Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Blockchain Is The New Cash Shop

ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 15,274
edited June 8 in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
We have seen many iterations of dodgy ways to fund a MMORPG, starting with cash shops, though some would say the pre-order takes that crown. Since then we have seen everything from loot boxes to crowd funding, some which are inherently more dubious than others but all of which have many examples of being used in an abusive manner.

Having linked our gaming to gambling, gaming studios now want to link our gaming to cryptocurrency commence. According to some elements of the gaming media this is "an exciting time", it was the blinkered forward thinking of that phrase that made me start this thread. When will the gaming media wake up to this, likely never as apathy has been their overall attitude towards the changes we have seen over the years. That said, have we as players not also been lazy in kicking back at being treat like cash cows?

Now I know some see potential benefits, such as content creators (real content creators) with the likes of a Minecraft style game being paid by players for their contribution. These changes have always had a plus side though, it is the overall negative that has damaged the way we play. Even here though I would point out players have been happy to supply their creation for free, is making this all about the money you get what we want gaming to be about? Going back to cash shops, a flat fee was replaced with a "buy everything in the game" approach. Now Blockchain games are going to turn us into venal merchants who only care for the coin we gather. Where is the gaming ethos there?

The dangers of blockchain to gaming are mainly an exaggeration of what we have already seen. We have talked on here before of the importance of items being bound to your account and the way "skin economies" can distort what gaming should be about. Now you will eventually be able to use your item from one game to purchase an item in another game and so on. This further commercialisation of gaming will turn players into mini cash-shops, completing the circle that cash shops started when introduced.

Another issue that arises is that Blockchain "players" do not like differences between themselves and other players apart from what they have "earned". That means classes and power lists will go the way of the dodo, bitcoin games will want a banality in character generation never seen before. Apart from  power ups and P2P, as long as it can be earned that's OK, here you see the worst aspects of gaming being made a priority. I don't have an issue with cosmetics, but if you do bitcoin welcomes in a new era of cosmetics, as these games only exist for what you can buy and sell.

"Playing" in an enterprise based on cryptocurrency is a whole other issue, I see it as unstable ground, but I realise many do not. But that's an issue we have covered here in a number of threads. I did note that in articles about blockchain games, blockchain casinos were covered, which rather shows you where gaming is now.

Even supporters of these developments have spotted potential issues, such as the community can get very contentious when gaming is about what money you are making. Remember how bad your MMO community can get at times, well a lot more so. Their other questions seem to all be about if there is enough money in this for them, gaming has internalised the mindset of gold sellers into its players, that was sad to see.

In summery: Blockchain is the latest example of bad business practice in gaming, which will just like cash shops adversely change the face of MMOs as we know them.

Deathkon1GdemamiSpiiderlaxieKyleranMendelChampiemaskedweaselUngoodklash2defand 1 other.
«134

Comments

  • Deathkon1Deathkon1 Member UncommonPosts: 150
    edited June 8
    Scot said:
    We have seen many iterations of dodgy ways to fund a MMORPG, starting with cash shops, though some would say the pre-order takes that crown. Since then we have seen everything from loot boxes to crowd funding, some which are inherently more dubious than others but all of which have many examples of being used in an abusive manner.

    Having linked our gaming to gambling, gaming studios now want to link our gaming to cryptocurrency commence. According to some elements of the gaming media this is "an exciting time", it was the blinkered forward thinking of that phrase that made me start this thread. When will the gaming media wake up to this, likely never as apathy has been their overall attitude towards the changes we have seen over the years. That said, have we as players not also been lazy in kicking back at being treat like cash cows?

    Now I know some see potential benefits, such as content creators (real content creators) with the likes of a Minecraft style game being paid by players for their contribution. These changes have always had a plus side though, it is the overall negative that has damaged the way we play. Even here though I would point out players have been happy to supply their creation for free, is making this all about the money you get what we want gaming to be about? Going back to cash shops, a flat fee was replaced with a "buy everything in the game" approach. Now Blockchain games are going to turn us into venal merchants who only care for the coin we gather. Where is the gaming ethos there?

    The dangers of blockchain to gaming are mainly an exaggeration of what we have already seen. We have talked on here before of the importance of items being bound to your account and the way "skin economies" can distort what gaming should be about. Now you will eventually be able to use your item from one game to purchase an item in another game and so on. This further commercialisation of gaming will turn players into mini cash-shops, completing the circle that cash shops started when introduced.

    Another issue that arises is that Blockchain "players" do not like differences between themselves and other players apart from what they have "earned". That means classes and power lists will go the way of the dodo, bitcoin games will want a banality in character generation never seen before. Apart from  power ups and P2P, as long as it can be earned that's OK, here you see the worst aspects of gaming being made a priority. I don't have an issue with cosmetics, but if you do bitcoin welcomes in a new era of cosmetics, as these games only exist for what you can buy and sell.

    "Playing" in an enterprise based on cryptocurrency is a whole other issue, I see it as unstable ground, but I realise many do not. But that's an issue we have covered here in a number of threads. I did note that in articles about blockchain games, blockchain casinos were covered, which rather shows you where gaming is now.

