Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

The Old Days, The New Days

ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 16,067
edited July 31 in The Pub at MMORPG.COM

In the old days articles which were "controversial" were allowed to run for a page or three then closed down. Now they are not even opened for discussion, we understood why they got closed down before; I cannot remember anyone proposing they run and run.

To me this site is all about the good articles which has not changed and the comments which has changed. So I will not now read any articles I cannot comment on, this is not some sort of protest, this is not some sort of sit in or whatever. To me it just seems a logical step; I don't want anyone to do what I am doing, the rest of you may be happy to read about it here and comment elsewhere.

The last time this happened months back. I reposted the sites article and we commented on the article there, I was asked not to do that, so I haven't again. I think if someone tried to precis an article or do their own for the Pub it would get closed down as well and I would agree with them there if we had already had our say in the main article. I respect the decision they have made, but I don't think they realise that once you go start to go done this road, more and more articles will come under the "controversial" heading, a forum thrives on its comments not the lack of them.

BrainySharneMendelKyleranPo_ggSetzerlaxieJean-Luc_PicardAlBQuirkyNanfoodleand 1 other.
«1345678

Comments

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,457
    If you don't get why this is happening and the "side" that is pushing the limits forcing closed threads then neither myself or anyone else can help you see what is going on. In my opinion, MMORPG has been more than gracious and patient in these threads. Every single one has been unceremoniously derailed by bad faith posters, many who have a long history here. I agree with their decision to avoid the mess and let every voice puke their diatribe of tripe salad.

    The social fiasco we're enduring is because some groups have been bad actors and they've been given social license to do so for a long time now. That is seeing hard blowback and we're all going to pay the price for it. Since it has been festering for so long the "other" side doesn't just want things fixed, they want payback which again means a broader spectrum of people in the middle are going to feel the pain.

    In the US and some other parts of the Americas we're a civilization deeply divided. It is going to get worse before it gets better.
    IselinMendelAsm0deusArglebargleJean-Luc_PicardAlBQuirky
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 2,213
    Having your say here is a privilege, not a right. I don't see the occasional denial of that privilege logically consistent with a self-imposed constraint on which posts you read.

    Regardless, whatever works for you.
  • ZegalothZegaloth Member RarePosts: 465
    Scot said:

    In the old days articles which were "controversial" were allowed to run for a page or three then closed down. Now they are not even opened for discussion, we understood why they got closed down before; I cannot remember anyone proposing they run and run.

    To me this site is all about the good articles which has not changed and the comments which has changed. So I will not now read any articles I cannot comment on, this is not some sort of protest, this is not some sort of sit in or whatever. To me it just seems a logical step; I don't want anyone to do what I am doing, the rest of you may be happy to read about it here and comment elsewhere.

    The last time this happened months back. I reposted the sites article and we commented on the article there, I was asked not to do that, so I haven't again. I think if someone tried to precis an article or do their own for the Pub it would get closed down as well and I would agree with them there if we had already had our say in the main article. I respect the decision they have made, but I don't think they realise that once you go start to go done this road, more and more articles will come under the "controversial" heading, a forum thrives on its comments not the lack of them.

     
    I don't really see the articles and the forums as interconnected as you do. The comments are archived in the forums, but I figured that was more for simplicity for the web designer than anything else.

    In that same vein people already posted topics about the recent events going on with the state of California, and those got locked, and deleted.

    Would you feel the same way if they just updated 1 article related to this topic rather than having 10 articles?

    Some of the people on here have said some truly vile things because they saw a black person in the Witcher Netflix series, and some had said some terrible things about women because it's such a surprise to them that women want some variety in their character designs, and those are the people you should be blaming for the current disabled comments on recent events.

    These forums feel like a white dude club, and despite the staff here trying to prune away at that, I still remember what those people said, and I remember how they made the very few PoC, and females on these forums feel, and as a result I don't see those few people post here anymore.

