Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Future Upgrades

245

Comments

  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    edited August 2021
    Honestly, the B550 are also cheaper than the X versions. With them, there's more possibilities of finding a mini itx board. I shall see what I can find in November.

    Its already going to be a pain as I'm going to try going for an all white style this time around haha. I'm still looking to see which ram fits my needs (and looks). From what I've saw, the thermaltake ones are the best option so far. That said, ram sure did rise in price :/

    [Edit]

    Speaking of which, what's the sweet's spot for ram? 4000Mhz? higher?

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,356
    edited August 2021
    Bloodaxes said:


    Speaking of which, what's the sweet's spot for ram? 4000Mhz? higher?
    For Zen3 the best bang for the buck has been 3200-3600

    AMD officially supports up to 3200, but I've seen up to 4000 working fine. Generally, start with 3200, and if you can get 3600 for not a lot more than 3200 spring for it, but it generally hasn't proven worth while to go beyond that.

    The CL values play into it as much as clock speed though. Lower CL values are better, and it's likely a really low CL value of slower RAM will perform better than a high CL value at a higher clock speed. There are entire online calculators dedicated to figuring that out though.

    I'd also like to point out - many RAM kits comes with an overclock that you need to enable on your motherboard. If you want to get the speed advertised on the box, you will likely have to overvolt past the DDR4 specification of 1.2V -- most running at 1.35-1.4V, which often require manually setting. The box will specify what voltage is required to hit the clock speed they advertise - just something to pay attention to.

    That may change come November based on street pricing of RAM. 16G is still plenty for most people.
    Bloodaxes
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,940
    edited August 2021
    Ridelynn said:
    Bloodaxes said:

    Was looking through Asm0deus screenshot above, and assumed the X series is the go to for future builds.
    That is exactly what AMD and motherboard manufacturers want you to assume. But it isn't the case.

    X is the "enthusiast" lineup, B is the "mainstream" lineup. There is also an A lineup, which is more for OEMs to build pre-built office-type computers with; you won't find many third party motherboards offering them.

    AMD was pretty reasonable with the B lineup, and didn't lock a lot of features behind the higher priced X lineup. They still allow for overclocking on the B chipset, they still have a pretty generous PCI 4 allocation on the B lineup, and you aren't missing on anything important by getting a B chipset rather than an X.

    So long as you get a decent B550 model, it will still have decent power delivery and build quality and more than capable as a gaming machine -- there are some models out there that are "budget" and may be pushing the limits as to what they should be doing, but most of the big name brands avoid most of that.

    X models will tend to have higher-end features, such as optional water cooling on the motherboard, much beefier and better power delivery to support bigger overclocks, more on-board diagnostics, and higher end audio, networking, RAID support, and other various peripheral functions. Nice stuff, but hardly essential stuff.

    For most gamers, the differences between the X and B lineup on the current generation (X570 / B550) are pretty small. This is also likely the be either the last, or next to last generation to be on the AM4 chipset. DDR5 and PCI 5.0 are both coming down the road, AMD will likely break backwards compatibility and move forward to a new socket. If that occurs with Xen 4 or not I don't know, but it's coming "soon".

    That said, I wouldn't hold off on buying a new computer waiting on that - "soon" could be 3-4 years down the road, and you will get plenty of life out of any computer built with current-generation parts in 2021.

    Eh depends on the gen of the chispet and other factors lots of the "B" boards have cut corners and have subpar VRM's, maybe not on the B550 board but the older b450 sure do barring a few boards here and there like the msi tomahawk (avoid the mpg line though they suck) or often lack or have less ports etc etc.

    If you are building a PC like I did for 5 to 10 year use get the x570 boards if you  plan on upgrading in 5 years or less get a B550 board again this depends on use ..if you just wanna watch movies and surf the web then these cpu and boards are overkill by far.

    It's difficult to make a blanket statement and be accurate like that though on this kind of thing as you need to go board by board really which is why that link to the tier list of board will give a pretty good idea of which boards are good and which to avoid.

    Avoid the orange colored ones and try to stick to the blue colored ones.


    For ram something like this is good:

    3200C14: 8.75ns
    3600C15: 8.33ns
    3600C16: 8.88ns

    I got this:


    But got this working at 3733c16



    Bloodaxes

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    Mainly asked about memory speeds because a workmate told me that AMD favours higher clock speeds to get better performance. I'll probably stick to around 3600 tough.

    They're already quite pricey, I don't want to spend more than I have to for a marginal improvement.

  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,422
    edited August 2021
    Ridelynn said:

    That may change come November based on street pricing of RAM. 16G is still plenty for most people.
    I agree about 16 GB.