    Even supporters of these developments have spotted potential issues, such as the community can get very contentious when gaming is about what money you are making. Remember how bad your MMO community can get at times, well a lot more so. Their other questions seem to all be about if there is enough money in this for them, gaming has internalised the mindset of gold sellers into its players, that was sad to see.

    In summery: Blockchain is the latest example of bad business practice in gaming, which will just like cash shops adversely change the face of MMOs as we know them.

    I love the fact on how professionally detailed this is from your view and how well typed this was, on another note money makes the world go round until the nukes fly sadly there is no right or wrong in most cases though the buy everything approach is um a no lol, but with how people labeling buying inventory space/bank space pay2win even when there's other ways to bypass and minimize the need for such purchases in a game it doesn't surprise me people want to try different ways to fund their games, very lovely summary, also they will never learn sadly when it comes to learning to not treating us like cash cows
    Gdemami
    Eye Of The Storm And Ground Zero At Your Service, This Life Is My Party I'll Die When I Want To And The Worlds Stuck With Me For Another 90 Years So.... Good Luck With That

    ───────────────────────────────────────

    Music Updated 
    https://biturl.top/ie2ii2
  • SpiiderSpiider Member RarePosts: 944
    Blockchain is the new tulips market.
    GdemamiScotKyleranMendel

    No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.

  • Deathkon1Deathkon1 Member UncommonPosts: 150
    edited June 8
    Spiider said:
    Blockchain is the new tulips market.
    Pretty much an offshoot of a cash shop but with a hint of cancer pfff lol, evolution **Flex**
    Wargfoot
    Eye Of The Storm And Ground Zero At Your Service, This Life Is My Party I'll Die When I Want To And The Worlds Stuck With Me For Another 90 Years So.... Good Luck With That

    ───────────────────────────────────────

    Music Updated 
    https://biturl.top/ie2ii2
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 1,868
    Gaming has always been all about the money for those providing them, save for the few that actually put out their work for free. For profit companies are for profit.

    As such, it is pointless to raise as a factor as this always was, is, and will be.

    This particular means of making profit didn't sound like something I'd be interested in, so I'll stick with the tried and true purchase and subscribe model when available, and buy to play when not.

    If players feel it must not come to pass, the time is now to build a unified front against it. The only way to void a marketing model is to deprive it of revenue. Failing that it will establish a foothold and flourish from there.

    Essentially, it's f2p all over again. If players had banded together against that model it would have been deemed nonviable and abandoned.

    So, how set against it are you?
    Gdemami
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 15,274
    edited June 8
    Gaming has always been all about the money for those providing them, save for the few that actually put out their work for free. For profit companies are for profit.

    As such, it is pointless to raise as a factor as this always was, is, and will be.

    This particular means of making profit didn't sound like something I'd be interested in, so I'll stick with the tried and true purchase and subscribe model when available, and buy to play when not.

    If players feel it must not come to pass, the time is now to build a unified front against it. The only way to void a marketing model is to deprive it of revenue. Failing that it will establish a foothold and flourish from there.

    Essentially, it's f2p all over again. If players had banded together against that model it would have been deemed nonviable and abandoned.

    So, how set against it are you?
    The problem is you are not going to be able to avoid this by just not being interested in it. Just like cash shops it will ring in sweeping changes across gaming, not just MMOs. I won't even try such games and I advocate we all speak out against them, but unless we have a loot box style revolt that will do little good. I should point out that loot boxes where somewhat curtailed, they did not disappear.

    So the only solution long term to this is a legal one, already gambling in gaming is being recognised as detrimental by governments. The addictive effect of blockchain making you think you are making money may be tagged on to that. But that starts now with players talking out against this just like they are about gambling in MMOs.
    Gdemami
  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,100
    I personally think blockchain is a major fad in gaming. The main benefit of a blockchain is the ability to verify information in a distributed decentralised system. In MMOs, the entire information is held by the service provider - there is no need to verify anything.

    In many cases, people offering blockchain assets literally place a string into a blockchain, holding a link to their website. So if you were to hold a blockchain of an in-game sword, the game developer would award you the item in-game, this would have an ID, this would sit somewhere on a server (to run the game), it would then also show the ID somewhere on a website, and they would then do this completely arbitrary and superfluous step of putting a link to the website (or the id) into a blockchain. This seems like madness to me - the blockchain minting step has no value beyond novelty.

    There are two viable scenarios I can see:
    1. MMOs are transient, your entire progression relies on the service provider's servers. MMO shuts down, you lose everything. If the progression information was entirely held in a blockchain, this would persist even if the service dies. This would mean your virtual progression is never lost, and you could in theory recreate the world state at any point in the future.
      Two major caveats: if the game goes bust, the service provider still holds the IP rights and the copyright over the game assets - not sure how much pure progression data is worth then; blockchains have strict limits to how much they can store as far as I know - if the blockchain doesn't store progression in its entirety and relies on linking to somewhere, this defeats the whole purpose.

