I had some real nightmare guilds in the early days of Everquest. Guild Leaders who deliberately blocked entry into dungeons for Nagafen so other guilds could not kill them.
Smaller guilds being bullied to get their clerics to join our guild.
Then the best one or rather the cringiest was when a married couple in the guild started fighting in guildchat because she slept with a 17 year old in our guild too. That one was very bad. Drama supremus maximus.
I joined a guild in EQ2 that demanded we use voice chat....Well the first raid the guild leader and his wife fight the entire time with his young child crying non-stop in the background...If that wasn't bad enough, there was also a young girl in the guild (probably 14 or so), and all the immature idiots were just saying horrible things to and about her.......I never used voice chat again after that.....
I know it was so uncomfortable. I wished they had stopped. She was hiding from him so he confronted her when he found out she was playing.
Later on about a couple of years on when I had moved to another server, the husband was playing a character there too and he sent me a tell asking if I was formerly from Bertoxxulous and from that guild previously and I said 'yes I was'. He said I am so and so and I immediately went 'oh yeah ,yeah I remember you'. He apologized and said it was the wrong thing to do.
I don't blame him. He was feeling very upset and betrayed and people do stuff in a moment and regret later. I have too and regretted it so I should not judge.
Since it was my first guild I have always thought most guilds were like this. I was not really wrong over the years.
That incident with that 14 year old if it happened today you're liable to be in trouble. Loathsome behaviour especially if they knew she was that young.
Posters telling us about problems with guilds made be wonder, is there anywhere else where people can fall out so badly because they don't want the same thing?...Oh yes, relationships.
Posters telling us about problems with guilds made be wonder, is there anywhere else where people can fall out so badly because they don't want the same thing?...Oh yes, relationships.
Haha.. at least it doesn't cost me 50% of my real world stuff each time I fully pledge myself.
I joined Grievance a very large Guild for the opening of FF14. Worst experience of my life.
From the second the game opened they had an entire agenda laid out for us, like it or not. We had to be on voice chat, it was a requirement. The elders of this guild talked among themselves and no one was allowed to get a word in. You instantly knew you were an outsider so you didn't want too anyway. You couldn't speak until spoken to and you were bossed around all day.
At one point I couldn't take the chatter so I turned off the voice.... Instantly I got "don't you like us ?" so I had to explain myself. It was the only time I had to talk and it was to defend myself infront of everyone, all because I simply muted.
I hung in their for a week, but then some girl came on and apparently she was popular and she apologized for playing the game a week late....... Within an hour she was asking who I was and do I belong to the guild and to prove it. This conversation went of for some time and it was embarrassing. I was playing all weak with them and no one sticking up for me.
So much for large name brand popular guilds... This is what you get ! So much for Grievance.
Sooo you had grievances with your guild.
Yes, I can't remember the exact details, but to prove it, my Grievance web site name didn't match my in game character name. By the time I fixed all that, she was logged out.
After explaining to others in voice chat, they understood, but she kicked me out hours later anyway......Had to spend time with the GM that knew me to get back in.
Within a few days, I noticed EVERYONE not an original Grievance member quit also. When I realized the hassle I quit too.
I joined Grievance a very large Guild for the opening of FF14. Worst experience of my life.
From the second the game opened they had an entire agenda laid out for us, like it or not. We had to be on voice chat, it was a requirement. The elders of this guild talked among themselves and no one was allowed to get a word in. You instantly knew you were an outsider so you didn't want too anyway. You couldn't speak until spoken to and you were bossed around all day.
At one point I couldn't take the chatter so I turned off the voice.... Instantly I got "don't you like us ?" so I had to explain myself. It was the only time I had to talk and it was to defend myself infront of everyone, all because I simply muted.
I hung in their for a week, but then some girl came on and apparently she was popular and she apologized for playing the game a week late....... Within an hour she was asking who I was and do I belong to the guild and to prove it. This conversation went of for some time and it was embarrassing. I was playing all weak with them and no one sticking up for me.
So much for large name brand popular guilds... This is what you get ! So much for Grievance.
Sooo you had grievances with your guild.
Yes, I can't remember the exact details, but to prove it, my Grievance web site name didn't match my in game character name. By the time I fixed all that, she was logged out.
