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Loot Boxes Are Predatory - It's Time Netmarble Gets Rid of Them | MMOWTF | MMORPG.com

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Comments

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 11,866



    agent575 said:

    what..? I love loot boxes - don't get rid of them



    Ive never been tempted to buy lootboxes, but maybe for some people it is fun? Different strokes for different folks.....



    Same, but I feel that we are a minority. And folks show little to no restraint are the ones who allow business to continue to flourish, why we continue to see them in pretty much every fucking game.
    The reason is simple, and why most of these games are mobile focused. It's because of power over skill. 

    In mobile games there is a limited amount of skill required to play. Most of these games even play themselves. Most of the skills and abilities auto track, at best you might get a limited number of dodges, but overall everything is automated with very little skill involved. 

    So success is determined by power levels in just about every situation.  Power levels are determined by RNG items, melded into each other 10 times over.

    All time gated. Extremely time gated. Like you could potentially play for weeks with very little progress to your character.

    So people pay. There was a story run several years back that said something like less than 5 percent of the entire population pays for more than 75% of the game. 

    Everything these games do is to try and force people to spend money. Even when someone gets a good roll from a loot box they put a pop up on the screen saying "X person has acquired 'RARE ITEM'" and often it's the same several people dropping thousands on hundreds of rolls to become the "strongest" which has nothing to do with capabilities, and everything to do with the money they spent. 

    And most of those people are streamers that gain followers based on their "expertise" at the game, based completely around an unattainable power level provided by cold hard cash and nothing else. People, kids that love Marvel and Star Wars and Dragon Ball and Harry Potter aspire to be like them, watch their videos, and try to emulate them, even to the point of spending what they can't. The whole model is a disease on gaming. 
    Scotbcbully



  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,523
    Society doesn't typically accommodate addiction, nor should it. Alcoholics do not prevent the sale of alcohol, tobacco related addictions don't prevent the sale of it, gambling addiction does not cause the closure of casinos or lotteries to be shut down, lock boxes to be banned, and so forth. Though addictions do have societal impact they are at their core tied to the individual so they must be addressed at that level rather than at the communal one.
    Society prevents minors from buying alcohol, tobacco, and gambling on casinos.

    There's also usually special regulation like permit that's needed if you want to run gambling or produce alcohol, mandatory health warnings, ban on focusing advertisement to minors, etc.

    Society regulates other addictive stuff, and loot boxes should get the same treatment.


    maskedweaselScotlaserit
     
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,490
    edited October 2021
    Netmarble may be the worse offender but all loot boxes, indeed all gambling in gaming must go. It is astonishing and disheartening to see how many posters think there is not a problem with loot boxes in gaming.

    Players have become accustomed to P2W and its worst iteration loot boxes and other forms of gambling. Most gaming teens won't even realise gaming does not have to be this way, they will think gambling in games is normal. Which is exactly how the companies like it.

    Gambling in gameplay goes beyond the issues Stephen mentioned as like any form of P2W it distorts gameplay. Players are not pursuing gameplay avenues to achieve goals they are shopping in a cash shop. They are not getting that sense of self achievement be it solo or as a group, which develops confidence and character. P2W instead gives the sense of achievement you have when you reach for another donut, gratifying only to their stomach which is in itself addictive even before you add loot boxes. Games can make players realise they can achieve against difficulty and MMORPG's can make them realise they can achieve as a team. What games with P2W and gambling are teaching kids now is how to be a good little consumer, what a great hobby gambling is and to achieve nothing in life.

    This is a strong article from Stephen who continues to stick his head above the parapet and do what I think a gaming journalist should do. Journalism should be about holding those in power (here the gaming companies) accountable for their actions. We have seen a deluge of articles about CP2077 not releasing well and launch glitches in NW are starting to pour in, but gambling in gaming just gets a pass. I ask you, what is more important? (Is part of the article missing, the end of the 6th paragraph finishes with "and"?)
    maskedweaselKyleran[Deleted User]
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    edited October 2021
    Vrika said:
    Society doesn't typically accommodate addiction, nor should it. Alcoholics do not prevent the sale of alcohol, tobacco related addictions don't prevent the sale of it, gambling addiction does not cause the closure of casinos or lotteries to be shut down, lock boxes to be banned, and so forth. Though addictions do have societal impact they are at their core tied to the individual so they must be addressed at that level rather than at the communal one.
    Society prevents minors from buying alcohol, tobacco, and gambling on casinos.

