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  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,166
    Cecropia said:
    Cecropia said:
    Cecropia said:
    Cecropia said:
    And just like that...

    Thanks to the Freedom of Information Act, we now all have access to an enormous amount of emails Dr. Fauci was sending to his colleagues earlier in the year. Here's a beauty from February 5th 2020:

    "The typical mask you buy in the drug store is not really effective in keeping out virus, which is small enough to pass through the material". 

    There is so much more it's insane. Congratulations folks, you've all been lied to for well over a year and you completely fell for it. 

    This is only the beginning. Wake the hell up!

    That solitary remark taken out of context sure was convincing...

    This is the kind of thing that prevents serious-minded people from taking you seriously.
    Out of context???

    It's his own words and there is no room for interpretation. What does it take for you to open your eyes?

    It is terrifying how easily manipulated a certain demographic of the population is.

    Yes, out of context. As in, a person's own words can be taken out of context. In this case that is quite literally so, as it is being presented entirely without.

    My eyes are open, and they see the same tired thing, day in and out. Bias, rather than impartiality. Spin, rather than fact. Selective revelation, rather than complete.

    What's more terrifying is when the one calling the kettle black doesn't even realize he's the pot.
    There is no spin, he literally said the masks don't work for Covid 19 and that it is too small to be stopped by them. 

    It would appear that you've been deeply indoctrinated to the point that nothing will ever wake you up. It's as if you can't accept that all of this has been a huge lie. 


    It depends on how the virus is spread. If it's airborne then yeah. If it's spread through droplets and surfaces then it can help some. I think at some point that your just covering all the bases in situation we don't know the answers.

    Early on there were situation where people with mask were the only ones who didn't get sick. Does that help.

    Outside of Covid most people I know haven't been sick in over year.  Maybe it's just healthy practice in general.  Places in Asia people have been wearing them for a long time.
    When you cover your airway for prolonged periods of time your body is no longer in a state of Homeostasis. When this happens your immune system is compromised. Considering these masks do not protect against viruses, this is just a bad idea.

    Also, a little common sense here, if the masks and lockdowns actually worked all of this would have been over a long time ago. 
    Apparently, you don't have social media with all the people whining, crying and breaking rules for "Freedom." So yeah,, we also have ridiculous numbers compared to most of the world. 

    If immune systems are compromised why are so many illnesses free? I for one am ready to ditch mask. Tired of them. Just not naive enough that I know people really don't know the answers and both sides have political agendas. Confirmation bias is real.  
    Gdemami
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 1,869
    KnightFalz, what you have to do is take all of that info (and not all of it is based on political agendas) and look for verifiable items. Because like all things in life, you need to try to figure it out. 
    Then you check out those verifiable items, looking for truth. 

    Fauci's e-mails, as Cecropia just pointed out, are a good source. 
    They have more than just what Cecropia related. 

    Another thing to look for are the inconsistencies. Those are where the alarm bells go off (I see you know that). But once you have those alarms, you can keep your eye out for verifiable items that answer those alarms. 

    In the end you can piece together the story, at least for as far as you can go. From there, it's more research looking for more items you can verify, i.e., more investigation. That's what's happening now.

    It's obvious that this whole thing was handled very poorly. I'm not sure how much blame can be assessed. It was chaotic in the beginning, and that chaos had a tendency to hang around due to poor judgements and political agendas. 

    I strongly suspect that we have seen the ultimate bad ending to a common problem, the "Peter Principle." 
    Where people are promoted for being good at something, often with a high degree of bureaucracy involved, until they reach a point where judgements are needed, where they fail miserably. 

    That sounds more like something I'd do at my option.

    However, I'm sure multiple truths could be constructed from the same material, each fashioned to suit the needs and wants of the maker.

    Why should I put your truth over the contrasting one of another. Why should my truth if I had bothered to construct one be put over another that contrasts it.

    Yes, it was handled poorly, especially when it came to Trumps "happy thoughts" approach to the pandemic, at least early on. It was unhelpful.

    I expect the amount of blame assessed and fallout applied will approximate the amount needed to ensure little if any of it befalls those it should.

