Part of this game community already seems toxic AF

Slapshot1188

klash2def said:

Wargfoot said:

klash2def said:

Here's the thing about this group, the incels. They hate women because women don't want to sleep with them. After all, they are pathetic examples of human beings. Most of these guys look like they don't even wash their asses. 

I don't know why but I really hate the term 'incels'.
I've a wife and two kids (and a cute grand-baby) so I do have sex.
It isn't a personal attack on me.

It just seems so... base... to evaluate a person on whether or not they're sexually active.  If it is true that woman shouldn't base her self-esteem on a man's valuation of her wouldn't the opposite also be true?  Whether or not a person's genitals are active is in indication of his worth?  Is that where you're going with this thing?

Furthermore, you don't actually know the sex lives of these random people on the internet and the paragraphs you write breaking down their mental state is pure fantasy writing on your part - you literally have no idea whatsoever but use this lame attack to write up a psychological strawman that you then burn to the ground.

You're on much firmer ground with your other arguments.
Point out the bad behavior, suggest positive fixes.

I don't expect any of this to make a difference but when someone uses the term 'incel' I usually stop reading.

Nah nope. They call themselves that stupid shit. You aren't about to sit here and act like I personally made this up. The oxford definition is below.

1. a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile toward women and men who are sexually active.

   "self-identified incels have used the internet to find anonymous support"

They think it's a badge of honor. For you to not feel as if it's a personal attack, you def are defending it like it's a personal attack.

It's not even up for debate.  they are damn near a hate group. 1 march short of joining the proud boyz. Lookup Alek Minassian and Elliot Rodger literally murdered women for not wanting them sexually. 

They were self-described incels. 
 
I don't need to know their personal sex life to know that the people in this community are losers and dont belong in gaming at all.  I also don't need you to agree to anything I write. It's true. Google is still free. They openly say they hate women and say the worth of a woman is equal to whatever amount they are worth in the bed.

They have this viewpoint because they can't get sex partners even though they want one. It's self-induced.  Again, for you to not be affected you sure are acting affected.

So these people you are complaining about for Lost Ark have actually described themselves as "incels"?

I find that skeptical but am open to being shown...

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

klash2def

Wargfoot said:

klash2def said:  Again, for you to not be affected you sure are acting affected.

The thing I find more offensive than any racial slur or name calling is when people take my posts and twist them.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Facts usually have that effect. Man, you are taking this hard! 

Do what you feel you need to do! Mental Health is important! 

Rungar

in my experience people obsessed with identity, what ever that identity is, make really good pawns. 

The interesting part for me is those who are most obsessed with identity have no clue what they actually are. 

surely few would admit to being a pawn. 

Scot

Soulshox said:

It's the F2P community - i wouldn't expect too much

Welcome to the forums!

Scot

MaxBacon said:

Scot said:

Has anyone started a MMO released in the last five years where part of the community is not toxic? In fact I would not regard them as part of the games community which is part of the reason why they are toxic, I also very much doubt they regard themselves as such. Maybe there are more than usual here, but it is par the course now.

idk which MMOs have you been playing, but seeing you are a forum user I can see why you just interact with the toxic sub-sets of a community, both forums, reddit subs, etc.

There are MMOs with very healthy communities both in-game and within community creators, that is where you tell the difference.

As soon as you said "community creators" I raised an eyebrow, you are talking about people who actually create nothing in game and what they do for the community apart from hype the game up is questionable. But I am always willing to stand corrected, can you tell us the names of a couple of games like this that launched in the last five years?

MaxBacon

Scot said:

As soon as you said "community creators" I raised an eyebrow, you are talking about people who actually create nothing in game and what they do for the community apart from hype the game up is questionable. But I am always willing to stand corrected, can you tell us the names of a couple of games like this that launched in the last five years?

creators go beyond a streamer or video creator, talking about the large support some games see with developers creating tools, systems, large undertakings on fansites, wikis, etc, that become core pieces that support a game, that's all part of an healthy community to me.