    There's also usually special regulation like permit that's needed if you want to run gambling or produce alcohol, mandatory health warnings, ban on focusing advertisement to minors, etc.

    Society regulates other addictive stuff, and loot boxes should get the same treatment.



    Society does not prevent anything , to the contrary its quite the opposite..

            Minors can and do get all of those things easily , most delivered directly to there door now .. And walk into casinos with Fake Ids ..

     The laws in place for these things are frivolous at best and not enforced ..

       Its still comes down to parenting .. "You made the kid , its your job to raise the kid "..

    Society in of itself does/did not fail when a kid is doing any of these activities the Parent did ..

      Society regulates NOTHING

     If you are depending on Society to regulate your kids , you have already failed as a parent..

     Its also worth noting that All these games require EULA agreement by an adult for online purchases .. Its very clear..
    Post edited by Scorchien on
    KyleranAsm0deus
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,490
    edited October 2021
    Scorchien said:
    Vrika said:
    Society doesn't typically accommodate addiction, nor should it. Alcoholics do not prevent the sale of alcohol, tobacco related addictions don't prevent the sale of it, gambling addiction does not cause the closure of casinos or lotteries to be shut down, lock boxes to be banned, and so forth. Though addictions do have societal impact they are at their core tied to the individual so they must be addressed at that level rather than at the communal one.
    Society prevents minors from buying alcohol, tobacco, and gambling on casinos.

    There's also usually special regulation like permit that's needed if you want to run gambling or produce alcohol, mandatory health warnings, ban on focusing advertisement to minors, etc.

    Society regulates other addictive stuff, and loot boxes should get the same treatment.



    Society does not prevent anything , to the contrary its quite the opposite..

            Minors can and do get all of those things easily , most delivered directly to there door now .. And walk into casinos with Fake Ids ..

     The laws in place for these things are frivolous at best and not enforced ..

       Its still comes down to parenting .. "You made the kid , its your job to raise the kid "..

    Society in of itself does/did not fail when a kid is doing any of these activities the Parent did ..

      Society regulates NOTHING

     Its also worth noting that All these games require EULA agreement by an adult for online purchases .. Its very clear..
    I don't see parents allowing kids to open mail sent through the post to them, nor do I see a 13 year old getting into a casino or betting shop with a fake idea. I think you are taking individualism verses statism too far. I would agree with you far more when it comes to adults, but a laissez-faire attitude to children is not on. Governments can and must intervene when private companies are encouraging children to gamble.
    Asm0deus
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    edited October 2021
    Scot said:
    Scorchien said:
    Vrika said:
    Society doesn't typically accommodate addiction, nor should it. Alcoholics do not prevent the sale of alcohol, tobacco related addictions don't prevent the sale of it, gambling addiction does not cause the closure of casinos or lotteries to be shut down, lock boxes to be banned, and so forth. Though addictions do have societal impact they are at their core tied to the individual so they must be addressed at that level rather than at the communal one.
    Society prevents minors from buying alcohol, tobacco, and gambling on casinos.

    There's also usually special regulation like permit that's needed if you want to run gambling or produce alcohol, mandatory health warnings, ban on focusing advertisement to minors, etc.

    Society regulates other addictive stuff, and loot boxes should get the same treatment.



    Society does not prevent anything , to the contrary its quite the opposite..

            Minors can and do get all of those things easily , most delivered directly to there door now .. And walk into casinos with Fake Ids ..

     The laws in place for these things are frivolous at best and not enforced ..

       Its still comes down to parenting .. "You made the kid , its your job to raise the kid "..

    Society in of itself does/did not fail when a kid is doing any of these activities the Parent did ..

      Society regulates NOTHING

     Its also worth noting that All these games require EULA agreement by an adult for online purchases .. Its very clear..
    I don't see parents allowing kids to open mail sent through the post to them, nor do I see a 13 year old getting into a casino or betting shop with a fake idea. I think you are taking individualism verses statism too far. I would agree with you far more when it comes to adults, but a laissez-faire attitude to children is not on. Governments can and must intervene when private companies are encouraging children to gamble.
    You are certainly on the wrong side of history  there are much more pressing matters any government should be focused on..

    Loot boxes being the least of them ..

     That is a parenting/ Adult issue /end..

    You dont see parents letting kids open mail .. lol it happens everyday every state every county .. Minors are getting stuff delivered to the there homes .. And yes it starts with bad parenting .. The govetmentis right now trying to get more  control of kids , the push back is strong .. But I digress this discussion is now drifting into bannable topics as ya know snowflakes.. 