    2. You replace the virtual currency with a cross-game blockchain currency. This is essentially what Entropia Universe does, except instead of $ you are trading for blockchain currency. The major driver I can see there is the ability to generate universal value by playing. Imagine you are an avid WoW player, sink 5 years into it day/night. Your friend plays a competing game called CoW, same amount of time. You decide to leave the game - there is no way for you to legally liquidate your account, if you sell it on the black market, you are making pennies on the dollar. Your friend leaves CoW, but his ingame currency indirectly transfers to either another game, or to real-world money. I could see a case being made there for playing the latter.

    This doesn't comment at all on the game design perspective. It would no doubt have a massive impact on how "fun" a game is - which is a whole different beast.
    ScotKyleranChampieGdemami
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 15,274
    laxie said:
    I personally think blockchain is a major fad in gaming. The main benefit of a blockchain is the ability to verify information in a distributed decentralised system. In MMOs, the entire information is held by the service provider - there is no need to verify anything.

    In many cases, people offering blockchain assets literally place a string into a blockchain, holding a link to their website. So if you were to hold a blockchain of an in-game sword, the game developer would award you the item in-game, this would have an ID, this would sit somewhere on a server (to run the game), it would then also show the ID somewhere on a website, and they would then do this completely arbitrary and superfluous step of putting a link to the website (or the id) into a blockchain. This seems like madness to me - the blockchain minting step has no value beyond novelty.

    There are two viable scenarios I can see:
    1. MMOs are transient, your entire progression relies on the service provider's servers. MMO shuts down, you lose everything. If the progression information was entirely held in a blockchain, this would persist even if the service dies. This would mean your virtual progression is never lost, and you could in theory recreate the world state at any point in the future.
      Two major caveats: if the game goes bust, the service provider still holds the IP rights and the copyright over the game assets - not sure how much pure progression data is worth then; blockchains have strict limits to how much they can store as far as I know - if the blockchain doesn't store progression in its entirety and relies on linking to somewhere, this defeats the whole purpose.

    2. You replace the virtual currency with a cross-game blockchain currency. This is essentially what Entropia Universe does, except instead of $ you are trading for blockchain currency. The major driver I can see there is the ability to generate universal value by playing. Imagine you are an avid WoW player, sink 5 years into it day/night. Your friend plays a competing game called CoW, same amount of time. You decide to leave the game - there is no way for you to legally liquidate your account, if you sell it on the black market, you are making pennies on the dollar. Your friend leaves CoW, but his ingame currency indirectly transfers to either another game, or to real-world money. I could see a case being made there for playing the latter.

    This doesn't comment at all on the game design perspective. It would no doubt have a massive impact on how "fun" a game is - which is a whole different beast.
    I can see benefits, it is just in the round I see it as negative. Your first example is very speculative, I can't see how players could rely on that. Your second would need these studios to declare that what you are saying would take place, I could not find any such assurances when I looked into this.

    For me, as perhaps you allude to in your final paragraph this is all about gaming ethos, why we play and the effect of mercantile gaming systems on us all but particularly the young.
    Gdemami
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,894
    Spiider said:
    Blockchain is the new tulips market.
    Somehow I got to my age either never hearing about Tulip mania or more likely I forgot about it along the way.

    So I looked it up, thanks for the (re-) enlightenment.
    GdemamiUngoodtzervo

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 1,868
    Scot said:

    So the only solution long term to this is a legal one, already gambling in gaming is being recognised as detrimental by governments. The addictive effect of blockchain making you think you are making money may be tagged on to that. But that starts now with players talking out against this just like they are about gambling in MMOs.

    Good luck with that.

    I don't know about your government, but mine talks against gambling addiction while feeding it, alcohol addiction while slaking it's thirst, and the perils of cigarettes while lighting them for you.

    Governments are adept at lip service against things, but their actions don't always reflect their claimed concerns.

    Worth trying, I suppose, but I wouldn't put much stock in the success of it.
    GdemamiUngood
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,894
    Scot said:

    So the only solution long term to this is a legal one, already gambling in gaming is being recognised as detrimental by governments. The addictive effect of blockchain making you think you are making money may be tagged on to that. But that starts now with players talking out against this just like they are about gambling in MMOs.

    Good luck with that.

    I don't know about your government, but mine talks against gambling addiction while feeding it, alcohol addiction while slaking it's thirst, and the perils of cigarettes while lighting them for you.

    Governments are adept at lip service against things, but their actions don't always reflect their claimed concerns.

    Worth trying, I suppose, but I wouldn't put much stock in the success of it.
    Of course government's only pay lip service to controlling such things as they generate big revenues from "sin" taxes.


    MendelGdemamiUngood

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,542
    laxie said:
    <snip>

    1. You replace the virtual currency with a cross-game blockchain currency. This is essentially what Entropia Universe does, except instead of $ you are trading for blockchain currency. The major driver I can see there is the ability to generate universal value by playing. Imagine you are an avid WoW player, sink 5 years into it day/night. Your friend plays a competing game called CoW, same amount of time. You decide to leave the game - there is no way for you to legally liquidate your account, if you sell it on the black market, you are making pennies on the dollar. Your friend leaves CoW, but his ingame currency indirectly transfers to either another game, or to real-world money. I could see a case being made there for playing the latter.

