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High Fantasy PVP game?

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  • GorweGorwe Member Posts: 636
    edited May 30
    Gorwe said:
    Gorwe said:
    Warhammer Online(via Return of Reckoning server)? It can be a full PvP game if that's what you wish.

    Would you characterize Warhammer as high fantasy? From what I've seen of it looked pretty low fantasy to me, especially in the table top RPG book I had a chance to look through. I've haven't had much exposure to it though, so it could what I saw just featured that aspect.

    It's got a ton of non-human races, loads of monsters, demons from other realms and loads of magic.

    Its about as high-fantasy as you can get.

    Not necessarily. I have to think about this one, but. Colloquially? Yes, it can be seen as such.

    The scale of low-to-high fantasy is about how near or far you are from Earth's reality and history.


    The closer you are to reality, the more low fantasy you are. The further away from reality, the higher the fantasy (i.e. there is a high level of fantasy).


    That's not the definition I've seen and tend to personally go by, but I'm sure there are others that define it as you and it may well be the common interpretation.

    What I consider is the degree of fantasy, which I mainly equate to the level of magic in a world. The more common it is, the more convenient, the greater the degree of power that can be commanded, the higher the level of fantasy I attribute to it.

    Tons of non-human races, monsters, and planar interlopers are all unnatural, but not necessarily all that fantastical.

    An orc is largely like a brutish, human warrior would be, at least in most of the settings I'm familiar with. Many monsters come down to what would be an odd collection of natural creatures.

    Demons from other planes would normally qualify as high magic, but there is also a large number of them depicted as marginally better than humans, which would be extremely underwhelming if it required a continuous ritual lasting a week to first penetrate the veil between realms before one could be brought over.

    So basically, I'm wondering if Warhammer is a world of common magic easily cast to grand effect or it is one where magic is rare, difficult to cast, and even then moderate in effect without the benefit of extended ritual and the like.
    I pretty much agree with this. 
    I consider the degree of "fantasy" to be about how much magical aspects pervades the world. 
    So a world where the magical aspects is commonplace (not just among the players, but also among the NPC's side of things) is what I consider "high fantasy." 
    A look at daily life in the cities and it's NPCs is a good place to make a judgement call. 

    Still, the middle ground can be very hard to judge in an MMORPG. It's probably another one of those things that's best left to individual opinion. 



    So, what is Warhammer Fantasy? Further questions: Do Nuln and Ulthuan differ? How about Bohsenfels(or Ubersreik) and Altdorf? Magritta and Skeggi? Gotland and Khemri? 5th edition and 6th edition?
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 4,421
    Gorwe said:
    Gorwe said:
    Gorwe said:
    Warhammer Online(via Return of Reckoning server)? It can be a full PvP game if that's what you wish.

    Would you characterize Warhammer as high fantasy? From what I've seen of it looked pretty low fantasy to me, especially in the table top RPG book I had a chance to look through. I've haven't had much exposure to it though, so it could what I saw just featured that aspect.

    It's got a ton of non-human races, loads of monsters, demons from other realms and loads of magic.

    Its about as high-fantasy as you can get.

    Not necessarily. I have to think about this one, but. Colloquially? Yes, it can be seen as such.

    The scale of low-to-high fantasy is about how near or far you are from Earth's reality and history.


    The closer you are to reality, the more low fantasy you are. The further away from reality, the higher the fantasy (i.e. there is a high level of fantasy).


    That's not the definition I've seen and tend to personally go by, but I'm sure there are others that define it as you and it may well be the common interpretation.

    What I consider is the degree of fantasy, which I mainly equate to the level of magic in a world. The more common it is, the more convenient, the greater the degree of power that can be commanded, the higher the level of fantasy I attribute to it.

    Tons of non-human races, monsters, and planar interlopers are all unnatural, but not necessarily all that fantastical.

    An orc is largely like a brutish, human warrior would be, at least in most of the settings I'm familiar with. Many monsters come down to what would be an odd collection of natural creatures.

    Demons from other planes would normally qualify as high magic, but there is also a large number of them depicted as marginally better than humans, which would be extremely underwhelming if it required a continuous ritual lasting a week to first penetrate the veil between realms before one could be brought over.