     Bottom line , good parents know exactly what there kids have acess to on the internet,  and check this stuff daily . Me or wife do this each day .. 

      
    Post edited by Scorchien on
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,351
    edited October 2021
    Loot boxes without legislative intervention to make them display all the percentages and perhaps a few more regulations is not ideal. I don't think they are going anywhere though. Netherlands and Belgium just sealed their own graves. I doubt other countries will follow suit.

    When I find a game is reliant on making a player buy them to increase the chances of making better weapons or armour I eschew the game. I think for me personally this is the only option I have. I cannot play games that rely on a small percentage of luck to find what I need.

    If more and more games follow this type of method to enhance gear I guess I will buy less games in the future or simply settle for less. I find that being third rate not terribly unbearable at end game if I can still find some fun. That is a far sight better than wasting my money opening loot boxes hoping for a miracle.
    Kyleran

  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,523
    Scorchien said:
    Scot said:
    Scorchien said:
    Vrika said:
    Society doesn't typically accommodate addiction, nor should it. Alcoholics do not prevent the sale of alcohol, tobacco related addictions don't prevent the sale of it, gambling addiction does not cause the closure of casinos or lotteries to be shut down, lock boxes to be banned, and so forth. Though addictions do have societal impact they are at their core tied to the individual so they must be addressed at that level rather than at the communal one.
    Society prevents minors from buying alcohol, tobacco, and gambling on casinos.

    There's also usually special regulation like permit that's needed if you want to run gambling or produce alcohol, mandatory health warnings, ban on focusing advertisement to minors, etc.

    Society regulates other addictive stuff, and loot boxes should get the same treatment.



    Society does not prevent anything , to the contrary its quite the opposite..

            Minors can and do get all of those things easily , most delivered directly to there door now .. And walk into casinos with Fake Ids ..

     The laws in place for these things are frivolous at best and not enforced ..

       Its still comes down to parenting .. "You made the kid , its your job to raise the kid "..

    Society in of itself does/did not fail when a kid is doing any of these activities the Parent did ..

      Society regulates NOTHING

     Its also worth noting that All these games require EULA agreement by an adult for online purchases .. Its very clear..
    I don't see parents allowing kids to open mail sent through the post to them, nor do I see a 13 year old getting into a casino or betting shop with a fake idea. I think you are taking individualism verses statism too far. I would agree with you far more when it comes to adults, but a laissez-faire attitude to children is not on. Governments can and must intervene when private companies are encouraging children to gamble.
    You are certainly on the wrong side of history  there are much more pressing matters any government should be focused on..

    Loot boxes being the least of them ..

     That is a parenting/ Adult issue /end..

    You dont see parents letting kids open mail .. lol it happens everyday every state every county .. Minors are getting stuff delivered to the there homes .. And yes it starts with bad parenting .. The govetmentis right now trying to get more  control of kids , the push back is strong .. But I digress this discussion is now drifting into bannable topics as ya know snowflakes.. 

     Bottom line , good parents know exactly what there kids have acess to on 4th br internet,  and check this stuff daily . Me or wife do this each day .. 
    Bottom line is that if you check every day what your kid has accessed on the internet until he turns 18 then you're paranoid.

    Also eventually missing stuff. If nothing else, a cheap 4G capable tablet at local electronic store is about €150 and a prepaid net connection for it is 6€ extra, and then the child will have a porn-looking device you know nothing about. Unless you're also paranoid enough to regularly search through his stuff.
     
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    edited October 2021
    Vrika said:
    Scorchien said:
    Scot said:
    Scorchien said:
    Vrika said:
    Society doesn't typically accommodate addiction, nor should it. Alcoholics do not prevent the sale of alcohol, tobacco related addictions don't prevent the sale of it, gambling addiction does not cause the closure of casinos or lotteries to be shut down, lock boxes to be banned, and so forth. Though addictions do have societal impact they are at their core tied to the individual so they must be addressed at that level rather than at the communal one.
    Society prevents minors from buying alcohol, tobacco, and gambling on casinos.

    There's also usually special regulation like permit that's needed if you want to run gambling or produce alcohol, mandatory health warnings, ban on focusing advertisement to minors, etc.

    Society regulates other addictive stuff, and loot boxes should get the same treatment.



    Society does not prevent anything , to the contrary its quite the opposite..

