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The Dreamworld Situation Is Looking Like a Mess | MMORPG.com

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  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 10,405
    Stizzled said:
    Scot said:
    Mars_OMG said:
    Diamond ring.

    The idea that we should base our judgment of a guys ability to deliver a game based on what his ex says is farcical. This game has so many red flags going up around it that her comments are also superfluous.
    It's not about using her statements to judge his ability to deliver a game, it's about judging his character. He was perfectly willing to scam his fiancee, and then continue the scam/lie by using a falsified version of the story to garner sympathy in the Kickstarter video.

    Maybe we don't need her comments to know this guy is a total scumbag, but considering the bullshit story he told about her you can't blame her for wanting to set the record straight.
      They are both scammers for all I know.  idk who the f*** she even is or where she came from lol.
    Gdemami
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • IceAgeIceAge Member EpicPosts: 2,950
    edited May 2021
    Ungood said:
    IceAge said:
    Almost all Kickstarter MMO's are a scam.

    Yes yes, SC included!

    In before "NOT TRUE!!!"

    Well .. prove me wrong.
    Ungood said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    For the curious, I put a massively link on how much mmorpg manage to raise through kickstarter.

    https://massivelyop.com/2019/10/09/perfect-ten-kickstarter-mmos-that-raised-the-most-money/
    Cool List.

    Going down:
    The Repopulation: currently in Early Access/playable state - Win.

    Zenith: Slated to be Released this Year - We shall see, but still - Fail.

    Adventure Quest 3D - Launched/playable. - Win.

    TemTem - Released/Launched - Win.

    Dual Universe - Currently in a Beta/Playable state - Win

    City of Titans - Currently Not Playable - Fail.

    Chronicles of Elyria - Direct Scam - Fail

    Crowfall - Currently in a Alpha/Playable state - Win.

    Shroud of the Avatar - Launched/Released - Win.

    Elite: Dangerous - Launched/Released - Win.

    Star Citizen - Still in Development/Not Playable - Progress being made but still - Fail.

    Camelot Unchained - Still in Development/Not Playable - Progress being made but still - Fail.

    Hex - Launched/Released - Win.

    Ashes of Creation - Still in Development, Supposedly Playable State - Progress being Made but still - Fail

    So.. break down: 14 total projects.

    We have 8 games in a playable state, that count as Wins.

    We have 6 games that are not in a playable state that count as Fails.

    Of the 6 games that failed, We have 1 game that was a direct Scam and 1 game that just vanished into Vaporware.

    So.. when you look at it, this is not that bad pretty good.

    Only one was a direct Scam.

    Which bring us back to Kickstarter's role in all this, how would Kickstarter know, out of these 14 projects, which one was the direct scam during the funding phrase?

    (Revised as data provided by Rhoklaw about Dual Universe being in a playable state)
    (Revised as data provided by DafAtRandom about Hex, having launched)

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7659607#Comment_7659607
    Except, most of the "wins" are scams, by asking money for X features, while released with far, far below expectation features than what was promised.

    Asking money for something, but not delivering = scam .

    Also:

    Putting Elite : Dangerous there , LOL. "Bro", do you even know why they went for a Kickstarter Campaign?! 

    Shroud of the Avatar - Launched/Released - Win. - A WIN?! HAHAHAH. Ok, let me put it this way : They are somehow BOUND to release a "playable" version of the game, else they will be in trouble with Kickstarter. SotA was just .. "playable", with most of their features, which btw, they were asking money for, non-existent or pathetic. 

    Crowfall - Currently in a Alpha/Playable state - Win. Win? :)))))))))))))))))))))))))

    The Repopulation: currently in Early Access/playable state - Win. - Do you know the history of this game??!?

    Please educate yourself before calling scams : Wins!

    Thanks!


    Gdemami

    Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
    Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    My first free fly in SC was a laughable joke,almost everything did NOT have textures.I thought wtf is the point of this?
    My second jaunt i wanted to see these Hangars...lol Although looked ok as far as texture/resolution there was very little substance to what i would call a QUALITY hangar.

    My third try was ok this is still garbage and left within 10 minutes.

    I have never seen anything that looked professional or even remotely good within SC not inside or in videos.
    I have a VERY solid,definitive idea of what i want to see from a game like SC.I do not need crowd funding ideas to figure it out,so SC has simply been a joke,a game that goes by the motto, "let's just WING IT" by the former WINGMAN.

