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Has SOE completely lost the plot ?
SpottyGekko
Member EpicPosts: 6,916
SOE seems to be desperately trying to devise strategies to keep their subscribers longer.
The problem is that those strategies do not include any game innovations or expansions. Those strategies seem to be mostly aimed at reducing XP earned (making it take longer to level) and forcing people to group ALL the time (this makes players supposedly form tighter ingame friendships, which means in turn that they will be less likely to leave a game, no matter how badly the game is mangled).
SOE seems to have run out of ideas on how to make their GAMES more appealing to players, so now they are focusing on psychological manipulation and cheap tricks to keep their subscribers. It feels like their prime development spend is on analysing the mechanics of why people play MMO's, and finding ways to exploit human nature to the utmost. Why not just build a better game, surely that will pull in the punters ?
It seems to me that the huge changes that were made to SWG, and were justified by saying it was "better for the game", were not so much driven by a wish to make a better game, but more about making it cheaper to maintain. Fewer Developers needed means more profit margin, and there is no doubt that SWG has been "simplified" in many ways.
Now they are planning a "CU" for EQ2, where, unlike SWG, the players had not asked for it. Making big changes to an MMO a year or 2 after release destroys the sense of continuity. Why spend 4 months grinding up template/class X when it will probably be fundamentally changed in 6 months' time ? Why dedicate your online life to crafting and amassing wealth if your equipment will be made redundant by some arbitrary "CU" a few months down the line ? This surely is not the message you want to send to your potential long-term subscribers ?
Yes, MMO's should evolve, but evolution in the classic sense means a series of small changes and adjustments, not the massive extinction events that SOE perpetrates with their "CU"'s.
They are no longer "the only game in town", as they were in the old EQ days, things have become a lot more competitive. But they seem completely unable to adapt, and refuse to believe that the massive cash cow (that EQ once was) now has died. And they are losing market share bigtime.
The players that grew up playing EQ have become a lot more discerning in their MMO tastes, and have seen and played many more MMO's in the last few years. There is a much wider range of choice in the marketplace now than ever before. A game company cannot expect to mistreat their customers and get away with it indefinitely in this new MMO world.
What SOE have done to SWG and are now planning to do to EQ2 has just made me cancel my station access account. I have finally lost faith...
Comments
No idea. But if you're referring to Patch 22 in SWG all they did was manage to make a whole lot of people quit the game. I won't say most or even half but a lot of people are leaving over this one.
Nerfing XP payout is NOT a good method to increase your game's longevity.
=============================
For more details on what's going on, for the curious, refer to the SWG forums here. It's been discussed ad-nauseum in there.
Several people from my PA have quit the game now. And I've decided to move on to EVE myself.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
SOE are just incredibly arrogant.
Thinking they can pull the rug beneath their player's feet time and time again is unbelievable.
Game developer? Nah, souless cash-cows.
SoE is going the way of IBM, they just can't grasp the future
But IBM did an awesome job of turning it around. Can SoE do the same?
Chris Mattern
lol
But on a serious note the Devs are drawing serious heat over this , i just dont understand why they antagonise there player base
lol
But on a serious note the Devs are drawing serious heat over this , i just dont understand why they antagonise there player base
Because the active subscribers pay them to. Not being snarky here, that's exactly what they're doing. Don't like what the Devs do? Hit the cancel button, if you're not happy and not hitting the cancel button, you're encouraging them to make you unhappy. That's a behavior I personally just don't get.
Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.
Thanks for the oh so ingenious advice.
I already did, and so did half my PA.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
Seeker while blunt has a point. As long as we the players pay and allow them to do things we do not like we deserve what ever kind of treatment we get.
Although patch 22 was temporairly nerfed i firmly beleive it was the result of more then expected canclelations. Some will return others will look at the past few patches, history, obvious problems with communication and decide enough is enough.
I hear eq 2 fixing to get a cu as well. I feel very sorry for yall. Just as you attain where you want to be, have the armor tools spells, expect it all to be different. Not any of it working as it did before. Then expect tons of patches afterwords that seem to be harder and harder to swallow and more and more added unexpected outcomes.
While some continue to accept others move on. It is not a question of jump in ship before it sinks, it is just part and parsal of knowing when to let go.
I do believe the lack of vision direction, creativity is haunting soe currently and they continue to make the mistake of equating content with repititve game play, and making the goal take longer . Whatever that goal is.