            Minors can and do get all of those things easily , most delivered directly to there door now .. And walk into casinos with Fake Ids ..

     The laws in place for these things are frivolous at best and not enforced ..

       Its still comes down to parenting .. "You made the kid , its your job to raise the kid "..

    Society in of itself does/did not fail when a kid is doing any of these activities the Parent did ..

      Society regulates NOTHING

     Its also worth noting that All these games require EULA agreement by an adult for online purchases .. Its very clear..
    I don't see parents allowing kids to open mail sent through the post to them, nor do I see a 13 year old getting into a casino or betting shop with a fake idea. I think you are taking individualism verses statism too far. I would agree with you far more when it comes to adults, but a laissez-faire attitude to children is not on. Governments can and must intervene when private companies are encouraging children to gamble.
    You are certainly on the wrong side of history  there are much more pressing matters any government should be focused on..

    Loot boxes being the least of them ..

     That is a parenting/ Adult issue /end..

    You dont see parents letting kids open mail .. lol it happens everyday every state every county .. Minors are getting stuff delivered to the there homes .. And yes it starts with bad parenting .. The govetmentis right now trying to get more  control of kids , the push back is strong .. But I digress this discussion is now drifting into bannable topics as ya know snowflakes.. 

     Bottom line , good parents know exactly what there kids have acess to on 4th br internet,  and check this stuff daily . Me or wife do this each day .. 
    Bottom line is that if you check every day what your kid has accessed on the internet until he turns 18 then you're paranoid.

    Also eventually missing stuff. If nothing else, a cheap 4G capable tablet at local electronic store is about €150 and a prepaid net connection for it is 6€ extra, and then the child will have a porn-looking device you know nothing about. Unless you're also paranoid enough to regularly search through his stuff.

    your completly wrong again , but that has been a recurring theme thruout this discussion ..

      But you keep throwing them up ill keep knocking them out of the park ..

      1. son has a Ipad and PC , both have all Adult content blocked .. Which is very easy to do ..2. Lol paranoid .. Nope not one bit .. if you think its paranoid to check on your kids activities and interactions .. you are doing something wrong .. It literally takes 10 minutes Tops.. Some days hes not even on them , hes outside playing sports .. Nothing to check .. And mostly when checking its to check other kids and how they talk etc.. and really thats all it should be at this point(at 10) ... 

      3. My kids, all 3 have never tried to hide anything from me to date ...But again .. This starts with good parenting .. They always come to us to talk about things ..

      Matter a fact me and Jr just had breakfast at the diner , he wanted to talk about Mobile phones and social media .. He does not want anything to do with Social media , and he will not have a phone till hes 18( thats my decision) None of my kids did ..He already recognizes how some of his friends at school are upset or overly concerend with things like Instagram Tik tok etc.. He wants nothing to do with it , and neither me or my wife have any accts on any of these things .. this site would be the closest to a social media i have ..

      Having open dialogue with your kids teaching and educating them is key in all these issues ..

      Its really very easy , ironically Kids are the best game going .. and everyday they are full of surprises as they open up there day , each day bringing , new discoveries , Happiness ,excitement ,or even being bummed out ..And each day is a gamble with our kids letting them grow , do more things try more things expanding there ever growing horizons..

      Much like when someone opens a loot box lol.. ..

            Dam it ... kids are like addictive loot boxes now .. Maybe we should just .. get rid of them ?


     Now i have to go outside and practice with Jr kicking a Football off a tee .. Hes really doing well at it .. He has surprised himself at how good he is getting at it ..
    KidRisk
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,226
    Vrika said:
    Scorchien said:
    Scot said:
    Scorchien said:
    Vrika said:
    Society doesn't typically accommodate addiction, nor should it. Alcoholics do not prevent the sale of alcohol, tobacco related addictions don't prevent the sale of it, gambling addiction does not cause the closure of casinos or lotteries to be shut down, lock boxes to be banned, and so forth. Though addictions do have societal impact they are at their core tied to the individual so they must be addressed at that level rather than at the communal one.
    Society prevents minors from buying alcohol, tobacco, and gambling on casinos.

    There's also usually special regulation like permit that's needed if you want to run gambling or produce alcohol, mandatory health warnings, ban on focusing advertisement to minors, etc.

    Society regulates other addictive stuff, and loot boxes should get the same treatment.



    Society does not prevent anything , to the contrary its quite the opposite..

