Full Loot PvP Question.

AlBQuirky

How many PvP'ers here would attack a higher level/better equipped PC?  (For "the challenge")

Scot

That's not part of their strategy at all is is? I only play faction based (Planetside) or zoned (ESO) in MMOs myself but others can speak up for the love of having their pants nicked.

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Theocritus

I guess it depends on what the reward is for beating him.....If there is no incentive (which there usually isn't), then there is no reason to do it......Most of the time PVP is about dominance, not about competition.

Sovrath

AlBQuirky said:

How many PvP'ers here would attack a higher level/better equipped PC?  (For "the challenge")

Sure, I did it all the time in Lineage 2.

Also Aion.

The thing is, I need a reason to attack such as being at war or a different faction. If someone is just standing there are in a hunting spot I don't really feel the need to attakc them.

Just not wired that way.

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Slapshot1188

AlBQuirky said:

How many PvP'ers here would attack a higher level/better equipped PC?  (For "the challenge")

Alone?  Heck.. I almost NEVER attack a PC alone... higher, lower, same level...   Even if I was in a group we generally don't jump on lone guys, but sometimes, depending on the game and how much we "hate" the enemies. 

Now if we came across another similar sized group then we would jump in.. no matter if they were higher, lower or in between.

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cameltosis

AlBQuirky said:

How many PvP'ers here would attack a higher level/better equipped PC?  (For "the challenge")

I havent played a full loot PvP MMORPG before, so I cant answer from direct experience because I've never had to factor in losing my stuff.

However, I've certainly been in many situations where I've been given an opportunity to 1v1 someone higher level than myself. There are basically 3 questions I ask myself in that situation:

1) Do I stand a chance of winning?

2) Do I think it would be a fun fight?

3) Do I have any roleplaying reasons to attack?

If the answer to any of those questions is "yes", then I'll attack. The first two questions are usually pretty easy to assess, based off gear, level and class. The last question is more ephemeral. For example, if I am playing an orc or a dwarf, I will usually go out of my way to kill dwarves and orcs (whatever the opposite of my class is). Likewise, if I see an enemy with whom I have a rivalry, I'll try to attack them even if I know I'll lose. Same sort of things with enemy raid leaders, if I see them by themselves trying to return to their group, I'll attack without a second thought.

I know it always sounds odd when I say it, but PvP really does give me way more roleplaying opportunities than anything I ever experienced in PvE! Its just the roleplaying takes the form of actions, rather than words.

Ungood

AlBQuirky said:

How many PvP'ers here would attack a higher level/better equipped PC?  (For "the challenge")

Depends on the game, and how they set it up.

Case in point, Eternal Crusade, which IMHO, was a great PvP game, (if not one of the best PvP games) plagued by really bad management, Oh HELL YAH! 

Lets go down MF'er, I don't care if you are a 6th level Elite with a power claw and 'Evy Armor, and I am wearing noob shit with my chain sword.. it's ON!

In pretty much any other PvP game.. yah.. fuck that.

Vermillion_Raventhal

My opinion is that there shouldn't be outrageous power gaps in PvP unless it is skill based.  

Scorchien

I do it all the time across many games .. Fun stuff .. Win/Lose or just put the fear in them .. Always fun ..

But then again , i dont care about pixels ..

  I dont care about dying , or losing stuff .. They are pixels after all , Its not like someone stole your car or killed your dog ..

 Never could wrap my mind around why people get upset at dying or losing stuff in a game ..

 Weird in my eyes

Ungood

Scorchien said:

I do it all the time across many games .. Fun stuff .. Win/Lose or just put the fear in them .. Always fun ..

But then again , i dont care about pixels ..

  I dont care about dying , or losing stuff .. They are pixels after all , Its not like someone stole your car or killed your dog ..

 Never could wrap my mind around why people get upset at dying or losing stuff in a game ..

 Weird in my eyes

This has always been a wired stand to me.