    I'd be very afraid of cross-game blockchain currency, if I were you.  You play game A, and earn money; but when playing game B, you earn more money for doing the same thing.  It essentially allows every game to print money.  That wouldn't work well in real life and most every government actively strives to prevent that.

    The PnP D&D sessions of the 70s and 80s had a specific name for that, a Monty Haul dungeon/campaign.  Different standards, different results.



    laxieGdemami

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 2,998
    I'm afraid im a little bit confused by the OP, but it's probably a terminology thing.


    Are you complaining about blockchains in general?

    Are you complaining about decentralised blockchains more specifically?

    Are you just complaining about cryptocurrencies?


    Each is a very specific thing. The OP seems to be entirely focused on cryptocurrencies, which is fair enough, but the OP always refers to them as blockchains, which is different.



    For clarification, a blockchain is simply a "new" type of database structure. Blockchains have positives and negatives in comparison to traditional database structures.

    Decentralised blockchains are where the database is not stored in one location, but distributed more widely. In order to get something added to the blockchain, the addition must be verified by most of those distributed databases.

    Cryptocurrencies are just digital currencies. Many of them are based on blockchain technology, but not all. Many use decentralised blockchains, but not all.
    maskedweaselUngoodTuor7tzervo
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 15,274
    edited June 9
    I'm afraid im a little bit confused by the OP, but it's probably a terminology thing.


    Are you complaining about blockchains in general?

    Are you complaining about decentralised blockchains more specifically?

    Are you just complaining about cryptocurrencies?


    Each is a very specific thing. The OP seems to be entirely focused on cryptocurrencies, which is fair enough, but the OP always refers to them as blockchains, which is different.



    For clarification, a blockchain is simply a "new" type of database structure. Blockchains have positives and negatives in comparison to traditional database structures.

    Decentralised blockchains are where the database is not stored in one location, but distributed more widely. In order to get something added to the blockchain, the addition must be verified by most of those distributed databases.

    Cryptocurrencies are just digital currencies. Many of them are based on blockchain technology, but not all. Many use decentralised blockchains, but not all.
    It is the interaction of blockchain and cryptocurrencies with gaming that concerns me. If you think the name blockchain is being misused, that's down to the games calling themselves blockchain MMOs. I am sure there will be some who are not, a bit like the way the term MMO is applied to anything these days.

    My understanding is that the blockchain facilitates trading between games and the cryptocurrency only comes in if you can convert what you have earned in game to real money. Both of which I find counter to gaming ethos. Now you would be perfectly reasonable in saying that I and other posters here have done a lot of speculation on how these games will develop, but I just delved into what gaming journalists have said and that's where they say this is going.
    GdemamiUngoodcameltosis
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 10,966
    Scot said:
    I'm afraid im a little bit confused by the OP, but it's probably a terminology thing.


    Are you complaining about blockchains in general?

    Are you complaining about decentralised blockchains more specifically?

    Are you just complaining about cryptocurrencies?


    Each is a very specific thing. The OP seems to be entirely focused on cryptocurrencies, which is fair enough, but the OP always refers to them as blockchains, which is different.



    For clarification, a blockchain is simply a "new" type of database structure. Blockchains have positives and negatives in comparison to traditional database structures.

    Decentralised blockchains are where the database is not stored in one location, but distributed more widely. In order to get something added to the blockchain, the addition must be verified by most of those distributed databases.

    Cryptocurrencies are just digital currencies. Many of them are based on blockchain technology, but not all. Many use decentralised blockchains, but not all.
    It is the interaction of blockchain and cryptocurrencies with gaming that concerns me. If you think the name blockchain is being misused, that's down to the games calling themselves blockchain MMOs. I am sure there will be some who are not, a bit like the way the term MMO is applied to anything these days.

    My understanding is that the blockchain facilitates trading between games and the cryptocurrency only comes in if you can convert what you have earned in game to real money. Both of which I find counter to gaming ethos. Now you would be perfectly reasonable in saying that I and other posters here have done a lot of speculation on how these games will develop, but I just delved into what gaming journalists have said and that's where they say this is going.
    Blockchain does not solely facilitate trading but it can. Blockchain can be used for a lot of things, not just as a cash shop. I think your understanding of it is very limited. 

    You can utilize it for transactions between players, sure, but you can also use it to house any kind of transactional data, including actual skill use. In many ways you could use it as a database of sorts, and some games are being built nearly completely on a blockchain. The name blockchain is not being misused. Games can be built on a blockchain and never use cryptocurrency at all. 

    That you're worried about that specific part of a blockchain game is one thing but it isn't indicative of every blockchain game. A blockchain game doesn't inherently need to integrate a cryptocurrency at all to be called a blockchain game.  
    KyleranUngood



  • AugustusGAugustusG Member UncommonPosts: 51
    edited June 9
    One question I'm asking myself is: Will these blockchain games make our computers compute more than the game mecanics to mine the cryptocurrency? If so, it will increase the electricity bill and make us pay the game through it and be non ecological.

    Hiden costs of blockchain games is a true question IMO.
    GdemamiUngood
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 6,568
    edited June 9
    Is it going to wear out my computer faster is what I am concerned about. I don't want my computer mining in the background because I am playing a game. I really have no confidence in what the game is doing because I am still quite skeptical they are not going to be using my hardware to make money.