            Minors can and do get all of those things easily , most delivered directly to there door now .. And walk into casinos with Fake Ids ..

     The laws in place for these things are frivolous at best and not enforced ..

       Its still comes down to parenting .. "You made the kid , its your job to raise the kid "..

    Society in of itself does/did not fail when a kid is doing any of these activities the Parent did ..

      Society regulates NOTHING

     Its also worth noting that All these games require EULA agreement by an adult for online purchases .. Its very clear..
    I don't see parents allowing kids to open mail sent through the post to them, nor do I see a 13 year old getting into a casino or betting shop with a fake idea. I think you are taking individualism verses statism too far. I would agree with you far more when it comes to adults, but a laissez-faire attitude to children is not on. Governments can and must intervene when private companies are encouraging children to gamble.
    You are certainly on the wrong side of history  there are much more pressing matters any government should be focused on..

    Loot boxes being the least of them ..

     That is a parenting/ Adult issue /end..

    You dont see parents letting kids open mail .. lol it happens everyday every state every county .. Minors are getting stuff delivered to the there homes .. And yes it starts with bad parenting .. The govetmentis right now trying to get more  control of kids , the push back is strong .. But I digress this discussion is now drifting into bannable topics as ya know snowflakes.. 

     Bottom line , good parents know exactly what there kids have acess to on 4th br internet,  and check this stuff daily . Me or wife do this each day .. 
    Bottom line is that if you check every day what your kid has accessed on the internet until he turns 18 then you're paranoid.

    Also eventually missing stuff. If nothing else, a cheap 4G capable tablet at local electronic store is about €150 and a prepaid net connection for it is 6€ extra, and then the child will have a porn-looking device you know nothing about. Unless you're also paranoid enough to regularly search through his stuff.
    Wait, wut? I always searched through my children's stuff, especially after finding contraband items in their belongings.

    Still, no matter how hard you try they find ways around it, took me years to learn where to search as they kept getting better at hiding.

    But unless you lock them in the house until 18 they often do things at their friends house or elsewhere that you have little control.

    So they're going to get into things they shouldn't, the trick is to educate them enough to not be totally sucked into the "sinful" elements society throws at them and make the right decision when the time comes.

    Back to the topic, goals are good but loot boxes are here to stay as long as there are people willing to pay for them, or until government decides they are onerous enough to ban them, which I don't see really happening.

    A bigger concern / scourge on the horizon is the crypto gaming / NFT trend, that's going to change the face of gaming in many ways, most of them unpleasant, at least for me anyways.




    Scorchien

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    But, but those poor studios need to make a profit and any way they do it is just fine /s

    Loot boxes are dumb shit for even dumber people defended by the morally bankrupt.

    Nobody here is defending it ..

    ORLY?

    Scorchien said:


    So either you have the money and make a conscious decision to spend it on your Hobby ..Nothing wrong with this

    Nothing wrong with this


    Hmm...

    Lol thats not defending , Thats a simple basic Fact...

        So simply do you agree with ..


        You have the money to spend on something you enjoy .. And there is Nothing wrong with that ..

                Do you agree


                             or


        You dont have the money and foolishly spend it any way .. There is something wrong with this ..


      So answer .. do you agree .. with the 2 statements ..

       Go ahead answer ...  Now is your answer defending the first action .. Or is it simple common sense ..

      Of course you agree .. .. and guess what you are not defending the action ..

       
    I’ll answer that for you.

    You have the right to spend your money and make your money anyway you like. Until you start effecting me and my fellow tax payers.

    I certainly don’t want to be subsidizing people and feeding their children over fucking video games. Drugs are bad enough.

    Take my tax dollars and spend 10x the amount on fixing education so people aren’t so fucking stupid.

     Imho

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,813
    IDK if they are "preditory", a bit of sensationalism here.

    They are 100% gambling imho.

    Now should gambling exist in games marketed to under 18 year olds? I don't think so.

    Is it ok for gambling to exist in games that are not marketed to under 18s. Yes without question.




    maskedweasel
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    laserit said:
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    But, but those poor studios need to make a profit and any way they do it is just fine /s

    Loot boxes are dumb shit for even dumber people defended by the morally bankrupt.

    Nobody here is defending it ..

    ORLY?

    Scorchien said:


    So either you have the money and make a conscious decision to spend it on your Hobby ..Nothing wrong with this

    Nothing wrong with this


    Hmm...

    Lol thats not defending , Thats a simple basic Fact...