    I don't think the "Peter Principle" is generally applied to the elected.
    GdemamiTuor7
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 4,421
    edited June 4
    KnightFalz, what you have to do is take all of that info (and not all of it is based on political agendas) and look for verifiable items. Because like all things in life, you need to try to figure it out. 
    Then you check out those verifiable items, looking for truth. 

    Fauci's e-mails, as Cecropia just pointed out, are a good source. 
    They have more than just what Cecropia related. 

    Another thing to look for are the inconsistencies. Those are where the alarm bells go off (I see you know that). But once you have those alarms, you can keep your eye out for verifiable items that answer those alarms. 

    In the end you can piece together the story, at least for as far as you can go. From there, it's more research looking for more items you can verify, i.e., more investigation. That's what's happening now.

    It's obvious that this whole thing was handled very poorly. I'm not sure how much blame can be assessed. It was chaotic in the beginning, and that chaos had a tendency to hang around due to poor judgements and political agendas. 

    I strongly suspect that we have seen the ultimate bad ending to a common problem, the "Peter Principle." 
    Where people are promoted for being good at something, often with a high degree of bureaucracy involved, until they reach a point where judgements are needed, where they fail miserably. 

    That sounds more like something I'd do at my option.

    However, I'm sure multiple truths could be constructed from the same material, each fashioned to suit the needs and wants of the maker.

    Why should I put your truth over the contrasting one of another. Why should my truth if I had bothered to construct one be put over another that contrasts it.

    Yes, it was handled poorly, especially when it came to Trumps "happy thoughts" approach to the pandemic, at least early on. It was unhelpful.

    I expect the amount of blame assessed and fallout applied will approximate the amount needed to ensure little if any of it befalls those it should.

    I don't think the "Peter Principle" is generally applied to the elected.
    The strawman lives! 

    On the side, you mention Trump negatively, but I thought he made sense and did pretty good amid all the chaos created by the folks of "science." 
    More and more is coming out on those folks, and it looks like a bunch of arse covering and federal funding protection has been going on. 
    IselinChampieCecropia

    Once upon a time....

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 1,869
    KnightFalz, what you have to do is take all of that info (and not all of it is based on political agendas) and look for verifiable items. Because like all things in life, you need to try to figure it out. 
    Then you check out those verifiable items, looking for truth. 

    Fauci's e-mails, as Cecropia just pointed out, are a good source. 
    They have more than just what Cecropia related. 

    Another thing to look for are the inconsistencies. Those are where the alarm bells go off (I see you know that). But once you have those alarms, you can keep your eye out for verifiable items that answer those alarms. 

    In the end you can piece together the story, at least for as far as you can go. From there, it's more research looking for more items you can verify, i.e., more investigation. That's what's happening now.

    It's obvious that this whole thing was handled very poorly. I'm not sure how much blame can be assessed. It was chaotic in the beginning, and that chaos had a tendency to hang around due to poor judgements and political agendas. 

    I strongly suspect that we have seen the ultimate bad ending to a common problem, the "Peter Principle." 
    Where people are promoted for being good at something, often with a high degree of bureaucracy involved, until they reach a point where judgements are needed, where they fail miserably. 

    That sounds more like something I'd do at my option.

    However, I'm sure multiple truths could be constructed from the same material, each fashioned to suit the needs and wants of the maker.

    Why should I put your truth over the contrasting one of another. Why should my truth if I had bothered to construct one be put over another that contrasts it.

    Yes, it was handled poorly, especially when it came to Trumps "happy thoughts" approach to the pandemic, at least early on. It was unhelpful.

    I expect the amount of blame assessed and fallout applied will approximate the amount needed to ensure little if any of it befalls those it should.

    I don't think the "Peter Principle" is generally applied to the elected.
    The strawman lives! 

    On the side, you mention Trump negatively, but I thought he made sense and did pretty good amid all the chaos created by the folks of "science." 
    More and more is coming out on those folks, and it looks like a bunch of arse covering and federal funding protection has been going on. 

    It is simply the way of things, evidenced in any political dispute paraded before the media and increasingly so in wider application.

    Trump could be used as the poster child in a campaign to abolish democracy by adherents of contrary political systems.

    Gdemami
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,000
    edited June 4
    I don’t give a shit about masks, Trump, none of that. 

    Millions died for no reason. Not only did they create the fucking thing that killed them they’ve silenced discussion of easily accessed medication (ivermectin) that could have eradicated COVID early on. They’ve known about it since April 2020. 

