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Is Play to Earn Real or is it All Just a Big Gimmick? | MMONFT | MMORPG.com

135

Comments

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 7,128
    Quizzical said:
    Needing to pay several hundred dollars to get started without knowing if you'll even like the game is not really compatible with the way that I've played games in the past.

    I'm not necessarily against games allowing players to sell things to each other, or even using NFTs to facilitate it.  I have no problem with EVE's PLEX system, for example, nor with analogous things in a number of other games.  I am against needing to pay hundreds of dollars to get started that you can't easily get refunded if you decide that the game is dumb and quit almost immediately.

    I'm also against the game being really just a pretext to host NFTs.  In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to be a good game that merely uses blockchain as a side feature.  Most of the blockchain games that I've seen present themselves as if blockchain and NFTs are the point of the game, and the game itself is an afterthought.

    ...

    In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to first be a good game.  Blockchain and NFTs have to merely be a side feature, and one of many side features.  If NFTs are the point of the game and everything else is built around NFTs, then the game is going to be garbage.
    I am quoting Quizzical because it directly addressed one of the issues that I feel is important, the cost of entry. As P2E games take off, they have quickly escalated the cost of entry, which eliminates many potential players. This is part of the reason that many have endorsed the scholarship approach, so a player can start playing with $0 upfront (the upfront cost is covered by someone else). However, this just delays the issue, as someone has to keep paying the upfront cost for the game to grow. With this approach, the best that we can hope for is a MLM type approach that brings in enough new players to keep the game going long term.

    This is why I expect someone to eventually apply a F2P model to the P2E approach. With these combined, you could easily add unlimited non earning accounts, with earning slowly growing as you add investment. This would allow for free players to enjoy the game, but for players that invest to earn some returns as well. It would still allow for investors to run scholarships for those that want to earn with no investment, but all of this would be done AFTER players are playing the game. I see this as the future for most online games.

    Oh, and for how this all began, the oldest game that I am aware of that has any variation of P2E was Project Entropia (now Entropia Universe)
    The high entry cost is intentional: Letting your members earn money can give you large influx of new members who pay high entry fee for the privilege of being able to earn in future. It's tried and tested method by pyramid schemers that those entry fees can exceed what you let your existing members earn and keep your operation profitable for quite a long time.

    Entropia Universe is a good example of how much people would earn if the game was built around idea of stable population instead of around the idea of entry fees being used to pay existing players.
    QuizzicalTorval
     
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,042
    Vrika said:
    Quizzical said:
    Needing to pay several hundred dollars to get started without knowing if you'll even like the game is not really compatible with the way that I've played games in the past.

    I'm not necessarily against games allowing players to sell things to each other, or even using NFTs to facilitate it.  I have no problem with EVE's PLEX system, for example, nor with analogous things in a number of other games.  I am against needing to pay hundreds of dollars to get started that you can't easily get refunded if you decide that the game is dumb and quit almost immediately.

    I'm also against the game being really just a pretext to host NFTs.  In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to be a good game that merely uses blockchain as a side feature.  Most of the blockchain games that I've seen present themselves as if blockchain and NFTs are the point of the game, and the game itself is an afterthought.

    ...

    In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to first be a good game.  Blockchain and NFTs have to merely be a side feature, and one of many side features.  If NFTs are the point of the game and everything else is built around NFTs, then the game is going to be garbage.
    I am quoting Quizzical because it directly addressed one of the issues that I feel is important, the cost of entry. As P2E games take off, they have quickly escalated the cost of entry, which eliminates many potential players. This is part of the reason that many have endorsed the scholarship approach, so a player can start playing with $0 upfront (the upfront cost is covered by someone else). However, this just delays the issue, as someone has to keep paying the upfront cost for the game to grow. With this approach, the best that we can hope for is a MLM type approach that brings in enough new players to keep the game going long term.

    This is why I expect someone to eventually apply a F2P model to the P2E approach. With these combined, you could easily add unlimited non earning accounts, with earning slowly growing as you add investment. This would allow for free players to enjoy the game, but for players that invest to earn some returns as well. It would still allow for investors to run scholarships for those that want to earn with no investment, but all of this would be done AFTER players are playing the game. I see this as the future for most online games.

    Oh, and for how this all began, the oldest game that I am aware of that has any variation of P2E was Project Entropia (now Entropia Universe)
    The high entry cost is intentional: Letting your members earn money can give you large influx of new members who pay high entry fee for the privilege of being able to earn in future. It's tried and tested method by pyramid schemers that those entry fees can exceed what you let your existing members earn and keep your operation profitable for quite a long time.

    Entropia Universe is a good example of how much people would earn if the game was built around idea of stable population instead of around the idea of entry fees being used to pay existing players.
    Regardless. You are being priced out right now. At this very moment. 

    It's better to pay that entry fee now (if there is a game you're interested in) than wait 6 months, a year.  Like it or not. 

    The value of fiat is falling at a scary pace. 
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,990
    edited October 14
    bcbully said:
    Vrika said:
    Quizzical said:
    Needing to pay several hundred dollars to get started without knowing if you'll even like the game is not really compatible with the way that I've played games in the past.

    I'm not necessarily against games allowing players to sell things to each other, or even using NFTs to facilitate it.  I have no problem with EVE's PLEX system, for example, nor with analogous things in a number of other games.  I am against needing to pay hundreds of dollars to get started that you can't easily get refunded if you decide that the game is dumb and quit almost immediately.

    I'm also against the game being really just a pretext to host NFTs.  In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to be a good game that merely uses blockchain as a side feature.  Most of the blockchain games that I've seen present themselves as if blockchain and NFTs are the point of the game, and the game itself is an afterthought.

    ...

    In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to first be a good game.  Blockchain and NFTs have to merely be a side feature, and one of many side features.  If NFTs are the point of the game and everything else is built around NFTs, then the game is going to be garbage.
    I am quoting Quizzical because it directly addressed one of the issues that I feel is important, the cost of entry. As P2E games take off, they have quickly escalated the cost of entry, which eliminates many potential players. This is part of the reason that many have endorsed the scholarship approach, so a player can start playing with $0 upfront (the upfront cost is covered by someone else). However, this just delays the issue, as someone has to keep paying the upfront cost for the game to grow. With this approach, the best that we can hope for is a MLM type approach that brings in enough new players to keep the game going long term.

    This is why I expect someone to eventually apply a F2P model to the P2E approach. With these combined, you could easily add unlimited non earning accounts, with earning slowly growing as you add investment. This would allow for free players to enjoy the game, but for players that invest to earn some returns as well. It would still allow for investors to run scholarships for those that want to earn with no investment, but all of this would be done AFTER players are playing the game. I see this as the future for most online games.

    Oh, and for how this all began, the oldest game that I am aware of that has any variation of P2E was Project Entropia (now Entropia Universe)
    The high entry cost is intentional: Letting your members earn money can give you large influx of new members who pay high entry fee for the privilege of being able to earn in future. It's tried and tested method by pyramid schemers that those entry fees can exceed what you let your existing members earn and keep your operation profitable for quite a long time.

    Entropia Universe is a good example of how much people would earn if the game was built around idea of stable population instead of around the idea of entry fees being used to pay existing players.
    Regardless. You are being priced out right now. At this very moment. 

    It's better to pay that entry fee now (if there is a game you're interested in) than wait 6 months, a year.  Like it or not. 

    The value of fiat is falling at a scary pace. 
    Don’t let those boogeymen scare you. What your describing is inflation, what economists worry about more is deflation.

    Usually inflation is caused by things such as demand. When there is inflationary pressure it usually means the economy is humming along nicely. Sometimes you get things like wars, disasters that can cause supply shortages which in turn can cause hyper inflation which is the the type you don’t want to see.