I won't go by "launch date" because MMO-wise the mainstream titles around are on their vast majority older titles.  GW2 for me is one of the better ones, it has assholes as every place has, but a lot of friendly people that do fight that culture of, LOTRO was also a nice experience for me when I played it.

Kyleran

MaxBacon said:

Scot said:

As soon as you said "community creators" I raised an eyebrow, you are talking about people who actually create nothing in game and what they do for the community apart from hype the game up is questionable. But I am always willing to stand corrected, can you tell us the names of a couple of games like this that launched in the last five years?

creators go beyond a streamer or video creator, talking about the large support some games see with developers creating tools, systems, large undertakings on fansites, wikis, etc, that become core pieces that support a game, that's all part of an healthy community to me.

I won't go by "launch date" because MMO-wise the mainstream titles around are on their vast majority older titles.  GW2 for me is one of the better ones, it has assholes as every place has, but a lot of friendly people that do fight that culture of, LOTRO was also a nice experience for me when I played it.

Well sure, just like every game has a positive group of content creators, i.e EVE, definitely are some big jerks including some who provide pretty good content, such as Goons.

All games have negative and positive sides to their communities, and I do my best to associate only with those on the high side.

klash2def

Slapshot1188 said:

So these people you are complaining about for Lost Ark have actually described themselves as "incels"?

I find that skeptical but am open to being shown...

I never said the Lost Ark complainers described themselves as anything. 

I did say Incels describe themselves as what they are. 

I also said the complaining about less skimpy clothing and skin tones is coming from the incel group. They judge how good a game is based on if the female characters in the game are "f"able or not. That's the exact rhetoric they have. Ive seen these exact rhetoric hundreds of times for other games over the years. This is not the first time/game. I don't care if they admit to being incels or not. Just like I don't need to hear a person say they stole my car if I see them driving off in my car without my permission to know they are a car thief. 

Most incels only act the way they do in groups/spaces where they feel safe to say the shit they say. Confront them 1v1 and they back down and cower. So you aren't proving anything by asking if they said they were incels or not. I don't give a flying damn what they admit. I don't need them to admit it, I can hear it in the words they fix their gnarled fingers to type.  Ive been seeing it for years. This site included. I call it as I see it. Saying racist shit makes one racist. Saying sexist hateful shit aimed at women makes one an incel. All of it makes you a full-time bigot. 

Simple concept, don't let it go over your head.  

I guess some people need to be spoon-fed. Or in your case, sword fed. 

Kratier

MaxBacon said:

Kratier said:

you aren't looking to have a discussion, you're trying to shut down the discussion, and to start a narration by insulting someone like myself and  using sexual harassment as an argument is pretty pathetic

"wah incel" isn't an argument. lost ark is the topic, not lotr, not ellie, whatever else.

you're arguments are worthless and pathetic, as the game already existed in another region and was successful for many years, this publisher came in and decided to ruin all the character creation presets, blackface half the npcs, and butcher all the cosmetics

no publisher came in and patched in ellie as a homosexual, or an already existing LOTR series or movie and changed the skin tone of half the cast.

its really pointless to argue with someone like this, they aren't trying to make a point, just an emotionally deranged plea for effect

It's pointless to argue because you are talking BS.

It's absolute hyperbole and assumptions with the  "butchered all the cosmetics" (absolute BS statement it has been stated so many times the skins are not being removed/altered to a specific west version), "blackfaced half of the npcs" (played the betas and this is obviously not the case), or ruined character creation. 


In fact this version has MORE character customization options, as requested to SmileGate, it's insanity to me to be throwing this tantrum over black faces when they added more possible customization to players.


Just move on already, unless you're unable to co-exist with a version that has some black faces here and there, then go play the other versions.

your entire post is just a flat out lie here, and the point of why i barely argue with people on the internet any more. you're flat out lying,

if you go and find any legitimate longstanding discussions of the censorship and choices of amazon for global release shows clearly yes exactly what i said happened, its well documented and there is a long list of  comparison screenshots that clearly outline the differences. Saying it isn't the case is just lying. And no, there is not more, people who played other versions simply cannot import their character customization because half of them were removed and replaced.

