Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

What is up with GPU Prices?

13

Comments

  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,786
    Anyone hear of a price drop on video cards.  I was able to get a 3080 Ti at microcenter at 3:30 as no one had bought them out.  The price was 200 over Msrp.  More than I would normally pay but given the market I am reasonably happy.  Plus I still have 30 days to take it back if the market is coming back down
    Kyleran

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,348
    MMOman101 said:
    Anyone hear of a price drop on video cards.  I was able to get a 3080 Ti at microcenter at 3:30 as no one had bought them out.  The price was 200 over Msrp.  More than I would normally pay but given the market I am reasonably happy.  Plus I still have 30 days to take it back if the market is coming back down
    Ethereum has lost more than half of its value in the last month and a half.  That's what was driving the big spike in GPU prices.  New Egg now has quite a few video cards for about double their MSRP, which is still a lot of money, but quite an improvement.

    Brick and mortar stores typically have better availability of GPUs during mining shortages like this because it's much harder for miners to go buy them all from such shops.
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,786
    Quizzical said:
    MMOman101 said:
    Anyone hear of a price drop on video cards.  I was able to get a 3080 Ti at microcenter at 3:30 as no one had bought them out.  The price was 200 over Msrp.  More than I would normally pay but given the market I am reasonably happy.  Plus I still have 30 days to take it back if the market is coming back down
    Ethereum has lost more than half of its value in the last month and a half.  That's what was driving the big spike in GPU prices.  New Egg now has quite a few video cards for about double their MSRP, which is still a lot of money, but quite an improvement.

    Brick and mortar stores typically have better availability of GPUs during mining shortages like this because it's much harder for miners to go buy them all from such shops.
    For a very long time the stores near me would be sold out at open.  People would start waiting in line 2-4 hours before open to get the cards.  I was really surprised to still see them there later in the day.  

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,400
    edited June 2021
    China does like 65% of worldwide bitcoin mining and they have had a huge crackdown on mining in that they told huge mining operations to shut down period due to power concerns.  I don't see these companies arguing with the CCP. 

    These miners will need to comply or move out of the country.
    GdemamiKyleran[Deleted User]

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    edited June 2021
    Asm0deus said:
    China does like 65% of worldwide bitcoin mining and they have had a huge crackdown on mining in that they told huge mining operations to shut down period due to power concerns.  I don't see these companies arguing with the CCP. 

    These miners will need to comply or move out of the country.
    I've seen a point / counterpoint to the statement that this will affect GPU availability.

    The first is that Bitcoin hasn't been mined with GPUs in a long while. It's been special purpose ASICs for a few years now -  the complexity of mining BTC has increased to the point where run of the mill GPUs just aren't economical any more.

    So maybe it won't affect the GPU situation, at least directly.

    On the other hand:

    BTC is THE de facto crypto currency. So much so, that many of the other currencies that are still mined on GPUs, are eventually traded out to BTC. So anything that affects BTC will trickle over to these other currencies that are still mined via GPUs.

    I would say anecdotal evidence points to the latter being the case: I'm starting to see inventory - which means prices should start to drift soon as well. But unless we start seeing used cards get dumped en masse and the gray market really pick up, it may take a while for retail prices to actually correct even after inventory stabilizes.

    The current running rumor (or joke, depending on how you take it) is that a lot of the BTC mining companies (those with the warehouses full of specialty mining ASICS that could pretty much use dedicated power plants) are planning on moving mainly to Texas.
    Kyleran[Deleted User]
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,348
    edited June 2021
    I find it very unlikely that China would crack down on bitcoin mining in particular as opposed to cryptocurrency mining more broadly.  I would expect that Bitcoin mining on ASICs will tend to use far less power per dollar of hardware cost than Ethereum mining on GPUs.
    Kyleran
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,887
    Quizzical said:
    I find it very unlikely that China would crack down on bitcoin mining in particular as opposed to cryptocurrency mining more broadly.  I would expect that Bitcoin mining on ASICs will tend to use far less power per dollar of hardware cost than Ethereum mining on GPUs.
    I think it's more like China cracking down largest farms, which would be mostly operating Bitcoin ASICs.
    Gdemami
     
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,400
    edited June 2021
    Quizzical said:
    I find it very unlikely that China would crack down on bitcoin mining in particular as opposed to cryptocurrency mining more broadly.  I would expect that Bitcoin mining on ASICs will tend to use far less power per dollar of hardware cost than Ethereum mining on GPUs.