    An economy where there is no inflation is in recession. If there is no inflation, there is no demand. If there is sustained deflationary pressure…. We’ll have to ask the people in the 1930’s what that was like, they called it the depression.

    If you make or sell an object and they fly off the shelf. Your going to raise your price, it’s human nature.

    edit: rule of thumb Inflation = growing economy Deflation = shrinking economy and neither = a stagnant economy.

    And last thing. All currencies, crypto included are based on trust. The trust is measured in the stability.
     


    Mendel

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,042
    edited October 14
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    Vrika said:
    Quizzical said:
    Needing to pay several hundred dollars to get started without knowing if you'll even like the game is not really compatible with the way that I've played games in the past.

    I'm not necessarily against games allowing players to sell things to each other, or even using NFTs to facilitate it.  I have no problem with EVE's PLEX system, for example, nor with analogous things in a number of other games.  I am against needing to pay hundreds of dollars to get started that you can't easily get refunded if you decide that the game is dumb and quit almost immediately.

    I'm also against the game being really just a pretext to host NFTs.  In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to be a good game that merely uses blockchain as a side feature.  Most of the blockchain games that I've seen present themselves as if blockchain and NFTs are the point of the game, and the game itself is an afterthought.

    ...

    In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to first be a good game.  Blockchain and NFTs have to merely be a side feature, and one of many side features.  If NFTs are the point of the game and everything else is built around NFTs, then the game is going to be garbage.
    I am quoting Quizzical because it directly addressed one of the issues that I feel is important, the cost of entry. As P2E games take off, they have quickly escalated the cost of entry, which eliminates many potential players. This is part of the reason that many have endorsed the scholarship approach, so a player can start playing with $0 upfront (the upfront cost is covered by someone else). However, this just delays the issue, as someone has to keep paying the upfront cost for the game to grow. With this approach, the best that we can hope for is a MLM type approach that brings in enough new players to keep the game going long term.

    This is why I expect someone to eventually apply a F2P model to the P2E approach. With these combined, you could easily add unlimited non earning accounts, with earning slowly growing as you add investment. This would allow for free players to enjoy the game, but for players that invest to earn some returns as well. It would still allow for investors to run scholarships for those that want to earn with no investment, but all of this would be done AFTER players are playing the game. I see this as the future for most online games.

    Oh, and for how this all began, the oldest game that I am aware of that has any variation of P2E was Project Entropia (now Entropia Universe)
    The high entry cost is intentional: Letting your members earn money can give you large influx of new members who pay high entry fee for the privilege of being able to earn in future. It's tried and tested method by pyramid schemers that those entry fees can exceed what you let your existing members earn and keep your operation profitable for quite a long time.

    Entropia Universe is a good example of how much people would earn if the game was built around idea of stable population instead of around the idea of entry fees being used to pay existing players.
    Regardless. You are being priced out right now. At this very moment. 

    It's better to pay that entry fee now (if there is a game you're interested in) than wait 6 months, a year.  Like it or not. 

    The value of fiat is falling at a scary pace. 
    Don’t let those boogeymen scare you. What your describing is inflation, what economists worry about more is deflation.

    Usually inflation is caused by things such as demand. When there is inflationary pressure it usually means the economy is humming along nicely. Sometimes you get things like wars, disasters that can cause supply shortages which in turn can cause hyper inflation which is the the type you don’t want to see.

    An economy where there is no inflation is in recession. If there is no inflation, there is no demand. If there is sustained deflationary pressure…. We’ll have to ask the people in the 1930’s what that was like, they called it the depression.

    If you make or sell an object and they fly off the shelf. Your going to raise your price, it’s human nature.
     


    Ser Im not talking about tomatos and coffee. I'm talking about the dollar vaule to $ETH, to $MATIC, to $BSC, to $FLOW, to $ENJ. These are the chains 99% of games run on.

    edit - alert warning warning
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,990
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    Vrika said:
    Quizzical said:
    Needing to pay several hundred dollars to get started without knowing if you'll even like the game is not really compatible with the way that I've played games in the past.

    I'm not necessarily against games allowing players to sell things to each other, or even using NFTs to facilitate it.  I have no problem with EVE's PLEX system, for example, nor with analogous things in a number of other games.  I am against needing to pay hundreds of dollars to get started that you can't easily get refunded if you decide that the game is dumb and quit almost immediately.

    I'm also against the game being really just a pretext to host NFTs.  In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to be a good game that merely uses blockchain as a side feature.  Most of the blockchain games that I've seen present themselves as if blockchain and NFTs are the point of the game, and the game itself is an afterthought.

    ...

    In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to first be a good game.  Blockchain and NFTs have to merely be a side feature, and one of many side features.  If NFTs are the point of the game and everything else is built around NFTs, then the game is going to be garbage.
    I am quoting Quizzical because it directly addressed one of the issues that I feel is important, the cost of entry. As P2E games take off, they have quickly escalated the cost of entry, which eliminates many potential players. This is part of the reason that many have endorsed the scholarship approach, so a player can start playing with $0 upfront (the upfront cost is covered by someone else). However, this just delays the issue, as someone has to keep paying the upfront cost for the game to grow. With this approach, the best that we can hope for is a MLM type approach that brings in enough new players to keep the game going long term.

    This is why I expect someone to eventually apply a F2P model to the P2E approach. With these combined, you could easily add unlimited non earning accounts, with earning slowly growing as you add investment. This would allow for free players to enjoy the game, but for players that invest to earn some returns as well. It would still allow for investors to run scholarships for those that want to earn with no investment, but all of this would be done AFTER players are playing the game. I see this as the future for most online games.

    Oh, and for how this all began, the oldest game that I am aware of that has any variation of P2E was Project Entropia (now Entropia Universe)
    The high entry cost is intentional: Letting your members earn money can give you large influx of new members who pay high entry fee for the privilege of being able to earn in future. It's tried and tested method by pyramid schemers that those entry fees can exceed what you let your existing members earn and keep your operation profitable for quite a long time.

    Entropia Universe is a good example of how much people would earn if the game was built around idea of stable population instead of around the idea of entry fees being used to pay existing players.
    Regardless. You are being priced out right now. At this very moment. 

    It's better to pay that entry fee now (if there is a game you're interested in) than wait 6 months, a year.  Like it or not. 

    The value of fiat is falling at a scary pace. 
    Don’t let those boogeymen scare you. What your describing is inflation, what economists worry about more is deflation.

    Usually inflation is caused by things such as demand. When there is inflationary pressure it usually means the economy is humming along nicely. Sometimes you get things like wars, disasters that can cause supply shortages which in turn can cause hyper inflation which is the the type you don’t want to see.

    An economy where there is no inflation is in recession. If there is no inflation, there is no demand. If there is sustained deflationary pressure…. We’ll have to ask the people in the 1930’s what that was like, they called it the depression.

    If you make or sell an object and they fly off the shelf. Your going to raise your price, it’s human nature.
     


    Ser Im not talking about tomatos and coffee. I'm talking about the dollar vaule to $ETH, to $MATIC, to $BSC, to $FLOW, to $ENJ. These are the chains 99% of games run on.
    So what do you do with all your crypto? Look at it from a computer screen?

    Personally I make money so I can spend it. ;)

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,990
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    Vrika said:
    Quizzical said:
    Needing to pay several hundred dollars to get started without knowing if you'll even like the game is not really compatible with the way that I've played games in the past.

    I'm not necessarily against games allowing players to sell things to each other, or even using NFTs to facilitate it.  I have no problem with EVE's PLEX system, for example, nor with analogous things in a number of other games.  I am against needing to pay hundreds of dollars to get started that you can't easily get refunded if you decide that the game is dumb and quit almost immediately.

