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The Human Toll Of Fallout 76’s Disastrous Launch

DarkZorvanReturnsDarkZorvanReturns Member UncommonPosts: 174
https://kotaku.com/bethesda-zenimax-fallout-76-crunch-development-1849033233

“The amount of people who would go to that project, and then they would quit [Bethesda] was quite high.”
[Deleted User]AlBQuirky
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Comments

  • UwakionnaUwakionna Member UncommonPosts: 198
    "Former ZeniMax developers claim that Fallout 76 was severely mismanaged"

    I like how they put that optimistically in past tense as if it's not still an issue, but I guess it is stated from the perspective of those that have left.
    DarkZorvanReturns[Deleted User]cheyaneAlBQuirkyScothaiduk
  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,295
    edited June 10
    I had fun in this game. I got the Platinum trophy on PS4 when it was new. It just needed a better PvE system and better base building feature for multiple bases since that was the best part of the game. 

    Also the Endgame needed to be spread out more. I kept seeing nukes in the same 1 or 2 zones. Should be more randomized to make the PvE more random.
    AlBQuirkyChampie

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,474
    Torval said:
    I had fun in this game. I got the Platinum trophy on PS4 when it was new. It just needed a better PvE system and better base building feature for multiple bases since that was the best part of the game. 

    Also the Endgame needed to be spread out more. I kept seeing nukes in the same 1 or 2 zones. Should be more randomized to make the PvE more random.
    Players can have multiple bases now. You can only have one out at a time, but you can multiple saved so if you login to a server and your CAMP can't be placed you choose to try another one.

    There are also multiple SPECIAL builds now. You can save them and then switch between them at your CAMP or a train station. This allows you to have a Perception stealth commando, a heavy gunner, and a strength based melee build.

    Players can also now craft and reset their own Legendary items. Legendary stats have also been added to power armour (not that it really needed it but whatevs).

    Those are nice improvements but don't really make up for the lack of variety in content and especially "end game" like you point out. Launching Queen nukes is still the number one activity for several reasons. Those could and should be spread out like you say.
    People tend to forget this was originally designed as a PVP game then doing an about face before release much as New World did.

    Players were expected to launch nukes at each other but also players used to nuke different zones to get resources that were unique to the area but as time wore on they became either not needed or easily traded for.

    Torval may not remember but when we played together one of our mates routinely dropped nukes in Charleston train station if someone else had their camp in "his" spot.




    [Deleted User]AlBQuirky

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,216
    I enjoyed FO76...It was laggy at times on my PC but was a fun experience overall....I just enjoyed 7 Days to Die more and moved on.
    [Deleted User]AlBQuirky
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,216
    Ive built a ton in 7DtD but didn't build that much in FO76...I basically just went bare bones to have a shop so I could sell......My shop was often getting destroyed by wandering Super Mutants (or stronger monsters) and it was getting expensive just to log in and find the place destroyed.
    [Deleted User]AlBQuirky
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 18,361
    People involved with a project that does poorly rarely emerge at the end smiling, so I am not sure how different this example is from what usually happens. The way those in Bethesda who knew their multiplayer (ESO) were ignored for the development of FO76 is more usual, but they paid for that snobbery.
    Kyleran[Deleted User]AlBQuirkyAdamantine
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,677
    The damage is already done, is it not ?

    Since Bethesda was bought by Microsoft.
    AlBQuirky
  • JakobmillerJakobmiller Member UncommonPosts: 450
    It's pretty damn difficult to pull a No Man's Sky and I have no faith that Bethesda would be able to pull it off with Fallout 76 in any way. Watching the new content shown at the game's show made me shake my head. Waste of time and they should probably just move on and make the next one right.
    DarkZorvanReturnsAlBQuirky
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,677
    Well F76 is a MMO, and all MMOs get constant upgrades and fixes and whatnot, do they not ?

    That No Man's Sky as a non-MMO also get this is the absolute exception, not the rule.

  • QbertqQbertq Member UncommonPosts: 165
    I've heard it's improving, but no clue if it's true or not.  I should look into it because it's one of those games I'm predisposed to wanna like.
    AlBQuirky
  • UwakionnaUwakionna Member UncommonPosts: 198
    Until privately hosted servers with modding capability comes to it, not much reason for me to look at 76 again.

