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Loot Boxes Are Predatory - It's Time Netmarble Gets Rid of Them | MMOWTF | MMORPG.com

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 11,024
edited October 2021 in Videos Discussion

imageLoot Boxes Are Predatory - It's Time Netmarble Gets Rid of Them | MMOWTF | MMORPG.com

For a long time there has been a "will they, won't they" between governments and game companies that employ the, nearly universally hated gacha loot box system. In our first episode of MMOWTF Steven takes a look at some of these loot box games, and speaks with clinical psychologist Dr. Anthony Bean to determine how predatory these mechanics really are.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Blah blah blah Bullshit ..

    So either you have the money and make a conscious decision to spend it on your Hobby ..Nothing wrong with this

    Or you dont have the money cant control yourself and impulse spend like low hanging fruit .. Something wrong with this .. Maybe focus on ones life more before you start pushing purchase buttons on a Game ..

    And if your a parent you should have full control over any purchases your kid is making , if you dont , your doing it wrong ..

    Games are no different than any other hobby , people not living within there means is always a problem , these individuals generally lack self control and disipline ..



    maskedweaselKyleranZenislavWhiteLanternIselindoomexbcbullyhonken_moon
  • ConfonduConfondu Member UncommonPosts: 24

    Well if you want your FTP you ought to get off your high horse.


    Scorchien said:

    Blah blah blah Bullshit ..



    So either you have the money and make a conscious decision to spend it on your Hobby ..Nothing wrong with this



    Or you dont have the money cant control yourself and impulse spend like low hanging fruit .. Something wrong with this .. Maybe focus on ones life more before you start pushing purchase buttons on a Game ..



    And if your a parent you should have full control over any purchases your kid is making , if you dont , your doing it wrong ..



    Games are no different than any other hobby , people not living within there means is always a problem , these individuals generally lack self control and disipline ..










    Exactly right Scorchien
    maskedweaselKyleranScorchien
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 11,866
    Scorchien said:
    Blah blah blah Bullshit ..

    So either you have the money and make a conscious decision to spend it on your Hobby ..Nothing wrong with this

    Or you dont have the money cant control yourself and impulse spend like low hanging fruit .. Something wrong with this .. Maybe focus on ones life more before you start pushing purchase buttons on a Game ..

    And if your a parent you should have full control over any purchases your kid is making , if you dont , your doing it wrong ..

    Games are no different than any other hobby , people not living within there means is always a problem , these individuals generally lack self control and disipline ..



    My parents never knew what games they bought for me. They weren't gamers. It doesn't help either that most of these games are on mobile, where you have play store or apple store credits that can be used to buy everything. 

    It's like saying gambling is a hobby. Or giving a nod to 'recreational drug use'. 

    Don't know if you play these games or not, but I do play mobile games, and I've spent on them, I do understand how easy it is to get dragged into spending money you probably shouldn't spend. 

    I've never spent anything I can't afford, but I have easily had remorse on spending money because half the time when I do spend I don't get anything that I want. 

    You literally have a better shot at throwing your money into crypto, or a shady crypto game than you do lootboxes.
    Kyleranlaseritalin1209Roin



  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Scorchien said:
    Blah blah blah Bullshit ..

    So either you have the money and make a conscious decision to spend it on your Hobby ..Nothing wrong with this

    Or you dont have the money cant control yourself and impulse spend like low hanging fruit .. Something wrong with this .. Maybe focus on ones life more before you start pushing purchase buttons on a Game ..

    And if your a parent you should have full control over any purchases your kid is making , if you dont , your doing it wrong ..

    Games are no different than any other hobby , people not living within there means is always a problem , these individuals generally lack self control and disipline ..



    My parents never knew what games they bought for me. They weren't gamers. It doesn't help either that most of these games are on mobile, where you have play store or apple store credits that can be used to buy everything. 

    It's like saying gambling is a hobby. Or giving a nod to 'recreational drug use'. 

    Don't know if you play these games or not, but I do play mobile games, and I've spent on them, I do understand how easy it is to get dragged into spending money you probably shouldn't spend. 

    I've never spent anything I can't afford, but I have easily had remorse on spending money because half the time when I do spend I don't get anything that I want. 

    You literally have a better shot at throwing your money into crypto, or a shady crypto game than you do lootboxes.

    Im not going to respond , because you will be offended and it wont end well ..
    maskedweaselKyleran
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,523
    Scorchien said:
    And if your a parent you should have full control over any purchases your kid is making , if you dont , your doing it wrong ..
    If you're a parent you'll control your child's purchases for the first years of her life.

