California Files Lawsuit Against Activision Blizzard, Alleging Sexual Harrassment, Unequal Pay And '

Kyleran

foxgirl said:

And that the president of Blizz or the head guy of the place would only hire women if they were hot. You know like it's still the 1950's.

Not sure how it is elsewhere but where I work I sometimes wonder if some of this is still going on.

Seems like former supermodels move into finance once their career takes a downturn, especially in areas like sales or marketing. Tech, not so much.

Let's be honest, good looks still factor into many hiring decisions especially in certain fields.  You ever notice some of the medical reps that walk into your local Drs office? (Well, B-4 Covid and they were allowed to)

Theocritus

mcrippins said:

Regardless on if the accusations are true, this hurts Blizzard. Unfortunate in any case.

As a gamer though. do people really stop and say "You know I just cant support WoW because of Blizzard's hiring practices". 99.9999% of the time we have no idea what happens behind the doors of these companies we are giving money to for their games.

Cuddleheart

This is the type of stuff that has always gone on at top of the food chain corporations.  I had a job that required me to live out of state for a few months, so I rented a room in a Town House of a guy who's dad got him a sweet gig at Merrill Lynch.  Seeing this dork interact with low self esteem messes he would bring home was like watching something out of the 50s.  Listening to him regale you with the stories after was worse.  For reference, I'm not an uptight guy and enjoy humor that most people find inappropriate, but this dude made me uncomfortable.

I'm in no way justifying or defending this.  I'm just kinda fascinated by the fact that it seems like a massive portion of people are just now realizing that devs aren't your pals and mega gaming corporations are dirt bags just like every other industry.

FrodoFragins

The suit is the result of a two year investigation.  I don't see any reason to doubt the claims.  It's probably just the tip of the iceberg.

goozmania

FrodoFragins said:

The suit is the result of a two year investigation.  I don't see any reason to doubt the claims.  It's probably just the tip of the iceberg.

A two year investigation from the most corrupt state government in the country.... You forgot that key point.

Tiller

goozmania said:

FrodoFragins said:

The suit is the result of a two year investigation.  I don't see any reason to doubt the claims.  It's probably just the tip of the iceberg.

A two year investigation from the most corrupt state government in the country.... You forgot that key point.

All States have lots of corruption; if you think one or two get a pass, you are mistaken or not an American. I don't live in California because too expensive but If anything at least they have more consumer protection laws in place. Down south you are SOL and on your own.

Ungood

Scot said:

Ungood said:

Scot said:

So that's why I have trouble believing these claims though obviously the site was right to report this. I would also note, presumably every women has resigned from this intolerably atmosphere and is part of the court case? Because if not you have to ask why not? My guess is this is not as widespread as claimants would have us believe but you create more social media drama and therefore a bigger settlement if you say it is. This is far more likely to be down to specific individuals rather than corporate culture, though that still means the women involved deserve a fair settlement for what has happened.

This is like asking why children didn't just quit from the textile mills, or why miners didn't just quit when they were given unsafe and inhumane conditions to live and work in.

Long and short answer, they need money, this is a job, and they will put up with the bullshit for the pay check.

To get that in a more simple easy to process way, this is also why a Cashier does not punch every Karen they meet in the mouth the second they start into a verbal barrage, because they need the money from the job.

I really don't think you can compare the need for a pay check today in America to that faced by children in the 19th century. 

Why not? Did we all suddenly not need money?

Scot said:
But yes, that is a factor, what I find hard to believe is while putting up with it they were not looking for a new job, which in the digital age is extremely easy. Not always easy to get one, but if it was that bad you would keep looking and leave asap. Indeed this may well have happened, if they were only there for months for example, but if we start hearing about years of abuse then there is a question mark.

Digital age or not, getting a job, in your field, in the area you live in, is often times a very limited option.

Also, not everyone has the ability to just pack up and move for a job. NGL, I think you must be very lucky to not need to worry about relocating for a job, but a lot of people in the states live with their parents because they can't afford to pay rent, and thus can't afford to pack up, travel several hundred miles away and pay rent somewhere else for a job.

And, Keep in mind, even a poor paying job in the tech field might still be better than a lot of other job opportunities in that region, that in no way changes that you are being underpaid, overworked, and treated like shit.

Think of all the people that work in Walmart for decades, you think any of them work there because they love the job? 

goozmania

Tiller said:

goozmania said:

FrodoFragins said:

The suit is the result of a two year investigation.  I don't see any reason to doubt the claims.  It's probably just the tip of the iceberg.

A two year investigation from the most corrupt state government in the country.... You forgot that key point.

All States have lots of corruption; if you think one or two get a pass, you are mistaken or not an American. I don't live in California because too expensive but If anything at least they have more consumer protection laws in place. Down south you are SOL and on your own.

That is the most out-of-touch and self defeating argument I have read in a long time.

I also live in California. "I don't live in California...too expensive...consumer protection laws..." It's like you're circling around an epiphany, but you can't quite reach it.

Arglebargle

goozmania said:

FrodoFragins said:

The suit is the result of a two year investigation.  I don't see any reason to doubt the claims.  It's probably just the tip of the iceberg.