    Some of my gripes with that game comes down to how much they have focused into a legendary gear grind and the absurd bullet-spongeyness of mobs. Not even Fallout 1ts with custom world settings solved for that without goofing other parts.

    Not too surprised at the internal issues devs faced with 76, if for no other reason than they were stepping well beyond their expertise.
    AlBQuirky[Deleted User]
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,221
    The damage is already done, is it not ?

    Since Bethesda was bought by Microsoft.

    I wonder about that. My hope is that Microsoft will help Bethesda to actually TEST their games before releasing them :)

    They may eventually recover from Fallout 76, but I'm not watching at all. I was hopeful watching their Starfield trailer, keeping in mind my hopes that Microsoft will help Bethesda TEST the game, since Bethesda has a horrendous "bug problem" in their games.
    [Deleted User]Scot

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,677
    Whow, FO76 is limited to just 24 people ? Then its not a MMO, as far as I'm concerned.

    I dont know what Bethesda is doing wrong, why there are these typical Bethesda bugs in all their games, not to get fixed, ever. We'll see if the ownership by Microsoft does anything about that.

    AlBQuirky
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,474
    Whow, FO76 is limited to just 24 people ? Then its not a MMO, as far as I'm concerned.

    I dont know what Bethesda is doing wrong, why there are these typical Bethesda bugs in all their games, not to get fixed, ever. We'll see if the ownership by Microsoft does anything about that.

    No one ever said it was an MMO, it's a shared multiplayer world with many instances which players can join and navigate through.

    Turned out to be the most social online gaming experience I've had in over 15 years vs say Lost Ark where I've interacted with absolutely no one in the past 4 months except my small circle of friends.

    It's all about the design....

    As for bug fixing issues, they keep repurposing an engine which has always been and likely always will be inherently broken for multiple reasons which can't easily be resolved.

    Sometimes dev teams just need to start over from scratch making sure to keep stability in the forefront of design right from the start.
    [Deleted User]AlBQuirkyMMOExposedAdamantine

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • DarkZorvanReturnsDarkZorvanReturns Member UncommonPosts: 174
    Kyleran said:




    Turned out to be the most social online gaming experience I've had in over 15 years vs say Lost Ark where I've interacted with absolutely no one in the past 4 months except my small circle of friends.


    Only if you turn on voice chat ( nope ), or talk in hieroglyphics like a time traveling  ancient Egyptian. Otherwise, it's a singleplayer game with up to 23 bugged out bots on the server with you.
    KyleranAlBQuirky
  • QbertqQbertq Member UncommonPosts: 165
    That and a ton of other failed launches.  Why does this one rate a separate story.  Should be like Presidents Day.  All of the sad losses from all the sad launches in one.  No separate holidays!

    AlBQuirky
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,677
    Kyleran said:
    No one ever said it was an MMO,
    This is the MMO section of this forum, so any game mentioned here should be a MMO.


    KyleranAlBQuirky
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 18,361
    edited June 23
    Kyleran said:
    No one ever said it was an MMO,
    This is the MMO section of this forum, so any game mentioned here should be a MMO.
    It is actually the pub, so I am just chilling with a beer.

    But you are quite right, those days have sailed though, MMORPG became MMO became anything studios wanted to call a MMO. It is funny because every studio wanted every multiplayer game they had to be called a MMO after WoW came out, then they slowly went of using "MMO" as MMOs became less popular...or so we supposed.

    But I have noticed they are using it more over the last few years, are MMOs suddenly really popular again? I don't think so but it seems to me that they do once again really like to call multiplayer games a MMO.
    AlBQuirky
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,677
    My last posting was very poorly worded. Obviously you can mention non-MMOs as much as you want, but if theres a whole thread about a game here, I would assume it would be a MMO, otherwise it should be in the gaming section.

    We have Pub, General Gaming, Offtopic. Thus I would assume Pub is for discussing MMOs. Non-MMOs into General Gaming, anything else into Offtopic.