    Is SC better than Dreamworld,well geesh a wet paper bag is better than no bag at all,doesn't mean it is good.
    BabuinixUngood

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,287
    Babuinix said:
    Ungood said:
    Babuinix said:
    Ungood said:
    Mars_OMG said:
    Star Citizen - Still in Development/Not Playable - Progress being made but still - Fail.

    Star Citizen - Alpha : Playable. 
    So it has an Playable Alpha now? Congrats.. that does not change that post, given when it was made, it was valid.
    It has had a "playable" alpha build available to all backers since October 2013 in the form of the Hangar Module. And despite still a alpha It's been the most streamed and watched space game on Twitch surpassing games like NoManSky, EvE, Elite and so on :D
    Oh right, that was mentioned. IIRC did not accept that as being in a playable state because it was just limited time events, not continuously available, like Crowfall's Open Alpha, and Dual Universe's Open Beta.

    What? These weren't "limited time events" lol

    They released the first playable build in 2013 and it has been available to all backers since then while being updated along the years.

    I dunno where you are getting your info but it's not from a reliable source lol
    Source please.
    GdemamiBabuinixKyleran
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,287
    IceAge said:
    Ungood said:
    IceAge said:
    Almost all Kickstarter MMO's are a scam.

    Yes yes, SC included!

    In before "NOT TRUE!!!"

    Well .. prove me wrong.
    Ungood said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    For the curious, I put a massively link on how much mmorpg manage to raise through kickstarter.

    https://massivelyop.com/2019/10/09/perfect-ten-kickstarter-mmos-that-raised-the-most-money/
    Cool List.

    Going down:
    The Repopulation: currently in Early Access/playable state - Win.

    Zenith: Slated to be Released this Year - We shall see, but still - Fail.

    Adventure Quest 3D - Launched/playable. - Win.

    TemTem - Released/Launched - Win.

    Dual Universe - Currently in a Beta/Playable state - Win

    City of Titans - Currently Not Playable - Fail.

    Chronicles of Elyria - Direct Scam - Fail

    Crowfall - Currently in a Alpha/Playable state - Win.

    Shroud of the Avatar - Launched/Released - Win.

    Elite: Dangerous - Launched/Released - Win.

    Star Citizen - Still in Development/Not Playable - Progress being made but still - Fail.

    Camelot Unchained - Still in Development/Not Playable - Progress being made but still - Fail.

    Hex - Launched/Released - Win.

    Ashes of Creation - Still in Development, Supposedly Playable State - Progress being Made but still - Fail

    So.. break down: 14 total projects.

    We have 8 games in a playable state, that count as Wins.

    We have 6 games that are not in a playable state that count as Fails.

    Of the 6 games that failed, We have 1 game that was a direct Scam and 1 game that just vanished into Vaporware.

    So.. when you look at it, this is not that bad pretty good.

    Only one was a direct Scam.

    Which bring us back to Kickstarter's role in all this, how would Kickstarter know, out of these 14 projects, which one was the direct scam during the funding phrase?

    (Revised as data provided by Rhoklaw about Dual Universe being in a playable state)
    (Revised as data provided by DafAtRandom about Hex, having launched)

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7659607#Comment_7659607
    Except, most of the "wins" are scams, by asking money for X features, while released with far, far below expectation features than what was promised.

    Asking money for something, but not delivering = scam .

    Also:

    Putting Elite : Dangerous there , LOL. "Bro", do you even know why they went for a Kickstarter Campaign?! 

    Shroud of the Avatar - Launched/Released - Win. - A WIN?! HAHAHAH. Ok, let me put it this way : They are somehow BOUND to release a "playable" version of the game, else they will be in trouble with Kickstarter. SotA was just .. "playable", with most of their features, which btw, they were asking money for, non-existent or pathetic. 

    Crowfall - Currently in a Alpha/Playable state - Win. Win? :)))))))))))))))))))))))))

    The Repopulation: currently in Early Access/playable state - Win. - Do you know the history of this game??!?

    Please educate yourself before calling scams : Wins!

    Thanks!


    A Scam is Defined as: "A Dishonest Scheme"

    As such:

    Screwing up.
    Failing.
    Making Mistakes.
    Overestimating your own Competency.

    Are not Scams.

    Now, before you get into what you think a scam is, you do not get to just invent what you want words mean. If you want to call something a scam, that is the definition of the word.

    They said they were going to make a game, and they made something playable.

    TLDR:

    Fucking Up is not a Scam.
    maskedweaselQuizzical[Deleted User]YashaXScotCryomatrixmklinicKyleran
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,896
    tzervo said:
    Ungood said:
    A Scam is Defined as: "A Dishonest Scheme"

    As such:

    Screwing up.
    Failing.
    Making Mistakes.
    Overestimating your own Competency.