    I'm also against the game being really just a pretext to host NFTs.  In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to be a good game that merely uses blockchain as a side feature.  Most of the blockchain games that I've seen present themselves as if blockchain and NFTs are the point of the game, and the game itself is an afterthought.

    ...

    In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to first be a good game.  Blockchain and NFTs have to merely be a side feature, and one of many side features.  If NFTs are the point of the game and everything else is built around NFTs, then the game is going to be garbage.
    I am quoting Quizzical because it directly addressed one of the issues that I feel is important, the cost of entry. As P2E games take off, they have quickly escalated the cost of entry, which eliminates many potential players. This is part of the reason that many have endorsed the scholarship approach, so a player can start playing with $0 upfront (the upfront cost is covered by someone else). However, this just delays the issue, as someone has to keep paying the upfront cost for the game to grow. With this approach, the best that we can hope for is a MLM type approach that brings in enough new players to keep the game going long term.

    This is why I expect someone to eventually apply a F2P model to the P2E approach. With these combined, you could easily add unlimited non earning accounts, with earning slowly growing as you add investment. This would allow for free players to enjoy the game, but for players that invest to earn some returns as well. It would still allow for investors to run scholarships for those that want to earn with no investment, but all of this would be done AFTER players are playing the game. I see this as the future for most online games.

    Oh, and for how this all began, the oldest game that I am aware of that has any variation of P2E was Project Entropia (now Entropia Universe)
    The high entry cost is intentional: Letting your members earn money can give you large influx of new members who pay high entry fee for the privilege of being able to earn in future. It's tried and tested method by pyramid schemers that those entry fees can exceed what you let your existing members earn and keep your operation profitable for quite a long time.

    Entropia Universe is a good example of how much people would earn if the game was built around idea of stable population instead of around the idea of entry fees being used to pay existing players.
    Regardless. You are being priced out right now. At this very moment. 

    It's better to pay that entry fee now (if there is a game you're interested in) than wait 6 months, a year.  Like it or not. 

    The value of fiat is falling at a scary pace. 
    Don’t let those boogeymen scare you. What your describing is inflation, what economists worry about more is deflation.

    Usually inflation is caused by things such as demand. When there is inflationary pressure it usually means the economy is humming along nicely. Sometimes you get things like wars, disasters that can cause supply shortages which in turn can cause hyper inflation which is the the type you don’t want to see.

    An economy where there is no inflation is in recession. If there is no inflation, there is no demand. If there is sustained deflationary pressure…. We’ll have to ask the people in the 1930’s what that was like, they called it the depression.

    If you make or sell an object and they fly off the shelf. Your going to raise your price, it’s human nature.
     


    Ser Im not talking about tomatos and coffee. I'm talking about the dollar vaule to $ETH, to $MATIC, to $BSC, to $FLOW, to $ENJ. These are the chains 99% of games run on.

    edit - alert warning warning
    @bcbully

    This is where all these claims against Crypto vs Fiat leave me confused. Every argument I ever read or hear completely ignores what currency was created for in the first place.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,042
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    Vrika said:
    Quizzical said:
    Needing to pay several hundred dollars to get started without knowing if you'll even like the game is not really compatible with the way that I've played games in the past.

    I'm not necessarily against games allowing players to sell things to each other, or even using NFTs to facilitate it.  I have no problem with EVE's PLEX system, for example, nor with analogous things in a number of other games.  I am against needing to pay hundreds of dollars to get started that you can't easily get refunded if you decide that the game is dumb and quit almost immediately.

    I'm also against the game being really just a pretext to host NFTs.  In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to be a good game that merely uses blockchain as a side feature.  Most of the blockchain games that I've seen present themselves as if blockchain and NFTs are the point of the game, and the game itself is an afterthought.

    ...

    In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to first be a good game.  Blockchain and NFTs have to merely be a side feature, and one of many side features.  If NFTs are the point of the game and everything else is built around NFTs, then the game is going to be garbage.
    I am quoting Quizzical because it directly addressed one of the issues that I feel is important, the cost of entry. As P2E games take off, they have quickly escalated the cost of entry, which eliminates many potential players. This is part of the reason that many have endorsed the scholarship approach, so a player can start playing with $0 upfront (the upfront cost is covered by someone else). However, this just delays the issue, as someone has to keep paying the upfront cost for the game to grow. With this approach, the best that we can hope for is a MLM type approach that brings in enough new players to keep the game going long term.

    This is why I expect someone to eventually apply a F2P model to the P2E approach. With these combined, you could easily add unlimited non earning accounts, with earning slowly growing as you add investment. This would allow for free players to enjoy the game, but for players that invest to earn some returns as well. It would still allow for investors to run scholarships for those that want to earn with no investment, but all of this would be done AFTER players are playing the game. I see this as the future for most online games.

    Oh, and for how this all began, the oldest game that I am aware of that has any variation of P2E was Project Entropia (now Entropia Universe)
    The high entry cost is intentional: Letting your members earn money can give you large influx of new members who pay high entry fee for the privilege of being able to earn in future. It's tried and tested method by pyramid schemers that those entry fees can exceed what you let your existing members earn and keep your operation profitable for quite a long time.

    Entropia Universe is a good example of how much people would earn if the game was built around idea of stable population instead of around the idea of entry fees being used to pay existing players.
    Regardless. You are being priced out right now. At this very moment. 

    It's better to pay that entry fee now (if there is a game you're interested in) than wait 6 months, a year.  Like it or not. 

    The value of fiat is falling at a scary pace. 
    Don’t let those boogeymen scare you. What your describing is inflation, what economists worry about more is deflation.

    Usually inflation is caused by things such as demand. When there is inflationary pressure it usually means the economy is humming along nicely. Sometimes you get things like wars, disasters that can cause supply shortages which in turn can cause hyper inflation which is the the type you don’t want to see.

    An economy where there is no inflation is in recession. If there is no inflation, there is no demand. If there is sustained deflationary pressure…. We’ll have to ask the people in the 1930’s what that was like, they called it the depression.

    If you make or sell an object and they fly off the shelf. Your going to raise your price, it’s human nature.
     


    Ser Im not talking about tomatos and coffee. I'm talking about the dollar vaule to $ETH, to $MATIC, to $BSC, to $FLOW, to $ENJ. These are the chains 99% of games run on.
    So what do you do with all your crypto? Look at it from a computer screen?

    Personally I make money so I can spend it. ;)
    Earn yield ---> convert to fiat --> pay bills ---> get 2-4% crypto back. 

    oooh and play Zed Run. earn $eth ----> swap to $matic ---> go to line 1.


    rinse and repeat
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,990
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    Vrika said:
    Quizzical said:
    Needing to pay several hundred dollars to get started without knowing if you'll even like the game is not really compatible with the way that I've played games in the past.

    I'm not necessarily against games allowing players to sell things to each other, or even using NFTs to facilitate it.  I have no problem with EVE's PLEX system, for example, nor with analogous things in a number of other games.  I am against needing to pay hundreds of dollars to get started that you can't easily get refunded if you decide that the game is dumb and quit almost immediately.

    I'm also against the game being really just a pretext to host NFTs.  In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to be a good game that merely uses blockchain as a side feature.  Most of the blockchain games that I've seen present themselves as if blockchain and NFTs are the point of the game, and the game itself is an afterthought.

    ...

    In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to first be a good game.  Blockchain and NFTs have to merely be a side feature, and one of many side features.  If NFTs are the point of the game and everything else is built around NFTs, then the game is going to be garbage.
    I am quoting Quizzical because it directly addressed one of the issues that I feel is important, the cost of entry. As P2E games take off, they have quickly escalated the cost of entry, which eliminates many potential players. This is part of the reason that many have endorsed the scholarship approach, so a player can start playing with $0 upfront (the upfront cost is covered by someone else). However, this just delays the issue, as someone has to keep paying the upfront cost for the game to grow. With this approach, the best that we can hope for is a MLM type approach that brings in enough new players to keep the game going long term.