After explaining to others in voice chat, they understood, but she kicked me out hours later anyway......Had to spend time with the GM that knew me to get back in.
Within a few days, I noticed EVERYONE not an original Grievance member quit also. When I realized the hassle I quit too.
I just found it a funny coincidence that people have grievances with Grievance, not doubting you mate. It seems their name is an omen.
I believe they had an alliance with the Festivus guild.
I joined Grievance a very large Guild for the opening of FF14. Worst experience of my life.
From the second the game opened they had an entire agenda laid out for us, like it or not. We had to be on voice chat, it was a requirement. The elders of this guild talked among themselves and no one was allowed to get a word in. You instantly knew you were an outsider so you didn't want too anyway. You couldn't speak until spoken to and you were bossed around all day.
At one point I couldn't take the chatter so I turned off the voice.... Instantly I got "don't you like us ?" so I had to explain myself. It was the only time I had to talk and it was to defend myself infront of everyone, all because I simply muted.
I hung in their for a week, but then some girl came on and apparently she was popular and she apologized for playing the game a week late....... Within an hour she was asking who I was and do I belong to the guild and to prove it. This conversation went of for some time and it was embarrassing. I was playing all weak with them and no one sticking up for me.
So much for large name brand popular guilds... This is what you get ! So much for Grievance.
Sooo you had grievances with your guild.
Color me surprised...
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
i could actually see most players, especially casual players, ditching player guilds altogether.
you nailed it on the head though. the clique is the problem with player guilds and your either in it or your not. Most players are usually not, and therefore a structure like an npc guild will serve their needs much better.
of course it wont serve the clique much will it?
I don't see cliques as being a problem.
Everyone belongs to various cliques, it's human nature to seek out a close group of friends. I view this as a power of guilds, and a power of MMORPGs, not a weakness.
Of course, it is frustrating if you wish to be a part of a clique but cannot find your way in. I can see how an NPC guild could be a good alternative for these sorts of frustrated players. But, I also suspect that NPC guilds will be full of just as many cliques as player guilds, the only difference would be that control of the guild wouldn't rest in the hands of a specific individual, or group of people.
But this also brings everything back to the point of this thread: what makes a good guild experience, and what makes it a nightmare.
In a good guild, the leadership will both recognise the benefits of cliques and close friendship, whilst actively working towards breaking down those barriers so the guild doesn't become too tribal.
When I was guild leader, I achieved this through a variety of things. Deliberately organising groups that cross clique-borders, organising training sessions for new players, encouraging discussions in the main guild chat, rather than forcing everyone onto voice chat. Social events were another way to break down barriers within the guild and bring everyone together, both ingame and in real life.
As I was reading your post, "tribalism" came to my mind... then you actually said it later... spot on.
On the same thought thread... why do a lot of guild leaders feel the need to be "top tier / the best" gamers for the particular game. Maybe, to prove legitimacy or respect from guild members?
This is a good point.
I can only speak for myself: I aim to be a top tier gamer, I take a lot of pleasure and satisfaction from mastery of a game.
I became a guild leader not because I wanted the status, or the power, but because there were things I wanted to achieve in the game that were only possible with a strong guild, and our existing guild leader wasn't getting it done. It wasn't that our guild leader was bad, far from it, I simply wanted to experience more than he could offer.
I realised that the only way to achieve what I wanted was to either leave my guild and seek out a "better" one - which would mean leaving behind all my excellent guild friends - or step up and start leading myself. I chose to step up.
Although I've had more than my fair share of negative guild experiences (and some ways of thinking I got introduced to that I wish I never knew about), I also say that I've had a few guild experiences that I wouldn't change for anything. I was once in one so well coordinated that things that people wanted would be listed under the individual on the site and marked off once we got people specific things. What was so great about this is that even newer people could make lists and such so there would be days of events just to help them as well, regardless if they stayed with us or left after getting what they wanted. Social media wasn't so huge back then though so if people did ninja loot or stuff like that, chances were you'd see a post about it in specific forums. Those were also the times when most mmorpgs had a 30 day minimum transfer date per account, so it made it a lot easier figuring who had ill-intentions.
I say all of that to maybe give a different perspective in that maybe it doesn't matter how many bad experiences you've had if the quality of the good experiences is important enough to you.
As much as I love playing MMOs I've never had a good guild experience. Nobody seems to stick around to make the experience worth it.