    Oh and yes, I think they really ought to switch the game engine if they still cannot manage to fix it. Get people who are more talented/thourough/etc than your current staff to create a new engine. Or use one of the open source ones, IIRC some of them allow commercial use ? Or get a commercial one.

    ScotAlBQuirky
  • DarkZorvanReturnsDarkZorvanReturns Member UncommonPosts: 174
    My last posting was very poorly worded. Obviously you can mention non-MMOs as much as you want, but if theres a whole thread about a game here, I would assume it would be a MMO, otherwise it should be in the gaming section.

    We have Pub, General Gaming, Offtopic. Thus I would assume Pub is for discussing MMOs. Non-MMOs into General Gaming, anything else into Offtopic.



    Oh and yes, I think they really ought to switch the game engine if they still cannot manage to fix it. Get people who are more talented/thourough/etc than your current staff to create a new engine. Or use one of the open source ones, IIRC some of them allow commercial use ? Or get a commercial one.

    I've always treated The Pub like its namesake, a place where friends and strangers gather to shoot the shit about whatever comes up.
    AlBQuirky
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,151
    Torval said:
    While I agree with the sentiment about The Pub, it's technically the place where MMO/MMORPG topics are supposed to be posted. Or at least that was the original intent. If you click the Categories button at the top of the page, the description of The Pub is that it is for MMORPGs and General Gaming or Off Topic is for everything else.

    Not that I personally care either way though, just wanted to try and add some clarity. Post away as you wish as far as I'm concerned.

    Also, almost everything is an MMO game anymore. MMO doesn't have a hard and fast definition. It would be better if they just said "GAAS" games instead of MMO. It would make more sense.
    The problem with the Off-topic forum is that posts there don't appear in the "Recent Discussions" feed as I just confirmed. (See here.) That pretty well kills it as a viable posting forum. Threads just die there.

    IDK about you guys but Recent Discussions is my home page here. If it doesn't appear there, I never see it.
    TheDalaiBombaScotKyleranSovrathAlBQuirky
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,474
    Torval said:
    While I agree with the sentiment about The Pub, it's technically the place where MMO/MMORPG topics are supposed to be posted. Or at least that was the original intent. If you click the Categories button at the top of the page, the description of The Pub is that it is for MMORPGs and General Gaming or Off Topic is for everything else.

    Not that I personally care either way though, just wanted to try and add some clarity. Post away as you wish as far as I'm concerned.

    Also, almost everything is an MMO game anymore. MMO doesn't have a hard and fast definition. It would be better if they just said "GAAS" games instead of MMO. It would make more sense.
    Well you could argue the Fallout 76 forum would have been the appropriate spot, but it's nigh impossible to search for a specific forum on my android browser, have to scroll one page at a time until you come to it 12 pages down.  Never try scroll to say, STO or worse, Xyson.

     :# 

    OldKingLogAlBQuirky

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 18,361
    edited June 24
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:
    While I agree with the sentiment about The Pub, it's technically the place where MMO/MMORPG topics are supposed to be posted. Or at least that was the original intent. If you click the Categories button at the top of the page, the description of The Pub is that it is for MMORPGs and General Gaming or Off Topic is for everything else.

    Not that I personally care either way though, just wanted to try and add some clarity. Post away as you wish as far as I'm concerned.

    Also, almost everything is an MMO game anymore. MMO doesn't have a hard and fast definition. It would be better if they just said "GAAS" games instead of MMO. It would make more sense.
    The problem with the Off-topic forum is that posts there don't appear in the "Recent Discussions" feed as I just confirmed. (See here.) That pretty well kills it as a viable posting forum. Threads just die there.

    IDK about you guys but Recent Discussions is my home page here. If it doesn't appear there, I never see it.
    I never post in off-topic and have probably done so only once or twice in all the time I've been on the site. I mostly post in General Gaming which does show up in the feed regardless whether the game is considered an "MMO" by others.

    My definition of MMO is rather restrictive and if that were the requirement we wouldn't have any posts in The Pub. As far as I'm concerned if its GAAS and the server is somewhat persistent then I'm good. FO76, SWL, EQ2, LotRO, WoW, ESO, FF14.... they're all close enough that I couldn't care less.