    I see you constantly going into threads trying to be a neutral party, but what we need is people telling these venomous leeches to kick rocks, and to pedal their hate somewhere else, and that is something I very rarely see here. 
    Iselin
    Husband, Father, Shit Poster.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 16,067
    I take these points, but I am not sure how pertinent they are. Is this really all about America being a divided society? I think that is way too political and indeed narrow a focus. You can characterise some of the dodgy comments on here like that but all of them? I do agree we have bad actors, but their motivations vary, the old way was to let them vent then shut it down, it did work. Also if you see this as being only about the "other side" I think that is detrimental to finding a solution.

    Unless you expect a forum to be a pristine exemplar of order and nicety you are going to expect some bad posts now and then. I realise people can be genuinely offended by what has been said, I do not think that is always overdone, but it is becoming increasingly hard to distinguish the genuine from the drama.

    Also I understand MMORPG.com is limited in the amount of time they can adjudicate the forums. But we have gone from them needing to check in once a day and saying "Ok two pages is enough" to stopping any comments at all.

    I won't pretend trying to calm posters down always works, but it actually worked better than I thought it would. Don't name posters, talk about "the thread" rather than people.

    I understand the desire to see some kickback, but we do see bans, people do get warnings, any kickback is going to be as long as a piece of string, how far do you want them to go? A permeant ban, on the basis of one post, yes I believe in second chances too much, but you can over do it.
    ZegalothSlapshot1188BrainySetzerAlBQuirky
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 16,116
    @Scot

    You of all people, who spend a lot of your time telling posters to calm down and act like adults should know why articles about gaming companies that broach social subjects, employment conditions or politics have been locked for comment.

    There is a crowd of people here who take any opportunity to spout political slogans about the "woke" and "SJWs" and all kinds of far right bias any chance they get.

    I'm not even going to pretend that both sides do it because even though some of us who are pissed off by all the trash slogans and grossly insensitive, sometimes racist and often misogynist bile spewed here, will sometimes join in and react, it is most definitely not us doing the derailing that always, without exception, happens in those threads.

    I'm not proud of letting my temper suck me in to responding and lashing out but I can't let all the offensive bile spewed here just ride. A personal failing I guess.

    @Zegaloth brought up the Witcher TV series.

    I was the one who started that thread because I had watched it, liked it and being related to the game, I thought here would be a good place to have a discussion about it... wrong.

    All it took was a coupe of posts before Caffynated (remember that racist asshole?) turned it into a rant about how POC had no business being cast for that series because this was all about medieval Poland and they didn't have no stinking POC. Never mind the fact that neither the books, games nor TV series are not set on this Earth, much less Poland.

    That thread was locked and I never got to have the discussion about the TV series I wanted to have here because the usual suspects wanted to make it a platform for spouting their hateful political tripe. 

    There's a crowd here that either doesn't have a normal outlet to discuss their far right politics or they do and still want to constantly inject it into topics here because... I really don't know... so I'll just go with "reasons."

    Frankly IMO, It's about time those articles got locked because a large portion of the crowd here don't deserve the opportunity to spew their hateful bile every fucking day on every fucking thread.
     


    SovrathZegalothArglebarglekitaradJean-Luc_Picardklash2deflaserit
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 16,067
    edited July 31
    I remember the Witcher thread, it went from a need for historical realism which I agreed with up to a point, to only wanting to only see white faces in a fantasy setting. So I do agree with you, it went way too far.

    The other thing that often concerns me is we come across too much as a members only club, though I must admit I did not see it as "white dudes". That said I have questioned everything from the colour titles to trying to get us to be more welcoming as a community.