A two year investigation from the most corrupt state government in the country.... You forgot that key point.

I think you don't know enough about other state governments...

KnightFalz

Allegations of wrongdoing aren't the proof they seem to be felt by the cyber lynch mobs of today's social media. We'll see what the decision is, assuming it gets to that point.

As far as a negative impacts on Blizzard, I doubt any will persist and may perhaps barely occur to begin with. People have really short memories and gamers are willing to ignore a whole lot so long as what they enjoy keeps coming.

finefluff

You can read the full list of complaints in the lawsuit document: https://aboutblaw.com/YJw.

Paragraph 48 is particularly disturbing.

Iselin

Arglebargle said:

goozmania said:

FrodoFragins said:

The suit is the result of a two year investigation.  I don't see any reason to doubt the claims.  It's probably just the tip of the iceberg.

A two year investigation from the most corrupt state government in the country.... You forgot that key point.

I think you don't know enough about other state governments...

Florida comes to mind. Corruption is an art form there

Scot

Torval said:

Scot said:

Kyleran said:

Pretty tame responses here so far, over on MOP the posters are outraged, outraged I tell you.

It is a pretty foul situation for the employees involved and it is amazing how prevalent it is in the gaming industry.

I've worked in numerous companies over the years and never have witnessed anything nearly as extreme as some of these gaming lawsuits have outlined.

The thing is Kyleran, can we believe it? The majority of our working lives were in times when supposedly this sort of irresponsible behaviour was far wider spread, yet did anyone here see anything like this in the eighties, nineties etc? If things were so bad back then, how can there be corporate sanctioned behaviour like this today when elsewhere people get banned from work cafeterias and libraries because they did not go on a Anti Bullying course?

So that's why I have trouble believing these claims though obviously the site was right to report this. I would also note, presumably every women has resigned from this intolerably atmosphere and is part of the court case? Because if not you have to ask why not? My guess is this is not as widespread as claimants would have us believe but you create more social media drama and therefore a bigger settlement if you say it is. This is far more likely to be down to specific individuals rather than corporate culture, though that still means the women involved deserve a fair settlement for what has happened.

So do you have any trouble believing these claims?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-22/inside-activision-blizzard-s-botched-warcraft-iii-reforged-game

Maybe it's just hard to believe what we don't want to see or acknowledge.

Kyleran said:

Pretty tame responses here so far....

The response to something that goes contrary to the desired narrative in the q-conspiracy libertarian hotbed that is mmorpg where critical thinking was crucified years ago; and you're surprised that response is tame?

Well I would trust the article you linked more if I still played WoW and agreed with it based on my own experience. This legal case falls into that huge area that we all like to comment on, "issues which we have no direct experience of".

I think it is healthy to always question versions of events which you have no direct experience of, regardless of who is telling you what happened. So I don't have faith in the employees or employers version, which I think is the reasonable way to approach this.

I take your point on "what we don't want to see or acknowledge", but I counter that with "what we do want to see and acknowledge". It does seem to me that many people want to believe such allegations, while I am sure you see this as many people not wanting to believe such allegations. The truth as so often happens lies somewhere in between.

But I ask you to think about what seems more reasonable; certain individuals where behaving in this appalling way or this was a "corporate frat boy culture" with every man into it. Bearing in mind many women work there and seemingly have no issues.

Also I would ask you, have you seen anything like this in your working life? So often our own experiences are dismissed as anecdotal, in todays age of media hype and obfuscation I think they are more important than ever.

I assume there are former private actions/tribunals, presumably these women got a fair settlement then? It is likely this state action will be used as a platform to launch more private cases against Activision.

To me the women involved deserve a fair settlement, they may have already got one or be fighting cases now, we don't know. Beyond that to me this goes into media hype and politics unless you think states don't make decisions for political reasons, so there I am rather cynical.

kitarad

finefluff said:

You can read the full list of complaints in the lawsuit document: https://aboutblaw.com/YJw.

Paragraph 48 is particularly disturbing.

Some of what was described hit too close to home. Never had any recourse when I was working aside from little things like using toilet water to make this guys coffee. I hit someone once and that helped a little but the harassment got worse after. Men are so full of themselves that they think you actually enjoy their stupid jokes. God how I hated working with these arseholes.

Cuddleheart

KnightFalz said:

Allegations of wrongdoing aren't the proof they seem to be felt by the cyber lynch mobs of today's social media. We'll see what the decision is, assuming it gets to that point.

As far as a negative impacts on Blizzard, I doubt any will persist and may perhaps barely occur to begin with. People have really short memories and gamers are willing to ignore a whole lot so long as what they enjoy keeps coming.

I have to agree!  It's never a good idea to blindly assume all accusations are true.  A LOT of people have been make to look really foolish by doing this.  Ask Rolling Stone.

I also agree that this event wont, directly, be something that keeps people away in the long term.  The second I saw this story, my first thought was "People will get over this once they have something new to be outraged about. 

That said, this is different from the HK protest thing because there will be a correction by Blizzard.  The inevitable overcorrection and the sterile games that result from it, will however, be the nail in the coffin imo.