    Are not Scams.

    Now, before you get into what you think a scam is, you do not get to just invent what you want words mean. If you want to call something a scam, that is the definition of the word.

    They said they were going to make a game, and they made something playable.

    TLDR:

    Fucking Up is not a Scam.
    Heh, reminded me of a specific thread where a poster linked a review of himself calling a game that he sunk around 2k hours in "a scam".

    You just need to learn to speak "gamer": scam="fails to meet my expectations", "failed", "late" or just "game pissed me off"
    The defining question to me has always been:  Did the Developers really think they could deliver what they said, with the budget they claimed, and in the time they said?   Or did they lie about 1,2 or all 3 in order to get people to give them money?

    The first is gross incompetence.  The second IMHO is fraud and/or a scam.
    YashaXGdemamiBrainy

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 11,896
    tzervo said:
    Ungood said:
    A Scam is Defined as: "A Dishonest Scheme"

    As such:

    Screwing up.
    Failing.
    Making Mistakes.
    Overestimating your own Competency.

    Are not Scams.

    Now, before you get into what you think a scam is, you do not get to just invent what you want words mean. If you want to call something a scam, that is the definition of the word.

    They said they were going to make a game, and they made something playable.

    TLDR:

    Fucking Up is not a Scam.
    Heh, reminded me of a specific thread where a poster linked a review of himself calling a game that he sunk around 2k hours in "a scam".

    You just need to learn to speak "gamer": scam="fails to meet my expectations", "failed", "late" or just "game pissed me off"
    The defining question to me has always been:  Did the Developers really think they could deliver what they said, with the budget they claimed, and in the time they said?   Or did they lie about 1,2 or all 3 in order to get people to give them money?

    The first is gross incompetence.  The second IMHO is fraud and/or a scam.
    Well, firstly, I think many of the commenters we see coming through here just reflexively attack anything that doesn't meet their standards, and most of them have unrealistic expectations to begin with. 

    But pushing that aside, I think in some cases developers bite off more than they can chew, and in all honesty, we've been around long enough that even big studios with hundreds of millions of dollars worth of backing from a big publisher end up cutting features and missing target dates. 

    The only difference here is that all the "investors" are poor shlubs who fall for some kickstarter campaign. Dreamworld, I mean anyone with two eyes and an ounce of sense could see that the game was a shitshow. But imo games like Camelot Unchained, with an (arguably) competent developer running the show would at least make sense for people to gamble on. Even to this day DAOC is still looked on pretty fondly by former players.
    YashaX



  • ThaneThane Member EpicPosts: 3,534
    welp, it's 2 people making that "game".... and their solution? welp, it's there, but ofc they won't even mention it, just believe that 2 people came up with the idea to fix bandwith and basic server issues bc... well, his fiance left him!
    Gdemami

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,001
    Ungood said:
    Babuinix said:
    Ungood said:
    Babuinix said:
    Ungood said:
    Mars_OMG said:
    Star Citizen - Still in Development/Not Playable - Progress being made but still - Fail.

    Star Citizen - Alpha : Playable. 
    So it has an Playable Alpha now? Congrats.. that does not change that post, given when it was made, it was valid.
    It has had a "playable" alpha build available to all backers since October 2013 in the form of the Hangar Module. And despite still a alpha It's been the most streamed and watched space game on Twitch surpassing games like NoManSky, EvE, Elite and so on :D
    Oh right, that was mentioned. IIRC did not accept that as being in a playable state because it was just limited time events, not continuously available, like Crowfall's Open Alpha, and Dual Universe's Open Beta.

    What? These weren't "limited time events" lol

    They released the first playable build in 2013 and it has been available to all backers since then while being updated along the years.

    I dunno where you are getting your info but it's not from a reliable source lol
    Source please.

    How can you not know that Star Citizen has had a playable version since 2013? There's gameplay plastered all around the internet along with Twitch streamers lol :D

    [Deleted User]
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,001
    edited May 2021
    Wizardry said:
    My first free fly in SC was a laughable joke,almost everything did NOT have textures.I thought wtf is the point of this?
    My second jaunt i wanted to see these Hangars...lol Although looked ok as far as texture/resolution there was very little substance to what i would call a QUALITY hangar.

    My third try was ok this is still garbage and left within 10 minutes.