    It has always been a tricky balance, I never thought the old way was great, just that it was better than no comments. I do think we will get "controversy" creep, after all a poster can raise a political subject bouncing of just about anything and guys that's not just the ones on the right, it is in my eyes anyone who is sufficiently political and there are a lot of them about on all sides and every which way. Myself included, you don't have to be a "political animal" to go on the occasional rant.
    ZegalothAlBQuirky
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    You don't have to be a political animal to go on an occasional rant. But you should have the maturity to recognize that a forum about video games isn't the place to air political grievances.
    ScotSovrathZegalothJean-Luc_PicardAlBQuirkyFrodoFragins
  • DattelisDattelis Member UncommonPosts: 160
    Personally, I dont think commentary is really needed on the Blizzard situation as a whole. Its nice to know how some feel in regards to their personal beliefs in the public domain so you can better connect (or distance) yourself from them, but the posting of articles might serve a different purpose, like keeping people generally informed as to what is happening and how productivity may be impacted going forward. If that's what this site if trying to accomplish, then I have no qualms with them disabling commentary.
    AlBQuirky
  • ZegalothZegaloth Member RarePosts: 465
    I had a long winded response, but I thought it was a bit too political, so I will try to veer back on course, and try to focus in the way people criticize others on here.

    the Crowfall review, or pretty much any review that is spicy on here always comes with an accusation that the publisher of the article is a "paid shill".

    I have wondered why people choose to leave a statement like that, as opposed to "I disagree with you, here's why".

    To me when someone uses language to attack someone's character (in this case the article writer, and their integrity as an independent reviewer) it signals to me that they have a strong personal bias towards liking the game, but lack the self awareness to realize that it doesn't mean that you can still like it. I liked Crowfall for about 3 weeks. I knew I probably wouldn't like it forever, but I tried to enjoy it in the parameters of what the game is.

    I loved Fallout 76, and played it for hundreds of hours, and I was well aware of how awful public reception of it was, but I had the opportunity to try it out, and enjoyed it enough to spend that time in there. I know it's a bad game, just like I know Friday the 13th is a bad movie.

    I think people enjoy getting their opinions validated, and it upsets some people when their opinion of a game doesn't align with others, and maybe they just lack the ability to articulate those feelings of personal rejection.

    Luckily I got a lot of practice as a young adult dealing with rejection. One of my most vivid memories was my first day working in a dishpit at a breakfast/lunch diner. it was a Saturday, the other dish washer who was supposed to train me no call no showed, and I remember looking at the 12 bus tubs full of dishes and feeling so overwhelmed.

    I did the best I could not know where anything was, or how anything worked, and my friend who was a line cook there that got me the job was watching me with the head chef, and i could hear my friend go "Well it's his first day." and the head chef shouted "This piece of shit will never make it in this business!" My buddy then helped me catch up, and push through the rush.

    I worked my other days, then went to the manager of the business, and said I wanted to put in my two weeks. He asked me "why?" I told him about what the head chef said, and the manager said "Don't listen to that alcoholic asshole, you're doing fine. If you still want to quit, then I will accept your two weeks notice, but I think you're doing fine."

    I ended up staying there for 4 years, worked on the line, and I proved that alcoholic asshole that I COULD make it in the business, and from that point on I became hyper aware of how much value I put into other people's opinions, and i am old enough now that I know what I like, and I know where I stand, and I am fine with knowing that to me Death Stranding was a 10/10 for me, and the Last of Us 2 is a 2/10 for me. The only person I am trying to justify a purchase to is myself.

    Jeez, what a mess.
    tzervoKyleranScotnursoAlBQuirky
    Husband, Father, Shit Poster.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    IDC if a thread gets shut down,it is a statement on it's own that tells the lack of integrity in your journalism.

    Anyone could post the definition of "discussion" but it won't matter because in the modern world of gaming it is all about i kiss your ass and you kiss my ass.

    At one time journalists were free to write,now they are paid to write what they are told to write.Most of the entire internet is just buisiness,people out  making money and should have been obvious 26 years ago when cookies were invented by a Netscape employee.

    For years we were told they were to "improve our site experience"among a few other claims nobody was telling the truth.So these websites have been lying for 26 years and funny to still some doing it.

    Journailsists used to have a code and if any writer crossed that line he would be blackballed by the internet and other journalists.We do see it but very seldom,example the IGN reviewer who got caught not even reviewing a game but still pretended to ahve done the review.Sasdly after all that a former IGN employee still managed to defend all her former IGN employees,like we should expect any different.My point is that even when proven a real asshat there are white Knights everywhere that are ready to use bleach on the stains.

