good?

MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,610
edited August 4 in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
I get so annoyed over the past years of still looking for the sandbox MMO of the likes of Wurm and other old school titles that have the player-driven economy, base building, skill building, and such logic.

It's always having to go to grandpa time gaming, or struggling small indie projects, while the big budget projects are still the traditional copy/paste type of MMO we're used to.

I'm loosing hope I'll ever enjoy an MMO again, send help
KyleraneoloeHatefullWargfootScotAlBQuirky
«1345

Comments

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,747
    Things are getting so bad I'm starting to read r/evejobs again.


    AlBQuirkyMMOExposed

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,610
    edited August 4
    Kyleran said:
    Things are getting so bad I'm starting to read r/evejobs again.
    It's so bad several upcoming MMOs that pitch this sort of design are NFT BASED.

    I think we'll have to buy NFs either we like it or not, can't outrun the future of gaming? 

    #SCARYTHOUGHTS
    KyleranAlBQuirky
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,263
    NFTs arent necessarily the future of gaming, just a current trend to try and make money.
    CogohiSovrathDibdabsAndemnonAlBQuirky
  • Branko2307Branko2307 Member UncommonPosts: 345
    The answer is way easier then most people think, 1) new MMO companies that are trying to build games focus on wrong things while making em (graphics over gameplay and longevity of content etc) 2) developers that are hired for making these mmos havent played ALOT of diferent mmos themselfs 3) Inovation is the key but again show me a new mmo that actually have more then 1 new inovative thing that it has...
    LackingMMOAlBQuirky

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Holy Flamin' Frost-Brand Gronk-Slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' Woundin' an' Returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-Out-Yer-Bum!! ~Planescape: Torment~

  • Branko2307Branko2307 Member UncommonPosts: 345
    NFTs arent necessarily the future of gaming, just a current trend to try and make money.

    Imo NFTs are the future of MMOs, people just cant see it yet. Imo real money trading in mmos should be allowed and NFTs is the perfect way for companies of those MMOs to get a % cut of those transactions...i cant wait to see first AAA mmo with NFT RMTrading.
    StizzledSensaiWalkinGlennAndemnonAlBQuirkyUNH0LYEV1Ldragonlee66

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    Holy Flamin' Frost-Brand Gronk-Slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' Woundin' an' Returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-Out-Yer-Bum!! ~Planescape: Torment~

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,339
    When I look around at the players playing multiplayer online games in 2022 I'm not sure I want anything whatsoever to do with player-driven anything.
    WargfootNeo_ViperMendelAlBQuirkyUNH0LYEV1Ldragonlee66
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • eoloeeoloe Member RarePosts: 642
    NFTs arent necessarily the future of gaming, just a current trend to try and make money.

    Imo NFTs are the future of MMOs, people just cant see it yet. Imo real money trading in mmos should be allowed and NFTs is the perfect way for companies of those MMOs to get a % cut of those transactions...i cant wait to see first AAA mmo with NFT RMTrading.

    Yes. We are so blind that we are really unable to see how they transform games into jobs and pretend everything is ok, it is for the players and not for their cut........... so they say............

    It is just an awesome idea..... So, when you lose progress, you actually lose money which makes gamers a lot happier for sure.

    Cannot wait.

    Please shoot me first.


    KyleranStizzledMendelAlBQuirkydragonlee66
  • WargfootWargfoot Member EpicPosts: 1,799
    My guess is that worlds that allow for massive amounts of player impact allow for massive amounts of player exploits; hence, it is just easier to make a game that has everything on rails.  Either that, or make it so players can create their own servers and invite people they trust.

    I doubt we'll see anything truly sandbox and massive multiplayer ever again.
    MendelAlBQuirky
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,610
    Wargfoot said:
    My guess is that worlds that allow for massive amounts of player impact allow for massive amounts of player exploits; hence, it is just easier to make a game that has everything on rails.  Either that, or make it so players can create their own servers and invite people they trust.

    I doubt we'll see anything truly sandbox and massive multiplayer ever again.

    You have Albion Online, or EVE Online.

    MMOs that are absolute giants of a player driven economy, depth and competitive economy play that sustains a massive full loot PvP open world at that, if they can pull that off on a PvP setting, surely PvE can't be harder when they have more control of how the economy would flow.
    AlBQuirky
  • Branko2307Branko2307 Member UncommonPosts: 345
    eoloe said:
    NFTs arent necessarily the future of gaming, just a current trend to try and make money.

    Imo NFTs are the future of MMOs, people just cant see it yet. Imo real money trading in mmos should be allowed and NFTs is the perfect way for companies of those MMOs to get a % cut of those transactions...i cant wait to see first AAA mmo with NFT RMTrading.