No matter what guild I join I always end up getting put in charge and if I'm the one running things you know something went wrong somewhere.
I'm good at leading. But I'm also a content locust. I'll get into a game and consume all of the content and then move on unless there's something that keeps me around. A lot of guilds these days are just random single player groups banding together because games arbitrarily reward you for it.
In city of Heroes i stuck around because of the fun of building alts and doing high difficulty content. In Star wars galaxies it was crafting ships and being part of the universe.
Games since then have all had content I could burn through and nothing else worth playing, so after running events and getting other players through content, it gets boring and I move on.
Nobody seems to stick around to make the experience worth it.
This is my experience in the last few years (decades?). MMOs today just don't offer me reasons to stay and play. With EQ, my guild kept me playing long after I would have quit. Once that guild dissolved I left. Same with WoW. We started losing players and eventually collapsed with the new "guild rules" that Cataclysm brought in. Soon after I left, too.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Nobody seems to stick around to make the experience worth it.
This is my experience in the last few years (decades?). MMOs today just don't offer me reasons to stay and play. With EQ, my guild kept me playing long after I would have quit. Once that guild dissolved I left. Same with WoW. We started losing players and eventually collapsed with the new "guild rules" that Cataclysm brought in. Soon after I left, too.
this is another reason why management of guilds needs to be taken over by developers. Games have alot more transient players now especially ones that dont have a sub. This is a huge problem for player guilds but is no problem at all for npc guilds that funnel players by interest.
Nobody seems to stick around to make the experience worth it.
This is my experience in the last few years (decades?). MMOs today just don't offer me reasons to stay and play. With EQ, my guild kept me playing long after I would have quit. Once that guild dissolved I left. Same with WoW. We started losing players and eventually collapsed with the new "guild rules" that Cataclysm brought in. Soon after I left, too.
this is another reason why management of guilds needs to be taken over by developers. Games have alot more transient players now especially ones that dont have a sub. This is a huge problem for player guilds but is no problem at all for npc guilds that funnel players by interest.
That is a point. What many players seek out in gaming is some kind of "leadership", be it in a group, a raid, or especially guilds. Like PvP combat, players can add that extra "oomph" that AI just can't do. I see AI run guilds being quite similar.
I do like the idea of NPC run "job guilds" like a fighters guild or mages guild and such, similar to the "guilds" in the single player Elder Scrolls games
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
theres just so many things you can do with them than you cant with player guilds.
it would be great if you could rise to near the top of a guild based on your skill at playing the game alone. Time trials, gauntlets, missions deciding who is where based only on your results.
if you think about it, it is a massive source of untapped content and a form of endgame content.
each guild could have locals and within the locals certain groups some easy to get into and other more competitive.
its basically pve esports integrated into the game but with purpose. Ive heard of players doing maelstrom arena like 1000 times. Extrapolate that with all kinds of achievement based chats, various leaderboard style focused solo content but you dont get items when you win, you get positions of prestige, and all the things that go with that. Just keep an eye out for the up and comers who want your spot.
Nobody seems to stick around to make the experience worth it.
This is my experience in the last few years (decades?). MMOs today just don't offer me reasons to stay and play. With EQ, my guild kept me playing long after I would have quit. Once that guild dissolved I left. Same with WoW. We started losing players and eventually collapsed with the new "guild rules" that Cataclysm brought in. Soon after I left, too.
this is another reason why management of guilds needs to be taken over by developers. Games have alot more transient players now especially ones that dont have a sub. This is a huge problem for player guilds but is no problem at all for npc guilds that funnel players by interest.
That is a point. What many players seek out in gaming is some kind of "leadership", be it in a group, a raid, or especially guilds. Like PvP combat, players can add that extra "oomph" that AI just can't do. I see AI run guilds being quite similar.
I do like the idea of NPC run "job guilds" like a fighters guild or mages guild and such, similar to the "guilds" in the single player Elder Scrolls games
I can't remember which game it was but one of them put all new players into a noobie guild.....There were a couple of players that mainly answered questions and would help new players with quests and such...It actually worked out really well...The players seemed to enjoy it and many of them didnt leave because they had people to talk to and play the game with.
Nobody seems to stick around to make the experience worth it.
