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Starfield Gets An Extended Gameplay Reveal, Showing Off Combat, Locations And Much More

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  • TheIdealistTheIdealist Member UncommonPosts: 45
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:
    For the comments above. How you can compare Full online multiplayer game (Star Citizen) with a Single player Game?
    Good point. They should really be comparing it to Squadron 42.
    I took the SC comparisons to be the SQ42 component. Even then Starfield still looks a lot more interesting than SC/SQ42 because you can design and build your own ships instead of buying them for real money. On top of that the base building, staffing of bases, crafting, narrative, and character progression all sound a lot more robust than the little bit of information SC has been unwilling to share.

    I personally wouldn't compare them because this is an incoming reality and Bethesda, despite its often buggy software, has a proven track record of delivering memorable open world narrative RPG experiences.

    CIG is living on promises and tech demos. I wish they weren't really brought up at all because nothing about them is interesting or discussion worthy. Everything the SC "enthusiasts" bring up are points regurgitated many times before and they're boring.
    I agree with you, but still, it's a different engineering approach. To sync everything with hundreds of players in one world/server it's a big mission. I'm not saying that SC is a better game, but it's a different type of game and technology.


    [Deleted User]
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    edited June 2022
    Torval said:

    I personally wouldn't compare them because this is an incoming reality and Bethesda, despite its often buggy software, has a proven track record of delivering memorable open world narrative RPG experiences.

    Neither would I because these are totally different games with different focus.

    I did play the Wing Commander games back in the old days and to me they were half and half flying sims and adventure - no RPG whatsoever that I recall since back in those days borrowing from other genres really wasn't in vogue.

    These time around from what I have seen and read it sounds like SQ42 is going to be more flying sim and less adventure, A flying sim, it seems to me, with obsessive levels of fine detail and minutia (probably the main cause for delays.)

    That level of detail just isn't what Bethesda is about and from the new trailer we just saw, faithful flying physics isn't either. But I'm not being critical when I say that. I wanted and expected Starfield to be TES/FO in space with their usual mix of story, quests and open world exploration and with a legit RPG system and it seems that this is exactly what we're getting.

    BTW I wasn't seriously suggesting that it be compared to SQ42. That was just me taking a, possibly lame, passing shot at SQ42's non existence. I.e. it can't be compared to it because it doesn't exist :)
    [Deleted User]Champie
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

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  • dirtysidedirtyside Member UncommonPosts: 101

    achesoma said:

    RIP Star Citizen



    yea ok lol , i think Empyrion has just as much thrill to it as starfield and its multiplayer also
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,505
    Iselin said:
    For the comments above. How you can compare Full online multiplayer game (Star Citizen) with a Single player Game?
    Good point. They should really be comparing it to Squadron 42.
    I was and did compare it to SQ42, but it largely is a sub module to the greater SC game, especially since it seems to be tied to it in lockstep from a development and release schedule.


    [Deleted User]

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  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,265
    Was midway of a post stating how laughingly ignorant these comparisons between SC/SQ42 and Starfield were when noticed a youtuber just posted a great video explaining it:
    B)

    WalkinGlenn
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,966
    edited June 2022
    Iselin said:
    For the comments above. How you can compare Full online multiplayer game (Star Citizen) with a Single player Game?
    Good point. They should really be comparing it to Squadron 42.
    We can't be stopped from comparing SC to everything and the kitchen sink. :)

    But quite right, it should be to Sq 42 which we know hardly anything about from what I have seen.
    Babuinix
  • WordsworthWordsworth Member UncommonPosts: 166
    Looks cool.  Kinda confused as to why theres so much press about people being disappointed. 

    My only gripes were the performance issues and the fact that the Creation Engine is really starting to show it's age. 

    Hopefully, we get a new engine for ES6 and Starfield is a fun send-off for CE.

    [Deleted User]
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    edited June 2022
    Torval said:

    I'm not sure why people are disappointed either. It looks a lot like a recent Bethesda game (FO4, FO76, Skyrim). If people like those kinds of games I'm not sure what would be disappointing about this reveal. I really liked that the trailer has a lot of engine footage and wasn't just a cinematic puff job. Maybe people were expecting some new engine and something a lot bigger?
    Usual shit for a highly anticipated title ("Cyberpunk is GTA lite!" "WTF, no multiplayer?") Get ready for a full year of really stupid takes from streamers and clickbait journos alike.