    So basically, I'm wondering if Warhammer is a world of common magic easily cast to grand effect or it is one where magic is rare, difficult to cast, and even then moderate in effect without the benefit of extended ritual and the like.
    I pretty much agree with this. 
    I consider the degree of "fantasy" to be about how much magical aspects pervades the world. 
    So a world where the magical aspects is commonplace (not just among the players, but also among the NPC's side of things) is what I consider "high fantasy." 
    A look at daily life in the cities and it's NPCs is a good place to make a judgement call. 

    Still, the middle ground can be very hard to judge in an MMORPG. It's probably another one of those things that's best left to individual opinion. 



    So, what is Warhammer Fantasy? Further questions: Do Nuln and Ulthuan differ? How about Bohsenfels(or Ubersreik) and Altdorf? Magritta and Skeggi? Gotland and Khemri? 5th edition and 6th edition?
    Hell if I know. I've never played it. 
    I'd say that DAoC was low fantasy, WoW felt high fantasy to me because of the magic feel that was dominant in the game world, or most parts of it. 
    Pure opinion, though. 
    Gorwe

    Once upon a time....

  • GorweGorwe Member Posts: 636
    Gorwe said:
    Gorwe said:
    Gorwe said:
    Warhammer Online(via Return of Reckoning server)? It can be a full PvP game if that's what you wish.

    Would you characterize Warhammer as high fantasy? From what I've seen of it looked pretty low fantasy to me, especially in the table top RPG book I had a chance to look through. I've haven't had much exposure to it though, so it could what I saw just featured that aspect.

    It's got a ton of non-human races, loads of monsters, demons from other realms and loads of magic.

    Its about as high-fantasy as you can get.

    Not necessarily. I have to think about this one, but. Colloquially? Yes, it can be seen as such.

    The scale of low-to-high fantasy is about how near or far you are from Earth's reality and history.


    The closer you are to reality, the more low fantasy you are. The further away from reality, the higher the fantasy (i.e. there is a high level of fantasy).


    That's not the definition I've seen and tend to personally go by, but I'm sure there are others that define it as you and it may well be the common interpretation.

    What I consider is the degree of fantasy, which I mainly equate to the level of magic in a world. The more common it is, the more convenient, the greater the degree of power that can be commanded, the higher the level of fantasy I attribute to it.

    Tons of non-human races, monsters, and planar interlopers are all unnatural, but not necessarily all that fantastical.

    An orc is largely like a brutish, human warrior would be, at least in most of the settings I'm familiar with. Many monsters come down to what would be an odd collection of natural creatures.

    Demons from other planes would normally qualify as high magic, but there is also a large number of them depicted as marginally better than humans, which would be extremely underwhelming if it required a continuous ritual lasting a week to first penetrate the veil between realms before one could be brought over.

    So basically, I'm wondering if Warhammer is a world of common magic easily cast to grand effect or it is one where magic is rare, difficult to cast, and even then moderate in effect without the benefit of extended ritual and the like.
    I pretty much agree with this. 
    I consider the degree of "fantasy" to be about how much magical aspects pervades the world. 
    So a world where the magical aspects is commonplace (not just among the players, but also among the NPC's side of things) is what I consider "high fantasy." 
    A look at daily life in the cities and it's NPCs is a good place to make a judgement call. 

    Still, the middle ground can be very hard to judge in an MMORPG. It's probably another one of those things that's best left to individual opinion. 



    So, what is Warhammer Fantasy? Further questions: Do Nuln and Ulthuan differ? How about Bohsenfels(or Ubersreik) and Altdorf? Magritta and Skeggi? Gotland and Khemri? 5th edition and 6th edition?
    Hell if I know. I've never played it. 
    I'd say that DAoC was low fantasy, WoW felt high fantasy to me because of the magic feel that was dominant in the game world, or most parts of it. 
    Pure opinion, though. 

    DAoC is Low Fantasy, while WoW is High Fantasy, yes. Wouldn't necessarily say Warcraft(in general) is anything above High Fantasy. Warhammer is in between, imo, but it all depends there.
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 4,421
    Gorwe said:
    Gorwe said:
    Gorwe said:
    Gorwe said:
    Warhammer Online(via Return of Reckoning server)? It can be a full PvP game if that's what you wish.

    Would you characterize Warhammer as high fantasy? From what I've seen of it looked pretty low fantasy to me, especially in the table top RPG book I had a chance to look through. I've haven't had much exposure to it though, so it could what I saw just featured that aspect.

