Hate to break it to everyone...but the majority of people that make and play games, most likely have some form or fashion of compulsive behavior ticking away in their heads.
"Compulsive behavior is defined as performing an action persistently and repetitively without it necessarily leading to an actual reward or pleasure.
Loot boxes are just the latest way others make cash off of gamers behavior. Getting gamers to admit that they are basically the same as monkeys that will push buttons till they die for some rewards... ya, good luck with that.
The lengths people will go to to deceive themselves are literally endless...
Wouldn't it be cool if everything you bought in life came in the form of a loot box? Go to the store, buy mystery cereal, you either get something edible, but not very good, or the cereal that is actually on the outside of the box.
Actually it kind of already is when it comes to buying a new car in the midst of a chip and part shortage. You don't know what they are going to remove, but buy it and hope you get what you you want, but oh, you are gonna pay msrp with everyone else, if not over. Right now it seems to be head-up displays and other random parts they have a shortage of across the board. The person who makes their purchase at the right time gets what is advertised.
Eitherway game loot boxes are the same thing, everyone pays a marked up price, some folks are just more lucky than others.
You have the right to spend your money and make your money anyway you like.
One has the right to make and spend money any way the law allows, which may or not be in accordance with what one likes.
Really?
First paste in the next sentence (it was a two sentence paragraph) and then put the statement in the context of loot boxes and video games.
If we're discussing life, I will reevaluate my statement.
Thank you
Yes, really. My response to your first sentence was also in the context of loot box discussion, a context that extends beyond your post nevermind paragraph. The second sentence of the paragraph was irrelevant in that context so not responded to.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I mean people are campaigning to make drugs legal and yet here you are.
I don't agree with making it illegal. It should be legal. But, if it is gambling, then label it as gambling, better yet, tax it as gambling.
And yes, gambling should also be legal my poor American friends.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
I mean people are campaigning to make drugs legal and yet here you are.
I don't agree with making it illegal. It should be legal. But, if it is gambling, then label it as gambling, better yet, tax it as gambling.
And yes, gambling should also be legal my poor American friends.
If governments or churches wanted to set up one armed bandits in government buildings and churches, they could,
What stops them from doing it is self respect and a sense of decorum.
That moral compass is missing from gaming where it's just "if the rubes buy it, we'll sell it." Anyone who gives a shit about quality gaming should get off their libertarian soap boxes and give their fucking heads a shake.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Gambling addiction is a real problem. This is the dark side of these loot boxes, as that is exactly who they are targeting.
These major studios have hired psychologists to help target addiction and make these Gatcha mechanics as addictive as possible, so to get people to spend as much as possible.
Big corporations like ActiVision have been exposed with job listings and internal documents.
The worst is that this is happening more and more in games now, targeted at minors / children! These have no impuls control (yet) and are very vulnerable.
That is why this is utterly disgusting and needs to get Government oversight.
Kids and teenagers( aka minors ) are not allowed to gamble nor enter Casinos either. In many countries gambling is even illegal!
Yet these game studios are getting away with it, since its hidden inside games. Its basically just an ordinary loophole in current laws.
Luckily we now slowly see more and more countries to start looking into it and some have already implemented new/updated gambling laws to include games and in some countries loot boxes are now illegal / banned.
You have the right to spend your money and make your money anyway you like.
One has the right to make and spend money any way the law allows, which may or not be in accordance with what one likes.
Really?
First paste in the next sentence (it was a two sentence paragraph) and then put the statement in the context of loot boxes and video games.
If we're discussing life, I will reevaluate my statement.
Thank you
Yes, really. My response to your first sentence was also in the context of loot box discussion, a context that extends beyond your post nevermind paragraph. The second sentence of the paragraph was irrelevant in that context so not responded to.
Lol ok well the law does seem to allow for pretty much anything when it comes to loot boxes and video games as long as there is nothing of real value given to the customer.
Gambling addiction is a real problem. This is the dark side of these loot boxes, as that is exactly who they are targeting.
These major studios have hired psychologists to help target addiction and make these Gatcha mechanics as addictive as possible, so to get people to spend as much as possible.
Big corporations like ActiVision have been exposed with job listings and internal documents.
The worst is that this is happening more and more in games now, targeted at minors / children! These have no impuls control (yet) and are very vulnerable.