    This is why I expect someone to eventually apply a F2P model to the P2E approach. With these combined, you could easily add unlimited non earning accounts, with earning slowly growing as you add investment. This would allow for free players to enjoy the game, but for players that invest to earn some returns as well. It would still allow for investors to run scholarships for those that want to earn with no investment, but all of this would be done AFTER players are playing the game. I see this as the future for most online games.

    Oh, and for how this all began, the oldest game that I am aware of that has any variation of P2E was Project Entropia (now Entropia Universe)
    The high entry cost is intentional: Letting your members earn money can give you large influx of new members who pay high entry fee for the privilege of being able to earn in future. It's tried and tested method by pyramid schemers that those entry fees can exceed what you let your existing members earn and keep your operation profitable for quite a long time.

    Entropia Universe is a good example of how much people would earn if the game was built around idea of stable population instead of around the idea of entry fees being used to pay existing players.
    Regardless. You are being priced out right now. At this very moment. 

    It's better to pay that entry fee now (if there is a game you're interested in) than wait 6 months, a year.  Like it or not. 

    The value of fiat is falling at a scary pace. 
    Don’t let those boogeymen scare you. What your describing is inflation, what economists worry about more is deflation.

    Usually inflation is caused by things such as demand. When there is inflationary pressure it usually means the economy is humming along nicely. Sometimes you get things like wars, disasters that can cause supply shortages which in turn can cause hyper inflation which is the the type you don’t want to see.

    An economy where there is no inflation is in recession. If there is no inflation, there is no demand. If there is sustained deflationary pressure…. We’ll have to ask the people in the 1930’s what that was like, they called it the depression.

    If you make or sell an object and they fly off the shelf. Your going to raise your price, it’s human nature.
     


    Ser Im not talking about tomatos and coffee. I'm talking about the dollar vaule to $ETH, to $MATIC, to $BSC, to $FLOW, to $ENJ. These are the chains 99% of games run on.
    So what do you do with all your crypto? Look at it from a computer screen?

    Personally I make money so I can spend it. ;)
    Earn yield ---> convert to fiat --> pay bills ---> get 2-4% crypto back. 

    oooh and play Zed Run. earn $eth ----> swap to $matic ---> go to line 1.


    rinse and repeat
    Your not using it as a currency, your using it as an investment vehicle.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,042
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    Vrika said:
    Quizzical said:
    Needing to pay several hundred dollars to get started without knowing if you'll even like the game is not really compatible with the way that I've played games in the past.

    I'm not necessarily against games allowing players to sell things to each other, or even using NFTs to facilitate it.  I have no problem with EVE's PLEX system, for example, nor with analogous things in a number of other games.  I am against needing to pay hundreds of dollars to get started that you can't easily get refunded if you decide that the game is dumb and quit almost immediately.

    I'm also against the game being really just a pretext to host NFTs.  In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to be a good game that merely uses blockchain as a side feature.  Most of the blockchain games that I've seen present themselves as if blockchain and NFTs are the point of the game, and the game itself is an afterthought.

    ...

    In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to first be a good game.  Blockchain and NFTs have to merely be a side feature, and one of many side features.  If NFTs are the point of the game and everything else is built around NFTs, then the game is going to be garbage.
    I am quoting Quizzical because it directly addressed one of the issues that I feel is important, the cost of entry. As P2E games take off, they have quickly escalated the cost of entry, which eliminates many potential players. This is part of the reason that many have endorsed the scholarship approach, so a player can start playing with $0 upfront (the upfront cost is covered by someone else). However, this just delays the issue, as someone has to keep paying the upfront cost for the game to grow. With this approach, the best that we can hope for is a MLM type approach that brings in enough new players to keep the game going long term.

    This is why I expect someone to eventually apply a F2P model to the P2E approach. With these combined, you could easily add unlimited non earning accounts, with earning slowly growing as you add investment. This would allow for free players to enjoy the game, but for players that invest to earn some returns as well. It would still allow for investors to run scholarships for those that want to earn with no investment, but all of this would be done AFTER players are playing the game. I see this as the future for most online games.

    Oh, and for how this all began, the oldest game that I am aware of that has any variation of P2E was Project Entropia (now Entropia Universe)
    The high entry cost is intentional: Letting your members earn money can give you large influx of new members who pay high entry fee for the privilege of being able to earn in future. It's tried and tested method by pyramid schemers that those entry fees can exceed what you let your existing members earn and keep your operation profitable for quite a long time.

    Entropia Universe is a good example of how much people would earn if the game was built around idea of stable population instead of around the idea of entry fees being used to pay existing players.
    Regardless. You are being priced out right now. At this very moment. 

    It's better to pay that entry fee now (if there is a game you're interested in) than wait 6 months, a year.  Like it or not. 

    The value of fiat is falling at a scary pace. 
    Don’t let those boogeymen scare you. What your describing is inflation, what economists worry about more is deflation.

    Usually inflation is caused by things such as demand. When there is inflationary pressure it usually means the economy is humming along nicely. Sometimes you get things like wars, disasters that can cause supply shortages which in turn can cause hyper inflation which is the the type you don’t want to see.

    An economy where there is no inflation is in recession. If there is no inflation, there is no demand. If there is sustained deflationary pressure…. We’ll have to ask the people in the 1930’s what that was like, they called it the depression.

    If you make or sell an object and they fly off the shelf. Your going to raise your price, it’s human nature.
     


    Ser Im not talking about tomatos and coffee. I'm talking about the dollar vaule to $ETH, to $MATIC, to $BSC, to $FLOW, to $ENJ. These are the chains 99% of games run on.
    So what do you do with all your crypto? Look at it from a computer screen?

    Personally I make money so I can spend it. ;)
    Earn yield ---> convert to fiat --> pay bills ---> get 2-4% crypto back. 

    oooh and play Zed Run. earn $eth ----> swap to $matic ---> go to line 1.


    rinse and repeat
    Your not using it as a currency, your using it as an investment vehicle.
    I'm doing both. I use it as currency for games. 

    I could use it to buy property, cars, take trips etc. aswell. 


    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 16,625
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    Vrika said:
    Quizzical said:
    Needing to pay several hundred dollars to get started without knowing if you'll even like the game is not really compatible with the way that I've played games in the past.

    I'm not necessarily against games allowing players to sell things to each other, or even using NFTs to facilitate it.  I have no problem with EVE's PLEX system, for example, nor with analogous things in a number of other games.  I am against needing to pay hundreds of dollars to get started that you can't easily get refunded if you decide that the game is dumb and quit almost immediately.

    I'm also against the game being really just a pretext to host NFTs.  In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to be a good game that merely uses blockchain as a side feature.  Most of the blockchain games that I've seen present themselves as if blockchain and NFTs are the point of the game, and the game itself is an afterthought.

    ...

    In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to first be a good game.  Blockchain and NFTs have to merely be a side feature, and one of many side features.  If NFTs are the point of the game and everything else is built around NFTs, then the game is going to be garbage.
    I am quoting Quizzical because it directly addressed one of the issues that I feel is important, the cost of entry. As P2E games take off, they have quickly escalated the cost of entry, which eliminates many potential players. This is part of the reason that many have endorsed the scholarship approach, so a player can start playing with $0 upfront (the upfront cost is covered by someone else). However, this just delays the issue, as someone has to keep paying the upfront cost for the game to grow. With this approach, the best that we can hope for is a MLM type approach that brings in enough new players to keep the game going long term.