I mean if you don't care about the pixels (game), why even play? Why not invest that time into something that does matter to you, after all, that is the breaths of your life you are giving up to do that.. why not use them to invest in something you care about.

That would be like someone who has a hobby making model cars telling me they don't care about model cars... Why the fuck are you wasting time on it then if you sincerely do not care about it?

I mean, I am sure there are some people who only enjoy making the model car, and then once done, just throw it away, or set it on fire, as it has no value to them anymore, but I don't understand that mindset.

Sovrath

Scorchien said:

I do it all the time across many games .. Fun stuff .. Win/Lose or just put the fear in them .. Always fun ..

But then again , i dont care about pixels ..

  I dont care about dying , or losing stuff .. They are pixels after all , Its not like someone stole your car or killed your dog ..

 Never could wrap my mind around why people get upset at dying or losing stuff in a game ..

 Weird in my eyes

Of course you care. If you didn't you wouldn't be playing. I think the takeaway is that you put it in perspective.

It's a game. It's played to have fun. Players should only be playing games where they can accept the rules OR at least be able to tolerate the rules.

You losing or gaining anything doesn't make you a better or lesser person.

And in a game where you can lose items or levels or "whatever" if you do lose these things, nothing is really taken away from you in actual life.

or pretty much what Ungood said.

Scorchien

Sovrath said:

Scorchien said:

I do it all the time across many games .. Fun stuff .. Win/Lose or just put the fear in them .. Always fun ..

But then again , i dont care about pixels ..

  I dont care about dying , or losing stuff .. They are pixels after all , Its not like someone stole your car or killed your dog ..

 Never could wrap my mind around why people get upset at dying or losing stuff in a game ..

 Weird in my eyes

Of course you care. If you didn't you wouldn't be playing. I think the takeaway is that you put it in perspective.

It's a game. It's played to have fun. Players should only be playing games where they can accept the rules OR at least be able to tolerate the rules.

You losing or gaining anything doesn't make you a better or lesser person.

And in a game where you can lose items or levels or "whatever" if you do lose these things, nothing is really taken away from you in actual life.

or pretty much what Ungood said.

Lol .. no i really dont care ,I play because its fun ..  (weird huh).. Ive lost many things in UO for example over the years some very good stuff..

   So ohh my what do i do .. Erhmm now i have to actually play the game more to replace it wether farming or crafting .. Its what is signed up to do in the first place , So now i get to do more of what i enjoy and signed up for in the first place ..

  .. Kill Mobs get loot have fun .. Really makes no difference to me at all if i die and lose items or Karma etc ..

 

  I have fun regaining those things .. as well as losing them .. or not ..:)

Brainy

What am I going to lose?  If the answer is not much, then sure, lets do this.  If I am going to lose many hours of my time, yeah probably a pass.

Scorchien

Ungood said:

Scorchien said:

I do it all the time across many games .. Fun stuff .. Win/Lose or just put the fear in them .. Always fun ..

But then again , i dont care about pixels ..

  I dont care about dying , or losing stuff .. They are pixels after all , Its not like someone stole your car or killed your dog ..

 Never could wrap my mind around why people get upset at dying or losing stuff in a game ..

 Weird in my eyes

This has always been a wired stand to me.

I mean if you don't care about the pixels (game), why even play? Why not invest that time into something that does matter to you, after all, that is the breaths of your life you are giving up to do that.. why not use them to invest in something you care about.

That would be like someone who has a hobby making model cars telling me they don't care about model cars... Why the fuck are you wasting time on it then if you sincerely do not care about it?

I mean, I am sure there are some people who only enjoy making the model car, and then once done, just throw it away, or set it on fire, as it has no value to them anymore, but I don't understand that mindset.

umm the games are fun .. It does not mean i need to become emotionally attached to pixels .(like a Bow for ex..). Can have fun playing with out that ..

Slapshot1188

Scorchien said:

Ungood said:

Scorchien said:

I do it all the time across many games .. Fun stuff .. Win/Lose or just put the fear in them .. Always fun ..