That is why this is utterly disgusting and needs to get Government oversight.
Kids and teenagers( aka minors ) are not allowed to gamble nor enter Casinos either. In many countries gambling is even illegal!
Yet these game studios are getting away with it, since its hidden inside games. Its basically just an ordinary loophole in current laws.
Luckily we now slowly see more and more countries to start looking into it and some have already implemented new/updated gambling laws to include games and in some countries loot boxes are now illegal / banned.
I think you have hit the nail on the head. The problem isn't the fact that its gambling per say, rather than its un legislated gambling, open to potentially the most vulnerable demographic in society (Minors).
I mean its not like any of these games primary audience are minors right
If we have gambling in games, fine. Mark it as such, legislation should then be applied that conforms worldwide to the gambling laws within the country its being played from.
The reason we have gambling legislation in all sectors aside from games/mmos, is to try and stop the criminal elements of society (of which gambling companies to a large extent are part of ) targeting the vulnerable members of society.
Why anyone would think that Game companies shouldn't be targeted with the same legislation is beyond me.
Let's be very clear , every single one of these games has an EULA that clearly states that the systems are not for minors , so if you are letting kids run rampant with a cc on the internet, that would be the adults fault , and if the adult is running rampant with cc on the internet spending what they cannot afford , well they have the responsibility and maturity level of a child .
I mean people are campaigning to make drugs legal and yet here you are.
I don't agree with making it illegal. It should be legal. But, if it is gambling, then label it as gambling, better yet, tax it as gambling.
And yes, gambling should also be legal my poor American friends.
Personally I’m not arguing for legalization of drugs. I’m arguing that the strategy used to fight them for the last fifty years is not working. Time to try something else.
As far as the thread goes, I was just trying to demonstrate the hidden cost of addiction, all addiction.
I lost my first wife to heroine. Left me with two toddlers. A woman who could speak six languages went to AA with a drinking problem. There was a predator waiting for someone like her to come along. She left there a heroine addict. Now she is a toothless brain fried nut job, her brain is a raisin. About six months ago she tried to run the U.S border in her car. She was put in the phsyc ward for a couple days and released. Boy I could write a book about the family legal system and it’s bias towards the opposite sex but I digress We divorced twenty one years ago now and I only see her once or twice a year.
I mean people are campaigning to make drugs legal and yet here you are.
I don't agree with making it illegal. It should be legal. But, if it is gambling, then label it as gambling, better yet, tax it as gambling.
And yes, gambling should also be legal my poor American friends.
If governments or churches wanted to set up one armed bandits in government buildings and churches, they could,
What stops them from doing it is self respect and a sense of decorum.
That moral compass is missing from gaming where it's just "if the rubes buy it, we'll sell it." Anyone who gives a shit about quality gaming should get off their libertarian soap boxes and give their fucking heads a shake.
I am not a libertarian mate. I'm just not in favor of banning stuff. There is a big difference. Regulate them as gambling or game of chance or whatever products - that's what I said.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
I mean people are campaigning to make drugs legal and yet here you are.
I don't agree with making it illegal. It should be legal. But, if it is gambling, then label it as gambling, better yet, tax it as gambling.
And yes, gambling should also be legal my poor American friends.
If governments or churches wanted to set up one armed bandits in government buildings and churches, they could,
What stops them from doing it is self respect and a sense of decorum.
That moral compass is missing from gaming where it's just "if the rubes buy it, we'll sell it." Anyone who gives a shit about quality gaming should get off their libertarian soap boxes and give their fucking heads a shake.
I am not a libertarian mate. I'm just not in favor of banning stuff. There is a big difference. Regulate them as gambling or game of chance or whatever products - that's what I said.
Exactly like gambling with the enforcement to go with it all paid for by the proceeds derived from it.
User Pay doesn’t just describe the everyday working person.
I mean people are campaigning to make drugs legal and yet here you are.
I don't agree with making it illegal. It should be legal. But, if it is gambling, then label it as gambling, better yet, tax it as gambling.
And yes, gambling should also be legal my poor American friends.
Personally I’m not arguing for legalization of drugs. I’m arguing that the strategy used to fight them for the last fifty years is not working. Time to try something else.
As far as the thread goes, I was just trying to demonstrate the hidden cost of addiction, all addiction.