    I have never seen anything that looked professional or even remotely good within SC not inside or in videos.
    I have a VERY solid,definitive idea of what i want to see from a game like SC.I do not need crowd funding ideas to figure it out,so SC has simply been a joke,a game that goes by the motto, "let's just WING IT" by the former WINGMAN.

    Is SC better than Dreamworld,well geesh a wet paper bag is better than no bag at all,doesn't mean it is good.
    I call bullshit on that. Doubt you even have the hardware to run the game much less give the trouble to download it and install it lol
    Linif
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 3,495
    IceAge said:

    Shroud of the Avatar - Launched/Released - Win. - A WIN?! HAHAHAH. Ok, let me put it this way : They are somehow BOUND to release a "playable" version of the game, else they will be in trouble with Kickstarter. SotA was just .. "playable", with most of their features, which btw, they were asking money for, non-existent or pathetic. 


    It's more of a win than failing to produce a game at all,  so when it comes to crowdfunded MMORPGs they are more accomplished than the norm.
    UngoodYashaXKyleran
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,287
    Babuinix said:
    Ungood said:
    Babuinix said:
    Ungood said:
    Babuinix said:
    Ungood said:
    Mars_OMG said:
    Star Citizen - Still in Development/Not Playable - Progress being made but still - Fail.

    Star Citizen - Alpha : Playable. 
    So it has an Playable Alpha now? Congrats.. that does not change that post, given when it was made, it was valid.
    It has had a "playable" alpha build available to all backers since October 2013 in the form of the Hangar Module. And despite still a alpha It's been the most streamed and watched space game on Twitch surpassing games like NoManSky, EvE, Elite and so on :D
    Oh right, that was mentioned. IIRC did not accept that as being in a playable state because it was just limited time events, not continuously available, like Crowfall's Open Alpha, and Dual Universe's Open Beta.

    What? These weren't "limited time events" lol

    They released the first playable build in 2013 and it has been available to all backers since then while being updated along the years.

    I dunno where you are getting your info but it's not from a reliable source lol
    Source please.

    How can you not know that Star Citizen has had a playable version since 2013? There's gameplay plastered all around the internet along with Twitch streamers lol :D

    Look, I love your belief in this game, and given your other posts, you are a truer fan of this game. But, even Cloud Imperium makes it clear that The Hanger Module is as the name implies, just a Hanger Simulator and not some kind of Alpha to the Actual Game.

    Here is a FAQ about it.

    So, as it stands, this does not count. 

    But keep that enthusiasm going, I love the fact that a Hanger Simulator can build that kind of faith in the game.

    This is why I support the system Crowfall/Artcraft uses, where they give their players the game to play, which builds faith in the product.
    Babuinix[Deleted User]GdemamiYashaXKyleran
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,001
    edited May 2021
    Ungood said:
    Babuinix said:
    Ungood said:
    Babuinix said:
    Ungood said:
    Babuinix said:
    Ungood said:
    Mars_OMG said:
    Star Citizen - Still in Development/Not Playable - Progress being made but still - Fail.

    Star Citizen - Alpha : Playable. 
    So it has an Playable Alpha now? Congrats.. that does not change that post, given when it was made, it was valid.
    It has had a "playable" alpha build available to all backers since October 2013 in the form of the Hangar Module. And despite still a alpha It's been the most streamed and watched space game on Twitch surpassing games like NoManSky, EvE, Elite and so on :D
    Oh right, that was mentioned. IIRC did not accept that as being in a playable state because it was just limited time events, not continuously available, like Crowfall's Open Alpha, and Dual Universe's Open Beta.

    What? These weren't "limited time events" lol

    They released the first playable build in 2013 and it has been available to all backers since then while being updated along the years.

    I dunno where you are getting your info but it's not from a reliable source lol
    Source please.

    How can you not know that Star Citizen has had a playable version since 2013? There's gameplay plastered all around the internet along with Twitch streamers lol :D

    Look, I love your belief in this game, and given your other posts, you are a truer fan of this game. But, even Cloud Imperium makes it clear that The Hanger Module is as the name implies, just a Hanger Simulator and not some kind of Alpha to the Actual Game.

    Here is a FAQ about it.

    So, as it stands, this does not count. 

    But keep that enthusiasm going, I love the fact that a Hanger Simulator can build that kind of faith in the game.

    This is why I support the system Crowfall/Artcraft uses, where they give their players the game to play, which builds faith in the product.
    Doesn't count for who? A random joe who can't make head or tails about a subject he made himself masters off without actually researching or  understanding what he was talking about?
     