    Personally if I were building a new computer now, if the motherboard had four RAM slots I'd go with 16 GB on the logic that it should be enough, and if it's not then there are free slots to add another 16 GB later on. But if I were building to a mini ITX -motherboard that has only two RAM slots, then I might get 32 GB kit.
     
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,554
    "Smaller" cases usually means shorter.  That doesn't necessarily save you desk space, though it will help if the problem is that a taller case wouldn't fit underneath whatever you're trying to put it under.  They can't necessarily make cases much narrower, as the video card has to physically fit.  Some cases are an inch or so narrower than others, but that really has nothing to do with being a mid-tower or something smaller.
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    Quizzical said:
    "Smaller" cases usually means shorter.  That doesn't necessarily save you desk space, though it will help if the problem is that a taller case wouldn't fit underneath whatever you're trying to put it under.  They can't necessarily make cases much narrower, as the video card has to physically fit.  Some cases are an inch or so narrower than others, but that really has nothing to do with being a mid-tower or something smaller.
    The case I linked is less wide but approx same height of a normal tower. That lets it slot a 3 fan GPU if necessary and hold a normal sized PSU. The only "downgrade" is the motherboard, and less ventilation inside.

    With a less wider case I can easily tuck it in the corner of my desk or put it on the side as it will surely fit.

  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,393
    edited August 2021
    The speed of ram on current AMD Ryzen processors is not realistically important. It was important for Gen 1 Ryzen due to how the processor handled ram timing. The very first version of this generation was especially picky about it's ram. There are differences, but nothing that should affect real world performance.
    Ryzen 5000 RAM Guide: Find The Best RAM For Your Zen 3 CPU | Tom's Hardware (tomshardware.com)
    Bloodaxes
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,422
    Cleffy said:
    The speed of ram on current AMD Ryzen processors is not realistically important.
    Realistically, the price difference between DDR4 2133 MHz, 2400 MHz, 2666 MHz, 3000 MHz and 3200 MHz is usually so small that you should try to get 3200 MHz. Sometimes even DDR4 3600 MHz is available at decent price. But past 3600 MHz speeds the extra memory speed becomes so expensive that faster memory is only rarely worth buying.
    RidelynnAsm0deus
     
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    edited August 2021
    Which ram would you ppl go for? 

    Crucial Ballistix RGB 32GB (16GBx2): 
    https://www.amazon.de/-/en/BL2K16G36C16U4WL-Crucial-Ballistix-RGB/dp/B083VNMP87/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=ddr4+ram+32gb+wei%C3%9F&qid=1629050012&sr=8-3

    or

    Corsair Vengeance RGB 32GB (16GBx2):
    https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Corsair-VENGEANCE-2x16GB-PC4-28800-Desktop/dp/B08SQRF8MJ/ref=sr_1_15?dchild=1&keywords=ddr4%2Bram%2B32gb%2B3600mhz%2Bwei%C3%9F&qid=1629050079&s=computers&sr=1-15&th=1

    Both have 3600Mhz and seems to have same voltage. The difference in price is +-2 euro and besides aesthetics and brand I can't see any differences. Highest I can find from my country is the 3200Mhz and they're priced for 230-260.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,554
    Which memory to buy depends tremendously on what the prices are when you make your purchase.

    The stock voltage of DDR4 is 1.2 V.  Anything higher than that is overvolting it, which is akin to overclocking.  There is a lot of memory whose stock settings are 1.35 V, but that's basically a factory overclock of the memory.  It will probably be fine, but if you're getting a factory overclocked part with default settings outside of the rated specs provided by the manufacturer of the memory chips, then you should understand that that's what you're getting.
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,356
    edited August 2021
    Bloodaxes said:
    Which ram would you ppl go for? 

    Crucial Ballistix RGB 32GB (16GBx2): 
    https://www.amazon.de/-/en/BL2K16G36C16U4WL-Crucial-Ballistix-RGB/dp/B083VNMP87/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=ddr4+ram+32gb+wei%C3%9F&qid=1629050012&sr=8-3

    or

    Corsair Vengeance RGB 32GB (16GBx2):
    https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Corsair-VENGEANCE-2x16GB-PC4-28800-Desktop/dp/B08SQRF8MJ/ref=sr_1_15?dchild=1&keywords=ddr4%2Bram%2B32gb%2B3600mhz%2Bwei%C3%9F&qid=1629050079&s=computers&sr=1-15&th=1

    Both have 3600Mhz and seems to have same voltage. The difference in price is +-2 euro and besides aesthetics and brand I can't see any differences. Highest I can find from my country is the 3200Mhz and they're priced for 230-260.

    The Ballistix set is
    3600 16-18-18-38 1.35v

    The Vengeance set is
    3600 18-22-22-42 1.35V

    The Ballistix set will be a good bit faster.