Folks start to think that carrot just isn't worth the time or effort, and then you have what is going on there now.
sorta sad...i left after 2 years of playing loved the game i actually lke how the CU was in test center but..i dont know after 2 years and having everything anyone would ever want i just had to slip it aside and cancel. i masterd all hte professions except jedi. i still think its a great game i mean the possible potential is far greater than any game out because you are really allowed control over stuff and i love how hte housing was set out. jtl was a great addition but for some reason after jtl idk what happened. basically my whole PA is now split up friends i have been with for 2 years it was pretty sad the last day i was ingame after a 1 week vacation everyones house in my pa was there but no one wa there it was like a ghost town i was the only one there thanks to dumb decisions by the higher office of soe. though im not an soe hater but this game had and still might have huge potential. but you wont see me much again i only have memories of the past left.
Thanks for the oh so ingenious advice.
I already did, and so did half my PA.
Elnator, as I said (though I think it might've been overlooked) I wasn't trying to be snarky with people, I actually sympathize with the feelings players of SWG are wrestling with. But please understand, I see a great many posts that state, in varying ways and to varying degrees of stating their case, how unhappy they are with changes and what not that SOE has done to their games. And many many many of those posts tend to repeat a common theme, i.e. the Devs are ruining the game play, the players are decidedly unhappy, and if only they'd stop and listen for once said poster will continue his subscription. Yet the subscriper remains, despite being progressively unhappier.
If you did cancel, regardless of how many of your fellows did, then you're to be applauded for having done what many seem virtually unable to do, excercise that bit of free will and determination to actually hurt the Devs right back by taking away the one thing that matters to them. Hopefully this follow up has explained my earlier post a little better.
Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.
I agree with Seeker. I doubt that there will be major positive changes to SWG until people vote with their feet.
I would also like to point out that the teams working on every SOE product are not as utterly insane as the SWG team.
For example, in EQOA a major game altering feature is being added. They started to implement it one way, but the user base went nuts (the change never went live). So they put up a poll, let the players decide what they wanted, and now it looks like they are going to implement something a little diferent (that the players voted for) that will take them a week or two of extra work to implement.
There has also been some talk about the CU that is coming in EQ II. This isn't an enourmous across the board nerf like SWG got. In fact feedback from the test server indicates that most classes are getting a slight buff, if anything (and scouts are getting a major boost, which they badly need).
There are certainly things coming down the pipe in EQ II and EQ that seem poorly thought out (to me at least). But I don't think those teams are quite the gibbereing nut jobs that the SWG team seems to be.
Cheers!
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
As a former 4 year + EQ1 player, I can attest to the crazy changes Sony will make to a game to make it "better". I'll highlight a few of the changes I experienced on EQ1. Most of these changes occured after Sony assumed complete control of EQ1 from the original developer (Verant). (Note: If I get something wrong here guys, please forgive me. I can't remember exactly when these changes started happening. I am pretty sure they are the responsibility of Sony however and precluded any input from Brad McQuaid [spelling]). Here are some of the changes I experienced under Sony:
1. The creation of transport books that permited all character classes to travel to different zones instantly. The original game design gave that power only to wizards and druids. Clerics were given the ability to gate. Instant zone travel was originally a class specific power. Other classes had to suffer and travel the hard way (hard core from my perspective).
2. The creation of a bazaar that allowed all players to set up stores and trade. Prior to that time, player buying and selling was haphazard at best. When you had a magic item, boy was it hot!!!
3. As in item 1 above, the merging of classes in such a way to permit more overlap between class types. For example: giving Paladins that power to Rez. That ability was strictly the property of clerics in the original game. The merging of classes was a major deviation from the original design.
4. The harsh nerfing of character classes on PvP servers without regard to players who had put years in character development. The most brutal in my experience: Reducing direct damage spells by over 1/2 when used against other players. In my case, I had a 56 level Wiz on Sullon Zek that I had spent over 2 years developing (I'm a busy person). One day I read the news that my two years of work was rewarded with a major removal of PvP power. I quit EQ1 the day I read that news.
When EQ2 came out, I cancelled my Eve Online subscription like a fool. I spent 3 months playing EQ2 until I realized the following:
1. Sony had created a game that was nothing more than a grinding carebear experience. The harsh penalties associated with death in EQ1 were removed. Group experience was accompanied by group experience penalties.
2. Chests appeared out of nowhere. They just popped up! No realistic looting of the body.
3. Everything was just too controlled and mitigated. You are neither uber or weak, just always somewhere in the middle with everyone else. Whether you are level 40 or level 10, it doesn't matter. Who cares? No one else cares and you don't care. You don't care because IT DOESN'T MATTER.