But then again , i dont care about pixels ..

  I dont care about dying , or losing stuff .. They are pixels after all , Its not like someone stole your car or killed your dog ..

 Never could wrap my mind around why people get upset at dying or losing stuff in a game ..

 Weird in my eyes

This has always been a wired stand to me.

I mean if you don't care about the pixels (game), why even play? Why not invest that time into something that does matter to you, after all, that is the breaths of your life you are giving up to do that.. why not use them to invest in something you care about.

That would be like someone who has a hobby making model cars telling me they don't care about model cars... Why the fuck are you wasting time on it then if you sincerely do not care about it?

I mean, I am sure there are some people who only enjoy making the model car, and then once done, just throw it away, or set it on fire, as it has no value to them anymore, but I don't understand that mindset.

umm the games are fun .. It does not mean i need to become emotionally attached to pixels .. Can have fun playing with out that ..

I play to have fun with friends.  Some of the most fun times have been when things have gone... poorly.

Sovrath

Scorchien said:

Sovrath said:

Scorchien said:

I do it all the time across many games .. Fun stuff .. Win/Lose or just put the fear in them .. Always fun ..

But then again , i dont care about pixels ..

  I dont care about dying , or losing stuff .. They are pixels after all , Its not like someone stole your car or killed your dog ..

 Never could wrap my mind around why people get upset at dying or losing stuff in a game ..

 Weird in my eyes

Of course you care. If you didn't you wouldn't be playing. I think the takeaway is that you put it in perspective.

It's a game. It's played to have fun. Players should only be playing games where they can accept the rules OR at least be able to tolerate the rules.

You losing or gaining anything doesn't make you a better or lesser person.

And in a game where you can lose items or levels or "whatever" if you do lose these things, nothing is really taken away from you in actual life.

or pretty much what Ungood said.

Lol .. no i really dont care ,I play because its fun ..  (weird huh).. Ive lost many things in UO for example over the years some very good stuff..

   So ohh my what do i do .. Erhmm now i have to actually play the game more to replace it wether farming or crafting .. Its what is signed up to do in the first place , So now i get to do more of what i enjoy and signed up for in the first place ..

  .. Kill Mobs get loot have fun .. Really makes no difference to me at all if i die and lose items or Karma etc ..

 

  I have fun regaining those things .. as well as losing them .. or not ..:)

But that's what I mean, you are having fun. There is a certain emotional, um ... I don't know, "energy" or investment" to having fun.

If you didn't care you wouldn't be doing it. You care to be engaged, you care to have fun, you care to have a good experience.

Do you care if you lose stuff in a game? I would say no. Because it's a game and part of losing or winning is all part of that enjoyment.

Ungood

Scorchien said:

Ungood said:

Scorchien said:

I do it all the time across many games .. Fun stuff .. Win/Lose or just put the fear in them .. Always fun ..

But then again , i dont care about pixels ..

  I dont care about dying , or losing stuff .. They are pixels after all , Its not like someone stole your car or killed your dog ..

 Never could wrap my mind around why people get upset at dying or losing stuff in a game ..

 Weird in my eyes

This has always been a wired stand to me.

I mean if you don't care about the pixels (game), why even play? Why not invest that time into something that does matter to you, after all, that is the breaths of your life you are giving up to do that.. why not use them to invest in something you care about.

That would be like someone who has a hobby making model cars telling me they don't care about model cars... Why the fuck are you wasting time on it then if you sincerely do not care about it?

I mean, I am sure there are some people who only enjoy making the model car, and then once done, just throw it away, or set it on fire, as it has no value to them anymore, but I don't understand that mindset.

umm the games are fun .. It does not mean i need to become emotionally attached to pixels .(like a Bow for ex..). Can have fun playing with out that ..

You make it sound like you treat an MMO like a game of Solitaire, nothing more than pointless time kill to you.