    Massive distrust on my part and probably a lack of understanding.
    GdemamiUngood

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 15,274
    Scot said:
    I'm afraid im a little bit confused by the OP, but it's probably a terminology thing.


    Are you complaining about blockchains in general?

    Are you complaining about decentralised blockchains more specifically?

    Are you just complaining about cryptocurrencies?


    Each is a very specific thing. The OP seems to be entirely focused on cryptocurrencies, which is fair enough, but the OP always refers to them as blockchains, which is different.



    For clarification, a blockchain is simply a "new" type of database structure. Blockchains have positives and negatives in comparison to traditional database structures.

    Decentralised blockchains are where the database is not stored in one location, but distributed more widely. In order to get something added to the blockchain, the addition must be verified by most of those distributed databases.

    Cryptocurrencies are just digital currencies. Many of them are based on blockchain technology, but not all. Many use decentralised blockchains, but not all.
    It is the interaction of blockchain and cryptocurrencies with gaming that concerns me. If you think the name blockchain is being misused, that's down to the games calling themselves blockchain MMOs. I am sure there will be some who are not, a bit like the way the term MMO is applied to anything these days.

    My understanding is that the blockchain facilitates trading between games and the cryptocurrency only comes in if you can convert what you have earned in game to real money. Both of which I find counter to gaming ethos. Now you would be perfectly reasonable in saying that I and other posters here have done a lot of speculation on how these games will develop, but I just delved into what gaming journalists have said and that's where they say this is going.
    Blockchain does not solely facilitate trading but it can. Blockchain can be used for a lot of things, not just as a cash shop. I think your understanding of it is very limited. 

    You can utilize it for transactions between players, sure, but you can also use it to house any kind of transactional data, including actual skill use. In many ways you could use it as a database of sorts, and some games are being built nearly completely on a blockchain. The name blockchain is not being misused. Games can be built on a blockchain and never use cryptocurrency at all. 

    That you're worried about that specific part of a blockchain game is one thing but it isn't indicative of every blockchain game. A blockchain game doesn't inherently need to integrate a cryptocurrency at all to be called a blockchain game.  
    Trying to brush this under the carpet my saying my understanding is limited is fascicle. Every time I have talked about this I have indicated my concern is about blockchain in games. Apparently because I have not talked about blockchain outside of games that means my understanding is limited. My concern here is how it will be used in games, why would I talk about its use elsewhere? Of course this is about how blockchain can be used, not about how every game with a blockchain is being used now, that is why I mentioned this speculation comes not just from me but gaming journalists.
    Gdemamimaskedweasel
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,894
    edited June 9
    Scot said:
    Scot said:
    I'm afraid im a little bit confused by the OP, but it's probably a terminology thing.


    Are you complaining about blockchains in general?

    Are you complaining about decentralised blockchains more specifically?

    Are you just complaining about cryptocurrencies?


    Each is a very specific thing. The OP seems to be entirely focused on cryptocurrencies, which is fair enough, but the OP always refers to them as blockchains, which is different.



    For clarification, a blockchain is simply a "new" type of database structure. Blockchains have positives and negatives in comparison to traditional database structures.

    Decentralised blockchains are where the database is not stored in one location, but distributed more widely. In order to get something added to the blockchain, the addition must be verified by most of those distributed databases.

    Cryptocurrencies are just digital currencies. Many of them are based on blockchain technology, but not all. Many use decentralised blockchains, but not all.
    It is the interaction of blockchain and cryptocurrencies with gaming that concerns me. If you think the name blockchain is being misused, that's down to the games calling themselves blockchain MMOs. I am sure there will be some who are not, a bit like the way the term MMO is applied to anything these days.

    My understanding is that the blockchain facilitates trading between games and the cryptocurrency only comes in if you can convert what you have earned in game to real money. Both of which I find counter to gaming ethos. Now you would be perfectly reasonable in saying that I and other posters here have done a lot of speculation on how these games will develop, but I just delved into what gaming journalists have said and that's where they say this is going.
    Blockchain does not solely facilitate trading but it can. Blockchain can be used for a lot of things, not just as a cash shop. I think your understanding of it is very limited. 

    You can utilize it for transactions between players, sure, but you can also use it to house any kind of transactional data, including actual skill use. In many ways you could use it as a database of sorts, and some games are being built nearly completely on a blockchain. The name blockchain is not being misused. Games can be built on a blockchain and never use cryptocurrency at all. 

    That you're worried about that specific part of a blockchain game is one thing but it isn't indicative of every blockchain game. A blockchain game doesn't inherently need to integrate a cryptocurrency at all to be called a blockchain game.  
    Trying to brush this under the carpet my saying my understanding is limited is fascicle. Every time I have talked about this I have indicated my concern is about blockchain in games. Apparently because I have not talked about blockchain outside of games that means my understanding is limited. My concern here is how it will be used in games, why would I talk about its use elsewhere? Of course this is about how blockchain can be used, not about how every game with a blockchain is being used now, that is why I mentioned this speculation comes not just from me but gaming journalists.
    While it may be possible for the term block chain to be used in gaming without integrating cryptocurrency so far almost every example I've read about in relationship to gaming does in fact integrate cryptocurrency.