    VrikaBloodaxes
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,422
    @Bloodaxes

    I'd recommend this memory kit:

    https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Vengeance-DDR4-32GB-3200-Corsair/dp/B08S9BLC36

    It's on sale 156€. It's a bit slower than the kits you were looking at, but it's so much cheaper that it's a better purchase.
    BloodaxesRidelynn
     
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    edited August 2021
    That does seem enticing for sure. Paying an extra 50 euro for an additional 400mhz does seem quite a price jump.

    [Edit]

    Asked two retailers that bring thermaltake products and got a pretty good deal on the small case, so I bought it now. Got the white (snow) case for 129 euro. From amazon.de it costs 120, then you have to account shipping which for a case won't be as cheap.
    Post edited by Bloodaxes on
    Ridelynn

  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    edited August 2021
    If you people don't mind I got another question. I was making a list for the cpu cooling, and I'm torn whether to go for an aio or air cooling. 

    The Tower 100 case can fit at best a 140mm fan at the top. However, from what I found out, 140mm AIO are slightly bigger so they might not fit in the case. This means a 120mm vs a 140mm air cooler.

    The pros of an AIO is mainly the looks and less wiring in the middle. The con (?) is that at best, the cooling will be marginally better than an air cooling solution. Another small con (at least for me) is that I can't find a white version. The only one I found was this: https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Nfortec-Cooling-Standard-Compatible-Generation/dp/B08HGS13L1/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=nfortec&qid=1629469368&s=computers&sr=1-2

    It looks very nice, but there aren't many reviews on it (in english at least). I'm unsure how good it is. There's also the issue that it needs to be compatible with AM4.

    So, what would you go for? Air or AIO? Price is not a problem. They're relatively the same cost when you consider the fans.

    Thanks!

    [Edit]

    Also, after ordering the case, I saw a clip on youtube with the white fractal and began having doubts. Now its too late to change it. Doubt I can return it after ordering it and getting my deposit back.

    Oh well, the smaller case is very nice too, my main concern is the motherboard and a little about the temperature. The mini itx motherboards have fewer usb and other connections so its gonna be a little annoying to see what to use. However, I can also buy a usb hub and be done with it.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,356
    edited August 2021
    Well, TT shows a 120mm AIO in their advertising on the product page for that case. But... I think I go back to my original advice - if you can't get a 240 AIO, stick with air cooling.

    You are right, a 140mm AIO may not fit in the same spot as a 140mm fan would. It ~should~, but I wouldn't take any bets.

    The AIO will have the same amount of wiring - actually maybe a bit more, it's just easier to hide. It would keep CPU heat out of the case, but with just a 120mm radiator, it probably wouldn't perform any better on the CPU, but may help keep your GPU and other stuff running a bit cooler.

    You can fit up to a 190mm tall air cooler in there, and your air cooler wouldn't be limited to 120 or 140mm, since it doesn't mount on the case, it just has to fit inside the case - you may still have to pay attention to clearance around the RAM though.
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,422
    Ridelynn said:
    Well, TT shows a 120mm AIO in their advertising on the product page for that case. But... I think I go back to my original advice - if you can't get a 240 AIO, stick with air cooling.

    You are right, a 140mm AIO may not fit in the same spot as a 140mm fan would. It ~should~, but I wouldn't take any bets....
    Thermaltake lists compatibility for AIOs, and that case is only listed as compatible with 120mm AIO. I don't think it's worth the risk trying to buy anything larger.
    Ridelynn
     
  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,393
    edited August 2021
    Personally, I would opt for an air cooler over an AIO of a similar size. The air cooler has less points of failure, and it helps cool secondary components around the CPU.
    Actually now that I dwell on it more. The best cooler for an AMD system would be the one it ships with. It's either the wraith that blows air in 2 directions from the cpu or its the spire that blows air in 4 directions. The heat produced by the cpu shouldn't necessitate a larger cooler unless you plan to over clock. 
    Post edited by Cleffy on
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    Air Cooling it is! Thanks guys.

    Cleffy said:
    Personally, I would opt for an air cooler over an AIO of a similar size. The air cooler has less points of failure, and it helps cool secondary components around the CPU.
    Actually now that I dwell on it more. The best cooler for an AMD system would be the one it ships with. It's either the wraith that blows air in 2 directions from the cpu or its the spire that blows air in 4 directions. The heat produced by the cpu shouldn't necessitate a larger cooler unless you plan to over clock. 
    I was more considering the noctua (with the white plate covers for aesthetic purposes) as I've read that while the stock amd cpu cooler isn't bad, it's not great either.

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,940
    Bloodaxes said:
    Air Cooling it is! Thanks guys.