This is my experience in the last few years (decades?). MMOs today just don't offer me reasons to stay and play. With EQ, my guild kept me playing long after I would have quit. Once that guild dissolved I left. Same with WoW. We started losing players and eventually collapsed with the new "guild rules" that Cataclysm brought in. Soon after I left, too.
this is another reason why management of guilds needs to be taken over by developers. Games have alot more transient players now especially ones that dont have a sub. This is a huge problem for player guilds but is no problem at all for npc guilds that funnel players by interest.
That is a point. What many players seek out in gaming is some kind of "leadership", be it in a group, a raid, or especially guilds. Like PvP combat, players can add that extra "oomph" that AI just can't do. I see AI run guilds being quite similar.
I do like the idea of NPC run "job guilds" like a fighters guild or mages guild and such, similar to the "guilds" in the single player Elder Scrolls games
NPC guilds just hasten MMOs to becoming Massively Solo Online games. You are right, there are a lot more transient players, but NPC guilds will just make them even more transient.
Generally speaking if your solution to a change in human behaviour is to cater to that behaviour, all you will get is more of it.
Nobody seems to stick around to make the experience worth it.
This is my experience in the last few years (decades?). MMOs today just don't offer me reasons to stay and play. With EQ, my guild kept me playing long after I would have quit. Once that guild dissolved I left. Same with WoW. We started losing players and eventually collapsed with the new "guild rules" that Cataclysm brought in. Soon after I left, too.
this is another reason why management of guilds needs to be taken over by developers. Games have alot more transient players now especially ones that dont have a sub. This is a huge problem for player guilds but is no problem at all for npc guilds that funnel players by interest.
That is a point. What many players seek out in gaming is some kind of "leadership", be it in a group, a raid, or especially guilds. Like PvP combat, players can add that extra "oomph" that AI just can't do. I see AI run guilds being quite similar.
I do like the idea of NPC run "job guilds" like a fighters guild or mages guild and such, similar to the "guilds" in the single player Elder Scrolls games
NPC guilds just hasten MMOs to becoming Massively Solo Online games. You are right, there are a lot more transient players, but NPC guilds will just make them even more transient.
Generally speaking if your solution to a change in human behaviour is to cater to that behaviour, all you will get is more of it.
my guess is that there is a giant number of players out there that already wont join guilds for whatever reason drama, don't like being fleeced, doesn't work for them, whatever reason.
Im not saying get rid of player guilds at all. Just put in both and let players decide which one is more useful to them. My guess is that there is a giant amount of people out there that want some basic structure to bring them into the sphere of likeminded players, but it has to be open ended, and on the players terms.
i dont think player guilds are doing a good job of it.
Nobody seems to stick around to make the experience worth it.
This is my experience in the last few years (decades?). MMOs today just don't offer me reasons to stay and play. With EQ, my guild kept me playing long after I would have quit. Once that guild dissolved I left. Same with WoW. We started losing players and eventually collapsed with the new "guild rules" that Cataclysm brought in. Soon after I left, too.
this is another reason why management of guilds needs to be taken over by developers. Games have alot more transient players now especially ones that dont have a sub. This is a huge problem for player guilds but is no problem at all for npc guilds that funnel players by interest.
That is a point. What many players seek out in gaming is some kind of "leadership", be it in a group, a raid, or especially guilds. Like PvP combat, players can add that extra "oomph" that AI just can't do. I see AI run guilds being quite similar.
I do like the idea of NPC run "job guilds" like a fighters guild or mages guild and such, similar to the "guilds" in the single player Elder Scrolls games
NPC guilds just hasten MMOs to becoming Massively Solo Online games. You are right, there are a lot more transient players, but NPC guilds will just make them even more transient.
Generally speaking if your solution to a change in human behaviour is to cater to that behaviour, all you will get is more of it.
my guess is that there is a giant number of players out there that already wont join guilds for whatever reason drama, don't like being fleeced, doesn't work for them, whatever reason.
Im not saying get rid of player guilds at all. Just put in both and let players decide which one is more useful to them. My guess is that there is a giant amount of people out there that want some basic structure to bring them into the sphere of likeminded players, but it has to be open ended, and on the players terms.
i dont think player guilds are doing a good job of it.
Nobody seems to stick around to make the experience worth it.