    Then the control starts slipping because you're doing it right and letting her earn some pocket money through chores and start giving her some freedom.
    maskedweasel
     
  • agent575agent575 Member UncommonPosts: 10
    what..? I love loot boxes - don't get rid of them
    maskedweaselTillerKyleranTheocritusRoinSandmanjw
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,745
    So you think that Netmarble should get rid of loot boxes but it's fine if other companies keep using them?
    ZenislavKyleran
  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 10,328
    Someone get this guy a clip on (lavalier) microphone. Beginning sounded like he talking into an empty ravioli can.
    maskedweasel
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • MykellMykell Member UncommonPosts: 780
    Anyone who grew up with the start of actual gaming knows this "FTP revolution" is more akin to online casino games wrapped in a cloak of minimalistic gaming systems.

    Mobile gaming has taken it to another level because of the reach of these new gaming platforms and developers/investors discovering what a pot of gold it really is.

    Companies are getting better at manipulating customers to purchase using all the real time data/metrics at there disposal to create more addictive games.

    Its no different that running around with a mobile pokie machine in your pocket that knows the best time of day to flag a discount/offer to maximize your spending potential.
    maskedweasellaserit
  • StevenWeberStevenWeber MMORPG.COM Staff UncommonPosts: 81
    Quizzical said:
    So you think that Netmarble should get rid of loot boxes but it's fine if other companies keep using them?
    I know it sounds like I'm "picking on" Netmarble from the title but I do call out several other developers, including Ubisoft and Capcom to name a few. 

    Tiller said:
    Someone get this guy a clip on (lavalier) microphone. Beginning sounded like he talking into an empty ravioli can.
    Yes, the sound issue was something I attempted to fix in post. I recently purchased a new PC and my default microphone on the recording app was set to the webcam mic instead of the condenser mic. It shouldn't happen again, I just didn't have enough time on this video to re-record my audio. 
    maskedweasel
  • OldKingLogOldKingLog Member RarePosts: 441
    Scorchien said:
    Blah blah blah Bullshit ..

    So either you have the money and make a conscious decision to spend it on your Hobby ..Nothing wrong with this

    Or you dont have the money cant control yourself and impulse spend like low hanging fruit .. Something wrong with this .. Maybe focus on ones life more before you start pushing purchase buttons on a Game ..

    And if your a parent you should have full control over any purchases your kid is making , if you dont , your doing it wrong ..

    Games are no different than any other hobby , people not living within there means is always a problem , these individuals generally lack self control and disipline ..




    An interesting point of view from a poster whom I recall a hootin and a hollerin many times on these forums, calling out what he considers to be "Crowdfunding Scam Games". I'm a bit confused by the disparity how you can be so hell bent on exposing one type of predatory compulsive system, yet be so laissez-faire about another.

    maskedweaselSarla
  • DattelisDattelis Member RarePosts: 855
    edited October 2021
    All I say is good luck with that. The only way lootboxes/gacha/other heavy rng systems will go away is through legislation like in I believe Belgium. Even agreeing to list the % isn't enough for me tbh.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,773
    But, but those poor studios need to make a profit and any way they do it is just fine /s

    Loot boxes are dumb shit for even dumber people defended by the morally bankrupt.
    KyleranmaskedweaselAsm0deusTheocritusdragonlee66Sandmanjw
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Iselin said:
    But, but those poor studios need to make a profit and any way they do it is just fine /s

    Loot boxes are dumb shit for even dumber people defended by the morally bankrupt.

    Nobody here is defending it ..

       But if a person is literally not strong enough to resist an online game purchase , thay have already failed at life ..


    Thin the herd..
    TheocritusKyleranSandmanjwHawkeye666
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,773
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    But, but those poor studios need to make a profit and any way they do it is just fine /s

    Loot boxes are dumb shit for even dumber people defended by the morally bankrupt.

    Nobody here is defending it ..

    ORLY?

    Scorchien said:


    So either you have the money and make a conscious decision to spend it on your Hobby ..Nothing wrong with this

    Nothing wrong with this


    Hmm...
    maskedweaselKylerandragonlee66Sandmanjw
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 3,287

    Scorchien said:

    Blah blah blah Bullshit ..



    So either you have the money and make a conscious decision to spend it on your Hobby ..Nothing wrong with this



    Or you dont have the money cant control yourself and impulse spend like low hanging fruit .. Something wrong with this .. Maybe focus on ones life more before you start pushing purchase buttons on a Game ..