    This is why I expect someone to eventually apply a F2P model to the P2E approach. With these combined, you could easily add unlimited non earning accounts, with earning slowly growing as you add investment. This would allow for free players to enjoy the game, but for players that invest to earn some returns as well. It would still allow for investors to run scholarships for those that want to earn with no investment, but all of this would be done AFTER players are playing the game. I see this as the future for most online games.

    Oh, and for how this all began, the oldest game that I am aware of that has any variation of P2E was Project Entropia (now Entropia Universe)
    The high entry cost is intentional: Letting your members earn money can give you large influx of new members who pay high entry fee for the privilege of being able to earn in future. It's tried and tested method by pyramid schemers that those entry fees can exceed what you let your existing members earn and keep your operation profitable for quite a long time.

    Entropia Universe is a good example of how much people would earn if the game was built around idea of stable population instead of around the idea of entry fees being used to pay existing players.
    Regardless. You are being priced out right now. At this very moment. 

    It's better to pay that entry fee now (if there is a game you're interested in) than wait 6 months, a year.  Like it or not. 

    The value of fiat is falling at a scary pace. 
    Don’t let those boogeymen scare you. What your describing is inflation, what economists worry about more is deflation.

    Usually inflation is caused by things such as demand. When there is inflationary pressure it usually means the economy is humming along nicely. Sometimes you get things like wars, disasters that can cause supply shortages which in turn can cause hyper inflation which is the the type you don’t want to see.

    An economy where there is no inflation is in recession. If there is no inflation, there is no demand. If there is sustained deflationary pressure…. We’ll have to ask the people in the 1930’s what that was like, they called it the depression.

    If you make or sell an object and they fly off the shelf. Your going to raise your price, it’s human nature.
     


    Ser Im not talking about tomatos and coffee. I'm talking about the dollar vaule to $ETH, to $MATIC, to $BSC, to $FLOW, to $ENJ. These are the chains 99% of games run on.
    So what do you do with all your crypto? Look at it from a computer screen?

    Personally I make money so I can spend it. ;)
    Earn yield ---> convert to fiat --> pay bills ---> get 2-4% crypto back. 

    oooh and play Zed Run. earn $eth ----> swap to $matic ---> go to line 1.


    rinse and repeat
    Your not using it as a currency, your using it as an investment vehicle.
    I'm doing both. I use it as currency for games. 

    I could use it to buy property, cars, take trips etc. aswell. 


    I keep telling you to go on holiday to EL Salvador and snub China. :)
    laserit
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,990
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    Vrika said:
    Quizzical said:
    Needing to pay several hundred dollars to get started without knowing if you'll even like the game is not really compatible with the way that I've played games in the past.

    I'm not necessarily against games allowing players to sell things to each other, or even using NFTs to facilitate it.  I have no problem with EVE's PLEX system, for example, nor with analogous things in a number of other games.  I am against needing to pay hundreds of dollars to get started that you can't easily get refunded if you decide that the game is dumb and quit almost immediately.

    I'm also against the game being really just a pretext to host NFTs.  In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to be a good game that merely uses blockchain as a side feature.  Most of the blockchain games that I've seen present themselves as if blockchain and NFTs are the point of the game, and the game itself is an afterthought.

    ...

    In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to first be a good game.  Blockchain and NFTs have to merely be a side feature, and one of many side features.  If NFTs are the point of the game and everything else is built around NFTs, then the game is going to be garbage.
    I am quoting Quizzical because it directly addressed one of the issues that I feel is important, the cost of entry. As P2E games take off, they have quickly escalated the cost of entry, which eliminates many potential players. This is part of the reason that many have endorsed the scholarship approach, so a player can start playing with $0 upfront (the upfront cost is covered by someone else). However, this just delays the issue, as someone has to keep paying the upfront cost for the game to grow. With this approach, the best that we can hope for is a MLM type approach that brings in enough new players to keep the game going long term.

    This is why I expect someone to eventually apply a F2P model to the P2E approach. With these combined, you could easily add unlimited non earning accounts, with earning slowly growing as you add investment. This would allow for free players to enjoy the game, but for players that invest to earn some returns as well. It would still allow for investors to run scholarships for those that want to earn with no investment, but all of this would be done AFTER players are playing the game. I see this as the future for most online games.

    Oh, and for how this all began, the oldest game that I am aware of that has any variation of P2E was Project Entropia (now Entropia Universe)
    The high entry cost is intentional: Letting your members earn money can give you large influx of new members who pay high entry fee for the privilege of being able to earn in future. It's tried and tested method by pyramid schemers that those entry fees can exceed what you let your existing members earn and keep your operation profitable for quite a long time.

    Entropia Universe is a good example of how much people would earn if the game was built around idea of stable population instead of around the idea of entry fees being used to pay existing players.
    Regardless. You are being priced out right now. At this very moment. 

    It's better to pay that entry fee now (if there is a game you're interested in) than wait 6 months, a year.  Like it or not. 

    The value of fiat is falling at a scary pace. 
    Don’t let those boogeymen scare you. What your describing is inflation, what economists worry about more is deflation.

    Usually inflation is caused by things such as demand. When there is inflationary pressure it usually means the economy is humming along nicely. Sometimes you get things like wars, disasters that can cause supply shortages which in turn can cause hyper inflation which is the the type you don’t want to see.

    An economy where there is no inflation is in recession. If there is no inflation, there is no demand. If there is sustained deflationary pressure…. We’ll have to ask the people in the 1930’s what that was like, they called it the depression.

    If you make or sell an object and they fly off the shelf. Your going to raise your price, it’s human nature.
     


    Ser Im not talking about tomatos and coffee. I'm talking about the dollar vaule to $ETH, to $MATIC, to $BSC, to $FLOW, to $ENJ. These are the chains 99% of games run on.
    So what do you do with all your crypto? Look at it from a computer screen?

    Personally I make money so I can spend it. ;)
    Earn yield ---> convert to fiat --> pay bills ---> get 2-4% crypto back. 

    oooh and play Zed Run. earn $eth ----> swap to $matic ---> go to line 1.


    rinse and repeat
    Your not using it as a currency, your using it as an investment vehicle.
    I'm doing both. I use it as currency for games. 

    I could use it to buy property, cars, take trips etc. aswell. 


    Good you can spend it on something, it’s completely useless to me unless I convert it to fiat.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,042
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    Vrika said:
    Quizzical said:
    Needing to pay several hundred dollars to get started without knowing if you'll even like the game is not really compatible with the way that I've played games in the past.

    I'm not necessarily against games allowing players to sell things to each other, or even using NFTs to facilitate it.  I have no problem with EVE's PLEX system, for example, nor with analogous things in a number of other games.  I am against needing to pay hundreds of dollars to get started that you can't easily get refunded if you decide that the game is dumb and quit almost immediately.

    I'm also against the game being really just a pretext to host NFTs.  In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to be a good game that merely uses blockchain as a side feature.  Most of the blockchain games that I've seen present themselves as if blockchain and NFTs are the point of the game, and the game itself is an afterthought.

    ...

    In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to first be a good game.  Blockchain and NFTs have to merely be a side feature, and one of many side features.  If NFTs are the point of the game and everything else is built around NFTs, then the game is going to be garbage.
    I am quoting Quizzical because it directly addressed one of the issues that I feel is important, the cost of entry. As P2E games take off, they have quickly escalated the cost of entry, which eliminates many potential players. This is part of the reason that many have endorsed the scholarship approach, so a player can start playing with $0 upfront (the upfront cost is covered by someone else). However, this just delays the issue, as someone has to keep paying the upfront cost for the game to grow. With this approach, the best that we can hope for is a MLM type approach that brings in enough new players to keep the game going long term.