    Fauci lied, millions died. 
    IselinGdemamiMustikosTuor7
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,659
    edited June 4
    I don’t give a shit about masks, Trump, none of that. 

    Millions died for no reason. Not only did they create the fucking thing that killed them they’ve silenced discussion of easily accessed medication (ivermectin) that could have eradicated COVID early on. They’ve known about it since April 2020. 

    Fauci lied, millions died. 
    "The drug’s manufacturer, pharma giant MSD, also warned that its analysis of ivermectin identified “no scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against Covid-19 from pre-clinical studies”, “no meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with Covid-19 disease” and “a concerning lack of safety data” in most studies."

    https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/features/ivermectin-covid-19-antiparasitic-political/

    But hey, who knows maybe the manufacturer of the drug has also been corrupted by the CCP and "the folks of science."

    What a fucking joke this thread is.
    "I don't wait for games. Games wait for me."
    -- CHUCK NORRIS

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 1,869

    Fauci lied, millions died. 

    You should put that on a t-shirt and sell them to be worn along with MAGA hats.

    Opportunity knocks.
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,000
    Iselin said:
    I don’t give a shit about masks, Trump, none of that. 

    Millions died for no reason. Not only did they create the fucking thing that killed them they’ve silenced discussion of easily accessed medication (ivermectin) that could have eradicated COVID early on. They’ve known about it since April 2020. 

    Fauci lied, millions died. 
    "The drug’s manufacturer, pharma giant MSD, also warned that its analysis of ivermectin identified “no scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against Covid-19 from pre-clinical studies”, “no meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with Covid-19 disease” and “a concerning lack of safety data” in most studies."

    https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/features/ivermectin-covid-19-antiparasitic-political/

    But hey, who knows maybe the manufacturer of the drug has also been corrupted by the CCP and "the folks of science."

    What a fucking joke this thread is.
    Money. If an effective medicine is found the emergency medicine act cannot continue, thus the vaccines will not get their pass. Hundreds of millions are at stake if they found something that worked so they wont try it.

    Ivermectin has been in heavy use for 40 years with nearly zero side effects (minor at most) so the risks in testing it is zero. Yet when you go through the emails with Fauci, and all the doctors that pleaded for it to become a part of the standard regimen it was always the same answer, "We need to test it first".

    "We're going to lower the bar so these million dollar vaccines can be dispersed, but this dirt cheap completely safe medication we're raising the bar".

    Yes, it makes perfect sense. You're just trained to believe whatever they tell you.


    IselinGdemamiAmarantharCecropia
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,000
    Good boy, keep being obedient.
    Iselin
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,659
    Good boy, keep being obedient.
    You keep being a wacko dude. It suits your avatar.
    "I don't wait for games. Games wait for me."
    -- CHUCK NORRIS

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,000
    Iselin said:
    Good boy, keep being obedient.
    You keep being a wacko dude. It suits your avatar.
    You do any research yet or just keep regurgitating what they want you to say? Thought so.
    IselinCecropia
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,000
    I bet you will never watch that video. You'll never read one of the emails. You'll never think critically about anything that the cathedral tells you. You'll just comply.
    Cecropia
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,659
    Iselin said:
    Good boy, keep being obedient.
    You keep being a wacko dude. It suits your avatar.
    You do any research yet or just keep regurgitating what they want you to say? Thought so.
    I'm not aware of any "they" wanting me to say anything. I'm informed well enough to take care of myself and my family without needing to watch or listen to some wack job horseshit when the frigging manufacturer of the anti-parasitic drug themselves say there is no evidence of effectiveness in treating Covid-19 with it.

    But hey I'm done with all the idiocy in this thread. Good luck with your Youtube healthcare advice.
    ChildoftheShadowsChampieGdemami
    "I don't wait for games. Games wait for me."
    -- CHUCK NORRIS

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,000
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Good boy, keep being obedient.
    You keep being a wacko dude. It suits your avatar.
    You do any research yet or just keep regurgitating what they want you to say? Thought so.
    I'm not aware of any "they" wanting me to say anything. I'm informed well enough to take care of myself and my family without needing to watch or listen to some wack job horseshit when the frigging manufacturer of the anti-parasitic drug themselves say there is no evidence of effectiveness in treating Covid-19 with it.