4. Plastic, overly controlled, and contrived to appeal to every whining player complaint that was ever made in EQ1. The result? A game that caters to every whim and therefore has no "Edge". If I had one major criticism of EQ2, its that the game lacks edge. I found myself logging off and not really caring if I logged back on again.
Today, I again play a game made by a small little known company: Eve Online. Like Verant had with EQ1, the designers of Eve (CCP) have a unique vision that is loaded with quality. It has a special feeling. EQ1 once had a special feeling. Sony sucked the feeling out of EQ1 and were not able to create create it in EQ2.
Finally, Blizzard wacked Sony a good one. They had it coming.
Don't blame the Dev's for SWG's troubles.
The developers that work for a big company like SOE have very little control over the direction of the game and the nature of the big changes that are made.
They are told what to do by the management team (Marketing, Accounting and the CEO). Management analyze the performance of the game (cost versus profit), the changes in subscription levels, etc.
If they see a declining subscriber rate, they "analyze the figures" and consult with the "game theory specialsists" to devise a plan to keep subscribers longer. Then they call in the Dev's and tell them to make it so.
Dev's like Greenmarine probably care about their area of responsibility, and more than likely have lot's of good ideas they would like to implement, but their workload is assigned from above, it's not their choice what they get to work on.
Have all the Dev's been fired for incompetence after the Pub22 mess ? Of course not. Why ? They were just doing what they were told to do, that's why.
So go easy on the Dev's, they are the poor SoB's caught between the players and management. No wonder so many of the original team have quit.
I just love people who dont want to blame the developers. I am willing to bet that the developers have alot more control then you think. Most marketting people and officers know zero 0000 about the games. Just give an order and its up the development team to put it in place. And I am willing to bet that alot of those orders are quite vague.
Remember holocrons? Raph "I know the gamers mind" Koster admitted that was all his idea in an old post. He did it. He wasnt marketing. I am willing to bet marketing came along and said "We need a jedi to prove the system works" and Koster said "righty-o old chap" and proceeded to make the single worst mistake in SWG history. He could have given one guy jedihood to prove the system works. He could have altered a few people's requirements. But no. He gave us holocrons. All other problems we have now started with that one thing.
So dont blame them if you want but I put the blame on SOE entirely. No one is without guilt. All hands are bloody. Developers, marketing, and officers.
Kai
IT doesn't matter what SOE does to SWG... it's a big wig name, meaning that the same reason you joined in the first place is still there - it's the only Star wars MMO. It doesn't matter if it sucks, it's profitable and they can do whatever they want to it because people are sheep and are fans of the star wars franchise...
Don't get me wrong there are a lot of good movie based games... just compaired to the mass majority out there, is a small percentage. You guys hit yourselves with rocks by buying a movie name in the first place.
I mostly agree with you. Except that SoE is the most innovations and expansions friendly company...and since you post this message, there is another SWG expension...while Wookie is still fresh in the mind of everyone...and no doubts peoples will complain that SoE is attacking their wallets with that many expansions rather then simply say thank you.
SoE is not the Design extraordinaire company, they hire those and then they spoil them to the point they stop been imaginative...yet SoE is ready to redo as the situation require.
The only company that compete with SoE innovation wise and expension wise, is NCsoft...and those expensions are free! (And SoE is pretty jealous of every praise we send toward NCsoft...EXTREMELY jealous...not a little...no...it is like a generalised disease...praising NCsoft always get SoE folks uneasy, jealous and compliant...which is good...I love competition...especially when NCsoft charges us, players, a lot less fees (expensions are free and no advertising spam)). Mythic might be challenging as well on the expension and innovation wise...but far less then NCsoft...and they cost a lot of money for less innovations then SoE...but I dont hold it against them, Mythic is a great company...just not in the same category of the others 2 IMO.
If someone would tell me that it is SoE employee, paid full time, that manage to convince Cryptic that the Hamidon was a good idea (pretending to be players or whatever), I would just *nod* and find it quite logical. Hopefully Cryptic will understand that the Hamidon is a mistake on nearly every aspect you can consider it...adding 10 levels and not renewing it would be an efficient ways of killing raiding without actually removing anything you give players.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
You can call it an expansion, but its not. Its a digital download. They call it an expansion too, but its not. It does "expand" onto the game, but typically with an mmorpg an expansion is extensive. This is not a large upgrade, rather it reflects what they are doing with EQ2 which is releasing a portion of what should be included into an expansion as a cheaper digital download, thus earning potentially 5-10 dollars extra. IN MY OPINION they did not re-coup all of their customers from the last screw up and and they want to pull in extra funding asap.