I'll just ignore the part where you try to claim i'm racist because I don't condone blackfacing asians.

Scot

MaxBacon said:

Scot said:

As soon as you said "community creators" I raised an eyebrow, you are talking about people who actually create nothing in game and what they do for the community apart from hype the game up is questionable. But I am always willing to stand corrected, can you tell us the names of a couple of games like this that launched in the last five years?

creators go beyond a streamer or video creator, talking about the large support some games see with developers creating tools, systems, large undertakings on fansites, wikis, etc, that become core pieces that support a game, that's all part of an healthy community to me.

I won't go by "launch date" because MMO-wise the mainstream titles around are on their vast majority older titles.  GW2 for me is one of the better ones, it has assholes as every place has, but a lot of friendly people that do fight that culture of, LOTRO was also a nice experience for me when I played it.

I regard "content creators" as just another social media junky, but lets agree to differ. I agree with you about Lotro and I am happy to agree about GW2 as well even though it had a very short shelf life for me.

The thing is the "launched in the last five years" is the crux of what I am getting at, good communities in "newly" launched MMOs seem a rare bird indeed. I think changes in what people expect online behaviour to be are to blame.

Don't think about what I have just said, just love me or hate me!

Kratier

lets hope the mods actually do something about this klash2def guy. doubt it.

TheDalaiBomba

No, @MaxBacon is correct.

I've seen the comparison pictures.  The entire outrage is stupid as hell.

MaxBacon

Kyleran said:

Well sure, just like every game has a positive group of content creators, i.e EVE, definitely are some big jerks including some who provide pretty good content, such as Goons.

All games have negative and positive sides to their communities, and I do my best to associate only with those on the high side.

The PvP or competitive aspect of it is more different, and is the same on Albion, the main tool creators and all are many times even internal for competitive boosts/etc (at times paid by a guild or alliance), but devs do tend to like to increase the reach of their work.

Scot said:

I regard "content creators" as just another social media junky, but lets agree to differ. I agree with you about Lotro and I am happy to agree about GW2 as well even though it had a very short shelf life for me.

The thing is the "launched in the last five years" is the crux of what I am getting at, good communities in "newly" launched MMOs seem a rare bird indeed. I think changes in what people expect online behaviour to be are to blame.

Don't think about what I have just said, just love me or hate me!

That comes together with how weak MMO releases have been, not able to become follow-up games for the many people that are still on MMOs that are generally over 10 years old.

To me Lost Ark is similar to GW2 community, even when playing on translation versions there's so many people who will help, guide, play with you, this core veteran veteran base the west will already start with gets defensive with the 101 bs dramas mudslinged at LA because of Amazon this that, but it doesn't reflect in-game.

TheDalaiBomba

TwistedSister77 said:

I personally enjoyed a lot of African Amerinan movies.. especially groundbreaking ones (Boys N Hood, Friday movies, Lion King, Glory, 7 years, Tarantino films...etc. )

I literally have zero idea what this Lost Ark issue is... I did watch Arcade on Netflix and it was a new IP that was well done  (that pretty much is very diverse). This is how it should be done, not retcon'ng authors for diversity sake.

Tolkien stated he was writing a mythology for the English people (meaning England 1900s)... so I'm confused...

Should they reboot BoysNHood with white gangbangers... I'm sure everyone would be awesome with that?  We know the answer...

There are awesome stories from African culture... and around the world.

My position, don't slip in characters into an existing IP for a particular message... it's just a different culture.

The shame is, I really enjoy different cultures when I travel around the world... let's not homogenize them completely. 

Yeah I'm a terrible person for acknowledging cultures should be preserved and not put in a smoothie blender.  

They did create a white gangbangers movie, btw.  It's called The Town, starring Ben Affleck.  Good movie, too.