Kyleran

Iselin said:

Arglebargle said:

goozmania said:

FrodoFragins said:

The suit is the result of a two year investigation.  I don't see any reason to doubt the claims.  It's probably just the tip of the iceberg.

A two year investigation from the most corrupt state government in the country.... You forgot that key point.

I think you don't know enough about other state governments...

Florida comes to mind. Corruption is an art form there

Ahem, I was gonna say...

But hey, still no state income tax as the government makes bank fleecing tourists

KnightFalz

Cuddleheart said:

I have to agree!  It's never a good idea to blindly assume all accusations are true.  A LOT of people have been make to look really foolish by doing this.  Ask Rolling Stone.

I also agree that this event wont, directly, be something that keeps people away in the long term.  The second I saw this story, my first thought was "People will get over this once they have something new to be outraged about. 

That said, this is different from the HK protest thing because there will be a correction by Blizzard.  The inevitable overcorrection and the sterile games that result from it, will however, be the nail in the coffin imo.

Why would there be an inevitable over correction if there is little to no long-term impact from the lawsuit outcome. Blizzard will take heat for a bit. They will put out something shiny. The majority will no longer care and shortly after no longer remember the lawsuit in any meaningful way.

Blizzard is nowhere close to being in a coffin. There is nowhere for a nail to be driven. Cases like this don't bring down major corporations regardless.

In the worst case scenario the company expresses how very, very sorry they are, a couple sacrificial lambs are slaughtered, and the remaining staff will have to do awareness training. After that penance, if it even gets to that point, it will be yesterday's news and all but forgotten.

MaxBacon

Kyleran said:

Iselin said:

Arglebargle said:

goozmania said:

FrodoFragins said:

The suit is the result of a two year investigation.  I don't see any reason to doubt the claims.  It's probably just the tip of the iceberg.

A two year investigation from the most corrupt state government in the country.... You forgot that key point.

I think you don't know enough about other state governments...

Florida comes to mind. Corruption is an art form there

Ahem, I was gonna say...

But hey, still no state income tax as the government makes bank fleecing tourists

How? Do they get eaten by crocs in the swamps and the gov takes all their valuables?

Scot

The follow up thread on the WoW/Activision issue has had its comments disallowed, we can't have posters actually posting obviously. So have your say on here before this one gets muzzled too.

Ok, not disabled just looks like it is, odd.

Iselin

Kyleran said:

Iselin said:

Arglebargle said:

goozmania said:

FrodoFragins said:

The suit is the result of a two year investigation.  I don't see any reason to doubt the claims.  It's probably just the tip of the iceberg.

A two year investigation from the most corrupt state government in the country.... You forgot that key point.

I think you don't know enough about other state governments...

Florida comes to mind. Corruption is an art form there

Ahem, I was gonna say...

But hey, still no state income tax as the government makes bank fleecing tourists

I was just reading about the ex Senator charged with election fraud because he paid someone $50K to run as an independent in a race just because he had the same last name as the incumbent and would siphon votes from him. It worked too.

That's some creative sleaze.

Utinni

KnightFalz said:

Allegations of wrongdoing aren't the proof they seem to be felt by the cyber lynch mobs of today's social media. We'll see what the decision is, assuming it gets to that point.

As far as a negative impacts on Blizzard, I doubt any will persist and may perhaps barely occur to begin with. People have really short memories and gamers are willing to ignore a whole lot so long as what they enjoy keeps coming.

California SAs are pretty well known for making huge allegations for media attention and in the end their case is shallow. The damage is already done through court of public opinion regardless if any of the parties are proven innocent. This happened recently with Riot CEO Nicolo Laurent with kotaku etc spreading damaging articles calling for resignations only to find out his accuser has a history of trying to pump people for money then crying foul when she gets cut off. The allegations towards Blizzard are a bit more sinister and I'd hope they're not true just for humanities sake but I'm gonna wait until more than just state attorney allegations are in play before frothing at the mouth.

SimonSezz

Had to work with these guys on a harassment issue in game with a friend. They didn't do squat about it and let the harassment continue so I am not surprised at all that this is going on. Apparently Harassment is the norm for Blizz. I can't say I am surprised seeing this considering the harassment that was allowed to continue on in game non stop. These guys deserve everything that they get. I hope they make some arrests.

bcbully

Boss thinks you're cute. You get a raise...

If roles were reversed I bet men would call that sexual privilege. 

Cuddleheart

KnightFalz said:

Why would there be an inevitable over correction if there is little to no long-term impact from the lawsuit outcome. Blizzard will take heat for a bit. They will put out something shiny. The majority will no longer care and shortly after no longer remember the lawsuit in any meaningful way.

They always overcorrect.  Most companies do. It's not a political ideology specific thing, either. 

People were outraged twenty years ago by Janet Jackson for about five minutes, but the overcorrection resonated through media for years. 

I don't read (non-horror)comics, but does anyone even remember what people were mad about that led to the obvious change in direction that has led to a further decline in book sales?  I sure don't.

In a vacuum, this would go away, but I think this is going to resonate through the whole industry - at least in the West.  I also think in ten years most people won't remember why they were angry to begin with.

Horusra

The MeToo era rolls on.