    They are cracking down on crypto farming period I don't think they care if those companies are farming bitcoin eth or w/e.  I am sure you got the point of what I posted especially if you looked over the article so try not to obfuscate.

    Point is all these crypto farms are energy hogs which china has decided is a danger to them etc etc..

    They have even ordered power companies to notify them of  abnormally large power demands etc of their clients so they can try and track these farm that try to  go "underground" so to speak.

    btw it's a fact it has had a huge, huge impact on gpu prices in china in that they went down drastically not just my opinion or anecdotal evidence either.
    [Deleted User]Gdemami

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    edited July 2021
    Quizzical said:
    I find it very unlikely that China would crack down on bitcoin mining in particular as opposed to cryptocurrency mining more broadly.  I would expect that Bitcoin mining on ASICs will tend to use far less power per dollar of hardware cost than Ethereum mining on GPUs.
    Yeah but you pack a warehouse (or 10) full of them and that's still a lot of power.



    It's reached industrial scale in China.

    That said - it's a crypto-wide mining ban that the CCP instituted, in addition to blacklisting some of the larger exchanges.
    Asm0deus[Deleted User]
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    I received an email from the YuanPay Group inviting me to register and open an account in preparation for the December 17opening of the Chinese government backed crypto. They’re promising a 500% return in 3 months.

    crazy shit
    Ridelynn

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,496
    laserit said:
    I received an email from the YuanPay Group inviting me to register and open an account in preparation for the December 17opening of the Chinese government backed crypto. They’re promising a 500% return in 3 months.

    crazy shit
    Don't bet too much on this. The entire point of a centralized digital Yuan is so the government can better control currency fluctuations so prevalent in other crypto currency.

    Can they pull it off, who can say?




     

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Kyleran said:
    laserit said:
    I received an email from the YuanPay Group inviting me to register and open an account in preparation for the December 17opening of the Chinese government backed crypto. They’re promising a 500% return in 3 months.

    crazy shit
    Don't bet too much on this. The entire point of a centralized digital Yuan is so the government can better control currency fluctuations so prevalent in other crypto currency.

    Can they pull it off, who can say?




     
    500% is crazy shit, but there’s a lot of crazy shit happening these days.

    I’ll take the “if something sounds too good to be true” myself ;)

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,496
    laserit said:
    Kyleran said:
    laserit said:
    I received an email from the YuanPay Group inviting me to register and open an account in preparation for the December 17opening of the Chinese government backed crypto. They’re promising a 500% return in 3 months.

    crazy shit
    Don't bet too much on this. The entire point of a centralized digital Yuan is so the government can better control currency fluctuations so prevalent in other crypto currency.

    Can they pull it off, who can say?




     
    500% is crazy shit, but there’s a lot of crazy shit happening these days.

    I’ll take the “if something sounds too good to be true” myself ;)
    Well, I've been totally wrong on Crypto so far, so probably better if he doubles down instead.

    ;)

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,786
    The thing that “worries” me is that once the miners stop buying the cards because of something better being released or government regulation or what not, we may still find it really hard to get GPUs.  No one mines on an Xbox or a PS5 and try and find those at MSRP. A lot of people have been scalping shoes and clothes and tickets.  Once they move in it is tough to kick them out.  

    I hope prices move back to normal but anything can be artificially inflated if huge portions of the stock are purchased for the express purpose of reselling at a large mock-up.

    Ridelynn

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,348
    MMOman101 said:
    The thing that “worries” me is that once the miners stop buying the cards because of something better being released or government regulation or what not, we may still find it really hard to get GPUs.  No one mines on an Xbox or a PS5 and try and find those at MSRP. A lot of people have been scalping shoes and clothes and tickets.  Once they move in it is tough to kick them out.  

    I hope prices move back to normal but anything can be artificially inflated if huge portions of the stock are purchased for the express purpose of reselling at a large mock-up.