    Yes. We are so blind that we are really unable to see how they transform games into jobs and pretend everything is ok, it is for the players and not for their cut........... so they say............

    It is just an awesome idea..... So, when you lose progress, you actually lose money which makes gamers a lot happier for sure.

    Cannot wait.

    Please shoot me first.



    Calm down buddy take a breath, if you dont like something dont try to ruin it for others, who said you can lose any progress? ur just finding imaginary things to bitch about. Transform games into Jobs lol, even tho it is not allowed real money trading is being done right now in every single mmo you can imagine, just coz its not allowed doesnt mean its not happening, maybe think about what ur writing before posting it...
    StizzledSensaiAlBQuirkydragonlee66

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Holy Flamin' Frost-Brand Gronk-Slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' Woundin' an' Returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-Out-Yer-Bum!! ~Planescape: Torment~

  • eoloeeoloe Member RarePosts: 642
    edited August 5
    eoloe said:
    NFTs arent necessarily the future of gaming, just a current trend to try and make money.

    Imo NFTs are the future of MMOs, people just cant see it yet. Imo real money trading in mmos should be allowed and NFTs is the perfect way for companies of those MMOs to get a % cut of those transactions...i cant wait to see first AAA mmo with NFT RMTrading.

    Yes. We are so blind that we are really unable to see how they transform games into jobs and pretend everything is ok, it is for the players and not for their cut........... so they say............

    It is just an awesome idea..... So, when you lose progress, you actually lose money which makes gamers a lot happier for sure.

    Cannot wait.

    Please shoot me first.



    Calm down buddy take a breath, if you dont like something dont try to ruin it for others, who said you can lose any progress? ur just finding imaginary things to bitch about. Transform games into Jobs lol, even tho it is not allowed real money trading is being done right now in every single mmo you can imagine, just coz its not allowed doesnt mean its not happening, maybe think about what ur writing before posting it...

    We all know these arguments and this rhetoric. You just don't get mine. Whatever, enjoy your NFTs..........

    To go back on topic, there is EVE and Albion.
    Unfortunately for me, the space thing is not for me, and I don't like albion's DA even if I have to admit they do have interesting game mechanics.........

    BDO could have been it, but they gutted this part a long time ago..
    AlBQuirky
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,437
    NFTs arent necessarily the future of gaming, just a current trend to try and make money.
    It's almost in the name:  NFT = Not the Future of Transactions.
    eoloeWalkinGlennAndemnonAlBQuirkydragonlee66
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,747
    eoloe said:
    eoloe said:
    NFTs arent necessarily the future of gaming, just a current trend to try and make money.

    Imo NFTs are the future of MMOs, people just cant see it yet. Imo real money trading in mmos should be allowed and NFTs is the perfect way for companies of those MMOs to get a % cut of those transactions...i cant wait to see first AAA mmo with NFT RMTrading.

    Yes. We are so blind that we are really unable to see how they transform games into jobs and pretend everything is ok, it is for the players and not for their cut........... so they say............

    It is just an awesome idea..... So, when you lose progress, you actually lose money which makes gamers a lot happier for sure.

    Cannot wait.

    Please shoot me first.



    Calm down buddy take a breath, if you dont like something dont try to ruin it for others, who said you can lose any progress? ur just finding imaginary things to bitch about. Transform games into Jobs lol, even tho it is not allowed real money trading is being done right now in every single mmo you can imagine, just coz its not allowed doesnt mean its not happening, maybe think about what ur writing before posting it...

    We all know these arguments and this rhetoric. You just don't get mine. Whatever, enjoy your NFTs..........

    To go back on topic, there is EVE and Albion.
    Unfortunately for me, the space thing is not for me, and I don't like albion's DA even if I have to admit they do have interesting game mechanics.........

    BDO could have been it, but they gutted this part a long time ago..
    How does that proverb go?

    There are none so blind as those who will not see.

    or my Mom's personal favorite,

    You can lead a horse to water but you can't make em drink.


    eoloeAlBQuirky

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,263
    edited August 5
    NFTs arent necessarily the future of gaming, just a current trend to try and make money.

    Imo NFTs are the future of MMOs, people just cant see it yet. Imo real money trading in mmos should be allowed and NFTs is the perfect way for companies of those MMOs to get a % cut of those transactions...i cant wait to see first AAA mmo with NFT RMTrading.

    All you own with a NFT is a piece of data...You dont actually own anything tangible...You give them the money for the NFT, try to convince someone that nothing is worth something, and then at some point they pull the plug on the game and you have nothing.
    IselinStizzledAndemnoneoloeAlBQuirkydragonlee66
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,747
    NFTs arent necessarily the future of gaming, just a current trend to try and make money.