        So simply do you agree with ..


        You have the money to spend on something you enjoy .. And there is Nothing wrong with that ..

                Do you agree


                             or


        You dont have the money and foolishly spend it any way .. There is something wrong with this ..


      So answer .. do you agree .. with the 2 statements ..

       Go ahead answer ...  Now is your answer defending the first action .. Or is it simple common sense ..

      Of course you agree .. .. and guess what you are not defending the action ..

       
    I’ll answer that for you.

    You have the right to spend your money and make your money anyway you like. Until you start effecting me and my fellow tax payers.

    I certainly don’t want to be subsidizing people and feeding their children over fucking video games. Drugs are bad enough.

    Take my tax dollars and spend 10x the amount on fixing education so people aren’t so fucking stupid.

     Imho

    Semantics at best , if someone is weak and stupid enough to not be able to care for there children caused by there video game spending.. guess what , we would end subsidizing for that anyway .. one way or another .. Its just a stupid foolish irresposible parent that should never been able to procreate..

      I do agree with your last statement tho , Education has taken several wrong turns , and needs to be fixed..

     Im actually very much against handing out(Tax) money in some of these social programs further enabling bad behavior..  But i digress again
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    kitarad said:
    Loot boxes without legislative intervention to make them display all the percentages and perhaps a few more regulations is not ideal. I don't think they are going anywhere though. Netherlands and Belgium just sealed their own graves. I doubt other countries will follow suit.

    When I find a game is reliant on making a player buy them to increase the chances of making better weapons or armour I eschew the game. I think for me personally this is the only option I have. I cannot play games that rely on a small percentage of luck to find what I need.

    If more and more games follow this type of method to enhance gear I guess I will buy less games in the future or simply settle for less. I find that being third rate not terribly unbearable at end game if I can still find some fun. That is a far sight better than wasting my money opening loot boxes hoping for a miracle.
    There is a monetary cost and pressure to a country’s social system (if there is no social system then replace the word monetary with criminal)

    These big huge multinationals are like vacuum cleaners sucking the wealth out of smaller countries like mine. Leaving small business owners like myself and our tax paying employees left holding the bag.

    The industry must pay for the damage that they do.  I assure you, they have the research. They know what they are doing is harmful.

    How many Tobacco industries and Perdue Pharma’s does it have to take?

    People who usually scream against socialism, usually profit in some way from society subsidizing their personal wealth creation mechanism.

    Kind of hypocritical don’t ya think ;)

     Imho


    Iselin

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 2,415
    To me, loot boxes are no worse than a lot of advertising. Of course the advertisers try to manipulate you into buying. If they show their product next to a pile of dog poop, and then show it next to a pretty girl, guess what? The pretty girl ad gets more sales.

    This is a bit more insidious, since gambling can actually be addictive to some people, and loot boxes are gambling. And they know just what buttons to push to arouse the addiction.

    For that reason, I would ban loot boxes for real cash; let people gamble using the game's internal currency. The game companies won't do that because they want the cash, naturally.

    Personally, I am immune. I live near a casino, and  a horse track. I never gamble. Loot boxes that contain cosmetics are of no interest to me, and any game that puts real P2W items in loot boxes is a game I won't play.

    ------------
    2022: 45 years on the Net.


  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,020
    Slow news week I gather?

    Guess we needed to rehash this subject yet again to repeat yet again all the same arguments both for and against banning lootboxes to drum up activity in the forums?

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • SKlTZOSKlTZO Member UncommonPosts: 14
    I just miss the good old days to be honest. No loot boxes, no cash shop cosmetics or “convenience” purchases, no battlepasses etc. I really miss the days when that badass armor set or weapon skin was earned by actually playing the game.

    There are actually many titles I would have enjoyed spending some time on if it wasn’t for how they were monetized. Sadly as long as people keep spending insane amounts of money on these things we will not see any positive changes. When actual game design decisions are influenced by monetization then it’s not a game for me. 
    Iselindragonlee66maskedweasellaseritAsm0deusScot
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,813
    laserit said:
    kitarad said:
    Loot boxes without legislative intervention to make them display all the percentages and perhaps a few more regulations is not ideal. I don't think they are going anywhere though. Netherlands and Belgium just sealed their own graves. I doubt other countries will follow suit.

    When I find a game is reliant on making a player buy them to increase the chances of making better weapons or armour I eschew the game. I think for me personally this is the only option I have. I cannot play games that rely on a small percentage of luck to find what I need.