    If the miners become convinced that GPU mining is dead for a while, then they sell their cards and there's a glut.  That's what happened with the last two mining shortages.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,348
    The console chip shortage is because AMD can't get nearly as many wafers from TSMC as they want, and the console chips probably provide the lowest profit per wafer.  They're surely contractually obligated to provide some particular number of chips to Microsoft and Sony in fixed time frames, but for any wafers where AMD gets to choose what they want to produce beyond what they're obligated to supply to particular business partners, they're going to want to make more Zen 3 chiplets, as those give a massively larger profit margin than any of their other parts.
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,786
    edited July 2021
    Quizzical said:
    MMOman101 said:
    The thing that “worries” me is that once the miners stop buying the cards because of something better being released or government regulation or what not, we may still find it really hard to get GPUs.  No one mines on an Xbox or a PS5 and try and find those at MSRP. A lot of people have been scalping shoes and clothes and tickets.  Once they move in it is tough to kick them out.  

    I hope prices move back to normal but anything can be artificially inflated if huge portions of the stock are purchased for the express purpose of reselling at a large mock-up.

    If the miners become convinced that GPU mining is dead for a while, then they sell their cards and there's a glut.  That's what happened with the last two mining shortages.
    I am not sure we this will happen again.  The past is the best indicator of the future but it does not guarantee the same results.  

    For one it may become more viable to mine with a different device but it may not be so much better that they dump their old cards.  If that happens the old cards will still have value to them and they may not replace them.  There will be a price where buying new cards won’t be a viable business plan running the ones you have will be better than the hassle of selling the cards.  

    Not saying this is the future.  Just that it is a possible outcome.  

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,786
    Quizzical said:
    The console chip shortage is because AMD can't get nearly as many wafers from TSMC as they want, and the console chips probably provide the lowest profit per wafer.  They're surely contractually obligated to provide some particular number of chips to Microsoft and Sony in fixed time frames, but for any wafers where AMD gets to choose what they want to produce beyond what they're obligated to supply to particular business partners, they're going to want to make more Zen 3 chiplets, as those give a massively larger profit margin than any of their other parts.
    The chip shortage is not the entire story.  When people are buying them by the thousands it creates the inflation we have seen.  There are always thousands of PS5 on eBay.  There are a dozen for sale on Craigslist just in my city alone.  When the second hand market is tens of thousands it is greater than just a chip shortage.  

    I am not sure we will see the video card norm.  You see this behavior across our society now at every turn.  Artificial scarcity because of scalping.  

    My son plays the Pokémon TCG.  It happens there.  It is across all boundaries now and has permeated anything that people will pay greater than MSRP for.  

    For a very long time geek culture was immune to this.  It only occurred in the ultra hip and limited.  You might be right that things go back to normal. It would not surprise me.  I can definitely see a future where it does not and we have artificial inflation in segments of the gaming culture.
    Gdemami

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,348
    It's not that mining will move to different devices.  If cryptocurrency values drop precipitiously, then it becomes unprofitable to mine them at all.  After a peak price of around $1300 early in 2018, it dropped to under $100 later that year and stayed low enough to be unprofitable to use GPUs to mine it until late last year.  That kind of drop in price would scare off the miners again.

    And even at $100, Ethereum would still be massively overvalued.  The ultimate price of it will be $0.
    Champienurso
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,348
    MMOman101 said:
    Quizzical said:
    The console chip shortage is because AMD can't get nearly as many wafers from TSMC as they want, and the console chips probably provide the lowest profit per wafer.  They're surely contractually obligated to provide some particular number of chips to Microsoft and Sony in fixed time frames, but for any wafers where AMD gets to choose what they want to produce beyond what they're obligated to supply to particular business partners, they're going to want to make more Zen 3 chiplets, as those give a massively larger profit margin than any of their other parts.
    The chip shortage is not the entire story.  When people are buying them by the thousands it creates the inflation we have seen.  There are always thousands of PS5 on eBay.  There are a dozen for sale on Craigslist just in my city alone.  When the second hand market is tens of thousands it is greater than just a chip shortage.  

    I am not sure we will see the video card norm.  You see this behavior across our society now at every turn.  Artificial scarcity because of scalping.  

    My son plays the Pokémon TCG.  It happens there.  It is across all boundaries now and has permeated anything that people will pay greater than MSRP for.  