    It's got a ton of non-human races, loads of monsters, demons from other realms and loads of magic.

    Its about as high-fantasy as you can get.

    Not necessarily. I have to think about this one, but. Colloquially? Yes, it can be seen as such.

    The scale of low-to-high fantasy is about how near or far you are from Earth's reality and history.


    The closer you are to reality, the more low fantasy you are. The further away from reality, the higher the fantasy (i.e. there is a high level of fantasy).


    That's not the definition I've seen and tend to personally go by, but I'm sure there are others that define it as you and it may well be the common interpretation.

    What I consider is the degree of fantasy, which I mainly equate to the level of magic in a world. The more common it is, the more convenient, the greater the degree of power that can be commanded, the higher the level of fantasy I attribute to it.

    Tons of non-human races, monsters, and planar interlopers are all unnatural, but not necessarily all that fantastical.

    An orc is largely like a brutish, human warrior would be, at least in most of the settings I'm familiar with. Many monsters come down to what would be an odd collection of natural creatures.

    Demons from other planes would normally qualify as high magic, but there is also a large number of them depicted as marginally better than humans, which would be extremely underwhelming if it required a continuous ritual lasting a week to first penetrate the veil between realms before one could be brought over.

    So basically, I'm wondering if Warhammer is a world of common magic easily cast to grand effect or it is one where magic is rare, difficult to cast, and even then moderate in effect without the benefit of extended ritual and the like.
    I pretty much agree with this. 
    I consider the degree of "fantasy" to be about how much magical aspects pervades the world. 
    So a world where the magical aspects is commonplace (not just among the players, but also among the NPC's side of things) is what I consider "high fantasy." 
    A look at daily life in the cities and it's NPCs is a good place to make a judgement call. 

    Still, the middle ground can be very hard to judge in an MMORPG. It's probably another one of those things that's best left to individual opinion. 



    So, what is Warhammer Fantasy? Further questions: Do Nuln and Ulthuan differ? How about Bohsenfels(or Ubersreik) and Altdorf? Magritta and Skeggi? Gotland and Khemri? 5th edition and 6th edition?
    Hell if I know. I've never played it. 
    I'd say that DAoC was low fantasy, WoW felt high fantasy to me because of the magic feel that was dominant in the game world, or most parts of it. 
    Pure opinion, though. 

    DAoC is Low Fantasy, while WoW is High Fantasy, yes. Wouldn't necessarily say Warcraft(in general) is anything above High Fantasy. Warhammer is in between, imo, but it all depends there.
    That was always sort of my feeling, in between or closer to low fantasy. I've seen the son of a D&D (P+P) friend play Warhammer, and what little I saw of the computer games didn't change my mind on that. 

    It seems hard for me to put down a list of elements as a guide to separate the two. It's more about the game world and just how much magical-ness hits you as far as the "physics" of that world. 

    Once upon a time....

  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 2,998
    Magic is indeed one barometer of fantasy: it doesn't exist on Earth or in our history, so if it does exist in the IP then it's clearly a fantasy.


    But Orcs, Elves, Minotaurs etc are all also pure fantasy. So, even without magic, the existence of non-human intelligent races is fantasy, generally tending towards high fantasy.



    With magic in the Warhammer IP, it is relatively common, but still somewhat exclusive. In the tabletop game (old version, no idea about modern stuff) you'd only have one or two characters per army that could use magic. It could be pretty overpowered if the spells landed, but that was down to the dice gods. In Warhammer video games and books, magic seems to be more common
    YashaX
  • GorweGorwe Member Posts: 636
    Magic is indeed one barometer of fantasy: it doesn't exist on Earth or in our history, so if it does exist in the IP then it's clearly a fantasy.


    But Orcs, Elves, Minotaurs etc are all also pure fantasy. So, even without magic, the existence of non-human intelligent races is fantasy, generally tending towards high fantasy.



    With magic in the Warhammer IP, it is relatively common, but still somewhat exclusive. In the tabletop game (old version, no idea about modern stuff) you'd only have one or two characters per army that could use magic. It could be pretty overpowered if the spells landed, but that was down to the dice gods. In Warhammer video games and books, magic seems to be more common
    Perhaps it might seem as more common. But it isn't and it still reqquires quite a lot care and aptitude to use(otherwise bad things happen).