    And if your a parent you should have full control over any purchases your kid is making , if you dont , your doing it wrong ..



    Games are no different than any other hobby , people not living within there means is always a problem , these individuals generally lack self control and disipline ..










    The problem is when one's lack of control is due to addiction. That's not something one can self-control and discipline away quickly, easily or generally at all without some help and only when the person gets to the point they acknowledge the need for and are receptive to it.

    You're right in that addictive spending in gaming is essentially the same as that of other hobbies, or anything else one can't control their spending on to the point where it becomes threatening or harmful to their well-being.

    Parents would have perfect control, in the ideal world. We live in the real world where nothing is perfect so we must deal with what is rather than what could, should, or would be.
    KyleranHawkeye666
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    edited October 2021
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    But, but those poor studios need to make a profit and any way they do it is just fine /s

    Loot boxes are dumb shit for even dumber people defended by the morally bankrupt.

    Nobody here is defending it ..

    ORLY?

    Scorchien said:


    So either you have the money and make a conscious decision to spend it on your Hobby ..Nothing wrong with this

    Nothing wrong with this


    Hmm...

    Lol thats not defending , Thats a simple basic Fact...

        So simply do you agree with ..


        You have the money to spend on something you enjoy .. And there is Nothing wrong with that ..

                Do you agree


                             or


        You dont have the money and foolishly spend it any way .. There is something wrong with this ..


      So answer .. do you agree .. with the 2 statements ..

       Go ahead answer ...  Now is your answer defending the first action .. Or is it simple common sense ..

      Of course you agree .. .. and guess what you are not defending the action ..

       
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,388
    agent575 said:
    what..? I love loot boxes - don't get rid of them

    Ive never been tempted to buy lootboxes, but maybe for some people it is fun? Different strokes for different folks.....
  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,723



    Scorchien said:

    Blah blah blah Bullshit ..



    So either you have the money and make a conscious decision to spend it on your Hobby ..Nothing wrong with this



    Or you dont have the money cant control yourself and impulse spend like low hanging fruit .. Something wrong with this .. Maybe focus on ones life more before you start pushing purchase buttons on a Game ..



    And if your a parent you should have full control over any purchases your kid is making , if you dont , your doing it wrong ..



    Games are no different than any other hobby , people not living within there means is always a problem , these individuals generally lack self control and disipline ..









    My parents never knew what games they bought for me. They weren't gamers. It doesn't help either that most of these games are on mobile, where you have play store or apple store credits that can be used to buy everything. 

    It's like saying gambling is a hobby. Or giving a nod to 'recreational drug use'. 

    Don't know if you play these games or not, but I do play mobile games, and I've spent on them, I do understand how easy it is to get dragged into spending money you probably shouldn't spend. 

    I've never spent anything I can't afford, but I have easily had remorse on spending money because half the time when I do spend I don't get anything that I want. 

    You literally have a better shot at throwing your money into crypto, or a shady crypto game than you do lootboxes.



    Tough life, too make such an important and informed decision. Everyone picks their poison some folks for better or worst, in your case, sounds worse. Gambling is a hobby for some folks, it's no different then seeing the same folks who show up for bingo night.
    You still have the option to stop or keep going.
    Kyleran
    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    edited October 2021

    Scorchien said:

    Blah blah blah Bullshit ..



    So either you have the money and make a conscious decision to spend it on your Hobby ..Nothing wrong with this



    Or you dont have the money cant control yourself and impulse spend like low hanging fruit .. Something wrong with this .. Maybe focus on ones life more before you start pushing purchase buttons on a Game ..



    And if your a parent you should have full control over any purchases your kid is making , if you dont , your doing it wrong ..



    Games are no different than any other hobby , people not living within there means is always a problem , these individuals generally lack self control and disipline ..










    The problem is when one's lack of control is due to addiction. That's not something one can self-control and discipline away quickly, easily or generally at all without some help and only when the person gets to the point they acknowledge the need for and are receptive to it.

    You're right in that addictive spending in gaming is essentially the same as that of other hobbies, or anything else one can't control their spending on to the point where it becomes threatening or harmful to their well-being.

    Parents would have perfect control, in the ideal world. We live in the real world where nothing is perfect so we must deal with what is rather than what could, should, or would be.

        Of course , its an addiction , and if you are weak the result is bad choices.. So if you are knowing an willfully damaging yourself repeatedly Pushing Purchase.. on impulse , you got exactly what you deserve .. .. If you arent smart enough to know how to spend and /or handle your money , you dont deserve to have it ..  Its not like a heroin addiction , these are very very different things .. The later is very powerful the former mentioned is just an excuse for the very stupid..