    Until I see some examples of block chain in other uses which benefit me personally (meaning games I'm interested in playing) I'm going to continue to hold on to my accurate, albeit limited view on the subject.

    BTW, I work in the banking sector where distributed ledgers are being used in all sorts of new projects at the firm which so far are all related to handling financial transactions such as digital wallets for various cryptocurrencies but not many other uses as far as I can tell.




    GdemamiScotAmaranthar

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,815
    kitarad said:
    Is it going to wear out my computer faster is what I am concerned about. I don't want my computer mining in the background because I am playing a game. I really have no confidence in what the game is doing because I am still quite skeptical they are not going to be using my hardware to make money.

    Massive distrust on my part and probably a lack of understanding.
    This is my concern right here, in a nutshell.

    I know there is this whole Blockchain mining thing going on with Crypto Currency, and, truth be told, the idea of my computer being turned into some mining platform while I am trying to play a game does not appeal to me.
    GdemamimmolouKyleranScot
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,820
    My brother's company has been developing a play-to-earn sci-fi game for the last 2 years. Games that have tangible items in them are going to be the future. Now how it's priced out.. ehh.. that's going to be a different manner altogether and sounds like it might get expensive quickly but the concept has been here for a while now. Minecraft has a wooden Sword that can be used in this game and several others, It's quite interesting. 

    Personally Ive been playing an Arpg called lost relics which uses Ethereum BC items. Gaming is going to take a huge shift once block chain is normalized. It will, but it's still early. 

    check out https://lostrelics.io
    KyleranUngood
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • GormogonGormogon Member UncommonPosts: 220
    Setting aside mmorpgs as a currency-mining operation, what do they gain from using a blockchain?  What problem is it solving?

    I can see it having value in a game where the ownership and transfer of unique assets is a fundamental aspect of the gameplay.

    Likewise in competitive environments where the legitimacy of the results of player interactions matter to the participants.

    But blockchain advocates often seem to imply that anything could benefit from replacing the old database paradigm with a blockchain, and I'm not following.

    Surely the benefits need to justify the resource requirements for validation?  In a game where anybody can defeat Illidan and acquire one of a potentially infinite number of Blades of Azzinoth, how many participants in the chain actually care about validating these events, let alone finer interactions such as quest progress and what junk is in people's inventories?  

    Again, setting aside mmorpgs as crypto-mining, it seems to me that blockchain as a "fad" will result in a greater shift toward games focused around asset ownership and a stratification of gameplay opportunities and player communities around the value of their account.   This in turn seems ripe grounds for P2W as a sort of "mine real life to become rich in the game" type of thing.
    klash2defScotKyleranUngoodGdemami
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 10,966
    Kyleran said:
    Scot said:
    Scot said:
    I'm afraid im a little bit confused by the OP, but it's probably a terminology thing.


    Are you complaining about blockchains in general?

    Are you complaining about decentralised blockchains more specifically?

    Are you just complaining about cryptocurrencies?


    Each is a very specific thing. The OP seems to be entirely focused on cryptocurrencies, which is fair enough, but the OP always refers to them as blockchains, which is different.



    For clarification, a blockchain is simply a "new" type of database structure. Blockchains have positives and negatives in comparison to traditional database structures.

    Decentralised blockchains are where the database is not stored in one location, but distributed more widely. In order to get something added to the blockchain, the addition must be verified by most of those distributed databases.

    Cryptocurrencies are just digital currencies. Many of them are based on blockchain technology, but not all. Many use decentralised blockchains, but not all.
    It is the interaction of blockchain and cryptocurrencies with gaming that concerns me. If you think the name blockchain is being misused, that's down to the games calling themselves blockchain MMOs. I am sure there will be some who are not, a bit like the way the term MMO is applied to anything these days.

    My understanding is that the blockchain facilitates trading between games and the cryptocurrency only comes in if you can convert what you have earned in game to real money. Both of which I find counter to gaming ethos. Now you would be perfectly reasonable in saying that I and other posters here have done a lot of speculation on how these games will develop, but I just delved into what gaming journalists have said and that's where they say this is going.
    Blockchain does not solely facilitate trading but it can. Blockchain can be used for a lot of things, not just as a cash shop. I think your understanding of it is very limited. 

    You can utilize it for transactions between players, sure, but you can also use it to house any kind of transactional data, including actual skill use. In many ways you could use it as a database of sorts, and some games are being built nearly completely on a blockchain. The name blockchain is not being misused. Games can be built on a blockchain and never use cryptocurrency at all. 

    That you're worried about that specific part of a blockchain game is one thing but it isn't indicative of every blockchain game. A blockchain game doesn't inherently need to integrate a cryptocurrency at all to be called a blockchain game.  
    Trying to brush this under the carpet my saying my understanding is limited is fascicle. Every time I have talked about this I have indicated my concern is about blockchain in games. Apparently because I have not talked about blockchain outside of games that means my understanding is limited. My concern here is how it will be used in games, why would I talk about its use elsewhere? Of course this is about how blockchain can be used, not about how every game with a blockchain is being used now, that is why I mentioned this speculation comes not just from me but gaming journalists.
    While it may be possible for the term block chain to be used in gaming without integrating cryptocurrency so far almost every example I've read about in relationship to gaming does in fact integrate cryptocurrency.