    But hey I'm done with all the idiocy in this thread. Good luck with your Youtube healthcare advice.
    haha, of course you wont. You didn't even do enough research to know that there isn't -a- "manufacturer". There are many. It's been off patent for years.

    You do you. I don't care what you think anyway. You are meaningless.
    ChampieCecropia
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,659
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Good boy, keep being obedient.
    You keep being a wacko dude. It suits your avatar.
    You do any research yet or just keep regurgitating what they want you to say? Thought so.
    I'm not aware of any "they" wanting me to say anything. I'm informed well enough to take care of myself and my family without needing to watch or listen to some wack job horseshit when the frigging manufacturer of the anti-parasitic drug themselves say there is no evidence of effectiveness in treating Covid-19 with it.

    But hey I'm done with all the idiocy in this thread. Good luck with your Youtube healthcare advice.
    haha, of course you wont. You didn't even do enough research to know that there isn't -a- "manufacturer". There are many. It's been off patent for years.

    You do you. I don't care what you think anyway. You are meaningless.
    Oh so the Pharmaceutical tech article referring to MDS as "the manufacturer" got it wrong?

    You're obviously much smarter than them even though you've always been a joke around here.
    ChildoftheShadowsGdemami
    "I don't wait for games. Games wait for me."
    -- CHUCK NORRIS

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,000
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Good boy, keep being obedient.
    You keep being a wacko dude. It suits your avatar.
    You do any research yet or just keep regurgitating what they want you to say? Thought so.
    I'm not aware of any "they" wanting me to say anything. I'm informed well enough to take care of myself and my family without needing to watch or listen to some wack job horseshit when the frigging manufacturer of the anti-parasitic drug themselves say there is no evidence of effectiveness in treating Covid-19 with it.

    But hey I'm done with all the idiocy in this thread. Good luck with your Youtube healthcare advice.
    haha, of course you wont. You didn't even do enough research to know that there isn't -a- "manufacturer". There are many. It's been off patent for years.

    You do you. I don't care what you think anyway. You are meaningless.
    Oh so the Pharmaceutical tech article referring to MDS as "the manufacturer" got it wrong?

    You're obviously much smarter than them even though you've always been a joke around here.
    You’re doing just great
    Cecropia
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,659
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Good boy, keep being obedient.
    You keep being a wacko dude. It suits your avatar.
    You do any research yet or just keep regurgitating what they want you to say? Thought so.
    I'm not aware of any "they" wanting me to say anything. I'm informed well enough to take care of myself and my family without needing to watch or listen to some wack job horseshit when the frigging manufacturer of the anti-parasitic drug themselves say there is no evidence of effectiveness in treating Covid-19 with it.

    But hey I'm done with all the idiocy in this thread. Good luck with your Youtube healthcare advice.
    haha, of course you wont. You didn't even do enough research to know that there isn't -a- "manufacturer". There are many. It's been off patent for years.

    You do you. I don't care what you think anyway. You are meaningless.
    Oh so the Pharmaceutical tech article referring to MDS as "the manufacturer" got it wrong?

    You're obviously much smarter than them even though you've always been a joke around here.
    You’re doing just great


    That's you isn't it? LMAO
    "I don't wait for games. Games wait for me."
    -- CHUCK NORRIS

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 1,869
    edited June 4
    Iselin said:

    That's you isn't it? LMAO

    There appears to be striking similarities.

    The clip is a good example of how actual risks combined with manic presentation, or interpretation, can cause them to be perceived as greater than doing without a vaccine. While interesting in fiction it can cause great harm in reality by slowing the process of building an effective degree of immunization overall.
    Gdemami
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 3,202
    As a healthcare profession, ill weigh in on some topics.

    There is ample evidence that face masks help in preventing covid19 transmssion.

    Just google "face mask effectiveness with covid + pubmed" 

    With the pubmed, you will get the scientific journals that are published and peer reviewed. 

    They show a benefit to them with cloth masks being least beneficial.

    Someone said if masks worked, covid would have been gone and that is a fallacy of thinking.

    Only real way to see what would have happened without lockdowns and masks is a parallel universe which we cant do, but we can look at a proxy and see that flu and RSV incidences were less than 1% of the usual. Over 100 times reduced. I wonder what intervention could have caused that. 