    Now a days very little is what it seems.There is an angle,agenda behind almost everything you read.It might be as simple as click bait or disguised advertising or a shill going about business one way or another.

    One thing for certain is that for as long as we have had laws there are people out there trying to get around them or flat out ignore them.

    There is a lot more to the bigger picture but i am out of time explaining it all,people can pay attention for themselves.
    ScotAlBQuirky

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • SharneSharne Member UncommonPosts: 299
    Scot said:

    In the old days articles which were "controversial" were allowed to run for a page or three then closed down. Now they are not even opened for discussion, we understood why they got closed down before; I cannot remember anyone proposing they run and run.

    To me this site is all about the good articles which has not changed and the comments which has changed. So I will not now read any articles I cannot comment on, this is not some sort of protest, this is not some sort of sit in or whatever. To me it just seems a logical step; I don't want anyone to do what I am doing, the rest of you may be happy to read about it here and comment elsewhere.

    The last time this happened months back. I reposted the sites article and we commented on the article there, I was asked not to do that, so I haven't again. I think if someone tried to precis an article or do their own for the Pub it would get closed down as well and I would agree with them there if we had already had our say in the main article. I respect the decision they have made, but I don't think they realise that once you go start to go done this road, more and more articles will come under the "controversial" heading, a forum thrives on its comments not the lack of them.

    Yeah I tend to agree. I feel that if something is posted up by the mmorpg team, its relevant to games and as such should be open for discussion period.

    We may not all agree with some of the people that post here but everyone should be entitled to have their point of view, provided it follows the rules of discussion.

    I mean if this is the reason the lol king got banned for discussing his view on females in the work place in the thread started by a guy who went for a job with Blizzard, then its pretty piss poor moderating imho and even though I may not agree with his opinion, I respect his right to have his own opinion. From what I could see of his posts, there was nothing particularly ban worthy in there (unless I missed it, which is of course possible)




    ScotKyleranAlBQuirky
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 14,090
    edited July 31
    Lets be 100% honest here.  People are banned based on people pressing the REPORT button.  People do not like to see their perspectives challenged and that is why those threads get shut for commenting. They turn into a contest of who can hit REPORT faster or more frequently. If they didn't we would just end up having a few more people banned each time.  Eventually we just whittle down the population further and further.  Do I LIKE the fact that they are shut?  No.  But I 100% understand why.  It's self-preservation for the site.

    SharneAlBQuirkyFrodoFragins

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,670
    When @Gdemami is banned, no one laughs.



    ScotKyleranAlBQuirkyVermillion_Raventhal

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 16,067
    edited July 31
    Sharne said:
    Scot said:

    In the old days articles which were "controversial" were allowed to run for a page or three then closed down. Now they are not even opened for discussion, we understood why they got closed down before; I cannot remember anyone proposing they run and run.

    To me this site is all about the good articles which has not changed and the comments which has changed. So I will not now read any articles I cannot comment on, this is not some sort of protest, this is not some sort of sit in or whatever. To me it just seems a logical step; I don't want anyone to do what I am doing, the rest of you may be happy to read about it here and comment elsewhere.

    The last time this happened months back. I reposted the sites article and we commented on the article there, I was asked not to do that, so I haven't again. I think if someone tried to precis an article or do their own for the Pub it would get closed down as well and I would agree with them there if we had already had our say in the main article. I respect the decision they have made, but I don't think they realise that once you go start to go done this road, more and more articles will come under the "controversial" heading, a forum thrives on its comments not the lack of them.

    Yeah I tend to agree. I feel that if something is posted up by the mmorpg team, its relevant to games and as such should be open for discussion period.

    We may not all agree with some of the people that post here but everyone should be entitled to have their point of view, provided it follows the rules of discussion.

