Is there something wrong with making money and having fun doing it? P2E

bcbully

I don't think there is. 

Scorchien

bcbully said:

I don't think there is. 

i been doing that my entire life:)

Nilden

So if everyone shows up expecting to make money playing the game how exactly is the game supposed to make money?

bcbully

Nilden said:

So if everyone shows up expecting to make money playing the game how exactly is the game supposed to make money?

WoW made 293 million in 2020. 

Acti/Blizz Made 8 billion

Nilden

bcbully said:

Nilden said:

So if everyone shows up expecting to make money playing the game how exactly is the game supposed to make money?

WoW made 293 million in 2020. 

WoW isn't a P2E game.

People are paying to play it. 

If you dump $1000 into buying land and then make $100 bucks playing the game calling that P2E is pretty misleading. Your response has nothing to do with how a P2E game paying people to play it will make money.

bcbully

Nilden said:

bcbully said:

Nilden said:

So if everyone shows up expecting to make money playing the game how exactly is the game supposed to make money?

WoW made 293 million in 2020. 

WoW isn't a P2E game.

People are paying to play it. 

If you dump $1000 into buying land and then make $100 bucks playing the game calling that P2E is pretty misleading. Your response has nothing to do with how a P2E game paying people to play it will make money.

Well to be fair your post did answer the question "is there something wrong with making money and having fun."

Look up Axie then come back and tell us how they do it.

Nilden

So how much did Acti/Blizz pay it's players?

bcbully

Nilden said:

So how much did Acti/Blizz pay it's players?

Nothing in fact they banned players for trying to make money.

Now, is there anything wrong with making money and having fun?

Quizzical

No, there's nothing wrong with having a job that you love.  If you enjoy your job as a high school teacher or an apple farmer or a long-haul truck driver, then good for you.  The problem is that I don't think that's what you meant.

Making money off of gambling isn't nearly so reliable as making money from a job that is actually productive.

bcbully

Quizzical said:

No, there's nothing wrong with having a job that you love.  If you enjoy your job as a high school teacher or an apple farmer or a long-haul truck driver, then good for you.  The problem is that I don't think that's what you meant.

Making money off of gambling isn't nearly so reliable as making money from a job that is actually productive.

What if your job is gaming? What if gaming is your hobbie? 

If you love gaming is there something wrong with either making money? 

Quizzical

bcbully said:

Quizzical said:

No, there's nothing wrong with having a job that you love.  If you enjoy your job as a high school teacher or an apple farmer or a long-haul truck driver, then good for you.  The problem is that I don't think that's what you meant.

Making money off of gambling isn't nearly so reliable as making money from a job that is actually productive.

What if your job is gaming? What if gaming is your hobbie? 

If you love gaming is there something wrong with either making money? 

There's nothing wrong with making money as a game developer or quality assurance play tester.  Those are legitimate jobs, and if you enjoy them, that's great.  But I don't think that's what you mean, either.

What you mean by a job in gaming is probably something more akin to being a professional gambler.

bcbully

Quizzical said:

bcbully said:

Quizzical said:

No, there's nothing wrong with having a job that you love.  If you enjoy your job as a high school teacher or an apple farmer or a long-haul truck driver, then good for you.  The problem is that I don't think that's what you meant.

Making money off of gambling isn't nearly so reliable as making money from a job that is actually productive.

What if your job is gaming? What if gaming is your hobbie? 

If you love gaming is there something wrong with either making money? 

There's nothing wrong with making money as a game developer or quality assurance play tester.  Those are legitimate jobs, and if you enjoy them, that's great.  But I don't think that's what you mean, either.

What you mean by a job in gaming is probably something more akin to being a professional gambler.

Nah I was thinking more a kin to mmorpgs, to shooters, to strategy games, to trading card games, to racing games,  you know video games. 

I disagree. I don't think you need to make the game, or be paid by someone to test a game, in order for it to be ok to make money gaming. 

I think it's ok if you enjoy playing the game to make money. Do you mind telling my why you think this is wrong?

Amaranthar

Quizzical said:

bcbully said:

Quizzical said:

No, there's nothing wrong with having a job that you love.  If you enjoy your job as a high school teacher or an apple farmer or a long-haul truck driver, then good for you.  The problem is that I don't think that's what you meant.

Making money off of gambling isn't nearly so reliable as making money from a job that is actually productive.

What if your job is gaming? What if gaming is your hobbie? 

If you love gaming is there something wrong with either making money? 

There's nothing wrong with making money as a game developer or quality assurance play tester.  Those are legitimate jobs, and if you enjoy them, that's great.  But I don't think that's what you mean, either.