    This is why I expect someone to eventually apply a F2P model to the P2E approach. With these combined, you could easily add unlimited non earning accounts, with earning slowly growing as you add investment. This would allow for free players to enjoy the game, but for players that invest to earn some returns as well. It would still allow for investors to run scholarships for those that want to earn with no investment, but all of this would be done AFTER players are playing the game. I see this as the future for most online games.

    Oh, and for how this all began, the oldest game that I am aware of that has any variation of P2E was Project Entropia (now Entropia Universe)
    The high entry cost is intentional: Letting your members earn money can give you large influx of new members who pay high entry fee for the privilege of being able to earn in future. It's tried and tested method by pyramid schemers that those entry fees can exceed what you let your existing members earn and keep your operation profitable for quite a long time.

    Entropia Universe is a good example of how much people would earn if the game was built around idea of stable population instead of around the idea of entry fees being used to pay existing players.
    Regardless. You are being priced out right now. At this very moment. 

    It's better to pay that entry fee now (if there is a game you're interested in) than wait 6 months, a year.  Like it or not. 

    The value of fiat is falling at a scary pace. 
    Don’t let those boogeymen scare you. What your describing is inflation, what economists worry about more is deflation.

    Usually inflation is caused by things such as demand. When there is inflationary pressure it usually means the economy is humming along nicely. Sometimes you get things like wars, disasters that can cause supply shortages which in turn can cause hyper inflation which is the the type you don’t want to see.

    An economy where there is no inflation is in recession. If there is no inflation, there is no demand. If there is sustained deflationary pressure…. We’ll have to ask the people in the 1930’s what that was like, they called it the depression.

    If you make or sell an object and they fly off the shelf. Your going to raise your price, it’s human nature.
     


    Ser Im not talking about tomatos and coffee. I'm talking about the dollar vaule to $ETH, to $MATIC, to $BSC, to $FLOW, to $ENJ. These are the chains 99% of games run on.

    edit - alert warning warning
    @bcbully

    This is where all these claims against Crypto vs Fiat leave me confused. Every argument I ever read or hear completely ignores what currency was created for in the first place.
    Look up "charactoristics of sound money." 
    https://www.stlouisfed.org/education/economic-lowdown-podcast-series/episode-9-functions-of-money

    Look up "functions of money"
    https://www.vedantu.com/commerce/functions-of-money

     You might start to see "why". 

    Take it a step further go down the rabbit whole "history of money"

    Sorry can't link because site bug.



    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,990
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    Vrika said:
    Quizzical said:
    Needing to pay several hundred dollars to get started without knowing if you'll even like the game is not really compatible with the way that I've played games in the past.

    I'm not necessarily against games allowing players to sell things to each other, or even using NFTs to facilitate it.  I have no problem with EVE's PLEX system, for example, nor with analogous things in a number of other games.  I am against needing to pay hundreds of dollars to get started that you can't easily get refunded if you decide that the game is dumb and quit almost immediately.

    I'm also against the game being really just a pretext to host NFTs.  In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to be a good game that merely uses blockchain as a side feature.  Most of the blockchain games that I've seen present themselves as if blockchain and NFTs are the point of the game, and the game itself is an afterthought.

    ...

    In order for a blockchain game to be good, it needs to first be a good game.  Blockchain and NFTs have to merely be a side feature, and one of many side features.  If NFTs are the point of the game and everything else is built around NFTs, then the game is going to be garbage.
    I am quoting Quizzical because it directly addressed one of the issues that I feel is important, the cost of entry. As P2E games take off, they have quickly escalated the cost of entry, which eliminates many potential players. This is part of the reason that many have endorsed the scholarship approach, so a player can start playing with $0 upfront (the upfront cost is covered by someone else). However, this just delays the issue, as someone has to keep paying the upfront cost for the game to grow. With this approach, the best that we can hope for is a MLM type approach that brings in enough new players to keep the game going long term.

    This is why I expect someone to eventually apply a F2P model to the P2E approach. With these combined, you could easily add unlimited non earning accounts, with earning slowly growing as you add investment. This would allow for free players to enjoy the game, but for players that invest to earn some returns as well. It would still allow for investors to run scholarships for those that want to earn with no investment, but all of this would be done AFTER players are playing the game. I see this as the future for most online games.

    Oh, and for how this all began, the oldest game that I am aware of that has any variation of P2E was Project Entropia (now Entropia Universe)
    The high entry cost is intentional: Letting your members earn money can give you large influx of new members who pay high entry fee for the privilege of being able to earn in future. It's tried and tested method by pyramid schemers that those entry fees can exceed what you let your existing members earn and keep your operation profitable for quite a long time.

    Entropia Universe is a good example of how much people would earn if the game was built around idea of stable population instead of around the idea of entry fees being used to pay existing players.
    Regardless. You are being priced out right now. At this very moment. 

    It's better to pay that entry fee now (if there is a game you're interested in) than wait 6 months, a year.  Like it or not. 

    The value of fiat is falling at a scary pace. 
    Don’t let those boogeymen scare you. What your describing is inflation, what economists worry about more is deflation.

    Usually inflation is caused by things such as demand. When there is inflationary pressure it usually means the economy is humming along nicely. Sometimes you get things like wars, disasters that can cause supply shortages which in turn can cause hyper inflation which is the the type you don’t want to see.

    An economy where there is no inflation is in recession. If there is no inflation, there is no demand. If there is sustained deflationary pressure…. We’ll have to ask the people in the 1930’s what that was like, they called it the depression.

    If you make or sell an object and they fly off the shelf. Your going to raise your price, it’s human nature.
     


    Ser Im not talking about tomatos and coffee. I'm talking about the dollar vaule to $ETH, to $MATIC, to $BSC, to $FLOW, to $ENJ. These are the chains 99% of games run on.

    edit - alert warning warning
    @bcbully

    This is where all these claims against Crypto vs Fiat leave me confused. Every argument I ever read or hear completely ignores what currency was created for in the first place.
    Look up "charactoristics of sound money." 
    https://www.stlouisfed.org/education/economic-lowdown-podcast-series/episode-9-functions-of-money

    Look up "functions of money"
    https://www.vedantu.com/commerce/functions-of-money

     You might start to see "why". 

    Take it a step further go down the rabbit whole "history of money"

    Sorry can't link because site bug.



    When I purchase a 1.2 million dollar industrial laser from Germany, a 250k wire edm from Japan, a 300k press brake manufactured five miles away from my shop, I have to pay USD for those items. Even if the origin is my own country. Everything in the business world is based on USD.

    Why do you think that is?

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,990
    @bcbully

    Here’s another question for you and some more food for thought.

    Your country is by far the biggest economic power in the world. One of the he big reasons behind that is that the business world uses USD.

    What do you think is going to happen to the US economy if the business world decides to leave the USD?

    There are a lot of players fighting to make that happen. It will be good for some, not so good for others. I’m sure some will profit handsomely from it.

    Think about the answers to those two questions, think about the ramifications to your country no matter your political affiliation.

     Imho

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,042
    edited October 14
    laserit said:
    @bcbully

    Here’s another question for you and some more food for thought.

    Your country is by far the biggest economic power in the world. One of the he big reasons behind that is that the business world uses USD.

    What do you think is going to happen to the US economy if the business world decides to leave the USD?

    There are a lot of players fighting to make that happen. It will be good for some, not so good for others. I’m sure some will profit handsomely from it.

    Think about the answers to those two questions, think about the ramifications to your country no matter your political affiliation.

     Imho
    Yeah I know man. Loss of power and control. Inability to fund public services. Things will get reeeal expensive, chiefly war. Inflation like we've never could have imagined. Why do you think countries around the world are trying desprately to find ways to tax crypto currencies.