I lost my first wife to heroine. Left me with two toddlers. A woman who could speak six languages went to AA with a drinking problem. There was a predator waiting for someone like her to come along. She left there a heroine addict. Now she is a toothless brain fried nut job, her brain is a raisin. About six months ago she tried to run the U.S border in her car. She was put in the phsyc ward for a couple days and released. Boy I could write a book about the family legal system and it’s bias towards the opposite sex but I digress We divorced twenty one years ago now and I only see her once or twice a year.
Sorry to hear it. I am not one of those people who promotes drugs or thinks everyone should start using, no, not at all. I'm usually against how governments handle stuff, especially when they make things illegal.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
What I see on these forums is nobody really gives a fuck about addiction or people suffering from loot-boxes. You just don't like them personally, and you don't want them to see them in your games.
Apparently, people do like them, otherwise there would be no loot-boxes in the first place.
I yet to see a study that concludes why loot-boxes are bad and shall be removed from existence. What I see is just a lot of personal preferences. Which is fine. But get off your moral high horse lads, you are not bullshitting anyone.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
So either you have the money and make a conscious decision to spend it on your Hobby ..Nothing wrong with this
Or you dont have the money cant control yourself and impulse spend like low hanging fruit .. Something wrong with this .. Maybe focus on ones life more before you start pushing purchase buttons on a Game ..
And if your a parent you should have full control over any purchases your kid is making , if you dont , your doing it wrong ..
Games are no different than any other hobby , people not living within there means is always a problem , these individuals generally lack self control and disipline ..
The problem is when one's lack of control is due to addiction. That's not something one can self-control and discipline away quickly, easily or generally at all without some help and only when the person gets to the point they acknowledge the need for and are receptive to it.
You're right in that addictive spending in gaming is essentially the same as that of other hobbies, or anything else one can't control their spending on to the point where it becomes threatening or harmful to their well-being.
Parents would have perfect control, in the ideal world. We live in the real world where nothing is perfect so we must deal with what is rather than what could, should, or would be.
Of course , its an addiction , and if you are weak the result is bad choices.. So if you are knowing an willfully damaging yourself repeatedly Pushing Purchase.. on impulse , you got exactly what you deserve .. .. If you arent smart enough to know how to spend and /or handle your money , you dont deserve to have it .. Its not like a heroin addiction , these are very very different things .. The later is very powerful the former mentioned is just an excuse for the very stupid..
The rest of responsible people should not be punished because of some stupid few ..
Are we going to remove cars from the world because we have people who purchase cars they really cannot afford .. and get them repoed ... because of bad choices ..
Should we shut down all casinos also .. Because we have some weak stupid people who gamble away there homes .. Its not societites problem .. Its there problem ..
Most people are responsible enought to take X amount of money enjoy some games , enjoy a meal an go home .. WHy should those people be denied these things because of some ignorant weak others ..
"ohh i could not stop myself from buying the Flashy Rainbow Treasure Box .. ..."And did not buy groceries this week .. What am i to do "
LMFAO .. This person needs to really asses there life and step away from the PC "
But in either case .. thin the herd ..
Ive looked friends square in the eye with addictions to Drugs/Alcohol/Smoking etc .. and told them .. "Love ya Bro but i have zero sympathy when you die and you are going to" .. Then i buried them ..
I put 2 kids thru Ohio St and have 10 year old son now , None of the 3 ever made an online purchase as a minor with out my exact knowledge and or control of those finances .. Its just good parenting .. The internet is no place to let your kid wander around with your CC or Bank Information .. Its stupid at the very least ..
Look, more stupid. Only this time, its really hard to read your terrible grammar, shitty spelling and garbage use of conjunctions and fake ellipses. Too bad your parents didn't put you through Ohio State as well (or if they did, it was a complete waste of money - sorry)
Aside from all your insults , let me help you .. I retired at 53, I own 3 homes all paid off , my 10 year old son has a 7 digit trust fund .. My other 2 kids are very successful and comfortable in life.. How you doing?
What I see on these forums is nobody really gives a fuck about addiction or people suffering from loot-boxes. You just don't like them personally, and you don't want them to see them in your games.
Apparently, people do like them, otherwise there would be no loot-boxes in the first place.