    I'll make it simple, as courtesy:

    Kickstarter: 2012
    +
    Hangar Module: 2013
    +
    Dogfighting Module: 2014
    +
    Persistent Universe: 2015

    It's not about faith, it's proven and consistent delivery.
    Post edited by Babuinix on
  • blamo2000blamo2000 Member RarePosts: 1,128

    Kyleran said:


    Iselin said:

    And yet $65K were raised by this scam. Gamers are very easy marks apparently even when the scam is so obvious.


    Still too many people out there who believe





    Some of my favorite games were crowd funded. I'd say over 50% of the games I really enjoy since 2014/2015 were all crowd funded.

    Why would I not believe in the thing that is giving my over half the games I like? Granted, it slowed way down in the last couple or three years, but that doesn't change the fact of what I stated above.

    Divinity Orginal Sin, Wasteland, Pillars of Eternity, to name some of the bigger ones people on here most likely heard of. It looks like the only one I really wanted and am getting burned on is Realms Beyond. One of the last ones I funded I can think of off-hand, Encased, is definitely releasing.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,916
    edited May 2021
    blamo2000 said:

    Kyleran said:


    Iselin said:

    And yet $65K were raised by this scam. Gamers are very easy marks apparently even when the scam is so obvious.


    Still too many people out there who believe





    Some of my favorite games were crowd funded. I'd say over 50% of the games I really enjoy since 2014/2015 were all crowd funded.

    Why would I not believe in the thing that is giving my over half the games I like? Granted, it slowed way down in the last couple or three years, but that doesn't change the fact of what I stated above.

    Divinity Orginal Sin, Wasteland, Pillars of Eternity, to name some of the bigger ones people on here most likely heard of. It looks like the only one I really wanted and am getting burned on is Realms Beyond. One of the last ones I funded I can think of off-hand, Encased, is definitely releasing.
    Crowdfunding single player games is a whole different thing than crowdfunding MMOs. MMOs are just plain too big, take too much money and too much time to make compared to the successful single player games. Every single one of the CF MMO projects also has some pie in the sky release date that is routinely missed by multiple years. That IMO is a deliberately deceitful rosy picture painted to get donations because not many would be interested in putting down their money now if the estimated delivery dates were realistic as in 7 to 10 year. That deception is a bad start and doesn't sit well with me because it makes me wonder what else they're willing to be deceitful about.

    I play and have played a lot of games that started out as crowdfunded (playing Solasta and Last Epoch currently) but I still never got in on the crowdfunding stage because I'm neither that trusting nor that desperate.

    Steam early access when the game is playable and looks good to me is early enough for me to jump in but even then that's an exception for me.

    Fund the game however you want and release it... then I'll take a look at what you did and buy it or not. Works for me.
    Gdemamiblamo2000[Deleted User]
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,287
    Babuinix said:
    Ungood said:
    Babuinix said:
    Ungood said:
    Babuinix said:
    Ungood said:
    Babuinix said:
    Ungood said:
    Mars_OMG said:
    Star Citizen - Still in Development/Not Playable - Progress being made but still - Fail.

    Star Citizen - Alpha : Playable. 
    So it has an Playable Alpha now? Congrats.. that does not change that post, given when it was made, it was valid.
    It has had a "playable" alpha build available to all backers since October 2013 in the form of the Hangar Module. And despite still a alpha It's been the most streamed and watched space game on Twitch surpassing games like NoManSky, EvE, Elite and so on :D
    Oh right, that was mentioned. IIRC did not accept that as being in a playable state because it was just limited time events, not continuously available, like Crowfall's Open Alpha, and Dual Universe's Open Beta.

    What? These weren't "limited time events" lol

    They released the first playable build in 2013 and it has been available to all backers since then while being updated along the years.

    I dunno where you are getting your info but it's not from a reliable source lol
    Source please.

    How can you not know that Star Citizen has had a playable version since 2013? There's gameplay plastered all around the internet along with Twitch streamers lol :D

    Look, I love your belief in this game, and given your other posts, you are a truer fan of this game. But, even Cloud Imperium makes it clear that The Hanger Module is as the name implies, just a Hanger Simulator and not some kind of Alpha to the Actual Game.

    Here is a FAQ about it.

    So, as it stands, this does not count. 

    But keep that enthusiasm going, I love the fact that a Hanger Simulator can build that kind of faith in the game.

    This is why I support the system Crowfall/Artcraft uses, where they give their players the game to play, which builds faith in the product.
    Doesn't count for who? A random joe who can't make head or tails about a subject he made himself masters off without actually researching or  understanding what he was talking about?
     