    Cleffy said:
    Personally, I would opt for an air cooler over an AIO of a similar size. The air cooler has less points of failure, and it helps cool secondary components around the CPU.
    Actually now that I dwell on it more. The best cooler for an AMD system would be the one it ships with. It's either the wraith that blows air in 2 directions from the cpu or its the spire that blows air in 4 directions. The heat produced by the cpu shouldn't necessitate a larger cooler unless you plan to over clock. 
    I was more considering the noctua (with the white plate covers for aesthetic purposes) as I've read that while the stock amd cpu cooler isn't bad, it's not great either.

    The stock amd cooler are better than stock intel cooler but not really better than a decent air cooler... also not all amd cpu's come with a cpu cooler, like 5800x and 5900x will come with no cooler period.  They assume you will use a better 3rd party cooler.
    BloodaxesRidelynn

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    edited August 2021
    Yeah, assumed as much.

    I'm still considering between 5600 or 5800. Will see how their prices are around november/december and decide accordingly.
    Post edited by Bloodaxes on

  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,422
    Cleffy said:
    Personally, I would opt for an air cooler over an AIO of a similar size. The air cooler has less points of failure, and it helps cool secondary components around the CPU.
    Actually now that I dwell on it more. The best cooler for an AMD system would be the one it ships with. It's either the wraith that blows air in 2 directions from the cpu or its the spire that blows air in 4 directions. The heat produced by the cpu shouldn't necessitate a larger cooler unless you plan to over clock. 
    Better air coolers help to keep the CPU a bit colder, allow it to run at max. speeds for longer times without heat issues, and produce a bit less noise.

    AMD's stock coolers are ok, but better air cooler isn't a bad purchase.
    BloodaxesRidelynn
     
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,356
    Bloodaxes said:
    Yeah, assumed as much.

    I'm still considering between 5600 or 5800. Will see how their prices are around november/december and decide accordingly.
    I don't think you will go wrong with either of those. Sounds like a good plan.
    BloodaxesAsm0deus
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    Small Update:

    It's November, so Black "Friday" deals should start coming up. Now, there probably won't be any real discounts for the things I want, however I've been having a tough time trying to see which motherboard to go for. Remember, the motherboard needs to be mini ITX to fit my case (Thermaltake The Tower 100) and currently I have these choices:

    1. ASUS ROG Strix B550-I (Has a small discount until Wednesday)
      https://www.amazon.de/-/en/gp/product/B089T3SCJT/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&psc=1
    2. MSI MPG B550I Gaming Edge Max
      https://www.amazon.de/-/en/gp/product/B08VRFP3WQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?smid=A133RA3ZUAU4I7&psc=1
    3. Gigabyte X570
      https://www.amazon.de/-/en/gp/product/B07TTP74XR/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&th=1
    I'm going for Ryzen 7 5800x with 32GB DDR4 3200MHz (probably), and I use a fair amount of usb devices so I'd like as much as possible. What would you go for if you were to buy one? or would you go for something else?

    Thanks!

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,356
    edited November 2021
    Bloodaxes said:
    Small Update:

    It's November, so Black "Friday" deals should start coming up. Now, there probably won't be any real discounts for the things I want, however I've been having a tough time trying to see which motherboard to go for. Remember, the motherboard needs to be mini ITX to fit my case (Thermaltake The Tower 100) and currently I have these choices:

    1. ASUS ROG Strix B550-I (Has a small discount until Wednesday)
      https://www.amazon.de/-/en/gp/product/B089T3SCJT/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&psc=1
    2. MSI MPG B550I Gaming Edge Max
      https://www.amazon.de/-/en/gp/product/B08VRFP3WQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?smid=A133RA3ZUAU4I7&psc=1
    3. Gigabyte X570
      https://www.amazon.de/-/en/gp/product/B07TTP74XR/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&th=1
    I'm going for Ryzen 7 5800x with 32GB DDR4 3200MHz (probably), and I use a fair amount of usb devices so I'd like as much as possible. What would you go for if you were to buy one? or would you go for something else?

    Thanks!
    Ryzen CPUs just got a decent discount (on pending Alder Lake from Intel).

    I have 3 builds based on the Asus Rog Strix B550F. They have been solid and stable boards for the price, but I will say they do occasionally have phantom USB devices connect/discconnect, and one of them has some Ethernet flakiness. Not bad, they run well, but in the spirit of full disclosure.

     I don't know that it's worth paying anything extra for the X570.

    For "Fair Amount of USB devices" - You shouldn't be paying anything extra for USB slots on a motherboard, as they can easily and inexpensively be extended via powered hubs or added via drop-in cards if you absolutely need full bandwidth.

    *edit* I'll also add I feel the same way about WiFi - never pay extra for it on a motherboard, it's too easy and inexpensive to add on after the fact.
    Post edited by Ridelynn on
Sign In or Register to comment.