    I saw this on the Starfield reddit:




    This guy is bitching about how canon fodder NPCs have type descriptors instead of names. Seriously doubt he has played any recent RPGs where the norm is to only give names to mini bosses and up... hence the "named boss" term we all use.
    Sovrath[Deleted User]
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • UwakionnaUwakionna Member RarePosts: 1,139
    I mean I have my concerns and gripes as one of the "disappointed" people, but a mob having a generic name definitely ain't one of those complaints.

    Mostly my gripes are with how hyped up and how large a team they talked about having for the engine update, to get results that barely move the needle. I wasn't surprised by that, given Bethesda as a developer are not known for technical strength and they are using a long-ailing engine.

    As I said before though. Even if I feel underwhelmed by the demonstration, it wasn't outside expectations, and I still see myself buying and playing the game.
    Iselin[Deleted User]
  • TheDalaiBombaTheDalaiBomba Member EpicPosts: 1,493
    edited June 2022
    Uwakionna said:
    I mean I have my concerns and gripes as one of the "disappointed" people, but a mob having a generic name definitely ain't one of those complaints.

    Mostly my gripes are with how hyped up and how large a team they talked about having for the engine update, to get results that barely move the needle. I wasn't surprised by that, given Bethesda as a developer are not known for technical strength and they are using a long-ailing engine.

    As I said before though. Even if I feel underwhelmed by the demonstration, it wasn't outside expectations, and I still see myself buying and playing the game.
    I understand the frustration regarding expectations, but I'm personally satisfied with the graphical fidelity *if* the game runs smoothly at release.

    Depending upon the end result in terms of view distance and such, they may have pulled back on pushing the boundary further to accommodate a more realistic view of consumer hardware.

    That's obviously conjecture, but if the game runs pretty well at launch, I will be pleased with the level of fidelity personally.
    [Deleted User]
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Uwakionna said:
    I mean I have my concerns and gripes as one of the "disappointed" people, but a mob having a generic name definitely ain't one of those complaints.

    Mostly my gripes are with how hyped up and how large a team they talked about having for the engine update, to get results that barely move the needle. I wasn't surprised by that, given Bethesda as a developer are not known for technical strength and they are using a long-ailing engine.

    As I said before though. Even if I feel underwhelmed by the demonstration, it wasn't outside expectations, and I still see myself buying and playing the game.
    I really wasn't expecting much graphics wise as soon as I learned that they weren't doing a new engine but were instead doing a "new and improved" version of their old clunker.

    But as you say, they have never been known for pushing the graphics or technical envelope.

    I thought NPC faces and animations looked a bit better in the cut scenes they showed but that was about the only visuals that struck me as better.
    [Deleted User]
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,915
    I have known no Bethesda game that ran smoothly at launch.
    Iselin[Deleted User]UwakionnaArglebargleKyleran

  • UwakionnaUwakionna Member RarePosts: 1,139
    Iselin said:
    Uwakionna said:
    I mean I have my concerns and gripes as one of the "disappointed" people, but a mob having a generic name definitely ain't one of those complaints.

    Mostly my gripes are with how hyped up and how large a team they talked about having for the engine update, to get results that barely move the needle. I wasn't surprised by that, given Bethesda as a developer are not known for technical strength and they are using a long-ailing engine.

    As I said before though. Even if I feel underwhelmed by the demonstration, it wasn't outside expectations, and I still see myself buying and playing the game.
    I really wasn't expecting much graphics wise as soon as I learned that they weren't doing a new engine but were instead doing a "new and improved" version of their old clunker.

    But as you say, they have never been known for pushing the graphics or technical envelope.

    I thought NPC faces and animations looked a bit better in the cut scenes they showed but that was about the only visuals that struck me as better.
    The face animations still bothered me a bit because you could see how segmented the animations were. Like the mouth moves, the jaw barely moves, sides of the head don't move at all, and unless the eyebrows wiggle/furrow, the entire top of the head is static.

    The character model's resolution has improved, but the render quality hasn't seemingly improved much and things like dust seemed to be really low res for some reason.

    Thing for me on the engine is less graphics and more the legacy bugs as well as the limitations imposed on game mechanics. When they can't fix recurring memory leak issues and save corruption errors that modders solve instead, there's a concern that remains with them trying to add new gameplay where it's going to always be marred by compromise and mechanical limitations/errors they couldn't solve.

    As stated It's still a game I know I'm gonna buy and play. I'm pretty certain I'll find it fun as well. It just nags me more and more that I can see the technical debt and limitation of the devs at handling their own engine stunting what could have been.

    And at this point I really do feel it's stunting things. At one point we could say yeah the physics simulation or Ai or something was a novel enough piece of tech that would be a challenge to replicate in another engine. But out of the box Unity and Unreal can do anything Creation Engine can, and generally more stably.

