China just made all transactions in bitcoin/crypto illegal+unenforceable

bcbully

Scot said:

One for you to consider:

In the earliest days of coinage kings did not create the coins, precious metals were stamped with the signet of someone who was respected, it created more trust in the weight and purity of the metal. At some stage the chieftain/king saw the value in this and took on the mantle of sole currency supplier.

Current cryptocurrency could be at this stage, a now proven concept that has "kings" eyeing the landscape. What will happen if every country decides to issue its own crypto, there are a few who already had one before China? Will the "independents" be able to survive when most countries have their own crypto?

Every country will eventual issue it's on CBDC (Central Bank Digital Currency.) CBDCs are fiat currencys. They are back by the issuing countries currency.  

Soon it appears the United States will be issuing a US Dollar Coin (Stable Coin) complete with national payment rails. Digital currencies are far more capital efficiencient.

https://www.reuters.com/business/fed-release-paper-central-bank-digital-currency-soon-powell-says-2021-09-22/

These digital (crypto) currencies will have the exact same characteristics and same problems as fiat. 

Bitcoin may well be on its way to becoming the worlds currency reserve. 1 bitcoin is 1 bitcoin for always and forever, everywhere in the world.

Dattelis

Unfortunately, to me China feels more like a cult rather than a country. I kind of agree with limiting game time for minors given how predatory games have become over the years, but some other things are really questionable at best.

bcbully

This why

Kyleran

bcbully said:

This why

Which is why most government's will strenuously resist cryptocurrency since they don't have a license to add to or reduce the supply at their whims, which is sort of a cornerstone of their monetary policies.

Will be interesting to see who prevails.

Vrika

Kyleran said:

bcbully said:

This why

Which is why most government's will strenuously resist cryptocurrency since they don't have a license to add to or reduce the supply at their whims, which is sort of a cornerstone of their monetary policies.

Will be interesting to see who prevails.

What we know is that Bitcoin won't prevail in that kind of of competition: It can't handle the number of transactions. It's more of a speculative investment rather than something that could be used for massive amounts of payments.

That doesn't mean some other crypto currency in the future couldn't handle. It's possible to make a cryptocurrency that could handle it, we just know that Bitcoin can't.

bcbully

Vrika said:

Kyleran said:

bcbully said:

This why

Which is why most government's will strenuously resist cryptocurrency since they don't have a license to add to or reduce the supply at their whims, which is sort of a cornerstone of their monetary policies.

Will be interesting to see who prevails.

What we know is that Bitcoin won't prevail in that kind of of competition: It can't handle the number of transactions. It's more of a speculative investment rather than something that could be used for massive amounts of payments.

That doesn't mean some other crypto currency in the future couldn't handle. It's possible to make a cryptocurrency that could handle it, we just know that Bitcoin can't. 

It can, it is, and it has been. 123 million, over 24 hours, moved instantly for 0.000421c per transation. No bank, no government or third party, permissionless.
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/bitcoin-lightning-network-channel-capacity-hits-another-all-time-high-2021-09-23

Micro payments
https://decrypt.co/81776/new-channels-nodes-lightning-network-up-20-after-twitter-integration

Things are escalating very quickly

bcbully

Stizzled said:

bcbully said:

This why

Is there somewhere that shows the value of cryptocurrencies that's not in a government issued and backed currency?

Just curious what the value of Bitcoin will be once it has completely devalued fiat currency.

https://www.binance.com/ Click trade from the drop down
On the right below search you will see BTC click it  you will see all coins  as  BTC trading pairs.

Trading pairs are how all things are valued

Vrika

bcbully said:

Vrika said:

Kyleran said:

bcbully said:

This why

Which is why most government's will strenuously resist cryptocurrency since they don't have a license to add to or reduce the supply at their whims, which is sort of a cornerstone of their monetary policies.

Will be interesting to see who prevails.

What we know is that Bitcoin won't prevail in that kind of of competition: It can't handle the number of transactions. It's more of a speculative investment rather than something that could be used for massive amounts of payments.