    I'll make it simple, as courtesy:

    Kickstarter: 2012
    +
    Hangar Module: 2013
    +
    Dogfighting Module: 2014
    +
    Persistent Universe: 2015

    It's not about faith, it's proven and consistent delivery.
    It's very simple.

    Is the game in a playable State:

    Yes/No.

    Right now, the answer is No.

    They have a hanger Simulator, which is not the game. Unless I am wrong, and the whole game is a hanger simulator, which, hey, if that is what you enjoy, more power to you, enjoy.
    GdemamiBabuinix
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,287
    Nyctelios said:
    Ungood said:
    Babuinix said:
    Ungood said:
    Babuinix said:
    Ungood said:
    Babuinix said:
    Ungood said:
    Babuinix said:
    Ungood said:
    Mars_OMG said:
    Star Citizen - Still in Development/Not Playable - Progress being made but still - Fail.

    Star Citizen - Alpha : Playable. 
    So it has an Playable Alpha now? Congrats.. that does not change that post, given when it was made, it was valid.
    It has had a "playable" alpha build available to all backers since October 2013 in the form of the Hangar Module. And despite still a alpha It's been the most streamed and watched space game on Twitch surpassing games like NoManSky, EvE, Elite and so on :D
    Oh right, that was mentioned. IIRC did not accept that as being in a playable state because it was just limited time events, not continuously available, like Crowfall's Open Alpha, and Dual Universe's Open Beta.

    What? These weren't "limited time events" lol

    They released the first playable build in 2013 and it has been available to all backers since then while being updated along the years.

    I dunno where you are getting your info but it's not from a reliable source lol
    Source please.

    How can you not know that Star Citizen has had a playable version since 2013? There's gameplay plastered all around the internet along with Twitch streamers lol :D

    Look, I love your belief in this game, and given your other posts, you are a truer fan of this game. But, even Cloud Imperium makes it clear that The Hanger Module is as the name implies, just a Hanger Simulator and not some kind of Alpha to the Actual Game.

    Here is a FAQ about it.

    So, as it stands, this does not count. 

    But keep that enthusiasm going, I love the fact that a Hanger Simulator can build that kind of faith in the game.

    This is why I support the system Crowfall/Artcraft uses, where they give their players the game to play, which builds faith in the product.
    Doesn't count for who? A random joe who can't make head or tails about a subject he made himself masters off without actually researching or  understanding what he was talking about?
     
    I'll make it simple, as courtesy:

    Kickstarter: 2012
    +
    Hangar Module: 2013
    +
    Dogfighting Module: 2014
    +
    Persistent Universe: 2015

    It's not about faith, it's proven and consistent delivery.
    It's very simple.

    Is the game in a playable State:

    Yes/No.

    Right now, the answer is No.

    They have a hanger Simulator, which is not the game. Unless I am wrong, and the whole game is a hanger simulator, which, hey, if that is what you enjoy, more power to you, enjoy.
    No, it's not only hangar and you walk around.

    You go out, shoot stuff, visit the space station

    They are like adding a new map/zone per big patch. And there is a "kill the zerg" pve mode dogfight
    Is THE GAME, in a playable state?

    Can I log in today and play the actual game, yes/no?
    Gdemami
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,851
    tzervo said:
    Ungood said:
    A Scam is Defined as: "A Dishonest Scheme"

    As such:

    Screwing up.
    Failing.
    Making Mistakes.
    Overestimating your own Competency.

    Are not Scams.

    Now, before you get into what you think a scam is, you do not get to just invent what you want words mean. If you want to call something a scam, that is the definition of the word.

    They said they were going to make a game, and they made something playable.

    TLDR:

    Fucking Up is not a Scam.
    Heh, reminded me of a specific thread where a poster linked a review of himself calling a game that he sunk around 2k hours in "a scam".

    You just need to learn to speak "gamer": scam="fails to meet my expectations", "failed", "late" or just "game pissed me off"
    The defining question to me has always been:  Did the Developers really think they could deliver what they said, with the budget they claimed, and in the time they said?   Or did they lie about 1,2 or all 3 in order to get people to give them money?

    The first is gross incompetence.  The second IMHO is fraud and/or a scam.
    Hofstadter's Law says that it will take longer than you think, even if you account for Hofstadter's Law.  That's very common in computer programming, and worse for large, complicated projects than for small ones.  Ambitious games tend to be very large and complicated.
    [Deleted User]Gdemami
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,896
    Quizzical said:
    tzervo said:
    Ungood said:
    A Scam is Defined as: "A Dishonest Scheme"

    As such:

    Screwing up.
    Failing.
    Making Mistakes.
    Overestimating your own Competency.