    It's not just an US issue. It's a IMF issue. Look up what they've been saying lately. 
    https://cryptoslate.com/new-imf-report-calls-crypto-a-threat-to-global-economy/



    Fyi We've seen this time and time again over the ages.

    Will the dollar die, no i don't think so. It's a stable median of exchange. Will you continue to have to add 0s to your bill. Yes without question.


    Post edited by bcbully on
    laserit
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,990
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    @bcbully

    Here’s another question for you and some more food for thought.

    Your country is by far the biggest economic power in the world. One of the he big reasons behind that is that the business world uses USD.

    What do you think is going to happen to the US economy if the business world decides to leave the USD?

    There are a lot of players fighting to make that happen. It will be good for some, not so good for others. I’m sure some will profit handsomely from it.

    Think about the answers to those two questions, think about the ramifications to your country no matter your political affiliation.

     Imho
    Yeah I know man. Loss of power and control. Inability to fund public services. Things will get reeeal expensive, chiefly war. Inflation like we've never could have imagined. Why do you think countries around the world are trying desprately to find ways to tax crypto currencies.

    It's not just an US issue. It's a IMF issue. Look up what they've been saying lately. 
    https://cryptoslate.com/new-imf-report-calls-crypto-a-threat-to-global-economy/



    Fyi We've seen this time and time again over the ages.

    Will the dollar die, no i don't think so. It's a stable median of exchange. Will you continue to have to add 0s to your bill. Yes without question.


    The reason the business world uses USD is real simple:

    It's the Safest, Most Stable and Most Reliable ***STANDARD*** that exists in the World today. Your country gets a great benefit from that fact.

    If the business world decides to leave the USD, its because that is no longer True. And if that is no longer true then  America has lost its place in the world.

    Imho

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,042
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    @bcbully

    Here’s another question for you and some more food for thought.

    Your country is by far the biggest economic power in the world. One of the he big reasons behind that is that the business world uses USD.

    What do you think is going to happen to the US economy if the business world decides to leave the USD?

    There are a lot of players fighting to make that happen. It will be good for some, not so good for others. I’m sure some will profit handsomely from it.

    Think about the answers to those two questions, think about the ramifications to your country no matter your political affiliation.

     Imho
    Yeah I know man. Loss of power and control. Inability to fund public services. Things will get reeeal expensive, chiefly war. Inflation like we've never could have imagined. Why do you think countries around the world are trying desprately to find ways to tax crypto currencies.

    It's not just an US issue. It's a IMF issue. Look up what they've been saying lately. 
    https://cryptoslate.com/new-imf-report-calls-crypto-a-threat-to-global-economy/



    Fyi We've seen this time and time again over the ages.

    Will the dollar die, no i don't think so. It's a stable median of exchange. Will you continue to have to add 0s to your bill. Yes without question.


    The reason the business world uses USD is real simple:

    It's the Safest, Most Stable and Most Reliable ***STANDARD*** that exists in the World today. Your country gets a great benefit from that fact.

    If the business world decides to leave the USD, its because that is no longer True. And if that is no longer true then  America has lost its place in the world.

    Imho
    Good thing america has the most Bitcoin and the most guns ;)
    laserit
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,990
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    @bcbully

    Here’s another question for you and some more food for thought.

    Your country is by far the biggest economic power in the world. One of the he big reasons behind that is that the business world uses USD.

    What do you think is going to happen to the US economy if the business world decides to leave the USD?

    There are a lot of players fighting to make that happen. It will be good for some, not so good for others. I’m sure some will profit handsomely from it.

    Think about the answers to those two questions, think about the ramifications to your country no matter your political affiliation.

     Imho
    Yeah I know man. Loss of power and control. Inability to fund public services. Things will get reeeal expensive, chiefly war. Inflation like we've never could have imagined. Why do you think countries around the world are trying desprately to find ways to tax crypto currencies.

    It's not just an US issue. It's a IMF issue. Look up what they've been saying lately. 
    https://cryptoslate.com/new-imf-report-calls-crypto-a-threat-to-global-economy/



    Fyi We've seen this time and time again over the ages.

    Will the dollar die, no i don't think so. It's a stable median of exchange. Will you continue to have to add 0s to your bill. Yes without question.


    The reason the business world uses USD is real simple:

    It's the Safest, Most Stable and Most Reliable ***STANDARD*** that exists in the World today. Your country gets a great benefit from that fact.

    If the business world decides to leave the USD, its because that is no longer True. And if that is no longer true then  America has lost its place in the world.

    Imho
    Good thing america has the most Bitcoin and the most guns ;)
    As your friend and neighbor who who has loved America since I could speak the words and being also joined to the hip no matter what happens.

    Sometimes I'd like to shake you guys by the shoulders and say WTFU and talk to each other.
    bcbully

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 23,658

    This is why I expect someone to eventually apply a F2P model to the P2E approach. With these combined, you could easily add unlimited non earning accounts, with earning slowly growing as you add investment. This would allow for free players to enjoy the game, but for players that invest to earn some returns as well. It would still allow for investors to run scholarships for those that want to earn with no investment, but all of this would be done AFTER players are playing the game. I see this as the future for most online games.

    Oh, and for how this all began, the oldest game that I am aware of that has any variation of P2E was Project Entropia (now Entropia Universe)
    The problem is that a free to play Ponzi scheme doesn't work.  Why can you sell axies for so much money?  Because people have to pay a lot of money to get them in order to play the game!  Without the big buy-in for players trying to get good axies so that they can make money themselves, who will buy the axies that people are trying to sell?
    laserit
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,990
    Quizzical said:

    This is why I expect someone to eventually apply a F2P model to the P2E approach. With these combined, you could easily add unlimited non earning accounts, with earning slowly growing as you add investment. This would allow for free players to enjoy the game, but for players that invest to earn some returns as well. It would still allow for investors to run scholarships for those that want to earn with no investment, but all of this would be done AFTER players are playing the game. I see this as the future for most online games.

    Oh, and for how this all began, the oldest game that I am aware of that has any variation of P2E was Project Entropia (now Entropia Universe)
    The problem is that a free to play Ponzi scheme doesn't work.  Why can you sell axies for so much money?  Because people have to pay a lot of money to get them in order to play the game!  Without the big buy-in for players trying to get good axies so that they can make money themselves, who will buy the axies that people are trying to sell?
    It's all about creating the desire.

    Nobody needs a Ferrari, people want one. 
    bcbully

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,042
    edited October 14
    Quizzical said:

    This is why I expect someone to eventually apply a F2P model to the P2E approach. With these combined, you could easily add unlimited non earning accounts, with earning slowly growing as you add investment. This would allow for free players to enjoy the game, but for players that invest to earn some returns as well. It would still allow for investors to run scholarships for those that want to earn with no investment, but all of this would be done AFTER players are playing the game. I see this as the future for most online games.

    Oh, and for how this all began, the oldest game that I am aware of that has any variation of P2E was Project Entropia (now Entropia Universe)
    The problem is that a free to play Ponzi scheme doesn't work.  Why can you sell axies for so much money?  Because people have to pay a lot of money to get them in order to play the game!  Without the big buy-in for players trying to get good axies so that they can make money themselves, who will buy the axies that people are trying to sell?

    Revenue streams of the game:

    • Breeding will cost AXS and SLP tokens. AXS will be collected to the Treasury as revenue, and SLP will be burnt. More than 85% revenue of the game is generated from breeding activities. 
    • Marketplace fee: Axie takes a 4.5% fee for every transaction in the marketplace.
    • Other revenue streams are selling lands, stickers, entry prices for tournaments, marketing, etc.