City of Heroes now has 5 "issues" which are large content upgrades and all were free. World of Warcraft has released some rather nice additions for free. Dark Age of Camelot releases new content for free.
Go ahead though, let SoE milk you for as much money as they can. If it works out then other mmorpgs will follow suit and I will be a very bitter man.
Well...your hate of SoE obviously blind you. Yes, SoE is evil. No I will not play any current SoE product with my precious free time.
But thinking that WoW is even on the same list as CoH or DAoC...LOL. WoW expensions are the job of 1 programmer and 1 artist at most, maybe part time. Nothing to compare with. DAoC work hard, and bring good stuff, but they do it slowly and it is usually not as innovative...they got 1 big innovative burst, it was at their launch. Since then, DAoC is the most conservative product on the market(with the exception of WoW, but lack of evolution is not been conservative). Which is not bad.
And CoH...*start looking sheepingly in love* *then turn red with anger* The HAMIDON! There is 1 spawn to much in that game...and I like to blame it on SoE covert spies posing as players and infiltrating the CoH community. I have no proofs, but it does me great good to blame SoE for this bad features and any lame thing the awesome, cute, inspiring, dreamlike staff of Cryptic does.
But thinking SoE dont bring a lot of expensions with TONS of content is been blinded.
An expension for SoE prolly cost a LOT of money. For CoH it must cost decent money, which they recoup with the subscription income. For DAoC I suspect it cost even more money then for SoE, but maybe not. For WoW...let's me see...$10/hour X 2 staff X 40 hours X 3 weeks (part time) X 12 month...WoW is cheap...freaking cheap.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Yeah you are right, because there are SOOOOOOOOOO many quests and thorough tasks to do. Why, just today I saw this guy with an "i" above his head, so I spoke to him and I got a quest to take something to his sick father! So I made the delivery and chose another task, this one was WAY more interesting, it was a "quest" for me to take a data pad to someone. With my heart racing I ran to another city to make my delivery ASAP, the npc was very specific saying it needed to arrive there asap, thats why they stand there all dumbfounded. So I get there, and I choose another quest, this time I am making a delivery of a battery, its gotta be there ASAP too! So I hop to it!. I get to my destination and choose another quest.... wait... I dont want to deliver anymore....
So I find a mission terminal, it says I need to kill some things because its causing havoc. I run over to kill such and such, return to repeat something similiar 100 times over. Tons of content my arse.
Your insulting me saying I have "Blind hatred". I have very good reasons as to why I will not deal with that company anymore. I have even posted screenshots in another thread. You however DO have a blind hatred towards WoW. This thread is not about WoW. Its about SoE. I brought them in as examples, they have alot more content. I dont care how many planets are in the game, most are frickin barren with randomly placed mobs. The worlds are typically empty except for a few cities. JTLS while great in idea does not turn over well with the current use. Its just mundane space combat with no real goals. I dont play WoW. But it IS on that list. You HAVE to deal with it. It DOES have free content upgrades, and IS manned by more than 1 programmer/artist on part time. Your Blind hatred is ridiculous. You my friend are what we call a hipocrit, however in this case my dislike of SoE is justified by earlier posts I have made.
Please dont let your dislike of WoW and need to insult it spoil this SoE related thread. My typing/grammar skills may not be the best, but you need serious improvement so I dont have to decipher your meanings. I dont see how SoE is so innovative or "expansion friendly". They buy their games off of development teams mostly. Thats how EQ originally started, I dont see SoE's EQ2 doing so hot though. Seems SoE's "innovation" is mostly dumbing things down to match other mmos.
Soon there will be only one mmoprg left WoW AND REST BITE THE DUST Blizzard will rule them all.
Dont you hate me now :P
Oh would they love to have that many players as WoW have but all mmoprgs would want to have that many as WoW have:P
They must do something very good to have millions of players playing wow :P
Sony lost it they better stick to hardware and let blizzard conquer the game world:P
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
You want to know what SoE is all about then simply look at the perspective of one of chief guys there, Raph Koster.
Here are a few quotes from his website:
Never put anything on the client, the client is in the hands of the enemy.
A roleplay mandated world is essentially going to have to be a fascist state.
Servers only crash and do not restart when you go out of town.
People act like jerks more easily online because anonymity is intoxicating.
The more responsive an admin is to user feedback of a given type, the more of that type the admin will get.
www.legendmud.org/raph
I think most of you will be pretty shocked as to what he really thinks of MMorg players as a whole. In the early days of SWG this website almost caused a revolution among the paying subscribers.