    Until I see some examples of block chain in other uses which benefit me personally (meaning games I'm interested in playing) I'm going to continue to hold on to my accurate, albeit limited view on the subject.

    BTW, I work in the banking sector where distributed ledgers are being used in all sorts of new projects at the firm which so far are all related to handling financial transactions such as digital wallets for various cryptocurrencies but not many other uses as far as I can tell.




    I say that he has a limited understanding because it's true. 

    Are NFT's cryptocurrencies? No. They use a blockchain, and can be bought with cryptocurrency. They are not a crypto currency. 

    It's funny now that everyone wants to put a caveat that "it has to be uses that benefit me" for a blockchain game to be called a blockchain game. 

    It doesn't matter that the use of blockchain in games is more than just financial, and even articles on this site have defined uses outside of financial for blockchain, but it requires comprehension of the systems to understand their uses. 

    Nine chronicles and openera are both doing a lot of features that utilize blockchain that aren't cryptocurrency or specifically finance related. 

    Ungood



  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,894
    Kyleran said:
    Scot said:
    Scot said:
    I'm afraid im a little bit confused by the OP, but it's probably a terminology thing.


    Are you complaining about blockchains in general?

    Are you complaining about decentralised blockchains more specifically?

    Are you just complaining about cryptocurrencies?


    Each is a very specific thing. The OP seems to be entirely focused on cryptocurrencies, which is fair enough, but the OP always refers to them as blockchains, which is different.



    For clarification, a blockchain is simply a "new" type of database structure. Blockchains have positives and negatives in comparison to traditional database structures.

    Decentralised blockchains are where the database is not stored in one location, but distributed more widely. In order to get something added to the blockchain, the addition must be verified by most of those distributed databases.

    Cryptocurrencies are just digital currencies. Many of them are based on blockchain technology, but not all. Many use decentralised blockchains, but not all.
    It is the interaction of blockchain and cryptocurrencies with gaming that concerns me. If you think the name blockchain is being misused, that's down to the games calling themselves blockchain MMOs. I am sure there will be some who are not, a bit like the way the term MMO is applied to anything these days.

    My understanding is that the blockchain facilitates trading between games and the cryptocurrency only comes in if you can convert what you have earned in game to real money. Both of which I find counter to gaming ethos. Now you would be perfectly reasonable in saying that I and other posters here have done a lot of speculation on how these games will develop, but I just delved into what gaming journalists have said and that's where they say this is going.
    Blockchain does not solely facilitate trading but it can. Blockchain can be used for a lot of things, not just as a cash shop. I think your understanding of it is very limited. 

    You can utilize it for transactions between players, sure, but you can also use it to house any kind of transactional data, including actual skill use. In many ways you could use it as a database of sorts, and some games are being built nearly completely on a blockchain. The name blockchain is not being misused. Games can be built on a blockchain and never use cryptocurrency at all. 

    That you're worried about that specific part of a blockchain game is one thing but it isn't indicative of every blockchain game. A blockchain game doesn't inherently need to integrate a cryptocurrency at all to be called a blockchain game.  
    Trying to brush this under the carpet my saying my understanding is limited is fascicle. Every time I have talked about this I have indicated my concern is about blockchain in games. Apparently because I have not talked about blockchain outside of games that means my understanding is limited. My concern here is how it will be used in games, why would I talk about its use elsewhere? Of course this is about how blockchain can be used, not about how every game with a blockchain is being used now, that is why I mentioned this speculation comes not just from me but gaming journalists.
    While it may be possible for the term block chain to be used in gaming without integrating cryptocurrency so far almost every example I've read about in relationship to gaming does in fact integrate cryptocurrency.

    Until I see some examples of block chain in other uses which benefit me personally (meaning games I'm interested in playing) I'm going to continue to hold on to my accurate, albeit limited view on the subject.

    BTW, I work in the banking sector where distributed ledgers are being used in all sorts of new projects at the firm which so far are all related to handling financial transactions such as digital wallets for various cryptocurrencies but not many other uses as far as I can tell.




    I say that he has a limited understanding because it's true. 

    Are NFT's cryptocurrencies? No. They use a blockchain, and can be bought with cryptocurrency. They are not a crypto currency. 

    It's funny now that everyone wants to put a caveat that "it has to be uses that benefit me" for a blockchain game to be called a blockchain game. 

    It doesn't matter that the use of blockchain in games is more than just financial, and even articles on this site have defined uses outside of financial for blockchain, but it requires comprehension of the systems to understand their uses. 

    Nine chronicles and openera are both doing a lot of features that utilize blockchain that aren't cryptocurrency or specifically finance related. 

    I dunno, just did a quick search on Nine Chronicles and found this on an article MOP did earlier this year, still seems to be mostly about mining and money.