    Imo NFTs are the future of MMOs, people just cant see it yet. Imo real money trading in mmos should be allowed and NFTs is the perfect way for companies of those MMOs to get a % cut of those transactions...i cant wait to see first AAA mmo with NFT RMTrading.

    All you own with a NFT is a piece of data...You dont actually own anything tangible...You give them the money for the NFT, try to convince someone that nothing is worth something, and then at some point they pull the plug on the game and you have nothing.
    Turns out all you really own is a unique token where the data you "purchased" can be changed at some point in the future.

    Recall the recent example where some NFT auto racing game closed, then same devs opened a new auto racing game, transferring people's token over.

    All good except owners found their tokens had been changed to different (but supposedly equivalent) cars.

    NFTs as currently implemented in most use cases are the greatest scam / rug pull in computer history.


    IselinStizzledAndemnoneoloeAlBQuirkydragonlee66Forgrimm

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,339
    Kyleran said:
    NFTs arent necessarily the future of gaming, just a current trend to try and make money.

    Imo NFTs are the future of MMOs, people just cant see it yet. Imo real money trading in mmos should be allowed and NFTs is the perfect way for companies of those MMOs to get a % cut of those transactions...i cant wait to see first AAA mmo with NFT RMTrading.

    All you own with a NFT is a piece of data...You dont actually own anything tangible...You give them the money for the NFT, try to convince someone that nothing is worth something, and then at some point they pull the plug on the game and you have nothing.
    Turns out all you really own is a unique token where the data you "purchased" can be changed at some point in the future.

    Recall the recent example where some NFT auto racing game closed, then same devs opened a new auto racing game, transferring people's token over.

    All good except owners found their tokens had been changed to different (but supposedly equivalent) cars.

    NFTs as currently implemented in most use cases are the greatest scam / rug pull in computer history.



    KyleranAndemnoneoloeShaighAlBQuirkydragonlee66
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 18,708
    Let's rephrase that title:

    Why isn't there anything other than the standard MMO template that's good?

    Ans: Studios are not prepared to put money into anything other than the standard template and sandbox is not standard.
    MendelKylerancameltosiseoloeAlBQuirkydragonlee66
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,633
    MaxBacon said:


    I'm loosing hope I'll ever enjoy an MMO again, send help
    Yeah, I've started back in with the Vanguard emulator and for me it feels like a breath of fresh air.

    I don't think there is a suitable sandbox mmo (not saying vanguard is one fyi) because there just isn't the interest.

    Which in some ways feels odd as there is quite a bit of interest in games like Minecraft.

    Maybe it's the merging of mmorpg with sandbox that is the sticking point?

    Maybe it's that the majority of mmorpg players don't want a game where they have to virtually "work" and that developers don't want to stake the future of their studios on the hope that they can get a large enough player base.


    Maybe it's because a good many players want things easier rather than harder. 
    KyleranArglebargleAlBQuirky
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  • UwakionnaUwakionna Member RarePosts: 387
    For me sandbox games broadly generally lack features I would want for a "complete" experience still.

    The sandbox itself is a good framework for growing community content and unique/emergent experiences from, but it's generally directionless and relies on the community to be a highly self-motivated bunch.

    And to a degree that works. But only within finite niche, and only when you have strong communal forces that compel players as a collective. Part of why so many sandbox games warble in and out of existence, they're effectively waiting for magic to happen.

    Not advocating themeparks here, but rather that sandboxes need better toolkits and need to evolve how they can help both initiate and foster what might be considered the second layer to sandbox experience. Tools specifically around developing personal and world narrative through authoring of events and quests, rather than them just being player - hosted activities within a vacuum. It's a difference of creating what can be modules other players can then take and use or adapt for their own experiences within the game.

    Other thing would be creating overarching motives as world quests that players achieve as a collective. Something that can push players towards a shared goal, while allowing for personal approach to differ and maybe even conflict.

    Sandboxes as a baseline are somewhat shallow, and rely heavily on player motivation to create emergent entertainment. Without other players, and without someone or something guiding creative forces, it's kinda just sand. That's the biggest hitch for me that needs to be solved. As it's not for a lack of people making sandbox games. Those still get churned out constantly.
    AlBQuirky
  • worldsbestdadworldsbestdad Member RarePosts: 409
    MaxBacon said:
    I get so annoyed over the past years of still looking for the sandbox MMO of the likes of Wurm and other old school titles that have the player-driven economy, base building, skill building, and such logic.

    It's always having to go to grandpa time gaming, or struggling small indie projects, while the big budget projects are still the traditional copy/paste type of MMO we're used to.