This is my experience in the last few years (decades?). MMOs today just don't offer me reasons to stay and play. With EQ, my guild kept me playing long after I would have quit. Once that guild dissolved I left. Same with WoW. We started losing players and eventually collapsed with the new "guild rules" that Cataclysm brought in. Soon after I left, too.
this is another reason why management of guilds needs to be taken over by developers. Games have alot more transient players now especially ones that dont have a sub. This is a huge problem for player guilds but is no problem at all for npc guilds that funnel players by interest.
That is a point. What many players seek out in gaming is some kind of "leadership", be it in a group, a raid, or especially guilds. Like PvP combat, players can add that extra "oomph" that AI just can't do. I see AI run guilds being quite similar.
I do like the idea of NPC run "job guilds" like a fighters guild or mages guild and such, similar to the "guilds" in the single player Elder Scrolls games
NPC guilds just hasten MMOs to becoming Massively Solo Online games. You are right, there are a lot more transient players, but NPC guilds will just make them even more transient.
Generally speaking if your solution to a change in human behaviour is to cater to that behaviour, all you will get is more of it.
my guess is that there is a giant number of players out there that already wont join guilds for whatever reason drama, don't like being fleeced, doesn't work for them, whatever reason.
Im not saying get rid of player guilds at all. Just put in both and let players decide which one is more useful to them. My guess is that there is a giant amount of people out there that want some basic structure to bring them into the sphere of likeminded players, but it has to be open ended, and on the players terms.
i dont think player guilds are doing a good job of it.
Rungar, I've been following your post on this topic for days and I think it's a load of crap. Sounds like our democratic government "people cant think for them self's so will think for them".
An mmorpg should be a world filled with things to do or a sandbox where the player builds the world. BOTH WAYS THE PLAYER SHOULD BE ABLE TO THINK FOR THEMSELFS.
I think your just trying to sell your idea just to see if you can.
Ive had really good experiences with Guilds overall for the past 25 years .. I still have friends in/from UO for 25 years .. I still am with a great group i hooked up with in Asherons Call ( we have explored many games together )
Outside of that if neither of my static groups is going into a game i have interest in , Ive never had trouble finding a guild of like minded players .. Its actually very easy ..
I honestly do not get when people have trouble finding a guild .. and i will usually attribute it to that individual ..Also seems that many times it is solo-centric players trying to squeeze them selves into a guild , when they really have no business being there..
My best guild experience was in Microsoft Links. Back then we used ventrilo to talk. I played more or less with the same group of guys / gals for 5+ years. Back then most guilds were tight with very few asshats. In my guild we were mostly top tier players so in team matches against weaker teams we would play at champ or elite level and they would play at pro to make it competitive or interesting. We ended up having a real life golf outing up in canada and 2 other guilds joined. It was a blast. Going across the Canadian border was interesting. The lady was like what are you here for and how do you know each other. We had IDs from from different states and tried to explain we play golf online and met up to cross the border. I am not sure if she bought the story, but she let us through. After Links folded some of us switched to shot online which was much more toxic. I played it for years and was able to compete with the top players, but it was just not the same. It also became a huge money grab game where if you did not spend lots of $$ for stat items it did not matter how good you were you could not compete. Some people got divorced over the game one guy lost his house, some were spending thousands of dollars. As far as traditional mmorpgs I rarely join guilds. Most treat them like jobs and you have to do this or that and donate so much $$ and what not. I do enjoy doing dungeons and what not, but don't want to be basically forced to do it.
Nobody seems to stick around to make the experience worth it.
This is my experience in the last few years (decades?). MMOs today just don't offer me reasons to stay and play. With EQ, my guild kept me playing long after I would have quit. Once that guild dissolved I left. Same with WoW. We started losing players and eventually collapsed with the new "guild rules" that Cataclysm brought in. Soon after I left, too.
this is another reason why management of guilds needs to be taken over by developers. Games have alot more transient players now especially ones that dont have a sub. This is a huge problem for player guilds but is no problem at all for npc guilds that funnel players by interest.
That is a point. What many players seek out in gaming is some kind of "leadership", be it in a group, a raid, or especially guilds. Like PvP combat, players can add that extra "oomph" that AI just can't do. I see AI run guilds being quite similar.