    If more and more games follow this type of method to enhance gear I guess I will buy less games in the future or simply settle for less. I find that being third rate not terribly unbearable at end game if I can still find some fun. That is a far sight better than wasting my money opening loot boxes hoping for a miracle.
    There is a monetary cost and pressure to a country’s social system (if there is no social system then replace the word monetary with criminal)

    These big huge multinationals are like vacuum cleaners sucking the wealth out of smaller countries like mine. Leaving small business owners like myself and our tax paying employees left holding the bag.

    The industry must pay for the damage that they do.  I assure you, they have the research. They know what they are doing is harmful.

    How many Tobacco industries and Perdue Pharma’s does it have to take?

    People who usually scream against socialism, usually profit in some way from society subsidizing their personal wealth creation mechanism.

    Kind of hypocritical don’t ya think ;)

     Imho


    Meanwhile you're diamond handing the canadian dollar. You are holding the bag because you choose to.
    laserit
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,523
    SKlTZO said:
    I just miss the good old days to be honest. No loot boxes, no cash shop cosmetics or “convenience” purchases, no battlepasses etc. I really miss the days when that badass armor set or weapon skin was earned by actually playing the game.
    Same.

    And I really miss being able to look at the game and knowing how much it would cost me.
     
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Scorchien said:
    laserit said:
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    But, but those poor studios need to make a profit and any way they do it is just fine /s

    Loot boxes are dumb shit for even dumber people defended by the morally bankrupt.

    Nobody here is defending it ..

    ORLY?

    Scorchien said:


    So either you have the money and make a conscious decision to spend it on your Hobby ..Nothing wrong with this

    Nothing wrong with this


    Hmm...

    Lol thats not defending , Thats a simple basic Fact...

        So simply do you agree with ..


        You have the money to spend on something you enjoy .. And there is Nothing wrong with that ..

                Do you agree


                             or


        You dont have the money and foolishly spend it any way .. There is something wrong with this ..


      So answer .. do you agree .. with the 2 statements ..

       Go ahead answer ...  Now is your answer defending the first action .. Or is it simple common sense ..

      Of course you agree .. .. and guess what you are not defending the action ..

       
    I’ll answer that for you.

    You have the right to spend your money and make your money anyway you like. Until you start effecting me and my fellow tax payers.

    I certainly don’t want to be subsidizing people and feeding their children over fucking video games. Drugs are bad enough.

    Take my tax dollars and spend 10x the amount on fixing education so people aren’t so fucking stupid.

     Imho

    Semantics at best , if someone is weak and stupid enough to not be able to care for there children caused by there video game spending.. guess what , we would end subsidizing for that anyway .. one way or another .. Its just a stupid foolish irresposible parent that should never been able to procreate..

      I do agree with your last statement tho , Education has taken several wrong turns , and needs to be fixed..

     Im actually very much against handing out(Tax) money in some of these social programs further enabling bad behavior..  But i digress again
    Tell that to the church, it's another kicking of a dead horse. Its something that will never ever be agreed upon.

    The war on drugs has got you nothing but private for profit prisons. The number of drug addicts for us all has grown at an alarming rate.

    The amount of money it costs you and I from taxes to insurance to property crime to the loss of loved ones by crime to support addictions is immeasurable. The money taken out of the economy, out of yours and my pocket is astronomical.

    Time for some damage Reduction Imho

    My feelings are that a lot of the powers that be, don't want people too highly educated. The better educated you are the more tougher questions you ask.

    Imho

     
    bcbullyScorchien

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    kitarad said:
    Loot boxes without legislative intervention to make them display all the percentages and perhaps a few more regulations is not ideal. I don't think they are going anywhere though. Netherlands and Belgium just sealed their own graves. I doubt other countries will follow suit.

    When I find a game is reliant on making a player buy them to increase the chances of making better weapons or armour I eschew the game. I think for me personally this is the only option I have. I cannot play games that rely on a small percentage of luck to find what I need.

    If more and more games follow this type of method to enhance gear I guess I will buy less games in the future or simply settle for less. I find that being third rate not terribly unbearable at end game if I can still find some fun. That is a far sight better than wasting my money opening loot boxes hoping for a miracle.
    There is a monetary cost and pressure to a country’s social system (if there is no social system then replace the word monetary with criminal)

    These big huge multinationals are like vacuum cleaners sucking the wealth out of smaller countries like mine. Leaving small business owners like myself and our tax paying employees left holding the bag.