    I mean if this is the reason the lol king got banned for discussing his view on females in the work place in the thread started by a guy who went for a job with Blizzard, then its pretty piss poor moderating imho and even though I may not agree with his opinion, I respect his right to have his own opinion. From what I could see of his posts, there was nothing particularly ban worthy in there (unless I missed it, which is of course possible)
    As I mentioned the site has problems with such involved moderating. In some ways that's a good thing I remember in that Witcher thread when I said Cavill was a good choice because he is quite wooden and the regime Witchers live by partially removes their emotions it was described as a "back handed compliment". I guess that was not going to go down well with Cavill fans, on another site there might have been complaints! Great series btw, I can only hope Iselin starts another thread when the next series comes out.

    That's why I am not saying there is an easy solution, this is devil and the deep blue sea territory but what others see as justified I see as giving up.

    The posts from the other guys have opened my eyes to the depth of feeling about this, I had not realised some people were taking this so personally. All I can say is lets treat this like a problem not a war and we may be able to arrive at a better state of affairs.

    Not ignoring replies but of till the morrow.
    ZegalothAlBQuirky
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,602
    Welp I think you all are over complicating all this.

    It's fairly simple and regardless of who you are or political leanings the powers that be here are simply tired of wasting energy on the constant policing and babysitting they need to do in some articles thus they have comments turned off.

    Simple as that.




    ZegalothtzervomklinicAlBQuirky

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • ZegalothZegaloth Member RarePosts: 465
    Wizardry said:
    IDC if a thread gets shut down,it is a statement.


    This is exactly why we have this problem in the first place. You don't care about the outcome of what happens to others because you feel like it means something.

    You make posts about how modern gamers and consumers are mindless rubes, yet fail to see the irony in these statements when it comes to someone else dictating whether or not something you say is worth saying.

    AlBQuirky
    Husband, Father, Shit Poster.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,441
    edited August 1
    Asm0deus said:
    Welp I think you all are over complicating all this.

    It's fairly simple and regardless of who you are or political leanings the powers that be here are simply tired of wasting energy on the constant policing and babysitting they need to do in some articles thus they have comments turned off.

    Simple as that.




    So you are saying they are being lazy, taking the shorter route rather than policing the bad apples to remove their more onerous posts.

    Well, I guess we get what we pay for.....

    Over on MOP they have like 10 articles regarding the Blizzard situation, some with more comments than they ever normally see, yet somehow none of them have been shut down.

    Is there a better class of posters over there?  Or is their staff better at keeping things under control by being willing to  use moderation instead of lockdowns?

    Every time a thread is shut down a little something dies that day as the "bad guys" manage to stifle conversation, and this site and apparently some posters in this thread are quite willing to let them do so.

    Feels like people would rather yield to the terrorists rather than fight back.

    Pity.






    Post edited by Kyleran on
    ScotAsm0deusAlBQuirkyVermillion_RaventhalHawkaya399

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,441
    Lets be 100% honest here.  People are banned based on people pressing the REPORT button.  People do not like to see their perspectives challenged and that is why those threads get shut for commenting. They turn into a contest of who can hit REPORT faster or more frequently. If they didn't we would just end up having a few more people banned each time.  Eventually we just whittle down the population further and further.  Do I LIKE the fact that they are shut?  No.  But I 100% understand why.  It's self-preservation for the site.

    People are banned for saying stupid stuff, whether reported or if a moderator happens to run across their post shouldn't matter.

    I think the use of the report button and temp bans are the best method to police forums, much better than shutting conversations totally down.

    It's like in order to prevent people from dying in hospitals due to a few bad doctors the solution would be to shut all hospitals down, problem solved, right?

    Of course not.
    tzervoScotAlBQuirky

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 2,213
    Kyleran said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Welp I think you all are over complicating all this.

    It's fairly simple and regardless of who you are or political leanings the powers that be here are simply tired of wasting energy on the constant policing and babysitting they need to do in some articles thus they have comments turned off.

    Simple as that.




    So you are saying they are being lazy, taking the shorter route rather than policing the bad apples to remove their more onerous posts.

    Well, I guess we get what we pay for.....
    While effort can be spent it can also be wasted. When many apples in a particular barrel are bad you dispose of the lot of them. They aren't worth the time and energy to sort, especially when other things need doing.