I do like the idea of NPC run "job guilds" like a fighters guild or mages guild and such, similar to the "guilds" in the single player Elder Scrolls games
NPC guilds just hasten MMOs to becoming Massively Solo Online games. You are right, there are a lot more transient players, but NPC guilds will just make them even more transient.
Generally speaking if your solution to a change in human behaviour is to cater to that behaviour, all you will get is more of it.
my guess is that there is a giant number of players out there that already wont join guilds for whatever reason drama, don't like being fleeced, doesn't work for them, whatever reason.
Im not saying get rid of player guilds at all. Just put in both and let players decide which one is more useful to them. My guess is that there is a giant amount of people out there that want some basic structure to bring them into the sphere of likeminded players, but it has to be open ended, and on the players terms.
i dont think player guilds are doing a good job of it.
Nobody seems to stick around to make the experience worth it.
This is my experience in the last few years (decades?). MMOs today just don't offer me reasons to stay and play. With EQ, my guild kept me playing long after I would have quit. Once that guild dissolved I left. Same with WoW. We started losing players and eventually collapsed with the new "guild rules" that Cataclysm brought in. Soon after I left, too.
this is another reason why management of guilds needs to be taken over by developers. Games have alot more transient players now especially ones that dont have a sub. This is a huge problem for player guilds but is no problem at all for npc guilds that funnel players by interest.
That is a point. What many players seek out in gaming is some kind of "leadership", be it in a group, a raid, or especially guilds. Like PvP combat, players can add that extra "oomph" that AI just can't do. I see AI run guilds being quite similar.
I do like the idea of NPC run "job guilds" like a fighters guild or mages guild and such, similar to the "guilds" in the single player Elder Scrolls games
NPC guilds just hasten MMOs to becoming Massively Solo Online games. You are right, there are a lot more transient players, but NPC guilds will just make them even more transient.
Generally speaking if your solution to a change in human behaviour is to cater to that behaviour, all you will get is more of it.
my guess is that there is a giant number of players out there that already wont join guilds for whatever reason drama, don't like being fleeced, doesn't work for them, whatever reason.
Im not saying get rid of player guilds at all. Just put in both and let players decide which one is more useful to them. My guess is that there is a giant amount of people out there that want some basic structure to bring them into the sphere of likeminded players, but it has to be open ended, and on the players terms.
i dont think player guilds are doing a good job of it.
Rungar, I've been following your post on this topic for days and I think it's a load of crap. Sounds like our democratic government "people cant think for them self's so will think for them".
An mmorpg should be a world filled with things to do or a sandbox where the player builds the world. BOTH WAYS THE PLAYER SHOULD BE ABLE TO THINK FOR THEMSELFS.
I think your just trying to sell your idea just to see if you can.
I think you are being too harsh Delete, but I do think some players (I am not sure Rungar is one), see other players more as a problem rather than a resource for having a good game.
A good MMO should have many "Social Groups" that a player can be a part of concurrently.
They should have Clans/Tribe/Family, so that players can have their little Cliques, and Statics, and the like.
They should have Organizations/Guilds, that have a reason to exist, they should not be this catch all social hub. They should have a purpose in mind from their creation, and in some way actually be a direct and focused benefit to that game mode/ class/ race / craft etc.
They should have Clans or Societies, this would be your typical MMO guild, just a huge ass social group.
For me, my Static is on Discord, we talk and plan there.
I join guilds in-game based on what they can provide me, and the benefits they offer, if there is no real advantage to joining a guild in a game, and it's really just clique ridden ho-hum drama bullshit, I'll just make a guild with my static, and roll with them.
Truth is, gone are the times when they mattered. Back in EQ, I would meet with my guild mates, in real life, we would gather at hotels, have organized events, it was amazing.
Now days, I join a guild and I can't get them to help me with a quest... so.. yah.. like.. modern guilds are the shitz.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I like the idea of having a family clan, then additional layers radiating outward from that social group.
It wouldn't be that hard: expand the features of the friend's list to turn it into the family clan circle, then add guilds on top, then alliances on top of that as applicable.
Friggin' Dark Age of Camelot was smart enough to add an alliance system all those years ago, and devs just obstinately refuse to acknowledge it was a good system that should honestly be mandatory for every MMORPG worth its salt.