    Even talking about modding, the documentation and open ability to tinker with them at a basic level for both mentioned engines means an SDK isn't some big hurdle. Semantically easier when you can take a basic SDK toolkit for the engine and then amend things into it for the game, instead of creating the entirety of the kit in-house.

    Short here being, it makes me feel like Bethesda is crippling themselves out of convenience, hubris, or both. They could be using a more modern engine with better capabilities not just for visuals, but more importantly for gameplay, than they are wasting time, manpower and money revving internally to not even match.
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,888
    Uwakionna said:
    Iselin said:
    Uwakionna said:
    I mean I have my concerns and gripes as one of the "disappointed" people, but a mob having a generic name definitely ain't one of those complaints.

    Mostly my gripes are with how hyped up and how large a team they talked about having for the engine update, to get results that barely move the needle. I wasn't surprised by that, given Bethesda as a developer are not known for technical strength and they are using a long-ailing engine.

    As I said before though. Even if I feel underwhelmed by the demonstration, it wasn't outside expectations, and I still see myself buying and playing the game.
    I really wasn't expecting much graphics wise as soon as I learned that they weren't doing a new engine but were instead doing a "new and improved" version of their old clunker.

    But as you say, they have never been known for pushing the graphics or technical envelope.

    I thought NPC faces and animations looked a bit better in the cut scenes they showed but that was about the only visuals that struck me as better.
    The face animations still bothered me a bit because you could see how segmented the animations were. Like the mouth moves, the jaw barely moves, sides of the head don't move at all, and unless the eyebrows wiggle/furrow, the entire top of the head is static.

    The character model's resolution has improved, but the render quality hasn't seemingly improved much and things like dust seemed to be really low res for some reason.

    Thing for me on the engine is less graphics and more the legacy bugs as well as the limitations imposed on game mechanics. When they can't fix recurring memory leak issues and save corruption errors that modders solve instead, there's a concern that remains with them trying to add new gameplay where it's going to always be marred by compromise and mechanical limitations/errors they couldn't solve.

    As stated It's still a game I know I'm gonna buy and play. I'm pretty certain I'll find it fun as well. It just nags me more and more that I can see the technical debt and limitation of the devs at handling their own engine stunting what could have been.

    And at this point I really do feel it's stunting things. At one point we could say yeah the physics simulation or Ai or something was a novel enough piece of tech that would be a challenge to replicate in another engine. But out of the box Unity and Unreal can do anything Creation Engine can, and generally more stably.

    Even talking about modding, the documentation and open ability to tinker with them at a basic level for both mentioned engines means an SDK isn't some big hurdle. Semantically easier when you can take a basic SDK toolkit for the engine and then amend things into it for the game, instead of creating the entirety of the kit in-house.

    Short here being, it makes me feel like Bethesda is crippling themselves out of convenience, hubris, or both. They could be using a more modern engine with better capabilities not just for visuals, but more importantly for gameplay, than they are wasting time, manpower and money revving internally to not even match.
    You're giving Bethesda too little credit for how well their engine is able to handle their haphazardly built open worlds. They lack a lot of the modern graphical features, but their engine is good at running a huge open world with mods doing wacky things and doing it all with very few crashes or critical failures and reasonable system requirements.

    Their engine is kind of a one trick pony that's good only for their style of games. But for their style of games it's probably a lot better choice than Unity would be, and as good as Unreal (with some in-house work) would be.
    TheDalaiBombaKyleran
     
  • UwakionnaUwakionna Member RarePosts: 1,139
    edited June 2022
    Ten years ago, I would have agreed with you. Unreal 4 and 5 both have a large-scale environment partition and state streaming/loading system that is way more stable than Creation Engine at this point however. Even Unity is easily able to implement cleaner stream loading with quick and proper memory cache clearing to prevent the kind of memory overflow CTDs that can still strike the 64 bit version of Creation Engine.

    And the thing there is the fact mods are actually used to stabilize Creation Engine's problems around loading/unloading assets and cleaning up artifacts that make their way into the in save files from Bethesda's method of content streaming, which can otherwise lead to save file corruption. It's not simply that the engine can handle mod getting added to it, it's being fixed and supported by them.