    "As for the game’s link to blockchain, an official FAQ details how players can turn on in-game mining to both contribute their personal processing power to the blockchain while getting some in-game incentives like 10 NCG per block mined. The FAQ does state the amount of NCG gained from mining will lower by half every four years, and promises that only about 25% of processing power — or one core of a quad-core CPU — is used"

    https://massivelyop.com/2021/01/28/nine-chronicles-is-a-decentralized-peer-to-peer-blockchain-mmo-with-open-source-modification-features/
    ScotGdemami

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,894
    To continue from this sites own article a few days ago about Openera, still mostly about making money.

    "When playing OpenEra, obtaining materials and assets will become fully tradeable non-fungible tokens that players can choose to keep, trade, or use later on. In the current version of the game, several mini-games will allow players to participate in tournaments, such as a fishing contest, or a battle royale mode.

    These tournaments are what Cardenas considers, “no-loss” tournaments, where money is put into a liquidity pool (think of this like a savings account), and earns interest over the course of the tournament."

    But I'm open to seeing differing examples if someone can share them.


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 15,274
    edited June 9
    Kyleran said:
    Scot said:
    Scot said:
    I'm afraid im a little bit confused by the OP, but it's probably a terminology thing.


    Are you complaining about blockchains in general?

    Are you complaining about decentralised blockchains more specifically?

    Are you just complaining about cryptocurrencies?


    Each is a very specific thing. The OP seems to be entirely focused on cryptocurrencies, which is fair enough, but the OP always refers to them as blockchains, which is different.



    For clarification, a blockchain is simply a "new" type of database structure. Blockchains have positives and negatives in comparison to traditional database structures.

    Decentralised blockchains are where the database is not stored in one location, but distributed more widely. In order to get something added to the blockchain, the addition must be verified by most of those distributed databases.

    Cryptocurrencies are just digital currencies. Many of them are based on blockchain technology, but not all. Many use decentralised blockchains, but not all.
    It is the interaction of blockchain and cryptocurrencies with gaming that concerns me. If you think the name blockchain is being misused, that's down to the games calling themselves blockchain MMOs. I am sure there will be some who are not, a bit like the way the term MMO is applied to anything these days.

    My understanding is that the blockchain facilitates trading between games and the cryptocurrency only comes in if you can convert what you have earned in game to real money. Both of which I find counter to gaming ethos. Now you would be perfectly reasonable in saying that I and other posters here have done a lot of speculation on how these games will develop, but I just delved into what gaming journalists have said and that's where they say this is going.
    Blockchain does not solely facilitate trading but it can. Blockchain can be used for a lot of things, not just as a cash shop. I think your understanding of it is very limited. 

    You can utilize it for transactions between players, sure, but you can also use it to house any kind of transactional data, including actual skill use. In many ways you could use it as a database of sorts, and some games are being built nearly completely on a blockchain. The name blockchain is not being misused. Games can be built on a blockchain and never use cryptocurrency at all. 

    That you're worried about that specific part of a blockchain game is one thing but it isn't indicative of every blockchain game. A blockchain game doesn't inherently need to integrate a cryptocurrency at all to be called a blockchain game.  
    Trying to brush this under the carpet my saying my understanding is limited is fascicle. Every time I have talked about this I have indicated my concern is about blockchain in games. Apparently because I have not talked about blockchain outside of games that means my understanding is limited. My concern here is how it will be used in games, why would I talk about its use elsewhere? Of course this is about how blockchain can be used, not about how every game with a blockchain is being used now, that is why I mentioned this speculation comes not just from me but gaming journalists.
    While it may be possible for the term block chain to be used in gaming without integrating cryptocurrency so far almost every example I've read about in relationship to gaming does in fact integrate cryptocurrency.

    Until I see some examples of block chain in other uses which benefit me personally (meaning games I'm interested in playing) I'm going to continue to hold on to my accurate, albeit limited view on the subject.

    BTW, I work in the banking sector where distributed ledgers are being used in all sorts of new projects at the firm which so far are all related to handling financial transactions such as digital wallets for various cryptocurrencies but not many other uses as far as I can tell.




    I say that he has a limited understanding because it's true. 

    Are NFT's cryptocurrencies? No. They use a blockchain, and can be bought with cryptocurrency. They are not a crypto currency. 

    It's funny now that everyone wants to put a caveat that "it has to be uses that benefit me" for a blockchain game to be called a blockchain game. 

    It doesn't matter that the use of blockchain in games is more than just financial, and even articles on this site have defined uses outside of financial for blockchain, but it requires comprehension of the systems to understand their uses. 

    Nine chronicles and openera are both doing a lot of features that utilize blockchain that aren't cryptocurrency or specifically finance related. 

    Clearly blockchain and cryptocurrency are not the same thing, I have not said that anywhere. Rather than explaining why this will not be an issue all you do is bang on about "limited understanding". Nothing you have said indicates these concerns are not genuine, sure you can use blockchain in games without doing what I have said. So what? The potential is there and commentators think this is the way it will go, studios are already indicating in the likes of Openera that's how it will go, how about addressing the question for once?
    Gdemami
Sign In or Register to comment.