    I'm loosing hope I'll ever enjoy an MMO again, send help

    The survival genre isn't in a good position right now because the only survival games people seem to like are streamlined and allow players to host their own public/private servers. Rust, Minecraft, Valheim, V Rising, all following this same template. Nobody wants to play in one big sandbox but rather their own special sandbox, with the rules they want. Nobody wants to play a "second job" type of game that requires the hours that Wurm does, and if they do they want it to be worth their valuable time in some way(NFTs). Personally I've enjoyed Wurm a lot over the years, and a modernized version of it would be a welcome sight and maybe even bring a tear to my eye. I understand your pain in no game being able to match what games like Wurm have to offer. Maybe one day we will get that fresh good game we desire so badly, but while we wait for that day to come I've found that enjoying other games I used to love can be time well enjoyed too.
    SovrathAlBQuirky
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,437
    Is there some reason why you don't like Uncharted Waters Online, the best sandbox MMORPG ever made?  It's been around for quite a while, but it's still being actively updated and has accumulated an enormous amount of features and content.

    Or did you mean that you wanted not just a good sandbox MMORPG, but a good sandbox MMORPG that satisfies a bunch of additional criteria that excludes most sandbox MMORPGs from consideration?
    AndemnonAlBQuirky
  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 10,216
    I've been going back to older titles like A Tale in The Desert. Still an active community, small as it is.
    AlBQuirky
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • MrTugglesMrTuggles Member UncommonPosts: 187
    MaxBacon said:
    I get so annoyed over the past years of still looking for the sandbox MMO of the likes of Wurm and other old school titles that have the player-driven economy, base building, skill building, and such logic.

    It's always having to go to grandpa time gaming, or struggling small indie projects, while the big budget projects are still the traditional copy/paste type of MMO we're used to.

    I'm loosing hope I'll ever enjoy an MMO again, send help
    Ultima Online - Outlands Shard

    Nuff said.
    AlBQuirky
  • TheDalaiBombaTheDalaiBomba Member EpicPosts: 1,078
    edited August 5
    MaxBacon said:
    Wargfoot said:
    My guess is that worlds that allow for massive amounts of player impact allow for massive amounts of player exploits; hence, it is just easier to make a game that has everything on rails.  Either that, or make it so players can create their own servers and invite people they trust.

    I doubt we'll see anything truly sandbox and massive multiplayer ever again.

    You have Albion Online, or EVE Online.

    MMOs that are absolute giants of a player driven economy, depth and competitive economy play that sustains a massive full loot PvP open world at that, if they can pull that off on a PvP setting, surely PvE can't be harder when they have more control of how the economy would flow.
    Tbh, it may be harder to balance PvE because you have to somehow create systems like gathering with materials that offer adequate progression for casuals while simultaneously not allowing power gamers to grind that material into oblivion and stockpile massive amounts.

    In a PvP game, you can better restrict resources and encourage that continuous flow of economy by providing enticing incentives for the power gamers to stop grinding resources and start spending them (PvP in Albion and EVE).  That also helps keep spending those resources a fresh experience, where players are more likely to get frustrated with exhausting mats on the same boss fight over and over.  Those games also do a good job of keeping low level materials relevant, providing a connection between low level player skills and high level play.
    AlBQuirky
  • Branko2307Branko2307 Member UncommonPosts: 345
    NFTs arent necessarily the future of gaming, just a current trend to try and make money.

    Imo NFTs are the future of MMOs, people just cant see it yet. Imo real money trading in mmos should be allowed and NFTs is the perfect way for companies of those MMOs to get a % cut of those transactions...i cant wait to see first AAA mmo with NFT RMTrading.

    All you own with a NFT is a piece of data...You dont actually own anything tangible...You give them the money for the NFT, try to convince someone that nothing is worth something, and then at some point they pull the plug on the game and you have nothing.

    Not only do you know nothing about NFTs and Crypto coding but you totaly missed my point about why it is the future of trading in mmos (im talking about mmos where real money trading is allowed, future mmos that will eventually come with that)

    Its not about using NFTs at all, its about being able to track and monetize transactions in a automated way wich is allready established in crypto, rather then creating ur own system wich would not only take alot of time and money, but it has to be better then crypto.

    "Try to convince someone that nothing is worth something" what are you on about? People buy items and upgrades of all sorts in every mmo you can imagine on the market today, other people see that as useless or not worth spending anything, you are just writing nonsense coz u have nothing better to do, at least make it coherent.

    Yes plug can be pulled from every mmo that was ever made and lots have been pulled, is that gonna stop people from spending cash rather then time? ofc not. again ur point makes 0 sense.
    SensaiKyleranAndemnonAlBQuirkydragonlee66

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Holy Flamin' Frost-Brand Gronk-Slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' Woundin' an' Returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-Out-Yer-Bum!! ~Planescape: Torment~

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