For me, I get into those kinds of games as well, I often play shallow FPS however, because, well, they are shallow time kill games by design, they don't have any means of progression, so nothing lost when I die, lose, fail. Just fun of the game in the moment.

Now that mentality seems contra to what MMO's often try to develop, which is rich, deep, character and gear progression and development.

Now not to jump back and forth between threads, but these are somewhat linked.

Which, as I think about it, might explain why Full Loot PvP MMO style games don't take off, because they need a player base with the mind set of a shallow FPS, where loss means nothing, while trying to mix that up with getting a player invested into their character through development and progression.

They seem to be, for the most part, exclusive mindsets. 

This might explain why a game like Fortnight, which is a full loot PvP game, can have 100 million players, and PvP focused MMO's with similar mechanics, struggle for 30K.

TwistedSister77

I have before... the same question can be... why do you 2v1 or 3+v1 players of similar or greater rank... fun and challenge.

Why do small bands of players in PvP full loot (or any loot) take on player zergs or much larger groups... skill and fun.

Since OP really didn't mention why this question is asked... or provide additional context... I'm simply answering the question.  I do.

WHEN I engage PvP, in general, is a completely different matter and very complex question (e.g. the game itself,  red is not dead, and I definitely don't grief...).  

Scorchien

Ungood said:

Scorchien said:

Ungood said:

Scorchien said:

I do it all the time across many games .. Fun stuff .. Win/Lose or just put the fear in them .. Always fun ..

But then again , i dont care about pixels ..

  I dont care about dying , or losing stuff .. They are pixels after all , Its not like someone stole your car or killed your dog ..

 Never could wrap my mind around why people get upset at dying or losing stuff in a game ..

 Weird in my eyes

This has always been a wired stand to me.

I mean if you don't care about the pixels (game), why even play? Why not invest that time into something that does matter to you, after all, that is the breaths of your life you are giving up to do that.. why not use them to invest in something you care about.

That would be like someone who has a hobby making model cars telling me they don't care about model cars... Why the fuck are you wasting time on it then if you sincerely do not care about it?

I mean, I am sure there are some people who only enjoy making the model car, and then once done, just throw it away, or set it on fire, as it has no value to them anymore, but I don't understand that mindset.

umm the games are fun .. It does not mean i need to become emotionally attached to pixels .(like a Bow for ex..). Can have fun playing with out that ..

You make it sound like you treat an MMO like a game of Solitaire, nothing more than pointless time kill to you.

For me, I get into those kinds of games as well, I often play shallow FPS however, because, well, they are shallow time kill games by design, they don't have any means of progression, so nothing lost when I die, lose, fail. Just fun of the game in the moment.

Now that mentality seems contra to what MMO's often try to develop, which is rich, deep, character and gear progression and development.

Now not to jump back and forth between threads, but these are somewhat linked.

Which, as I think about it, might explain why Full Loot PvP MMO style games don't take off, because they need a player base with the mind set of a shallow FPS, where loss means nothing, while trying to mix that up with getting a player invested into their character through development and progression.

They seem to be, for the most part, exclusive mindsets. 

This might explain why a game like Fortnight, which is a full loot PvP game, can have 100 million players, and PvP focused MMO's with similar mechanics, struggle for 30K.

umm Full loot PvP mmos do Not have generally rich gear progression .. The idea is that most is easily replacable(so Moot point) .. Now you can get good stuff , and use it and risk losing it , But even that can always be replaced ..

 Character development cannot be taken away either way (so moot point) there..

  Gear is a replaceable expendable tool ..

   and No i do not treat them like solitare in any way .. If i understand your point here..

  I have firends in Uo i have played with for many years .. and another group i move to various games with (NW ) next since Asherons Call ..

  As Slap pointed out above and its a point ive made to my groups of friends over the years its less the game and more about the people ....

   Now i do enjoy progression im about to log into UO and work on a new Nox Archer build ..

    And i will craft him some great Leather gear and Bows .. mater a fact i will craft 6 sets and have them in bags .. with pots food Arrows .. etc.. entire gear sets that are easily replacable ..