    Recent Discussions is also my home here now, especially with how low posting traffic has become. I can find everything easily posted in a day on one page. In fact most days only half the page changes and that can take hours.
    Would we want Off Topic to appear in Recent Discussions, that is debatable? I will sit on the fence for this one.
    AlBQuirky
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,474
    Scot said:
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:
    While I agree with the sentiment about The Pub, it's technically the place where MMO/MMORPG topics are supposed to be posted. Or at least that was the original intent. If you click the Categories button at the top of the page, the description of The Pub is that it is for MMORPGs and General Gaming or Off Topic is for everything else.

    Not that I personally care either way though, just wanted to try and add some clarity. Post away as you wish as far as I'm concerned.

    Also, almost everything is an MMO game anymore. MMO doesn't have a hard and fast definition. It would be better if they just said "GAAS" games instead of MMO. It would make more sense.
    The problem with the Off-topic forum is that posts there don't appear in the "Recent Discussions" feed as I just confirmed. (See here.) That pretty well kills it as a viable posting forum. Threads just die there.

    IDK about you guys but Recent Discussions is my home page here. If it doesn't appear there, I never see it.
    I never post in off-topic and have probably done so only once or twice in all the time I've been on the site. I mostly post in General Gaming which does show up in the feed regardless whether the game is considered an "MMO" by others.

    My definition of MMO is rather restrictive and if that were the requirement we wouldn't have any posts in The Pub. As far as I'm concerned if its GAAS and the server is somewhat persistent then I'm good. FO76, SWL, EQ2, LotRO, WoW, ESO, FF14.... they're all close enough that I couldn't care less.

    Recent Discussions is also my home here now, especially with how low posting traffic has become. I can find everything easily posted in a day on one page. In fact most days only half the page changes and that can take hours.
    Would we want Off Topic to appear in Recent Discussions, that is debatable? I will sit on the fence for this one.
    As low as the post counts have become here lately we probably should want the response comment on MOP linked into Recent Discussions, would add to the lulz at least.

    ;)
    DarkZorvanReturnsAlBQuirky[Deleted User]

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • DarkZorvanReturnsDarkZorvanReturns Member UncommonPosts: 174
    Kyleran said:
    Scot said:
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:
    While I agree with the sentiment about The Pub, it's technically the place where MMO/MMORPG topics are supposed to be posted. Or at least that was the original intent. If you click the Categories button at the top of the page, the description of The Pub is that it is for MMORPGs and General Gaming or Off Topic is for everything else.

    Not that I personally care either way though, just wanted to try and add some clarity. Post away as you wish as far as I'm concerned.

    Also, almost everything is an MMO game anymore. MMO doesn't have a hard and fast definition. It would be better if they just said "GAAS" games instead of MMO. It would make more sense.
    The problem with the Off-topic forum is that posts there don't appear in the "Recent Discussions" feed as I just confirmed. (See here.) That pretty well kills it as a viable posting forum. Threads just die there.

    IDK about you guys but Recent Discussions is my home page here. If it doesn't appear there, I never see it.
    I never post in off-topic and have probably done so only once or twice in all the time I've been on the site. I mostly post in General Gaming which does show up in the feed regardless whether the game is considered an "MMO" by others.

    My definition of MMO is rather restrictive and if that were the requirement we wouldn't have any posts in The Pub. As far as I'm concerned if its GAAS and the server is somewhat persistent then I'm good. FO76, SWL, EQ2, LotRO, WoW, ESO, FF14.... they're all close enough that I couldn't care less.

    Recent Discussions is also my home here now, especially with how low posting traffic has become. I can find everything easily posted in a day on one page. In fact most days only half the page changes and that can take hours.
    Would we want Off Topic to appear in Recent Discussions, that is debatable? I will sit on the fence for this one.
    As low as the post counts have become here lately we probably should want the response comment on MOP linked into Recent Discussions, would add to the lulz at least.

    ;)
    Between the two, they'd almost make a full site.
    AlBQuirkyKyleran
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