I yet to see a study that concludes why loot-boxes are bad and shall be removed from existence. What I see is just a lot of personal preferences. Which is fine. But get off your moral high horse lads, you are not bullshitting anyone.
People with zero skill and more money than sense like them. I mean people that lose their shirt at poker, slots or craps all like the game enough to lose their life savings at those altars. The only difference is, the ones doing it for loot boxes do it so they can wave their hotdogs in everyone's face that they are the strongest out there.
I agree with one thing. Loot boxes don't have to necessarily be "banned". They do need to be regulated, and not even necessarily by the government, but by the rating agencies associated with games, like the ESRB. IMO they are as much at fault as these companies.
How the hell are you going to give a rating of E (everyone) or T (teen) to a game that has real money gambling in it?
The other question would be, is it worth it for games to market gacha games to 18+? Sure those are probably where the whales are too, which is essentially all these games care about, but the whales are essentially advertisements whether they are content creators or not.
And how many IP's want to start marketing as ONLY 18+? It kind of doesn't track if suddenly Marvel and Star Wars games are only 18+, for parents that actually DO pay attention to what their kids play, that could begin to be a major turn off to these IP's and the hobby in its entirety.
And as for studies I would recommend checking out some of the links in the article. There's a lot of good stuff there.
GAMEE is developing a game similar to axie for the Arc8 platform. The are doing their first NFT pack (loot box) drop tomorrow. Here are the odds-
Clearly listed. Verifiable by looking at contracts and transparent on the Polygon blockchain. What do you guys think of this? Ok? Not ok?
I know you're trying to swing this around to a blockchain convo, which I briefly brought up before, but that isn't really what this thread is about tbh.
Making what you roll for NFT's only makes it MORE like gambling because you can cash out what you get and it isn't against TOS like if I power up a roster in genshin and then sell the account. (That's actually what people used to do. Roll new account after new account until you got rare characters and sell the account).
So if anything this just makes it MORE of a reason why loot boxes need to be regulated.
GAMEE is developing a game similar to axie for the Arc8 platform. The are doing their first NFT pack (loot box) drop tomorrow. Here are the odds-
Clearly listed. Verifiable by looking at contracts and transparent on the Polygon blockchain. What do you guys think of this? Ok? Not ok?
I know you're trying to swing this around to a blockchain convo, which I briefly brought up before, but that isn't really what this thread is about tbh.
Making what you roll for NFT's only makes it MORE like gambling because you can cash out what you get and it isn't against TOS like if I power up a roster in genshin and then sell the account. (That's actually what people used to do. Roll new account after new account until you got rare characters and sell the account).
So if anything this just makes it MORE of a reason why loot boxes need to be regulated.
NFT packs and loot boxes are the same concept. I don't think your regulation comment applies here though. There is nothing hidden.
GAMEE is developing a game similar to axie for the Arc8 platform. The are doing their first NFT pack (loot box) drop tomorrow. Here are the odds-
Clearly listed. Verifiable by looking at contracts and transparent on the Polygon blockchain. What do you guys think of this? Ok? Not ok?
I know you're trying to swing this around to a blockchain convo, which I briefly brought up before, but that isn't really what this thread is about tbh.
Making what you roll for NFT's only makes it MORE like gambling because you can cash out what you get and it isn't against TOS like if I power up a roster in genshin and then sell the account. (That's actually what people used to do. Roll new account after new account until you got rare characters and sell the account).
So if anything this just makes it MORE of a reason why loot boxes need to be regulated.
NFT packs and loot boxes are the same concept. I don't think your regulation comment applies here though.
GAMEE is developing a game similar to axie for the Arc8 platform. The are doing their first NFT pack (loot box) drop tomorrow. Here are the odds-
Clearly listed. Verifiable by looking at contracts and transparent on the Polygon blockchain. What do you guys think of this? Ok? Not ok?
I know you're trying to swing this around to a blockchain convo, which I briefly brought up before, but that isn't really what this thread is about tbh.
Making what you roll for NFT's only makes it MORE like gambling because you can cash out what you get and it isn't against TOS like if I power up a roster in genshin and then sell the account. (That's actually what people used to do. Roll new account after new account until you got rare characters and sell the account).
So if anything this just makes it MORE of a reason why loot boxes need to be regulated.