    Their engine was good at it's job, at least early on in the context to where it had little competition for what Bethesda was pulling off, but they have simply not kept up and they don't have the demonstrated technical ability to keep trying to keep up. At this point they are way better off learning a new generation of engine.
    Arglebargle
  • UtinniUtinni Member EpicPosts: 2,209
    I think most of the Starfield vs. Star Citizen comparisons will come from people who are heavily invested in the latter. They've been defending their purchases for almost a decade now and anything that makes them feel slightly unsure about it will be met with lashing out.
    Babuinix[Deleted User]
  • TheDalaiBombaTheDalaiBomba Member EpicPosts: 1,493
    edited June 2022
    kitarad said:
    I have known no Bethesda game that ran smoothly at launch.
    I've no doubt there will be graphical bugs and glitches, but Fallout 4 ran at 1080p Ultra in 2015 just fine in terms of FPS on a ~$200 video card.  An R9 390X ran it okay at 1440p, and it was still less than $500 at the time.

    Yes, if you maxed out the HD resolutions, you'd run into problems.  I don't think setting the bar at 4k performance in 2015 is a good idea, though.  Folks were still using TN panels that cost over half a grand just to get the most basic 60hz 4k monitors, and the graphics card required to run all the current games at 4k at the time were around $700+.  4k gaming was still in the enthusiast stage at the time.

    The biggest culprit in stealing frames in FO4 was view distance and shadows.  Both are a result of the nature of the game: open world with long view distances.
  • DigDuggyDigDuggy Member RarePosts: 641
    My hope for this one is high. I prefer scifi games that are more than just space flight simulators. The last one I truly had hopes for was a few years back and can't remember the name. It was a planet bound and was a sandbox (third person). Sadly, they released with it in an unplayable state and it didn't last more than a couple of months if that long. So it's been a while since I've had one that I've looked forward to.
    [Deleted User]
  • WordsworthWordsworth Member UncommonPosts: 166

    Yes, if you maxed out the HD resolutions, you'd run into problems.  I don't think setting the bar at 4k performance in 2015 is a good idea, though.  Folks were still using TN panels that cost over half a grand just to get the most basic 60hz 4k monitors, and the graphics card required to run all the current games at 4k at the time were around $700+.  4k gaming was still in the enthusiast stage at the time.

    Haha that was me :P

    It was during the GPU shortage, too, so I was stuck using 970s in SLI.

    Ran great at 1080p though :P
    TheDalaiBomba[Deleted User]
  • TheDalaiBombaTheDalaiBomba Member EpicPosts: 1,493
    edited June 2022

    Yes, if you maxed out the HD resolutions, you'd run into problems.  I don't think setting the bar at 4k performance in 2015 is a good idea, though.  Folks were still using TN panels that cost over half a grand just to get the most basic 60hz 4k monitors, and the graphics card required to run all the current games at 4k at the time were around $700+.  4k gaming was still in the enthusiast stage at the time.

    Haha that was me :P

    It was during the GPU shortage, too, so I was stuck using 970s in SLI.

    Ran great at 1080p though :P
    To be fair, maxing it out was the only way it didn't look relatively ugly compared to other titles that year. :lol:

    But Bethesda's games have always been that way.  Not very pretty, and buggy.. But also expansive, interesting, and very fun!
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,265
    Utinni said:
    I think most of the Starfield vs. Star Citizen comparisons will come from people who are heavily invested in the latter. They've been defending their purchases for almost a decade now and anything that makes them feel slightly unsure about it will be met with lashing out.
    Funny you say that when it's clear from this thread alone that the only ones who make dumb comparisons are the ones who never backed, played or know anything about the game Star Citizen. :D

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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    4 total cities and 1,000 planets. 
    I hope the planets are not mostly empty  
    They've said procedurally generated (but by them, not us, so everyone gets the same planets) but with "some handcrafted touches."

    I guess we'll have to wait and see just how much additional handcrafting they do and its quality.
    [Deleted User]Mendel
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    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • UwakionnaUwakionna Member RarePosts: 1,139
    From what I could tell it's a bit Mass-Effecty with it's landing and transition, with the caveat that you zoom in on a planet and can pick any point to land rather than a fixed point. Still puts you into cutscenes otherwise.

    Seemed to me like they were almost doing a star Trek Online, breaking up the different game modes (on foot versus piloting ship), and it's unlikely there's in-atmosphere flying at all.

    Not gonna call that something I am bothered by, but kinda just loops around my gripes more with the engine and it's technical limitations.
    [Deleted User]TheDalaiBomba
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    edited June 2022
    In case you want to see some details and insights uncovered by pixel-peeping streamers, this guy does a pretty good job of it (32 minutes.)

    Side note: Is it just me or does the city Neon remind anyone else of the 5th Element - I almost expect to see a blue alien singing somewhere in there :)




    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

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