    I could see it as High Fantasy, but I'm much more willing to categorize it under the "Mid Fantasy" term. Meaning, fluctuating between Low and High Fantasy, depending on a lot of things.

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 1,869
    Gorwe said:
    Gorwe said:
    Gorwe said:
    Warhammer Online(via Return of Reckoning server)? It can be a full PvP game if that's what you wish.

    Would you characterize Warhammer as high fantasy? From what I've seen of it looked pretty low fantasy to me, especially in the table top RPG book I had a chance to look through. I've haven't had much exposure to it though, so it could what I saw just featured that aspect.

    It's got a ton of non-human races, loads of monsters, demons from other realms and loads of magic.

    Its about as high-fantasy as you can get.

    Not necessarily. I have to think about this one, but. Colloquially? Yes, it can be seen as such.

    The scale of low-to-high fantasy is about how near or far you are from Earth's reality and history.


    The closer you are to reality, the more low fantasy you are. The further away from reality, the higher the fantasy (i.e. there is a high level of fantasy).


    That's not the definition I've seen and tend to personally go by, but I'm sure there are others that define it as you and it may well be the common interpretation.

    What I consider is the degree of fantasy, which I mainly equate to the level of magic in a world. The more common it is, the more convenient, the greater the degree of power that can be commanded, the higher the level of fantasy I attribute to it.

    Tons of non-human races, monsters, and planar interlopers are all unnatural, but not necessarily all that fantastical.

    An orc is largely like a brutish, human warrior would be, at least in most of the settings I'm familiar with. Many monsters come down to what would be an odd collection of natural creatures.

    Demons from other planes would normally qualify as high magic, but there is also a large number of them depicted as marginally better than humans, which would be extremely underwhelming if it required a continuous ritual lasting a week to first penetrate the veil between realms before one could be brought over.

    So basically, I'm wondering if Warhammer is a world of common magic easily cast to grand effect or it is one where magic is rare, difficult to cast, and even then moderate in effect without the benefit of extended ritual and the like.

    It all depends on a lot of factors.

    First is the scale we are using. And whether it contains "mid fantasy"(very important). Warhammer is known to straddle quite a lot of lines here and, if using this scale, it'd probably indeed fall into the "MID FANTASY". But it also depends on WHERE and WHEN Warhammer takes place. Nuln, Stirland etc would most likely be "Low Fantasy", while Ulthuan is most likely to be "High Fantasy". Big battles(and such, like the End Times) are "Epic Fantasy". That is the SECOND point.

    Finally, it all depends on how distant from this world, Earth, the setting is(and other accompanying factors). Warhammer Fantasy is probably like Conan, a fictional version of our history. Factions and even geography looks awfully Earth like(say...Norsca? Like NorSca? North Scandinavia?). Also, Magic is rather rare and dangerous, not every schmuck can use it(and even fewer safely)...quite anti High Fantasy.

    Conclusion: Warhammer Fantasy is a very rich setting where most everyone can find what he is looking for(a bit more of typical good vs evil adventures wouldn't be amiss). However, most of time, it is a Nobledark Midfantasy setting. That's my evaluation, discussion appreciated.

    Thank you for your response. That's quite interesting. So, it basically varies extensively by place and time rather than having consistency throughout, making it difficult to narrowly classify.

    If I recall correctly the book I looked at was Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, or at least similarly named. That was quite some time ago. I think it may have been the first edition. One of the things a player could aspire to be was a Rat Catcher! That and many other elements, such as the artwork, gave me the impression that the setting was lower fantasy overall, but that was obviously not enough exposure for me to be accurate in my supposition.
    AmarantharGorwe
  • GorweGorwe Member Posts: 636
    edited May 31
    Gorwe said:
    Gorwe said:
    Gorwe said:
    Warhammer Online(via Return of Reckoning server)? It can be a full PvP game if that's what you wish.

    Would you characterize Warhammer as high fantasy? From what I've seen of it looked pretty low fantasy to me, especially in the table top RPG book I had a chance to look through. I've haven't had much exposure to it though, so it could what I saw just featured that aspect.

    It's got a ton of non-human races, loads of monsters, demons from other realms and loads of magic.

    Its about as high-fantasy as you can get.

    Not necessarily. I have to think about this one, but. Colloquially? Yes, it can be seen as such.

    The scale of low-to-high fantasy is about how near or far you are from Earth's reality and history.