Finding the right guild reveals a truism, the more time you put into something the more likely you are to get the result you want. So take your time, check their webpage, if they don't have one that's a question mark right there. But for you that might not be an issue, you need some information about them though or how will you make a decision?
I have never been in a bad guild because I do my research, even creating a new alt a couple of times to check the guild out before I joined with my main. Having to explain you were checking them out was hardly an issue, so why not?
But guilds need you to understand give and take, you need to be able to understand that or guilds are not for you.
Has the quality of guilds gone down? Yes, but then many factors have been set against them, social media and allowing you to be in multiple guilds online has fractured the guild base, MMO games being made more as one month wonders rather than a home to live in online. All this and more has had an averse effect on guilds, but these days I would not play a MMO unless I found a good one to join.
I don't know that I entirely agree with that, especially the research part. But I think you may be on point on this one. One month wonders. Wish I had thought of that.
I blame the need for external websites on the games lack of similar organization and scheduling features. Because the game doesn't have them, the only recourse is for a guild to make their own website. Imagine a game with built-in management tools for both players and guilds. I never liked the hassle of having to log in to a third party site to read their forums. Give me a single point of interface. Usually fewer security issues, too.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Finding the right guild reveals a truism, the more time you put into something the more likely you are to get the result you want. So take your time, check their webpage, if they don't have one that's a question mark right there. But for you that might not be an issue, you need some information about them though or how will you make a decision?
I have never been in a bad guild because I do my research, even creating a new alt a couple of times to check the guild out before I joined with my main. Having to explain you were checking them out was hardly an issue, so why not?
But guilds need you to understand give and take, you need to be able to understand that or guilds are not for you.
Has the quality of guilds gone down? Yes, but then many factors have been set against them, social media and allowing you to be in multiple guilds online has fractured the guild base, MMO games being made more as one month wonders rather than a home to live in online. All this and more has had an averse effect on guilds, but these days I would not play a MMO unless I found a good one to join.
I don't know that I entirely agree with that, especially the research part. But I think you may be on point on this one. One month wonders. Wish I had thought of that.
I blame the need for external websites on the games lack of similar organization and scheduling features. Because the game doesn't have them, the only recourse is for a guild to make their own website. Imagine a game with built-in management tools for both players and guilds. I never liked the hassle of having to log in to a third party site to read their forums. Give me a single point of interface. Usually fewer security issues, too.
Whilst I am definitely on board for getting more guild features - like raid signups, dkp / sk, maybe a messaging board - put into the games, I am also a big fan of having an out-of-game portal to visit too.
For example, if I wish to sign up for a raid spot, I'd like to be able to do that out of game (as well as in-game) because logging into the game may not be possible. I might be at work, I might be on a business trip, I may simply not feel like logging in that night.
Then there is the issue of multi-game guilds. The guild I was part of for longest had branches in multiple games, at it's peak I think we had a significant presence in 4 MMORPGs as well as running smaller casual groups for some online shooters. In-game guild management won't help organise a multi-game guild.
What I think would be a good solution is to have guild management features built into the game, but then creating an API or similar so that guilds can plug that functionality into their own websites and have everything work out. That way, I can signup in game, or through the guild website, maybe even through the game's official website if they have the API implemented there too. That way, you are putting the choice into the player's hands and they can choose what works for them.
Comments
Later on about a couple of years on when I had moved to another server, the husband was playing a character there too and he sent me a tell asking if I was formerly from Bertoxxulous and from that guild previously and I said 'yes I was'. He said I am so and so and I immediately went 'oh yeah ,yeah I remember you'. He apologized and said it was the wrong thing to do.
I don't blame him. He was feeling very upset and betrayed and people do stuff in a moment and regret later. I have too and regretted it so I should not judge.
Since it was my first guild I have always thought most guilds were like this. I was not really wrong over the years.
That incident with that 14 year old if it happened today you're liable to be in trouble. Loathsome behaviour especially if they knew she was that young.
Silver Lining
Appropriate for guild discussion thread:
I can't remember the exact details, but to prove it, my Grievance web site name didn't match my in game character name. By the time I fixed all that, she was logged out.
After explaining to others in voice chat, they understood, but she kicked me out hours later anyway......Had to spend time with the GM that knew me to get back in.
Within a few days, I noticed EVERYONE not an original Grievance member quit also.
When I realized the hassle I quit too.