    Are not Scams.

    Now, before you get into what you think a scam is, you do not get to just invent what you want words mean. If you want to call something a scam, that is the definition of the word.

    They said they were going to make a game, and they made something playable.

    TLDR:

    Fucking Up is not a Scam.
    Heh, reminded me of a specific thread where a poster linked a review of himself calling a game that he sunk around 2k hours in "a scam".

    You just need to learn to speak "gamer": scam="fails to meet my expectations", "failed", "late" or just "game pissed me off"
    The defining question to me has always been:  Did the Developers really think they could deliver what they said, with the budget they claimed, and in the time they said?   Or did they lie about 1,2 or all 3 in order to get people to give them money?

    The first is gross incompetence.  The second IMHO is fraud and/or a scam.
    Hofstadter's Law says that it will take longer than you think, even if you account for Hofstadter's Law.  That's very common in computer programming, and worse for large, complicated projects than for small ones.  Ambitious games tend to be very large and complicated.
    Sure.  But some of these guys are industry vets with decades of experience in making MMORPGs...  if you know that...  shouldn’t they know that?
    BrainyYashaXGdemami

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • blamo2000blamo2000 Member RarePosts: 1,128
    Iselin said:
    blamo2000 said:

    Kyleran said:


    Iselin said:

    And yet $65K were raised by this scam. Gamers are very easy marks apparently even when the scam is so obvious.


    Still too many people out there who believe





    Some of my favorite games were crowd funded. I'd say over 50% of the games I really enjoy since 2014/2015 were all crowd funded.

    Why would I not believe in the thing that is giving my over half the games I like? Granted, it slowed way down in the last couple or three years, but that doesn't change the fact of what I stated above.

    Divinity Orginal Sin, Wasteland, Pillars of Eternity, to name some of the bigger ones people on here most likely heard of. It looks like the only one I really wanted and am getting burned on is Realms Beyond. One of the last ones I funded I can think of off-hand, Encased, is definitely releasing.
    Crowdfunding single player games is a whole different thing than crowdfunding MMOs. MMOs are just plain too big, take too much money and too much time to make compared to the successful single player games. Every single one of the CF MMO projects also has some pie in the sky release date that is routinely missed by multiple years. That IMO is a deliberately deceitful rosy picture painted to get donations because not many would be interested in putting down their money now if the estimated delivery dates were realistic as in 7 to 10 year. That deception is a bad start and doesn't sit well with me because it makes me wonder what else they're willing to be deceitful about.

    I play and have played a lot of games that started out as crowdfunded (playing Solasta and Last Epoch currently) but I still never got in on the crowdfunding stage because I'm neither that trusting nor that desperate.

    Steam early access when the game is playable and looks good to me is early enough for me to jump in but even then that's an exception for me.

    Fund the game however you want and release it... then I'll take a look at what you did and buy it or not. Works for me.
    Yeah, almost all my burns were mmorpgs.  We did get the new Richard Garrot game I forget the name of off-hand, but I don't think it was awful.  And I played in SP mode so I'm not even sure if I can count it.  
    Gdemami
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,001
    Ungood said:
    It's very simple.
    Is the game in a playable State:
    Yes/No.
    Right now, the answer is No.
    They have a hanger Simulator, which is not the game. Unless I am wrong, and the whole game is a hanger simulator, which, hey, if that is what you enjoy, more power to you, enjoy.
    Sorry but there must be some kind of misunderstanding here.

    These modules were released and have been available to play since the following years:
    Babuinix said:
    > Hangar Module: 2013+
    > Dogfighting Module: 2014+
    > Persistent Universe: 2015+
    All those modules have been playable and have been  updated along the years.

    Recently, like in the last week, one was disabled at the request of the community as it was redundant and created confusion to new players (the hangar module).



    So... TLDR:
    Ungood said:
    It's very simple.
    Is the game in a playable State:
    Yes:

    Hangar Module since 2013 (Disabled last week though)
    Dogfighting/Racing Module since 2014
    Online Universe since 2015


  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,851
    Quizzical said:
    tzervo said:
    Ungood said:
    A Scam is Defined as: "A Dishonest Scheme"

    As such:

    Screwing up.
    Failing.
    Making Mistakes.
    Overestimating your own Competency.

    Are not Scams.