    The closer you are to reality, the more low fantasy you are. The further away from reality, the higher the fantasy (i.e. there is a high level of fantasy).


    That's not the definition I've seen and tend to personally go by, but I'm sure there are others that define it as you and it may well be the common interpretation.

    What I consider is the degree of fantasy, which I mainly equate to the level of magic in a world. The more common it is, the more convenient, the greater the degree of power that can be commanded, the higher the level of fantasy I attribute to it.

    Tons of non-human races, monsters, and planar interlopers are all unnatural, but not necessarily all that fantastical.

    An orc is largely like a brutish, human warrior would be, at least in most of the settings I'm familiar with. Many monsters come down to what would be an odd collection of natural creatures.

    Demons from other planes would normally qualify as high magic, but there is also a large number of them depicted as marginally better than humans, which would be extremely underwhelming if it required a continuous ritual lasting a week to first penetrate the veil between realms before one could be brought over.

    So basically, I'm wondering if Warhammer is a world of common magic easily cast to grand effect or it is one where magic is rare, difficult to cast, and even then moderate in effect without the benefit of extended ritual and the like.

    It all depends on a lot of factors.

    First is the scale we are using. And whether it contains "mid fantasy"(very important). Warhammer is known to straddle quite a lot of lines here and, if using this scale, it'd probably indeed fall into the "MID FANTASY". But it also depends on WHERE and WHEN Warhammer takes place. Nuln, Stirland etc would most likely be "Low Fantasy", while Ulthuan is most likely to be "High Fantasy". Big battles(and such, like the End Times) are "Epic Fantasy". That is the SECOND point.

    Finally, it all depends on how distant from this world, Earth, the setting is(and other accompanying factors). Warhammer Fantasy is probably like Conan, a fictional version of our history. Factions and even geography looks awfully Earth like(say...Norsca? Like NorSca? North Scandinavia?). Also, Magic is rather rare and dangerous, not every schmuck can use it(and even fewer safely)...quite anti High Fantasy.

    Conclusion: Warhammer Fantasy is a very rich setting where most everyone can find what he is looking for(a bit more of typical good vs evil adventures wouldn't be amiss). However, most of time, it is a Nobledark Midfantasy setting. That's my evaluation, discussion appreciated.

    Thank you for your response. That's quite interesting. So, it basically varies extensively by place and time rather than having consistency throughout, making it difficult to narrowly classify.

    If I recall correctly the book I looked at was Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, or at least similarly named. That was quite some time ago. I think it may have been the first edition. One of the things a player could aspire to be was a Rat Catcher! That and many other elements, such as the artwork, gave me the impression that the setting was lower fantasy overall, but that was obviously not enough exposure for me to be accurate in my supposition.

    Yes, that's most likely WHFRPG 1st Ed. The entire reason why it might give off a rather bleak outlook is because it was released during Warhammer Fantasy 2nd Edition, probably second most "realistic" and grimdark edition after Warhammer Fantasy 6th(2nd was rather panned at the time).

    And, yes, it is quite a Low Fantasy romp. There are plenty of other, more fantastic not only places, but also entire Editions. 5th Edition basically reads like both more silly, more large and slightly more dark DnD. While 6th is...40k atmosphere + Fantasy setting / rules. Athel Loren(think Lothlorien or Fangorn, maybe more of a Fangorn, though Doriath would be the most precise analogy imo) is naturally(excuse the pun) more fantastic than almost steampunk Nuln.

    It's a very rich setting. Feel free to ask anything.
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,660
    Just a slightly unrelated (not pvp game) bump for @Gorwe, without addressing the high vs. low fantasy nature of Warhammer :)

    There's a nice free pack on GOG now, some WH pdfs, WH40k music, WH merch discount, and the first WH game from the 90s:

    (ok, technically not the first, Blood Bowl was before that, but that's not entirely Warhammer I believe...)
    Gorwe
  • GorweGorwe Member Posts: 636
    edited June 4
    Po_gg said:
    Just a slightly unrelated (not pvp game) bump for @Gorwe, without addressing the high vs. low fantasy nature of Warhammer :)

    There's a nice free pack on GOG now, some WH pdfs, WH40k music, WH merch discount, and the first WH game from the 90s:

    (ok, technically not the first, Blood Bowl was before that, but that's not entirely Warhammer I believe...)