      The rest of responsible people should not be punished because of some stupid few ..

      Are we going to remove cars from the world because we have people who purchase cars they really cannot afford .. and get them repoed ... because of bad choices ..

     Should we shut down all casinos also .. Because we have some weak stupid people who gamble away there homes .. Its not societites problem .. Its there problem ..
     
       Most people are responsible enought to take X amount of money enjoy some games , enjoy a meal an go home .. WHy should those people be denied these things because of some ignorant weak others ..

         "ohh i could not stop myself from buying the Flashy Rainbow Treasure Box .. ..."And did not buy groceries this week .. What am i to do "

        LMFAO .. This person needs to really asses there life and step away from the PC "

      But in either case .. thin the herd ..

      Ive looked friends square in the eye with addictions to Drugs/Alcohol/Smoking etc .. and told them .. "Love ya Bro but i have zero sympathy when you die and you are going to" .. Then i buried them ..

     

       I put 2 kids thru Ohio St and have 10 year old son now , None of the 3 ever made an online purchase as a minor with out my exact knowledge and or control of those finances .. Its just good parenting .. The internet is no place to let your kid wander around with your CC or Bank Information .. Its stupid at the very least ..
    KyleranStoneRoses
  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,723



    agent575 said:

    what..? I love loot boxes - don't get rid of them



    Ive never been tempted to buy lootboxes, but maybe for some people it is fun? Different strokes for different folks.....



    Same, but I feel that we are a minority. And folks show little to no restraint are the ones who allow business to continue to flourish, why we continue to see them in pretty much every fucking game.
    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,773
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    But, but those poor studios need to make a profit and any way they do it is just fine /s

    Loot boxes are dumb shit for even dumber people defended by the morally bankrupt.

    Nobody here is defending it ..

    ORLY?

    Scorchien said:


    So either you have the money and make a conscious decision to spend it on your Hobby ..Nothing wrong with this

    Nothing wrong with this


    Hmm...

    Lol thats not defending , Thats a simple basic Fact...

        So simply do you agree with ..


        You have the money to spend on something you enjoy .. And there is Nothing wrong with that ..

                Do you agree


                             or


        You dont have the money and foolishly spend it any way .. There is something wrong with this ..


      So answer .. do you agree .. with the 2 statements ..

       Go ahead answer ...  Now is your answer defending the first action .. Or is it simple common sense ..

      Of course you agree .. .. and guess what you are not defending the action ..

       
    The topic is loot boxes and whether they're an OK monetization gimmick or need to go.

    Not the wealthy v. poor horseshit you're spewing.

    By your own words you gave them the seal of approval by saying if you have the money it's OK to spend money on loot boxes.

    You may not be able to connect your own dots to see how you're defending loot boxes but you sure as shit are,
    maskedweaselKyleran
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    edited October 2021
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    But, but those poor studios need to make a profit and any way they do it is just fine /s

    Loot boxes are dumb shit for even dumber people defended by the morally bankrupt.

    Nobody here is defending it ..

    ORLY?

    Scorchien said:


    So either you have the money and make a conscious decision to spend it on your Hobby ..Nothing wrong with this

    Nothing wrong with this


    Hmm...

    Lol thats not defending , Thats a simple basic Fact...

        So simply do you agree with ..


        You have the money to spend on something you enjoy .. And there is Nothing wrong with that ..

                Do you agree


                             or


        You dont have the money and foolishly spend it any way .. There is something wrong with this ..


      So answer .. do you agree .. with the 2 statements ..

       Go ahead answer ...  Now is your answer defending the first action .. Or is it simple common sense ..

      Of course you agree .. .. and guess what you are not defending the action ..

       
    The topic is loot boxes and whether they're an OK monetization gimmick or need to go.

    Not the wealthy v. poor horseshit you're spewing.

    By your own words you gave them the seal of approval by saying if you have the money it's OK to spend money on whatever you want .    Fixed .. This is true ..

    You may not be able to connect your own dots to see how you're defending loot boxes but you sure as shit are,

    Just answer the questions , as usual you avoid that part.. It is a simple as that .. It no different than any other industry in the world .. Cars /Houses /Casinos /Boating/Fishing /furniture pick something anything , .. Loot Boxes are no different than anything else , you either can afford the decision and there is nothing wrong with it or you cant .. and its a bad choice ..

     And it has nothing at all with wealthy vs poor .. thats you that introduced that ..