[Copyright - Seinfeld Show]
Color me surprised...
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
No matter what guild I join I always end up getting put in charge and if I'm the one running things you know something went wrong somewhere.
I'm good at leading. But I'm also a content locust. I'll get into a game and consume all of the content and then move on unless there's something that keeps me around. A lot of guilds these days are just random single player groups banding together because games arbitrarily reward you for it.
In city of Heroes i stuck around because of the fun of building alts and doing high difficulty content. In Star wars galaxies it was crafting ships and being part of the universe.
Games since then have all had content I could burn through and nothing else worth playing, so after running events and getting other players through content, it gets boring and I move on.
This is my experience in the last few years (decades?). MMOs today just don't offer me reasons to stay and play. With EQ, my guild kept me playing long after I would have quit. Once that guild dissolved I left. Same with WoW. We started losing players and eventually collapsed with the new "guild rules" that Cataclysm brought in. Soon after I left, too.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
it would be great if you could rise to near the top of a guild based on your skill at playing the game alone. Time trials, gauntlets, missions deciding who is where based only on your results.
if you think about it, it is a massive source of untapped content and a form of endgame content.
each guild could have locals and within the locals certain groups some easy to get into and other more competitive.
its basically pve esports integrated into the game but with purpose. Ive heard of players doing maelstrom arena like 1000 times. Extrapolate that with all kinds of achievement based chats, various leaderboard style focused solo content but you dont get items when you win, you get positions of prestige, and all the things that go with that. Just keep an eye out for the up and comers who want your spot.
I can't remember which game it was but one of them put all new players into a noobie guild.....There were a couple of players that mainly answered questions and would help new players with quests and such...It actually worked out really well...The players seemed to enjoy it and many of them didnt leave because they had people to talk to and play the game with.
Generally speaking if your solution to a change in human behaviour is to cater to that behaviour, all you will get is more of it.
Im not saying get rid of player guilds at all. Just put in both and let players decide which one is more useful to them. My guess is that there is a giant amount of people out there that want some basic structure to bring them into the sphere of likeminded players, but it has to be open ended, and on the players terms.
i dont think player guilds are doing a good job of it.
Sounds like our democratic government "people cant think for them self's so will think for them".
An mmorpg should be a world filled with things to do or a sandbox where the player builds the world. BOTH WAYS THE PLAYER SHOULD BE ABLE TO THINK FOR THEMSELFS.
I think your just trying to sell your idea just to see if you can.
After Links folded some of us switched to shot online which was much more toxic. I played it for years and was able to compete with the top players, but it was just not the same. It also became a huge money grab game where if you did not spend lots of $$ for stat items it did not matter how good you were you could not compete. Some people got divorced over the game one guy lost his house, some were spending thousands of dollars.
As far as traditional mmorpgs I rarely join guilds. Most treat them like jobs and you have to do this or that and donate so much $$ and what not. I do enjoy doing dungeons and what not, but don't want to be basically forced to do it.
A good MMO should have many "Social Groups" that a player can be a part of concurrently.
They should have Clans/Tribe/Family, so that players can have their little Cliques, and Statics, and the like.
They should have Organizations/Guilds, that have a reason to exist, they should not be this catch all social hub. They should have a purpose in mind from their creation, and in some way actually be a direct and focused benefit to that game mode/ class/ race / craft etc.
They should have Clans or Societies, this would be your typical MMO guild, just a huge ass social group.
For me, my Static is on Discord, we talk and plan there.
I join guilds in-game based on what they can provide me, and the benefits they offer, if there is no real advantage to joining a guild in a game, and it's really just clique ridden ho-hum drama bullshit, I'll just make a guild with my static, and roll with them.
Truth is, gone are the times when they mattered. Back in EQ, I would meet with my guild mates, in real life, we would gather at hotels, have organized events, it was amazing.
Now days, I join a guild and I can't get them to help me with a quest... so.. yah.. like.. modern guilds are the shitz.
It wouldn't be that hard: expand the features of the friend's list to turn it into the family clan circle, then add guilds on top, then alliances on top of that as applicable.
Friggin' Dark Age of Camelot was smart enough to add an alliance system all those years ago, and devs just obstinately refuse to acknowledge it was a good system that should honestly be mandatory for every MMORPG worth its salt.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.