    I expect the same applies here, especially at times when what needs to be sorted overwhelms those available to sort it.

    It's better to shut it down when you can't adequately stem the tide.
    Asm0deus
  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,795
    edited August 1
    Kyleran said:

    Over on MOP they have like 10 articles regarding the Blizzard situation, some with more comments than they ever normally see, yet somehow none of them have been shut down.

    Is there a better class of posters over there?  Or is their staff better at keeping things under control by being willing to  use moderation instead of lockdowns?

    Every time a thread is shut down a little something dies that day as the "bad guys" manage to stifle conversation, and this site and apparently some posters in this thread are quite willing to let them do so.

    Feels like people would rather yield to the terrorists rather than fight back.
    I am not in favour of topics being shut down or posters being aggressively moderated, especially if the posts are not effortless 1-line shit posts, regardless of whether I agree with them or not.

    I am also in favour of "their house, their rules". I think it is a balance. The moment anyone stops liking that balance they can simply stop visiting the site. It is the site's right to moderate content as they see fit, as is everyone else's right to reject it and stop visiting.

    MOP does not have a better class of posters. MOP is well known for deleting comments that do not fit their views and narrative, often even civil and carefully worded ones, while at the same time the posters that do fit their views are free to throw all sorts of ad hominems and insults to opposing voices. You can see that very clearly in the recent trending articles there. I would pick the blocking of comments that happens here over the selective biased moderation censorship and toxicity over there any time.

    This is actually why I am commenting here and not there. Not that I ever had any of my comments deleted there when I did, but I had seen comments that I considered perfectly civil being deleted, I got disgusted and left. Sadly I see this here in the past few days too and it worries me, although I try to also be understanding to the site mods trying to keep things under control. Time will tell.
    Po_ggScotSlapshot1188KyleranAsm0deusnursoAlBQuirkyklash2def
  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,795
    edited August 1
    EDIT: nvm wrong context
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,749
    tzervo said:
    Kyleran said:

    Over on MOP they have like 10 articles regarding the Blizzard situation, some with more comments than they ever normally see, yet somehow none of them have been shut down.

    Is there a better class of posters over there?  Or is their staff better at keeping things under control by being willing to  use moderation instead of lockdowns?
    MOP does not have a better class of posters. MOP is well known for deleting comments that do not fit their views and narrative, often even civil and carefully worded ones, while at the same time the posters that do fit their views are free to throw all sorts of ad hominems and insults to opposing voices. You can see that very clearly in the recent trending articles there. I would pick the blocking of comments that happens here over the selective biased moderation censorship and toxicity over there any time.

    This is actually why I am commenting here and not there. Not that I ever had any of my comments deleted there when I did, but I had seen comments that I considered perfectly civil being deleted, I got disgusted and left. Sadly I see this here in the past few days too and it worries me, although I try to also be understanding to the site mods trying to keep things under control. Time will tell.
    Yep, that's my take on it as well. (however they do have some good class posters, Hikari from old TSW, etc.)

    Also it's kinda apples and oranges. MOP is articles-heavy, while mmorpg.com is forum-heavy, or at least that's how I use them.

    MOP has some great entries, a lot wider coverage especially on the "underdogs" I play (hard to even remember when was the last time mmorpg.com did a CO or an AoC piece), but it lacks actual conversations. They only have (broadly speaking) a glorified comment section.
    (and yep, as tzervo I too almost never post there since years)

    On the other hand, mmorpg.com's main value is the forum (again, at least for me). It's maybe the only place where players can have detailed and lengthy conversations about anything MMORPG related, or even beyond.
    Sure, there are articles too, some of them even good, but as I've said after one of the site revamps a few years ago, my landing page was set to forums.mmorpg.com, and never changed it back... :)  I mostly just read the articles from their forum threads' opening post, it's useful they add a link there.

    In this sense I agree with Scot's opinion, but I also believe some moderation is indeed needed. The key is to find the fine balance between open discussion and bans/thread locks.
    It's a very tough and challenging task, no wonder forums are a dying breed (just as MMORPGs themselves), and reddit with its mob mentality has risen.... much easier to control and moderate, on the "cost" of much lower quality overall, both in discussions as in community.