    Now, before you get into what you think a scam is, you do not get to just invent what you want words mean. If you want to call something a scam, that is the definition of the word.

    They said they were going to make a game, and they made something playable.

    TLDR:

    Fucking Up is not a Scam.
    Heh, reminded me of a specific thread where a poster linked a review of himself calling a game that he sunk around 2k hours in "a scam".

    You just need to learn to speak "gamer": scam="fails to meet my expectations", "failed", "late" or just "game pissed me off"
    The defining question to me has always been:  Did the Developers really think they could deliver what they said, with the budget they claimed, and in the time they said?   Or did they lie about 1,2 or all 3 in order to get people to give them money?

    The first is gross incompetence.  The second IMHO is fraud and/or a scam.
    Hofstadter's Law says that it will take longer than you think, even if you account for Hofstadter's Law.  That's very common in computer programming, and worse for large, complicated projects than for small ones.  Ambitious games tend to be very large and complicated.
    Sure.  But some of these guys are industry vets with decades of experience in making MMORPGs...  if you know that...  shouldn’t they know that?
    You don't understand.  It's not that computer programming takes novices longer than they expect and eventually they figure out how to estimate it better.  It's that for complex projects, even once you have a lot of experience and try to build in a lot of room for things to take longer than they should, it will still take longer than your new estimate.

    And even that assumes that you have no mission creep.  Which you probably will, as if you ruthlessly axe all ideas that you come up with after you start work on the game, it's going to be a terrible game.
    Sovrath
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,896
    Quizzical said:
    Quizzical said:
    tzervo said:
    Ungood said:
    A Scam is Defined as: "A Dishonest Scheme"

    As such:

    Screwing up.
    Failing.
    Making Mistakes.
    Overestimating your own Competency.

    Are not Scams.

    Now, before you get into what you think a scam is, you do not get to just invent what you want words mean. If you want to call something a scam, that is the definition of the word.

    They said they were going to make a game, and they made something playable.

    TLDR:

    Fucking Up is not a Scam.
    Heh, reminded me of a specific thread where a poster linked a review of himself calling a game that he sunk around 2k hours in "a scam".

    You just need to learn to speak "gamer": scam="fails to meet my expectations", "failed", "late" or just "game pissed me off"
    The defining question to me has always been:  Did the Developers really think they could deliver what they said, with the budget they claimed, and in the time they said?   Or did they lie about 1,2 or all 3 in order to get people to give them money?

    The first is gross incompetence.  The second IMHO is fraud and/or a scam.
    Hofstadter's Law says that it will take longer than you think, even if you account for Hofstadter's Law.  That's very common in computer programming, and worse for large, complicated projects than for small ones.  Ambitious games tend to be very large and complicated.
    Sure.  But some of these guys are industry vets with decades of experience in making MMORPGs...  if you know that...  shouldn’t they know that?
    You don't understand.  It's not that computer programming takes novices longer than they expect and eventually they figure out how to estimate it better.  It's that for complex projects, even once you have a lot of experience and try to build in a lot of room for things to take longer than they should, it will still take longer than your new estimate.

    And even that assumes that you have no mission creep.  Which you probably will, as if you ruthlessly axe all ideas that you come up with after you start work on the game, it's going to be a terrible game.
    I do understand.  My point is that many of these guys have built MMORPGs before, and thus should know that.   Or does that only hold true for their second and third games and not for the first one (or second) they already completed from start to finish?

    YashaXGdemami

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited June 2021
    I do understand.  My point is that many of these guys have built MMORPGs before, and thus should know that.   Or does that only hold true for their second and third games and not for the first one (or second) they already completed from start to finish?

    ...priceless.

    Such simple theorem so far out of your reach.

    Speaks volumes, unsuprisingly.
    KyleranIselinAsm0deus
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,975
    edited June 2021
    Gdemami said:
    I do understand.  My point is that many of these guys have built MMORPGs before, and thus should know that.   Or does that only hold true for their second and third games and not for the first one (or second) they already completed from start to finish?

    ...priceless.

    Such simple theorem so far out of your reach.

    Speaks volumes, unsuprisingly.
    When you chose to comment so rarely it is rather easy to disparage a posters overall position by picking out something that was not completely thought through. I take onboard what Quizzical says but we have seen developers not learning from their mistakes, mistakes which they should have caught having already made MMORPG's before. So this is not just about the complexity of making a game no matter what you have achieved before, it is about making poor decisions even when you have a wealth of experience in the industry.
    GdemamiSlapshot1188Kyleran
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