MaxBacon

Kratier said:

 Saying it isn't the case is just lying. And no, there is not more, people who played other versions simply cannot import their character customization because half of them were removed and replaced.

I would like to se evidence of this, you're claiming supposed facts but to my knowledge, there hasn't been character customization removals or model changes on current ones that would impact the possibility to re-create a character. 

klash2def

Kratier said:

lets hope the mods actually do something about this klash2def guy. doubt it.

Do what exactly? Ive done nothing but tell the truth. Oh, I get it.. you think you can silence me from speaking the truth about incel culture.

"Do something about this klash2def guy" 

I guess

Kratier

TheDalaiBomba said:

No, @MaxBacon is correct.

I've seen the comparison pictures.  The entire outrage is stupid as hell.

okay guy, you claim it didn't happen, now claim you know it happened, and seeing the evidence of it happening you fall back on a "whatever!" type response?

sigh, this is why i don't argue with idiots on the internet much any more. Go quote the kid's 3 page rant about incels some more.

klash2def

Kratier said:

TheDalaiBomba said:

No, @MaxBacon is correct.

I've seen the comparison pictures.  The entire outrage is stupid as hell.

okay guy, you claim it didn't happen, now claim you know it happened, and seeing the evidence of it happening you fall back on a "whatever!" type response?

sigh, this is why i don't argue with idiots on the internet much any more. Go quote the kid's 3 page rant about incels some more.

TheDalaiBomba

Kyleran said:

Well sure, just like every game has a positive group of content creators, i.e EVE, definitely are some big jerks including some who provide pretty good content, such as Goons.

All games have negative and positive sides to their communities, and I do my best to associate only with those on the high side.

Wait wait wait.  By high side, do you mean the positive side, or.....

klash2def

tzervo said:

klash2def said:

Kratier said:

lets hope the mods actually do something about this klash2def guy. doubt it.

Do what exactly? Ive done nothing but tell the truth. Oh, I get it.. you think you can silence me from speaking the truth about incel culture.

You attacked and insulted everyone who disagreed with you.

And the biggest offense of all: posting annoying gifs. 

You sure about that? Might wanna read what I wrote again. I didn't insult a person in this thread... Unless that person in this thread happens to be an incel? I said some unfavorable things about incels. 

By telling the truth about their culture and how they treat POC and women. Yeap.. I insulted someone alright. Certainly feels like it based on the replies I'm getting from people defending.. *checks notes* INCELS.

I always find it funny how when I start responding to people that come at me with bs, suddenly it's "I attacked" I guess it makes it sound more violent huh? Makes you feel like you have a case against me when you say I  "attacked" somebody. 

Everyone else gets the benefit of just a response. But not me. I must attack a person!

Keep lying. Im getting a good laugh. Damn yall really will say and do anything to silence somebody.. even lie. it's wild! 

TheDalaiBomba

Kratier said:

TheDalaiBomba said:

No, @MaxBacon is correct.

I've seen the comparison pictures.  The entire outrage is stupid as hell.

okay guy, you claim it didn't happen, now claim you know it happened, and seeing the evidence of it happening you fall back on a "whatever!" type response?

sigh, this is why i don't argue with idiots on the internet much any more. Go quote the kid's 3 page rant about incels some more.

I didn't claim changes didn't happen.

I also haven't quoted klash2def in this thread.

I know barely anything about the game other than positive reviews on Steam.  I had to look up this nothingburger of a controversy, and I came away simply annoyed your claims caused me to waste time I'll never get back reading about it.

Also, sorry for the double post.  This thread is quite hot atm, so I didn't see this response until after I posted the last.

klash2def

tzervo said:

Q.E.D.

MaxBacon

IN RELEVANT NEWS..... PRE-DOWNLOAD HAS BEGUN 

Less talk moar grind

Kratier

too early to be dealing with people who do nothing but lie . if you can't make a point or argue any reasons why bother ?

oh my goodness, and this guy, you literally had the entire page full because you quoted his 3 page rant, and then made a 1 sentence comment about some stupid movies in your post

it is way too early for this shit.