    The whole goal of masks/lockdowns/social distamce was to mitigate covid19 as that is all you can do. 

    Another person mentioned that covid19 is a mild viral illness, which is partially true, but it is very unusual in many ways. Also, you cant just say 3-5% have severe issues because that is a huge percentage. You think of the mortality of covid19 but dont think of the morbidity of it. It has complications, longhauler symptoms, it causes complications in kids, etc. 

    Essentially, dont focus on just death numbers, there is a lot if morbidity from it. 

    I do agree it will be just like another virus eventually.

    Moreover, experts changed their recs all the time and that is 100% expected in medicine as time goes on you make your best prediction and with more data and research you find out more and can make more accurate recommendations. Some treatments we did 7 years ago we no longer do anymore due to the newer research. It makes it tough being a physician because you are always in school mode to keep up to date. 

    Also, medical experts and scientists around the world helped create the modern world we have now, ill trust the professional scholarly organizations over random internet people or rogue doctors with agendas. As a physician in academic medicine the vast majority of us only care about doing what is best for patients, but there are exceptions. 
    GdemamiKnightFalz
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,332
    edited June 4
    Only real way to see what would have happened without lockdowns and masks is a parallel universe which we cant do, 
    Oh, so to prove masks do not work, you need a parallel universe but somehow, there is ample evidence they do work even without one :D

    With that line of thinking, you can prove about anything...which is just happening.
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,166
    Gdemami said:
    Only real way to see what would have happened without lockdowns and masks is a parallel universe which we cant do, 
    Oh, so to prove masks do not work, you need a parallel universe but somehow, there is ample evidence they do work even without one :D

    With that line of thinking, you can prove about anything...which is just happening.
    To truly have test you'd need to have a super spreaders around people in a variety of scenarios multiple times to see who gets infected and how. 

    That said Fauci's emails are pretty damning that he may have known the cause of the virus and be linked to it. He clearly lied to congress and the American people. He should be prosecuted. Sadly, partisan politics seems to have half the country dumb, deaf and blind to it.
    Gdemami
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,332
    edited June 4
    Vermillion_Raventhal said:
    He clearly lied to congress and the American people. He should be prosecuted. 
    ...why? On the contrary, he only did what you asked him to do.

    He really did not have much choice - just look at your own reaction or the reaction of healthcare professional  above..
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 3,202
    Gdemami said:
    Only real way to see what would have happened without lockdowns and masks is a parallel universe which we cant do, 
    Oh, so to prove masks do not work, you need a parallel universe but somehow, there is ample evidence they do work even without one :D

    With that line of thinking, you can prove about anything...which is just happening.
    Nuances.

    To make that specific claim that was made by the poster i was referring to requires a parallel universe to control for the many confounding factors of real life. The only way to truly know what would have happened if no masks or lockdowns or anything is ultimately with a parallel universe.


    To prove a simple and straightforward claim on there being a benefit for masks impeding covid19 transmission is much easier to do and there is ample evidence for that.  

    You fail to understand the scope of the claim. 

    Here is an example to undestand scope of a claim. It is practically impossible to prove that germany would have won WWII if they didnt open two fronts. 

    Compared to a claim that Hitler's ego and drug use had negative impact on the German war effort.

    Or another claim, the US would have won vietnam under a different president verses the negative long term effects of agent orange use in vietnam. 
    Gdemami
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,166
    Gdemami said:
    Vermillion_Raventhal said:
    He clearly lied to congress and the American people. He should be prosecuted. 
    ...why? On the contrary, he only did what you asked him to do.

    He really did not have much choice - just look at your own reaction or the reaction of healthcare professional  above..
    You mean, I asked him to send tax payer money to a Chinese lab to research gain of function and lie about it to congress?  Totally separate issues from whether mask work or not. 
    Gdemami
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,000
    edited June 4
    The best part is the only agenda that can be spotted is with the insistent use of vaccines without testing any alternatives. Money. 

     There is no harm in testing the efficacy of ivermectin save one. That is if it works the US will technically be required to stop paying for the vaccines. There is absolutely no other risk involved. 

    Ask yourself who the rogue doctors are with agendas since no one except the patients would benefit from it working.
    Cecropia
This discussion has been closed.