      Spending ones money is relative to there situation ..

     Its more ...   Stupid vs Responsible..
    IselinKyleranStoneRoses
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Vrika said:
    Scorchien said:
    And if your a parent you should have full control over any purchases your kid is making , if you dont , your doing it wrong ..
    If you're a parent you'll control your child's purchases for the first years of her life.

    Then the control starts slipping because you're doing it right and letting her earn some pocket money through chores and start giving her some freedom.

    This is true to a point , And yes my 10 year old now earns an allowance by helping around the house , I give him some cash and he gets to decide if he wants to save/purchase .. and this is great and what parents should be doing .So of course i am assuming these are kids we are talking about as they are doing Chores .

       But NO parent should giving there kid there CC or Bank info and access to the internet ..  This is just stupid and foolish ..

      2 very different things we are talking about ..
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 3,287
    Scorchien said:

    Scorchien said:

    Blah blah blah Bullshit ..



    So either you have the money and make a conscious decision to spend it on your Hobby ..Nothing wrong with this



    Or you dont have the money cant control yourself and impulse spend like low hanging fruit .. Something wrong with this .. Maybe focus on ones life more before you start pushing purchase buttons on a Game ..



    And if your a parent you should have full control over any purchases your kid is making , if you dont , your doing it wrong ..



    Games are no different than any other hobby , people not living within there means is always a problem , these individuals generally lack self control and disipline ..










    The problem is when one's lack of control is due to addiction. That's not something one can self-control and discipline away quickly, easily or generally at all without some help and only when the person gets to the point they acknowledge the need for and are receptive to it.

    You're right in that addictive spending in gaming is essentially the same as that of other hobbies, or anything else one can't control their spending on to the point where it becomes threatening or harmful to their well-being.

    Parents would have perfect control, in the ideal world. We live in the real world where nothing is perfect so we must deal with what is rather than what could, should, or would be.

        Of course , its an addiction , and if you are weak the result is bad choices.. So if you are knowing an willfully damaging yourself repeatedly Pushing Purchase.. on impulse , you got exactly what you deserve .. .. If you arent smart enough to know how to spend and /or handle your money , you dont deserve to have it ..  Its not like a heroin addiction , these are very very different things .. The later is very powerful the former mentioned is just an excuse for the very stupid..

      The rest of responsible people should not be punished because of some stupid few ..

      Are we going to remove cars from the world because we have people who purchase cars they really cannot afford .. and get them repoed ... because of bad choices ..

     Should we shut down all casinos also .. Because we have some weak stupid people who gamble away there homes .. Its not societites problem .. Its there problem ..
     
       Most people are responsible enought to take X amount of money enjoy some games , enjoy a meal an go home .. WHy should those people be denied these things because of some ignorant weak others ..

         "ohh i could not stop myself from buying the Flashy Rainbow Treasure Box .. ..."And did not buy groceries this week .. What am i to do "

        LMFAO .. This person needs to really asses there life and step away from the PC "

      But in either case .. thin the herd ..

      Ive looked friends square in the eye with addictions to Drugs/Alcohol/Smoking etc .. and told them .. "Love ya Bro but i have zero sympathy when you die and you are going to" .. Then i buried them ..

     

       I put 2 kids thru Ohio St and have 10 year old son now , None of the 3 ever made an online purchase as a minor with out my exact knowledge and or control of those finances .. Its just good parenting .. The internet is no place to let your kid wander around with your CC or Bank Information .. Its stupid at the very least ..

    Addiction isn't a weakness based issue, nor is it an intelligence based one. That you consider it either indicates you have no understanding of it, at all.

    Society doesn't typically accommodate addiction, nor should it. Alcoholics do not prevent the sale of alcohol, tobacco related addictions don't prevent the sale of it, gambling addiction does not cause the closure of casinos or lotteries to be shut down, lock boxes to be banned, and so forth. Though addictions do have societal impact they are at their core tied to the individual so they must be addressed at that level rather than at the communal one.

    Rather, the onus is put on those struggling with addictions to overcome them with societal support devoted to that end, primarily through AA and other such groups, along with some others. The help is targeted where needed rather than expecting the many to accommodate the few, as it should be.

    As far as raising you children goes, great. You did quite well. If you were the world everyone and everything would be all set. You're not.

    Not everyone raises their children the same way. Not everyone is blessed with children that do absolutely everything they're told to the letter. Not everyone can be present to the degree that such constraint can be maintained.

    Your world isn't the world. Your experience isn't all experience.
    Kyleran[Deleted User]
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