    How the game captures value for AXS token:

    • AXS stakers have certain rights in Axie’s Governance
    • Receive 5% of the game’s revenue
    • Staking incentive
    • Breeding leads to high demand for AXS
    https://forum.buni.finance/t/some-takeaways-from-axie-and-cryptoblades-tokenomic/129#revenue-streams-of-the-game-4

    People like to breed.  People buying $axie to breed with SLP. That creates the demand. That's why the price rises. Thats why those critters are so damn expensive. Doesn't look like a pozi to me man. Looks like the exact opposite in fact, geez. People like playing the game. 

    If ever you want to learn how a project works, look up ______ Tokenomics. Idk why I never looked at axies lol. Guess I never cared enought to. I'm kinda blown away at this moment.
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 23,658
    bcbully said:
    Quizzical said:

    This is why I expect someone to eventually apply a F2P model to the P2E approach. With these combined, you could easily add unlimited non earning accounts, with earning slowly growing as you add investment. This would allow for free players to enjoy the game, but for players that invest to earn some returns as well. It would still allow for investors to run scholarships for those that want to earn with no investment, but all of this would be done AFTER players are playing the game. I see this as the future for most online games.

    Oh, and for how this all began, the oldest game that I am aware of that has any variation of P2E was Project Entropia (now Entropia Universe)
    The problem is that a free to play Ponzi scheme doesn't work.  Why can you sell axies for so much money?  Because people have to pay a lot of money to get them in order to play the game!  Without the big buy-in for players trying to get good axies so that they can make money themselves, who will buy the axies that people are trying to sell?

    Revenue streams of the game:

    • Breeding will cost AXS and SLP tokens. AXS will be collected to the Treasury as revenue, and SLP will be burnt. More than 85% revenue of the game is generated from breeding activities. 
    • Marketplace fee: Axie takes a 4.5% fee for every transaction in the marketplace.
    • Other revenue streams are selling lands, stickers, entry prices for tournaments, marketing, etc.

    How the game captures value for AXS token:

    • AXS stakers have certain rights in Axie’s Governance
    • Receive 5% of the game’s revenue
    • Staking incentive
    • Breeding leads to high demand for AXS
    https://forum.buni.finance/t/some-takeaways-from-axie-and-cryptoblades-tokenomic/129#revenue-streams-of-the-game-4

    People like to breed.  People buying $axie to breed with SLP. That creates the demand. That's why the price rises. Thats why those critters are so damn expensive. Doesn't look like a pozi to me man. Looks like the exact opposite in fact, geez. People like playing the game. 

    If ever you want to learn how a project works, look up ______ Tokenomics. Idk why I never looked at axies lol. Guess I never cared enought to. I'm kinda blown away at this moment.
    And do you really think that so many people would pour thousands of dollars into a game for which the game part of the game is so pathetic that the official site won't even tell you what it is if not for the prospect of making back a lot more money than they put into it?

    Then again, the success of some awful mobile games at getting whales to drop ridiculous amounts of money does suggest that it's plausible.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,042
    Quizzical said:
    bcbully said:
    Quizzical said:

    This is why I expect someone to eventually apply a F2P model to the P2E approach. With these combined, you could easily add unlimited non earning accounts, with earning slowly growing as you add investment. This would allow for free players to enjoy the game, but for players that invest to earn some returns as well. It would still allow for investors to run scholarships for those that want to earn with no investment, but all of this would be done AFTER players are playing the game. I see this as the future for most online games.

    Oh, and for how this all began, the oldest game that I am aware of that has any variation of P2E was Project Entropia (now Entropia Universe)
    The problem is that a free to play Ponzi scheme doesn't work.  Why can you sell axies for so much money?  Because people have to pay a lot of money to get them in order to play the game!  Without the big buy-in for players trying to get good axies so that they can make money themselves, who will buy the axies that people are trying to sell?

    Revenue streams of the game:

    • Breeding will cost AXS and SLP tokens. AXS will be collected to the Treasury as revenue, and SLP will be burnt. More than 85% revenue of the game is generated from breeding activities. 
    • Marketplace fee: Axie takes a 4.5% fee for every transaction in the marketplace.
    • Other revenue streams are selling lands, stickers, entry prices for tournaments, marketing, etc.

    How the game captures value for AXS token:

    • AXS stakers have certain rights in Axie’s Governance
    • Receive 5% of the game’s revenue
    • Staking incentive
    • Breeding leads to high demand for AXS
    https://forum.buni.finance/t/some-takeaways-from-axie-and-cryptoblades-tokenomic/129#revenue-streams-of-the-game-4

    People like to breed.  People buying $axie to breed with SLP. That creates the demand. That's why the price rises. Thats why those critters are so damn expensive. Doesn't look like a pozi to me man. Looks like the exact opposite in fact, geez. People like playing the game. 

    If ever you want to learn how a project works, look up ______ Tokenomics. Idk why I never looked at axies lol. Guess I never cared enought to. I'm kinda blown away at this moment.
    And do you really think that so many people would pour thousands of dollars into a game for which the game part of the game is so pathetic that the official site won't even tell you what it is if not for the prospect of making back a lot more money than they put into it?

    Then again, the success of some awful mobile games at getting whales to drop ridiculous amounts of money does suggest that it's plausible.
    Quizz I started to make a long post. I came at you a bit in the end. I deleted it. I don't see the need.






    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 6,394
    laserit said:
    bcbully said:
    laserit said:
    @bcbully

    Here’s another question for you and some more food for thought.

    Your country is by far the biggest economic power in the world. One of the he big reasons behind that is that the business world uses USD.

    What do you think is going to happen to the US economy if the business world decides to leave the USD?

    There are a lot of players fighting to make that happen. It will be good for some, not so good for others. I’m sure some will profit handsomely from it.

    Think about the answers to those two questions, think about the ramifications to your country no matter your political affiliation.

     Imho
    Yeah I know man. Loss of power and control. Inability to fund public services. Things will get reeeal expensive, chiefly war. Inflation like we've never could have imagined. Why do you think countries around the world are trying desprately to find ways to tax crypto currencies.

    It's not just an US issue. It's a IMF issue. Look up what they've been saying lately. 
    https://cryptoslate.com/new-imf-report-calls-crypto-a-threat-to-global-economy/



    Fyi We've seen this time and time again over the ages.

    Will the dollar die, no i don't think so. It's a stable median of exchange. Will you continue to have to add 0s to your bill. Yes without question.


    The reason the business world uses USD is real simple:

    It's the Safest, Most Stable and Most Reliable ***STANDARD*** that exists in the World today. Your country gets a great benefit from that fact.

    If the business world decides to leave the USD, its because that is no longer True. And if that is no longer true then  America has lost its place in the world.

    Imho
    My understanding was because America was a military super power, and we demanded that we be the king shits, or we would not play ball with the rest of the world, that is one of the ways America got sucked into playing World Police. 

    To be honest, I am in fact looking forward to when the Chinese Yuan takes over, or something else. 
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

    I'm Famous! Slapshot has Me in his Signature. Check it out!
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 7,128
    bcbully said:

    Revenue streams of the game:
    • Breeding will cost AXS and SLP tokens. AXS will be collected to the Treasury as revenue, and SLP will be burnt. More than 85% revenue of the game is generated from breeding activities. 
    • Marketplace fee: Axie takes a 4.5% fee for every transaction in the marketplace.
    • Other revenue streams are selling lands, stickers, entry prices for tournaments, marketing, etc.
    So in other words more than 85% of revenue comes from people creating new axie and then some additional revenue as the creator sells that axie to buyer.

    That's the one-time revenue for buying the axie you want. After that you can earn as long as there are enough newcomers buying new axie to fund the income of old players who already own theirs.
     
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