    Much appreciated, but there's barely anything interesting on offer in that coupon. Mostly because GW merch depresses me ; man they earn so much and their merch is so ... bereft of spirit and effort ; most of it is copy paste with another picture. Hired Gun mug does look cool though.

    I wonder...whether the inclusion of Shadow is GOG's idea or GW's. If it's the latter one, then that opens some interesting questions.
    Po_gg
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,660
    edited June 6
    Gorwe said:
    Much appreciated, but there's barely anything interesting on offer in that coupon. Mostly because GW merch depresses me ; man they earn so much and their merch is so ... bereft of spirit and effort ; most of it is copy paste with another picture. Hired Gun mug does look cool though.
    Yep, it's a lackluster indeed. Just looked it up, and it ain't much more than any smalltime indie firm's lineup... printed t-shirts, mugs, pillows.
    One'd expect at least some statuettes or figurines, based on more detailed of the minis, let's say in 20-30cm sized version, etc.

    Still, with tossing the coupon aside it's a nice freebie. The artbook, the OST, even the shorter books are fine. Same goes for the game itself, a trip down to memory lane... its manual is 100+ pages long, can you imagine a "gamer" of today facing that? :D

    In the era of streamlining and watering down all, not to mention the generation of "tl;dr", not reading anything longer than a dozen pages... (unless it's Potter)
    Gorwe said:
    I wonder...whether the inclusion of Shadow is GOG's idea or GW's. If it's the latter one, then that opens some interesting questions.
    I believe it was GOG, they often put up themed giveaways (Chaos Gate was for free in the past too, though that's 40k).
    Interesting questions, you mean GW's potential future course, focus on the Old World?



    ed.:  hmmm, interesting indeed, now that I mentioned Chaos Gate as an example, turns out
    Gorwe
  • GorweGorwe Member Posts: 636
    Po_gg said:
    Gorwe said:
    Much appreciated, but there's barely anything interesting on offer in that coupon. Mostly because GW merch depresses me ; man they earn so much and their merch is so ... bereft of spirit and effort ; most of it is copy paste with another picture. Hired Gun mug does look cool though.
    Yep, it's a lackluster indeed. Just looked it up, and it ain't much more than any smalltime indie firm's lineup... printed t-shirts, mugs, pillows.
    One'd expect at least some statuettes or figurines, based on more detailed of the minis, let's say in 20-30cm sized version, etc.

    Still, with tossing the coupon aside it's a nice freebie. The artbook, the OST, even the shorter books are fine. Same goes for the game itself, a trip down to memory lane... its manual is 100+ pages long, can you imagine a "gamer" of today facing that? :D

    In the era of streamlining and watering down all, not to mention the generation of "tl;dr", not reading anything longer than a dozen pages... (unless it's Potter)
    Gorwe said:
    I wonder...whether the inclusion of Shadow is GOG's idea or GW's. If it's the latter one, then that opens some interesting questions.
    I believe it was GOG, they often put up themed giveaways (Chaos Gate was for free in the past too, though that's 40k).
    Interesting questions, you mean GW's potential future course, focus on the Old World?



    ed.:  hmmm, interesting indeed, now that I mentioned Chaos Gate as an example, turns out

    I mean, the mugs are so basic. Exactly like some small indie lol.
  • ringdanyringdany Member UncommonPosts: 171
    edited June 12
    comitron said:
    Why do we not see a pvp game based on high fantasy elements? it would seem to be a no brainer to me. Imagine Call of Duty but high fantasy instead of guns. You would create a character... Mage, Fighter, Healer, Rogue, and level them up the same way as Call of Duty. The more you level up the, more skills you unlock, the more money you make, the more armor/swords/spells you have access to. You can even create a progression system where you build your own class/loadouts, based on how many skill points you spend in a tree etc. Maybe mix in elements of fortnight, where you loot chests with armor/weapons. There used to be a game(cant recall the name now) where there were three teams i believe, and there were objectives that needed to be completed in order to own the tunnels, and allow you to get more resources etc.. anyway idea being that there is a ton of ideas that can be wrapped around this and would never have to play typical pve go quest, level up.. but level up while playing in PVP ala' Call of Duty Style.

    Champions of Regnum does pretty much exactly what you describe, except that Regnum is 3rd person view.

    Especially following the 2021 Anniversary update in May 2021 - they made it even low levels can join RvR pvp immediately. The grind has been removed and you can level purely through pvp.

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