NFT packs and loot boxes are the same concept. I don't think your regulation comment applies here though.
Comments
"Compulsive behavior is defined as performing an action persistently and repetitively without it necessarily leading to an actual reward or pleasure.
Loot boxes are just the latest way others make cash off of gamers behavior. Getting gamers to admit that they are basically the same as monkeys that will push buttons till they die for some rewards... ya, good luck with that.
The lengths people will go to to deceive themselves are literally endless...
First paste in the next sentence (it was a two sentence paragraph) and then put the statement in the context of loot boxes and video games.
If we're discussing life, I will reevaluate my statement.
Thank you
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Yes, really. My response to your first sentence was also in the context of loot box discussion, a context that extends beyond your post nevermind paragraph. The second sentence of the paragraph was irrelevant in that context so not responded to.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't agree with making it illegal. It should be legal. But, if it is gambling, then label it as gambling, better yet, tax it as gambling.
And yes, gambling should also be legal my poor American friends.
What stops them from doing it is self respect and a sense of decorum.
That moral compass is missing from gaming where it's just "if the rubes buy it, we'll sell it." Anyone who gives a shit about quality gaming should get off their libertarian soap boxes and give their fucking heads a shake.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
These major studios have hired psychologists to help target addiction and make these Gatcha mechanics as addictive as possible, so to get people to spend as much as possible.
Big corporations like ActiVision have been exposed with job listings and internal documents.
The worst is that this is happening more and more in games now, targeted at minors / children! These have no impuls control (yet) and are very vulnerable.
That is why this is utterly disgusting and needs to get Government oversight.
Kids and teenagers( aka minors ) are not allowed to gamble nor enter Casinos either. In many countries gambling is even illegal!
Yet these game studios are getting away with it, since its hidden inside games. Its basically just an ordinary loophole in current laws.
Luckily we now slowly see more and more countries to start looking into it and some have already implemented new/updated gambling laws to include games and in some countries loot boxes are now illegal / banned.
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
My argument is that it’s time for that to change.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
As far as the thread goes, I was just trying to demonstrate the hidden cost of addiction, all addiction.
I lost my first wife to heroine. Left me with two toddlers. A woman who could speak six languages went to AA with a drinking problem. There was a predator waiting for someone like her to come along. She left there a heroine addict. Now she is a toothless brain fried nut job, her brain is a raisin. About six months ago she tried to run the U.S border in her car. She was put in the phsyc ward for a couple days and released. Boy I could write a book about the family legal system and it’s bias towards the opposite sex but I digress
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
User Pay doesn’t just describe the everyday working person.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
What I see on these forums is nobody really gives a fuck about addiction or people suffering from loot-boxes. You just don't like them personally, and you don't want them to see them in your games.
Apparently, people do like them, otherwise there would be no loot-boxes in the first place.
I yet to see a study that concludes why loot-boxes are bad and shall be removed from existence. What I see is just a lot of personal preferences. Which is fine. But get off your moral high horse lads, you are not bullshitting anyone.
I agree with one thing. Loot boxes don't have to necessarily be "banned". They do need to be regulated, and not even necessarily by the government, but by the rating agencies associated with games, like the ESRB. IMO they are as much at fault as these companies.
How the hell are you going to give a rating of E (everyone) or T (teen) to a game that has real money gambling in it?
The other question would be, is it worth it for games to market gacha games to 18+? Sure those are probably where the whales are too, which is essentially all these games care about, but the whales are essentially advertisements whether they are content creators or not.
And how many IP's want to start marketing as ONLY 18+? It kind of doesn't track if suddenly Marvel and Star Wars games are only 18+, for parents that actually DO pay attention to what their kids play, that could begin to be a major turn off to these IP's and the hobby in its entirety.
And as for studies I would recommend checking out some of the links in the article. There's a lot of good stuff there.
Clearly listed. Verifiable by looking at contracts and transparent on the Polygon blockchain. What do you guys think of this? Ok? Not ok?
Making what you roll for NFT's only makes it MORE like gambling because you can cash out what you get and it isn't against TOS like if I power up a roster in genshin and then sell the account. (That's actually what people used to do. Roll new account after new account until you got rare characters and sell the account).
So if anything this just makes it MORE of a reason why loot boxes need to be regulated.