   And easily Obtained .. Thats what Full Loot PVP games provide ..

  Now im off to have fun ... Living /Dying and losing my gear .. so be it ..

Scorchien

Sovrath said:

Scorchien said:

Sovrath said:

Scorchien said:

I do it all the time across many games .. Fun stuff .. Win/Lose or just put the fear in them .. Always fun ..

But then again , i dont care about pixels ..

  I dont care about dying , or losing stuff .. They are pixels after all , Its not like someone stole your car or killed your dog ..

 Never could wrap my mind around why people get upset at dying or losing stuff in a game ..

 Weird in my eyes

Of course you care. If you didn't you wouldn't be playing. I think the takeaway is that you put it in perspective.

It's a game. It's played to have fun. Players should only be playing games where they can accept the rules OR at least be able to tolerate the rules.

You losing or gaining anything doesn't make you a better or lesser person.

And in a game where you can lose items or levels or "whatever" if you do lose these things, nothing is really taken away from you in actual life.

or pretty much what Ungood said.

Lol .. no i really dont care ,I play because its fun ..  (weird huh).. Ive lost many things in UO for example over the years some very good stuff..

   So ohh my what do i do .. Erhmm now i have to actually play the game more to replace it wether farming or crafting .. Its what is signed up to do in the first place , So now i get to do more of what i enjoy and signed up for in the first place ..

  .. Kill Mobs get loot have fun .. Really makes no difference to me at all if i die and lose items or Karma etc ..

 

  I have fun regaining those things .. as well as losing them .. or not ..:)

But that's what I mean, you are having fun. There is a certain emotional, um ... I don't know, "energy" or investment" to having fun.

If you didn't care you wouldn't be doing it. You care to be engaged, you care to have fun, you care to have a good experience.

Do you care if you lose stuff in a game? I would say no. Because it's a game and part of losing or winning is all part of that enjoyment.

I dont care about the gear .. That was clearly my Point ..

 I dont care if i die in PVP .. was clearly my point ..

  

Sovrath

Scorchien said:

Sovrath said:

Scorchien said:

Sovrath said:

Scorchien said:

I do it all the time across many games .. Fun stuff .. Win/Lose or just put the fear in them .. Always fun ..

But then again , i dont care about pixels ..

  I dont care about dying , or losing stuff .. They are pixels after all , Its not like someone stole your car or killed your dog ..

 Never could wrap my mind around why people get upset at dying or losing stuff in a game ..

 Weird in my eyes

Of course you care. If you didn't you wouldn't be playing. I think the takeaway is that you put it in perspective.

It's a game. It's played to have fun. Players should only be playing games where they can accept the rules OR at least be able to tolerate the rules.

You losing or gaining anything doesn't make you a better or lesser person.

And in a game where you can lose items or levels or "whatever" if you do lose these things, nothing is really taken away from you in actual life.

or pretty much what Ungood said.

Lol .. no i really dont care ,I play because its fun ..  (weird huh).. Ive lost many things in UO for example over the years some very good stuff..

   So ohh my what do i do .. Erhmm now i have to actually play the game more to replace it wether farming or crafting .. Its what is signed up to do in the first place , So now i get to do more of what i enjoy and signed up for in the first place ..

  .. Kill Mobs get loot have fun .. Really makes no difference to me at all if i die and lose items or Karma etc ..

 

  I have fun regaining those things .. as well as losing them .. or not ..:)

But that's what I mean, you are having fun. There is a certain emotional, um ... I don't know, "energy" or investment" to having fun.

If you didn't care you wouldn't be doing it. You care to be engaged, you care to have fun, you care to have a good experience.

Do you care if you lose stuff in a game? I would say no. Because it's a game and part of losing or winning is all part of that enjoyment.

I dont care about the gear .. That was clearly my Point ..

 I dont care if i die in PVP .. was clearly my point ..

  

I don't know if it was clearly your point but I suspected that was the kernel of it.