That doesn't mean some other crypto currency in the future couldn't handle. It's possible to make a cryptocurrency that could handle it, we just know that Bitcoin can't. 

It can, it is, and it has been. 123 million, over 24 hours, moved instantly for 0.000421c per transation. No bank, no government or third party, permissionless.
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/bitcoin-lightning-network-channel-capacity-hits-another-all-time-high-2021-09-23

Micro payments
https://decrypt.co/81776/new-channels-nodes-lightning-network-up-20-after-twitter-integration

Things are escalating very quickly

First: That's not done with Bitcoin, it's done in a separate layer where Bitcoin owners get cash for that layer 2 network while the actual bitcoins aren't moved. Of course it works if you don't move actual bitcoins. You could even move USD instead with some kind of agreement that it's later possible to convert those USD into Bitcoin.

Second: You failed to post the number of transactions. Moving large amounts of money is not issue with Bitcoin base layer. The issue in number of transactions.

bcbully

Vrika said:

bcbully said:

Vrika said:

Kyleran said:

bcbully said:

This why

Which is why most government's will strenuously resist cryptocurrency since they don't have a license to add to or reduce the supply at their whims, which is sort of a cornerstone of their monetary policies.

Will be interesting to see who prevails.

What we know is that Bitcoin won't prevail in that kind of of competition: It can't handle the number of transactions. It's more of a speculative investment rather than something that could be used for massive amounts of payments.

That doesn't mean some other crypto currency in the future couldn't handle. It's possible to make a cryptocurrency that could handle it, we just know that Bitcoin can't. 

It can, it is, and it has been. 123 million, over 24 hours, moved instantly for 0.000421c per transation. No bank, no government or third party, permissionless.
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/bitcoin-lightning-network-channel-capacity-hits-another-all-time-high-2021-09-23

Micro payments
https://decrypt.co/81776/new-channels-nodes-lightning-network-up-20-after-twitter-integration

Things are escalating very quickly

First: That's not done with Bitcoin, it's done in a separate layer where Bitcoin owners get cash for that layer 2 network while the actual bitcoins aren't moved. Of course it works if you don't move actual bitcoins. You could even move USD instead with some kind of agreement that it's later possible to convert those USD into Bitcoin.

Second: You failed to post the number of transactions. Moving large amounts of money is not issue with Bitcoin base layer. The issue in number of transactions.

The coins are moved sir. That's the point. Channels are the links between parties. How mant times they transact between each other is private. As of this moment there are 73k channels. Up 8% from yesterday. Up 30% over the last 3 days.

Real time stats.
https://1ml.com/statistics

bcbully

https://www.occ.gov/news-issuances/news-releases/2021/nr-occ-2021-2.html

A bit of info regarding the direction of US finance. Etherium.

More percise capture and store of value than any asset on their books.
More liquid than any asset on their books.
True easily aduditable revenue generation via fees from validation and liquidity provision.

Capital efficiency will always win out.

Vrika

bcbully said:

https://www.occ.gov/news-issuances/news-releases/2021/nr-occ-2021-2.html

A bit of info regarding the direction of US finance. Etherium.

More percise capture and store of value than any asset on their books.
More liquid than any asset on their books.
True easily aduditable revenue generation via fees from validation and liquidity provision.

Capital efficiency will always win out.

Source?

Practically none of what you wrote is in the webpage you linked. 

Kyleran

Vrika said:

bcbully said:

https://www.occ.gov/news-issuances/news-releases/2021/nr-occ-2021-2.html

A bit of info regarding the direction of US finance. Etherium.

More percise capture and store of value than any asset on their books.
More liquid than any asset on their books.
True easily aduditable revenue generation via fees from validation and liquidity provision.

Capital efficiency will always win out.

Source?

Practically none of what you wrote is in the webpage you linked. 

I don't think BcBully understands the implications of the OCC directive which supports stable crypto like ETH or the Yuan and not ones such as Bitcoin.

The directive is all about the banking industry be told to apply the same know your customer, risk and compliance due diligence to stable cryptos it does with other currencies today.

He tends to read into these sources far more than what is actually stated in them, well, at I am unable to find direct quotes which support his assertions tied to them.