    The industry must pay for the damage that they do.  I assure you, they have the research. They know what they are doing is harmful.

    How many Tobacco industries and Perdue Pharma’s does it have to take?

    People who usually scream against socialism, usually profit in some way from society subsidizing their personal wealth creation mechanism.

    Kind of hypocritical don’t ya think ;)

     Imho


    Meanwhile you're diamond handing the canadian dollar. You are holding the bag because you choose to.
    I live in one of the most gorgeous, freedom loving places in the world. Have a look at the real estate prices ;)

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 3,024
    2021 ... I stopped playing RMT/loot box games over 7 years ago, and even then it was the rare exception.

    You are letting them prey on you because you choose to be a victim.

    STOP GIVING THEM MONEY. STOP SUPPORTING THEM.

    2021 and people still act like throwing money away is mandatory ... then turn around and complain constantly about it.
    laseritbcbully

    You stay sassy!

  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,556
    edited October 2021
    Well Netmarble is one of the worst offenders because of the value of what they make you gamble for... was the same in Future Fight with their cards. Netmarble does not provide good value/return for stuff you spend money on which is pretty much common knowledge in mobile gaming world...

    The VALUE isn't the same in every game for what's being gambled on... whales and kraken will whale or kraken even if the options in form of loot boxes are not available. Remember those people in Marvel Heroes who gifted people things on the forums just so they could be known as the people who gave people thousands of dollars worth of stuff? People will always want to be top dawg especially in games and games are perfect for that because they are the biggest gathering of rich nerds.

    The value of a $10 gamble in a game like Summoners War if you get a ld5 you will possibly use that win item daily in various modes for thousands of hours doing thousands of runs... Is that $10 gamble worth it then? The value for what you gamble on to 'win' is not universally the same so IMO it's wrong to lump them all together just because Netmarble likes to pp in the kool-aid. The pattern of how different games handle wins is almost identical to how casinos do it. I've personally got back to back jackpot wins for stuff some games gave me for FREE then used those items daily for years. The trick with mobile spending is recognizing what the best value for your money is. Each game has certain 'deals' they put out regularly that have better win ratios and value where the risk isn't as high.

    The only reason Netmarble is being called out now is because Darth Micro foolishly dropped thousands of dollars in ONE sitting/session trying to pay to win and didn't... here...



    For those who don't know who he is he's a kraken who drops thousands on games and most of the time has terrible luck. He dropped thousands on Raid and lost constantly. At this point I think many of these streamers are so addicted to the income revenue they get from youtube that they're willing to 'ignore' obvious common sense just to get payola from their views. Many Marvel Strike Force streamers are similar just spewing out nonsense info for views/subs...
    maskedweasellaseritScot
  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,227
    Seeing how many game publishers have hired people from the casino engagement market to raise their "engagement"...

    Lootboxes and similar use the exact same hooks used by casinos.. And last i checked those are age gated...

    Heck it is even worse with lootboxes... Because you will NEVER win any money back... Just a never ending spending on the next FOMO hook.

    Now personally i enjoy them, much like i enjoy the occasional scratch card or raffle. But i am not the one who should set the bar, we need to look at this from the angle of the most exposed. The ones at the most risk.

    We are building a generation who has gambling fed to them from birth. I am no behavioral physiologist but i have a slight feeling it will not end well.
    laseritmaskedweaselTiamatRoar

    This have been a good conversation

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 3,287
    Vrika said:
    Society doesn't typically accommodate addiction, nor should it. Alcoholics do not prevent the sale of alcohol, tobacco related addictions don't prevent the sale of it, gambling addiction does not cause the closure of casinos or lotteries to be shut down, lock boxes to be banned, and so forth. Though addictions do have societal impact they are at their core tied to the individual so they must be addressed at that level rather than at the communal one.
    Society prevents minors from buying alcohol, tobacco, and gambling on casinos.

    There's also usually special regulation like permit that's needed if you want to run gambling or produce alcohol, mandatory health warnings, ban on focusing advertisement to minors, etc.

    Society regulates other addictive stuff, and loot boxes should get the same treatment.


    What of that accommodates addiction?

    Regulations related to minors are due to their age. Regulations related to legal addictive products do not constrain access of the addicted to them. Mandatory health warnings do not come with mandatory consideration or compliance.

    Even the constraint of illegal addictive products is due solely to their illegality rather than an accommodation of addiction.
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