What you mean by a job in gaming is probably something more akin to being a professional gambler.

I think it's more like speculating on a market, where most people aren't professionals, and don't have any idea how it can be manipulated. 

(Pump and dump, for example.) 
Most gamers who buy NFTs (or anything) will lose their "investment." 

Another aspect of all of this is how they make the games. They'll lock in on the typical level grinds, because of the levelling gear and constant uber power gaps, as well as everything else. 
Its fixed content is all so scriptable and provides level after level of possible RMT sales. 

bcbully

Amaranthar said:

Quizzical said:

bcbully said:

Quizzical said:

No, there's nothing wrong with having a job that you love.  If you enjoy your job as a high school teacher or an apple farmer or a long-haul truck driver, then good for you.  The problem is that I don't think that's what you meant.

Making money off of gambling isn't nearly so reliable as making money from a job that is actually productive.

What if your job is gaming? What if gaming is your hobbie? 

If you love gaming is there something wrong with either making money? 

There's nothing wrong with making money as a game developer or quality assurance play tester.  Those are legitimate jobs, and if you enjoy them, that's great.  But I don't think that's what you mean, either.

What you mean by a job in gaming is probably something more akin to being a professional gambler.

I think it's more like speculating on a market, where most people aren't professionals, and don't have any idea how it can be manipulated. 

(Pump and dump, for example.) 
Most gamers who buy NFTs (or anything) will lose their "investment." 

Another aspect of all of this is how they make the games. They'll lock in on the typical level grinds, because of the levelling gear and constant uber power gaps, as well as everything else. 
Its fixed content is all so scriptable and provides level after level of possible RMT sales. 

Do you mind giving an example of the game you're talking about? Sounds like you're talking about Black Desert. That's not P2E though.

WhiteLantern

It's like my dad used to say "money don't grow on blockchains, boy". Or something like that.

bcbully

WhiteLantern said:

It's like my dad used to say "money don't grow on blockchains, boy". Or something like that.

You're dad would be wrong if he said that  . I've just about paid for a graphics card  helping secure the Ethereum blockchain.

Kyleran

Quizzical said:

bcbully said:

Quizzical said:

No, there's nothing wrong with having a job that you love.  If you enjoy your job as a high school teacher or an apple farmer or a long-haul truck driver, then good for you.  The problem is that I don't think that's what you meant.

Making money off of gambling isn't nearly so reliable as making money from a job that is actually productive.

What if your job is gaming? What if gaming is your hobbie? 

If you love gaming is there something wrong with either making money? 

There's nothing wrong with making money as a game developer or quality assurance play tester.  Those are legitimate jobs, and if you enjoy them, that's great.  But I don't think that's what you mean, either.

What you mean by a job in gaming is probably something more akin to being a professional gambler.

More like an independent gold farmer,  have been people doing that sort of work / fun for many years now.

Don't think for a minute the professional RMT companies won't be all over this as well, and they'll heavily influence how the market goes.

TheDalaiBomba

bcbully said:

WhiteLantern said:

It's like my dad used to say "money don't grow on blockchains, boy". Or something like that.

You're dad would be wrong if he said that  . I've just about paid for a graphics card  helping secure the Ethereum blockchain.

You do realize mining that specific blockchain is literally creating the price craziness for said graphics card?

That specific blockchain was developed to prevent ASICs from being able to dominate mining, meaning the pressure from mining that blockchain falls right back onto the graphics card supply.

olepi

Will you still enjoy it and have fun if you lose money instead of making it?

bcbully

olepi said:

Will you still enjoy it and have fun if you lose money instead of making it?

That's a great question if people were able to lose money playing like PLEX in EVE or rare NFT armor drops, I'd suspect many would not, but some would.

Most games aren't made like EVE though and most are not full loot. You don't lose money in TCG. You don't lose money in shooters either. You don't lose money in most games.

Quizzical

bcbully said:

Quizzical said:

bcbully said:

Quizzical said:

No, there's nothing wrong with having a job that you love.  If you enjoy your job as a high school teacher or an apple farmer or a long-haul truck driver, then good for you.  The problem is that I don't think that's what you meant.

Making money off of gambling isn't nearly so reliable as making money from a job that is actually productive.

What if your job is gaming? What if gaming is your hobbie? 

If you love gaming is there something wrong with either making money? 

There's nothing wrong with making money as a game developer or quality assurance play tester.  Those are legitimate jobs, and if you enjoy them, that's great.  But I don't think that's what you mean, either.

What you mean by a job in gaming is probably something more akin to being a professional gambler.

Nah I was thinking more a kin to mmorpgs, to shooters, to strategy games, to trading card games, to racing games,  you know video games. 