    For a very long time geek culture was immune to this.  It only occurred in the ultra hip and limited.  You might be right that things go back to normal. It would not surprise me.  I can definitely see a future where it does not and we have artificial inflation in segments of the gaming culture.
    If there were plenty of PS5s available at MSRP, you wouldn't see them at inflated prices on Ebay for long.  The only reason for such scalping is that there is a shortage.
    KyleranAsm0deus[Deleted User]
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,887
    MMOman101 said:
    Quizzical said:
    The console chip shortage is because AMD can't get nearly as many wafers from TSMC as they want, and the console chips probably provide the lowest profit per wafer.  They're surely contractually obligated to provide some particular number of chips to Microsoft and Sony in fixed time frames, but for any wafers where AMD gets to choose what they want to produce beyond what they're obligated to supply to particular business partners, they're going to want to make more Zen 3 chiplets, as those give a massively larger profit margin than any of their other parts.
    The chip shortage is not the entire story.  When people are buying them by the thousands it creates the inflation we have seen.  There are always thousands of PS5 on eBay.  There are a dozen for sale on Craigslist just in my city alone.  When the second hand market is tens of thousands it is greater than just a chip shortage.  

    I am not sure we will see the video card norm.  You see this behavior across our society now at every turn.  Artificial scarcity because of scalping.  

    My son plays the Pokémon TCG.  It happens there.  It is across all boundaries now and has permeated anything that people will pay greater than MSRP for.  

    For a very long time geek culture was immune to this.  It only occurred in the ultra hip and limited.  You might be right that things go back to normal. It would not surprise me.  I can definitely see a future where it does not and we have artificial inflation in segments of the gaming culture.
    Scalping only works if manufacturer can't or won't increase production until everyone gets theirs at MSRP.

    Right now GPU manufacturers have a reason for not increasing production (there's no capacity available). Also manufacturers of collectibles always have a reason for not increasing production too much (it's a collectible so the value hinges on manufacturer not flooding the market with them). But for most of the time and most of the products scalping can't work because you'd just see the manufacturer producing as many units as necessary until every buyer can buy as many as they want at MSRP.
    QuizzicalGdemami
     
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,348
    As Vrika and Nyctelios said, a lot of times that there is a shortage of some collectible item, it's because the manufacturer wants for there to be a shortage to drive prices up.  The GPU vendors don't want for there to be a shortage.  They don't benefit from people buying their GPUs and reselling them for far more.  They benefit from selling more GPUs.  Their goal is to make enough to satisfy demand and keep them in stock at MSRP without producing too many and having a glut that they can't sell.

    With GPUs, it's not guaranteed that the salient shortage is in wafers to produce GPU chips themselves, though that is surely limited.  The supply of GDDR6 (and especially GDDR6X) memory is finite, which may or may not be a limiting factor.  Sometimes the shortage can be of some random component on the board that every GPU needs but most people don't even realize is there.
    Gdemami
  • AethaerynAethaeryn Member RarePosts: 3,149
    laserit said:
    Aethaeryn said:
    I was in the queue for EVGA cards.  I got an email for a 3060 but missed the 8 hours window because of work!

    They are coming out with their new 3060ti 3070/ti 3080/ti tomorrow I think. These are the RHS? ones (reduced Hash Rate?)

    That queue seemed like my best shot.  I am still in for other cards so will wait and see what happens.  I would like a 3060ti.
    How long were you in the que? I put my hat in for a 3080 or a 3090 back in November and I still haven’t received an email:(
    Sorry for the late reply.

    I entered :  
    12G-P5-3657-KR2/25/2021 10:01:08 AM PT

    Was notified May 31st.

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    Good luck with the queue, here are mine:

    08G-P5-3751-KR10/29/2020 9:11:19 AM PTNo
    08G-P5-3663-KL12/1/2020 11:55:45 AM PTNo


  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,412
    GPU prices are going to go back up soon. Crypto prices are recovering after China banned their mining in a single province. This shows there is resistance to government action. It's also in a time when the money supply has increased over 40% and the current powers are talking about continuously increasing the money supply beyond the increase in productive capacity. So the demand for crypto and other securities is still there.
    I think Ethereum moving to proof of stake will be the thing that stabilizes GPU prices.
    Gdemami
Sign In or Register to comment.