    I just hope mmorpg.com staff finds that balance.

    Personally I don't like banned topics, but I don't know anything about the backgrounds, no idea how many of those "bad apples" Knight mentioned the staff has to wrestle on daily basis, so I can't really do more than hoping they won't overdo it at the end.
    tzervoKyleranAlBQuirky
  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,795
    Po_gg said:
    Yep, that's my take on it as well. (however they do have some good class posters, Hikari from old TSW, etc.)

    Also it's kinda apples and oranges. MOP is articles-heavy, while mmorpg.com is forum-heavy, or at least that's how I use them.

    MOP has some great entries, a lot wider coverage especially on the "underdogs" I play (hard to even remember when was the last time mmorpg.com did a CO or an AoC piece), but it lacks actual conversations. They only have (broadly speaking) a glorified comment section.
    (and yep, as tzervo I too almost never post there since years)
    They do have some good commenters, and many articles on underdogs and niche games, the latter being the only reason I still visit them for their weekly mop-up and less-well-known games articles.

    With the recent Indie MMO spotlight column from Mr Gassner and the increase in articles covering smaller games here, as well as all the tips from forum posters, I find myself visiting this site more and MOP less as time passes.
    Po_ggAlBQuirky
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 16,067
    I did not realise MOP did censorship by stealth, that is worse than stopping the comments on a thread. It allows MOP to create their own narrative from the posters as if the public's will was in line with their own on every issue.

    I have to agree with the poster who questioned were all those articles really that MMORPG related? Some were very "gaming industry bubble" and not my main reason for reading the articles on here. But if it's put up we should be able to comment all the same.

    Having been in charge of more than one guild forum I know it can be a time sink, and we never had the sorts of posts you get on here. I think in some way without good reason that's how I expect us to be here, colligate not at war.

    This is throwing out the barrel because of a few bad apples, even those who fully support the move see them as a minority of posters. We can report, we can block posters, there is moderation on the other threads, to me is that not enough? Clearly for some of you it is not enough and you are fed up to the teeth with what has been happening.

    So my way forward is to see if we can make the site a more colligate place, more calm downs not rile ups and hope that feeds through to how the staff perceive posters. That said we can't create a forum utopia and like Slapshot said people do not like their perspectives challenged about anything. But we can at least try.
    tzervoKylerannursoAlBQuirky
  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,795
    edited August 1
    Scot said:
    I did not realise MOP did censorship by stealth, that is worse than stopping the comments on a thread. It allows MOP to create their own narrative from the posters as if the public's will was in line with their own on every issue.

    I have to agree with the poster who questioned were all those articles really that MMORPG related? Some were very "gaming industry bubble" and not my main reason for reading the articles on here. But if it's put up we should be able to comment all the same.

    Having been in charge of more than one guild forum I know it can be a time sink, and we never had the sorts of posts you get on here. I think in some way without good reason that's how I expect us to be here, colligate not at war.

    This is throwing out the barrel because of a few bad apples, even those who fully support the move see them as a minority of posters. We can report, we can block posters, there is moderation on the other threads, to me is that not enough? Clearly for some of you it is not enough and you are fed up to the teeth with what has been happening.

    So my way forward is to see if we can make the site a more colligate place, more calm downs not rile ups and hope that feeds through to how the staff perceive posters. That said we can't create a forum utopia and like Slapshot said people do not like their perspectives challenged about anything. But we can at least try.
    MOP does not always do it stealthily. Some times they do, other times they are quite boastful about it, always with a rationalization that shows their bias of course.

    I totally agree about being colligate (I just learned that word, yay! :D) and posting in good faith, but I think having conversations that are heated up from time to time is not that bad, otherwise threads risk becoming too sterile and posters being paranoid about someone getting too touchy-feely. As always, it is a judgement call how much is too much and it is a challenge, both for us and the mods (or at least it should be).
    Asm0deusAlBQuirky
This discussion has been closed.