I disagree. I don't think you need to make the game, or be paid by someone to test a game, in order for it to be ok to make money gaming. 

I think it's ok if you enjoy playing the game to make money. Do you mind telling my why you think this is wrong?

It's not so much that it's morally wrong as that it's unreliable.  Hence the professional gambler comparison.  If you go to Vegas thinking that you're going to play blackjack for a living, it might even seem like it's working for a while.  But it's still foolish to think that's going to be a career, or even to assume that you'll make money on net as opposed to losing it.

As Walter Williams used to say, think of a dollar bill as being a certificate of achievement.  You did something that made someone else happy, and so he gave you a dollar bill to commemorate this.  Because the other person thinks it was a good deal, he'll be happy to give you plenty more in the future if you keep doing whatever it is that he wants.  That's what allows paid employment to be relatively stable.

If you're not doing what someone else wants (employers for most, or customers if you run your own business), then why should anyone pay you money?  Maybe you can finagle it now and then, but it's unreliable.  Hence the comparison to gambling.

I'm not saying that gambling is wrong.  I am saying that you shouldn't rely on it as a source of income.  And that you shouldn't gamble money that you can't afford to lose.

Kyleran

Making money while playing a game and having fun sounds too good to be true, so it probably is.

Losing money while playing a game sounds terrible, which is why I don't gamble in Casinos and never thought of transporting PLEX around in EVE, some folks lost hundreds if not thousands in real money when they got caught by the wrong folks.

bcbully

Quizzical said:

bcbully said:

Quizzical said:

bcbully said:

Quizzical said:

No, there's nothing wrong with having a job that you love.  If you enjoy your job as a high school teacher or an apple farmer or a long-haul truck driver, then good for you.  The problem is that I don't think that's what you meant.

Making money off of gambling isn't nearly so reliable as making money from a job that is actually productive.

What if your job is gaming? What if gaming is your hobbie? 

If you love gaming is there something wrong with either making money? 

There's nothing wrong with making money as a game developer or quality assurance play tester.  Those are legitimate jobs, and if you enjoy them, that's great.  But I don't think that's what you mean, either.

What you mean by a job in gaming is probably something more akin to being a professional gambler.

Nah I was thinking more a kin to mmorpgs, to shooters, to strategy games, to trading card games, to racing games,  you know video games. 

I disagree. I don't think you need to make the game, or be paid by someone to test a game, in order for it to be ok to make money gaming. 

I think it's ok if you enjoy playing the game to make money. Do you mind telling my why you think this is wrong?

It's not so much that it's morally wrong as that it's unreliable.  Hence the professional gambler comparison.  If you go to Vegas thinking that you're going to play blackjack for a living, it might even seem like it's working for a while.  But it's still foolish to think that's going to be a career, or even to assume that you'll make money on net as opposed to losing it.

As Walter Williams used to say, think of a dollar bill as being a certificate of achievement.  You did something that made someone else happy, and so he gave you a dollar bill to commemorate this.  Because the other person thinks it was a good deal, he'll be happy to give you plenty more in the future if you keep doing whatever it is that he wants.  That's what allows paid employment to be relatively stable.

If you're not doing what someone else wants (employers for most, or customers if you run your own business), then why should anyone pay you money?  Maybe you can finagle it now and then, but it's unreliable.  Hence the comparison to gambling.

I'm not saying that gambling is wrong.  I am saying that you shouldn't rely on it as a source of income.  And that you shouldn't gamble money that you can't afford to lose.

Thanks for the insight.

I agree gaming for a job would be/ is tough. Heck like Tom Hanks said. If it was easy everyone would be doing it.

laserit

bcbully said:

I don't think there is. 

It really depends on so many variables. In some ways it’s harmless and in other ways it’s very damaging.

 It’s not something to rush all in, for.

Imho 

Ungood

I have heard, if you are not buying the product, you are the product.

Something that still rings with me as I see these Blockchain/NFT games come out, and people tell me that I can make money doing them.

Maybe I can, but that would require someway for me to be the product.. 

Nothing wrong with that, as long as we understand what is going on, we are still going to be working for someone, because the game company will get their cut, and we are just going to be working in a gig economy to make our millions.

Kyleran

laserit said:

bcbully said:

I don't think there is. 

It really depends on so many variables. In some ways it’s harmless and in other ways it’s very damaging.

 It’s not something to rush all in, for.

Imho 

One thing I've always struggled against is a strong sense of FOMO in MMORPGs, probably because they are quite often designed to prey on such.

Adding an economic incentive to the mix just isn't something in my best interest.