The real thrust of the directive reads like this "clarifying national banks’ and federal savings associations’ authority to participate in independent node verification networks (INVN) and use stablecoins to conduct payment activities and other bank-permissible functions."

It also appears the OCC is supporting such seeing as other countries are furiously building out real time payment networks while the US is lagging way behind.

"Engaging in INVN within the federal banking system may enhance the efficiency, effectiveness, and stability of payments activities and achieve the benefits of real-time payments already enjoyed in other countries."

“While governments in other countries have built real-time payments systems, the United States has relied on our innovation sector to deliver real-time payments technologies. Some of those technologies are built and managed by bank consortia and some are based on independent node verification networks such as blockchains,” 

So basically US is behind and hoping this tech will fix everything.

bcbully

Kyleran said:

Vrika said:

bcbully said:

https://www.occ.gov/news-issuances/news-releases/2021/nr-occ-2021-2.html

A bit of info regarding the direction of US finance. Etherium.

More percise capture and store of value than any asset on their books.
More liquid than any asset on their books.
True easily aduditable revenue generation via fees from validation and liquidity provision.

Capital efficiency will always win out.

Source?

Practically none of what you wrote is in the webpage you linked. 

I don't think BcBully understands the implications of the OCC directive which supports stable crypto like ETH or the Yuan and not ones such as Bitcoin.

The directive is all about the banking industry be told to apply the same know your customer, risk and compliance due diligence to stable cryptos it does with other currencies today.

He tends to read into these sources far more than what is actually stated in them, well, at I am unable to find direct quotes which support his assertions tied to them.

The real thrust of the directive reads like this "clarifying national banks’ and federal savings associations’ authority to participate in independent node verification networks (INVN) and use stablecoins to conduct payment activities and other bank-permissible functions."

It also appears the OCC is supporting such seeing as other countries are furiously building out real time payment networks while the US is lagging way behind.

"Engaging in INVN within the federal banking system may enhance the efficiency, effectiveness, and stability of payments activities and achieve the benefits of real-time payments already enjoyed in other countries."

“While governments in other countries have built real-time payments systems, the United States has relied on our innovation sector to deliver real-time payments technologies. Some of those technologies are built and managed by bank consortia and some are based on independent node verification networks such as blockchains,” 

So basically US is behind and hoping this tech will fix everything.

Nah I didn't read more into. The underlying take away is these systems, nodes, validators are being built on etherium.

The nodes are being used as stated and for the reasoons above. It is what it is. That's all.

Why the link about OCC is important is because you see the regulations being formed on how to do so.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/currencies/ether-price-ethereum-network-european-investment-bank-jpmorgan-ubs-2021-4

This has been happening for years now.
https://fortune.com/2017/02/28/ethereum-jpmorgan-microsoft-alliance/

edit- ETH is not stable. It's gas, fuel for the Etherium Network. Stablecoins are predominantly ERC-20 tokens that are minted on the Etherium Network. 

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Scot

Wargfoot said:

If the US Govt. gets the sense that crypto is a threat to the US Dollar they'll ban it here as well.  We can stop pretending that China is unique in its sense of self preservation - we've been pretty draconian over here at times as well.

I have to say I think this is possibly the least draconian thing they have done, small fry really. From ignoring questions about building hundreds of coal power stations to putting a soldier in every home of an ethnic group you regard as suspicious is what really puts the Chinese dragon into draconian.

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laserit

I'm a business man. I manufacture, I purchase machinery on a regular basis that ranges from a 30k to 1.6m. All these transactions are done in USD. Why?

***Stability***

The business world isn't ready for Crypto. The black market loves it I'm sure, I don't know about the rest of you but I'm inundated everyday with people trying to scam with ransoms to be payed in Crypto.

Maybe one day Crypto won't be Creepy

bcbully

Wargfoot said:

If the US Govt. gets the sense that crypto is a threat to the US Dollar they'll ban it here as well.  We can stop pretending that China is unique in its sense of self preservation - we've been pretty draconian over here at times as well.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/crypto-is-impossible-to-destroy-says-tesla-ceo-elon-musk

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/first-etf-combining-bitcoin-and-ethereum-launches-in-canada-145811246.html

bcbully

laserit said:

I'm a business man. I manufacture, I purchase machinery on a regular basis that ranges from a 30k to 1.6m. All these transactions are done in USD. Why?

***Stability***

The business world isn't ready for Crypto. The black market loves it I'm sure, I don't know about the rest of you but I'm inundated everyday with people trying to scam with ransoms to be payed in Crypto.

Maybe one day Crypto won't be Creepy

Million dollar purchases for industrial equipment using, say either, nah I haven't seen anything like that. That would be a waste when that money could be used to set up a node and become a validator securing the chain and generating revenue. Billion dollar purchases of all other things with stable coins, all the time. 

In your case instead of cash laying around as fiat. If converted to USDC, a 110% backed stable coin, you could earn 5-8% intrest and even borrow against it without any appoval from anyone. No bank, no paper work, instantly. 

laserit

bcbully said:

laserit said:

I'm a business man. I manufacture, I purchase machinery on a regular basis that ranges from a 30k to 1.6m. All these transactions are done in USD. Why?

***Stability***

The business world isn't ready for Crypto. The black market loves it I'm sure, I don't know about the rest of you but I'm inundated everyday with people trying to scam with ransoms to be payed in Crypto.

Maybe one day Crypto won't be Creepy

Million dollar purchases for industrial equipment using, say either, nah I haven't seen anything like that. That would be a waste when that money could be used to set up a node and become a validator securing the chain and generating revenue. Billion dollar purchases of all other things with stable coins, all the time. 

In your case instead of cash laying around as fiat. If converted to USDC, a 110% backed stable coin, you could earn 5-8% intrest and even borrow against it without any appoval from anyone. No bank, no paper work, instantly. 

Well.... 

What would you have to spend all that easy money on if it wasn't for people like me investing in things like machinery to make products for you to buy.

I think people in general lose sight of the basics.

Or would you like to just forget about it and put complete trust into places like China to supply all of our physical consumer needs?

We ignore it at our own peril.

What's everybody doing with all that killer money their making? If you've been paying attention to all the marketing... Lifes a party  

bcbully

laserit said:

bcbully said:

laserit said:

I'm a business man. I manufacture, I purchase machinery on a regular basis that ranges from a 30k to 1.6m. All these transactions are done in USD. Why?

***Stability***

The business world isn't ready for Crypto. The black market loves it I'm sure, I don't know about the rest of you but I'm inundated everyday with people trying to scam with ransoms to be payed in Crypto.

Maybe one day Crypto won't be Creepy

Million dollar purchases for industrial equipment using, say either, nah I haven't seen anything like that. That would be a waste when that money could be used to set up a node and become a validator securing the chain and generating revenue. Billion dollar purchases of all other things with stable coins, all the time. 

In your case instead of cash laying around as fiat. If converted to USDC, a 110% backed stable coin, you could earn 5-8% intrest and even borrow against it without any appoval from anyone. No bank, no paper work, instantly. 

Well.... 

What would you have to spend all that easy money on if it wasn't for people like me investing in things like machinery to make products for you to buy.

I think people in general lose sight of the basics.

Or would you like to just forget about it and put complete trust into places like China to supply all of our physical consumer needs?

We ignore it at our own peril.

What's everybody doing with all that killer money their making? If you've been paying attention to all the marketing... Lifes a party  

Man you are what this country needs. Thank you. When I said "a waste" not the buying of equipment. Just the buying of the equipment at this time in ETH. Now if  a portion of your revenue was converted to USDC you could earn off that USDC until it was time to pay bills and/or buy more equipment. 

This is certainly not finacial advice, just what's out there. Do your own research, talk to an advisor. You might be surprised at how non-creepy this all is.

Theocritus

Wargfoot said:

If the US Govt. gets the sense that crypto is a threat to the US Dollar they'll ban it here as well.  We can stop pretending that China is unique in its sense of self preservation - we've been pretty draconian over here at times as well.

Unless of course the people making the laws are heavily invested in it themselves.......

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